Author Topic: IF  (Read 5136 times)

Disciple

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IF
« on: February 20, 2009, 09:50:00 AM »
Pranam,

-If my parents were yogis I would have realized by now.
-If I had only a few vasanas I......
-If I had a living master I......
-If someone had encouraged me in the spiritual path earlier I.....
-If I had a darshan of Bhagvan I.....
-If I had more Bhakti I.....

And so was my past.


-If I will meditate more I will realize sooner.
-If I sleep less I will....
-If I live in solitude I will.....
-If I meet a living Gnani I will.....
-If my kundalini awakens I will....
-If I have constant satsang I will....
-If I live in Thiruvanamalai I will....
-If I discipline myself more I will....

And so will be my future.


Oh yes, what about the present you say. The "Now".
Well what is the present?
Is it the absence of thoughts?
Is it totally being with what one is doing?
Being with the "I" maybe?
Does it all not imply that there is a constant endeavour to achieve something?
Can a means to an end exist in the present?

And so is my present.


Can I ever be free of this cursed mind?
Maybe, If.....................

Subramanian.R

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Re: IF
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2009, 09:58:46 AM »
Dear Disciple,

I like your free verses.  If I could live for ever in NOW, that is
more than sufficient.  The very fact that we are all eager to
know about and read Bhagavan Ramana shows that our Past
had been quite good and our future would also be equally good.

Arunachala Siva. 

Ganesh_b01

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Re: IF
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2009, 02:52:32 PM »
Dear Disciple, I am able to truly understand your position for I find myself stuck in a similar kind of situation. Then a voice raises within me saying I am already realised, whys is there a need to realise something? Just cut the demand to realise something and remain still - just be as I am.

Its grace Disciple, thats what we need, a time will come surely when Bhagwan will take us in himself. the false 'I' or thoughts will get dissolved, flushed. we will be one with Bhagwan. till then we should just relish our love to Bhagwan. just like how a lover longs to be with its loved one.

that longing for bhagwan will keep us going. Love Bhagwan, Here is He, such loving eyes, care, benevolence, soft, nectar, amrutham everything is he. drink that and be intoxicated in Bhagwans love. thats the best resort.

O Bhagwan I love you,

varadharajan

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Re: IF
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2009, 09:25:16 PM »
Dear Subramanianji,

Very true  are your below words

"The very fact that we are all eager to
know about and read Bhagavan Ramana shows that our Past
had been quite good and our future would also be equally good",

however I feel that I am only feeding my ego as my mind thinks that am in pursuit of something unique and only have learned to philosophize till now .....   as Ramana says in Ulladu narpadhu anubandham

"For unlearned folk there is only one family consisting of wife,
children and dependants. But in the minds of those with much
learning there are many families of books, theories and opinions
that are obstacles to yoga"

All I pray to HIM is that even if I have to go through numerous births please remind me that I have to seek the kingdom of happiness which is within me and not elsewhere, as long as I am reminded and make conscious effort throughout my life I will not complain about the miseries with every birth.








Subramanian.R

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Re: IF
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2009, 09:25:33 AM »
Dear  Varadharajan,

You are correct.  Book reading particularly the books on philosophy,
Bhagavan Ramana and various journals and also reading and typing in the Forum are all there.  This intellectual pursuit comes first.  Then, one day we shall know that all this reading is no longer necessary and we shall try to beyond intellectual pursuits.  Bhagavan
Ramana has said in Who am I?:  "Limitless reading is not useful since the Self is within pancha-kosas.  One may have to forget all that
reading."  It is quite true.

Bhagavan Ramana is a rare phenomenon, to whom book reading was not necessary right from the beginning.  He has said that He has read hardly anything, but for some Bible lessons, Periya Puranam and Tayumanavar songs.  But we are all going in the 'normal way' and not through the unique way of Bhagavan Ramana.  Hastamalaka,
the disciple of Sankara is another example like Bhagavan Ramana. But all this depends on one's 'prarabdha'.  Bhagavan Himself has said that perhaps, he had completed all such readings in the previous births.

Arunachala Siva.

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: IF
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 10:47:50 AM »
Dear Subramanian,
                        I feel that intellect is of the head,taught and imposed by the others,borrowed,something alien

to us,not inborn.One has to cultivate intellect.

Inteliigence(consciousnes) is a natural phenomenon like breathing and seeing.It is inborn,our being,our nature.

It is intuitive and nothing to do with the head.That is why Bhagawan gave more importance to heart than head

though in the initial stages of inquiry we start with intellect as you rightly said.
pvssnraju

matthias

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Re: IF
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 11:10:44 AM »
dear all

it is my wish to let you know that the ego is by no means the enemy...we easely adopt a special "perspektive" (I ope you understand my bad bad english) when we do sadhana....we seem to step out of ourselve and start to judge our mind....(we do this with our mind of course)

when we deepen our meditation and seeking, we strenghten the ego alot, but is it really this? I do no think so, I tink all this seeing and feeling that seems to be so loud and chaotic and distressing speaks for our meditation, very very clearly ...we realize what is going on...

I would recommend to meditate upon the breath and similar things to calm the mind first

I found it extremely usefull to create what buddhists call bodhicitta (altruism, the tought of enlightment....or the wish to enlighten others first then yourself, the wish to give yourself totally for others)..this is incredible cleaning practice and creates alot of peace and love....it makes it much easier to switch to the self, no-mind or non-seeking mind streams...do tis trough out the day, before meditation, when you go to sleep or whatever (search for an easy tong-len practice discription, this is a wonderfull meditation to rest your mind...and it also helps to create a positiv mind)

...and also USE this mind please, USE it...dont let is use you....you have alot of power about your mind so please use it....use your thoughts to create a stable mind-stream...use your thoughts to come to rest (say it "I relaxe deeply, I lot my thoughts come and go" "I come to rest" etc...it works, so why dont use your mind?)

think about bhagawan, think about peace, think about meditation (this words do have incredible power) and as long as we are stuck in the mind we should at least create a positive mind stream and see that we can USE it for our sadhana...

"right thought" comes before "transrational"

so we have to think right before we can transcend thinking...right?

Ganesh_b01

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Re: IF
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2009, 11:30:24 AM »
Probably the biggest 'Maya' is to think 'Maya' as 'Maya'

Prostrations to Bhagwan

Subramanian.R

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Re: IF
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2009, 11:54:11 AM »
Dear matthias,

I do not do any breathing exercises.  I only watch the breath and
whenever the mind goes astray, I bring it back by chanting Arunachala Siva.... and thinking about Bhagavan Ramana in the Old
Hall, like the Lion, sitting on a rock and inspecting the other animals,
jackals, deers, bisons and monkeys of the jungle.

Dear Dr. Raju,

All reading is an intellectual process.  The idea is to de-intellecutlize after proper maturity.  Reading and writing were also Sadhanas for some people like Mungala Venkatramaiah, Suri Nagamma, and Devaraja Mudaliar and Muruganar.

Dear Ganesh_b01,

Once you understand the Self within, Maya becomes Suddha Maya.
It is all the play of Uma.

Arunachala Siva.

Ganesh_b01

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Re: IF
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2009, 12:23:13 PM »
and I feel no effort is required to de intellectualize. When one is ready it happens automatically. like a very ripe fruit falls from the tree all by itself, because of its own heaviness (truth) and breaks from bondage with the branch and the tree.

Again, its the false 'I' which categorizes something as intellectual and non intellectual and this happens because the false 'I' compares itself with the outside world. In reality we are all neither of those. neti neti !

If we look closely inside, we will find out that all these disturbances are not really ours but simply incorporated from the society. If we negate all the thoughts then what remains IS.

Prostrations to Bhagwan



matthias

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Re: IF
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2009, 01:14:31 PM »
dear subramanian

one can do whatever one likes to do...but it is good to start with watching the breath.. to calm down

dear ganesh

I understand neti neti also like this: not ONE not TWO

so it is not just the absolute and not just the relative
----------------
who negates the thoughts?

the same who is thinking...so why negating? why not shift to another perspective? and let the thoughts arise and why not use them in a wise manner?

who is disturbed by the patterns of society?

when I think conciously and when I breath conciously then both breathing and thinking does not tie me in bondage...

and it is much easier to simply be this

mind that sees mind and is fullfilled

mind that rests as mind

this mind is enough, we do not need another or a better mind...

when the mind rests as the mind all is in equlibrium and the fight is over (for some time)...but we also need this mind to survive (at least I do, bhagawan was quiet happy without mind eh?) I need this mind to exist, so I welcome him, it is good to see him and it is good to be free of the mind also...who makes the line between the absolute and the relative anyway? I do this, I play the whole game, and I train myself to be at peace with my game..


Ganesh_b01

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Re: IF
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2009, 01:40:24 PM »
Dear matthias

Actually there is nobody or no entity there to negate. What appears to be there is just false 'I' which is nothing but gross thoughts alone. Therefore Thoughts = false 'I' and what this false 'I' wants is nothing but change, existence, continuity. Thats all. It is this false 'I' which has innumerable rebirths to keep its agendy going - continuity, existence. It may appear that by changing perspective and thoughts we can use them wisely. how long? the false 'I' only wants this change alone. thoughts or false 'I' wants only this continuity alone. it wants more rebirth, it wants to be born again and again. Thoughts wants to continue.

There is actually no mind to rest at all. only the false 'I' wants this mind to survive, to continue, to exist permanently. No matter what 2 false 'I's communicate they cannot meet at all. in a glass half filled with water one calls it half full (Brahman) and another calls it half empty (Shunya). thats all is the difference between my meaning to neti neti and you as not One not Two. But we are referring to the same truth ultimately whoever makes the line between the absolute and relative.

Bondage according to me is as long as there is a seer and seen, there is bondage, there is thinker, there is thoughts, there is continuity, there is existence, there will still be innumerable rebirths.

Prostrations to Bhagawan





Ganesh_b01

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Re: IF
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2009, 01:56:00 PM »
By saying that there is no entity to negate anything is like

we can never destroy darkness but it can only be dispelled when the sun rises and darkness ceases to exist.

Bhagwan I love you

vinita

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Re: IF
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2009, 02:28:00 PM »
if "i" were not there, i would be with U............

Ganesh_b01

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Re: IF
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2009, 02:38:39 PM »
Dear Vinita if 'I' were not there, you will not be there.

What is there to be when 'I' has disappeared? only Brahman which will not bother to experience, for it only IS

Prostrations to Bhagawan