Author Topic: "I-I"  (Read 15417 times)

nonduel

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2008, 04:13:03 PM »
Nonduel
but that's just it, it is not a matter of "no" thought but rather the "I" thought, the first thought, there lies at it's feet is who am I.
Mark


Yes Mark.  BEING, IS the "I-thought".  Because to BE when you are a Jnani is to Abide in the SELF. When you are Ajnani, then to BE is to dwelve in the self, which is "at the feet of who am I"

Meditating, is a doing. A meditator and and object. Sri Ramana did teach that it was helpfull for one who find it difficult to self-enquire (self-attention). In short a "tool", a technique to help. But my understanding is that it will help, eventually, for self-attention..."I-though".

Kind of an exercice to develop the capacity for self-attention.

Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

nonduel

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2008, 04:23:28 PM »
Dear non duel and mark, the first thought the "I thought" gives
rise  to a pleothara of other thoughts.  Bhagavan says, "Hold on to
that I thought and see whence it comes.  This is vichara.  If it is
difficult, He prescribed "dhyana" or meditating on "I am Brahman",
which is of course, a thought, but this thought will also eventually
get vanquished and one becomes or be the "Swarupa" or "Brahman" or
"Self".  This is the ultimate "No thought" state.   In sum total, we
have to go round and round to stay where we are!    Arunachala Siva.

Dear Subramaniam,

That is my understanding also. If it is difficult then one can meditate on "I am Brahman". When you say that this thought will eventually get vanquished, I understand that eventually you will stop meditating, and naturally just BE (Vicchara). You will "outgrow" it.

Meditating on "I am Brahman", can also be the "I-thought". When one is absolutely convinced that I AM THAT I AM. Then it is more, as Sri Nisargadatta said, to dwelve in the I AM. Not a "thinking" I am Brahman.

And that is BEING, "I-thought".

Hard to be clear with words.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Subramanian.R

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2008, 04:43:42 PM »
Dear non duel,  You are correct.  The final state is without thinking and
without feeling.  Buddha called it "Maha Sunya".  Since the state of void
would discourage the seekers,  Sankara called it  Ananda - Bliss.  I think some buddhists also use "Maha Karuna (The Great Compassion) along with "Maha Sunya."  in order to encourage the seekers.  Arunachala
Siva.

nonduel

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2008, 04:17:50 PM »
Just one point that wasn't brought up is "diving deep in the self". Sri Ramana often said to dive in like a pearl diver, diving deep. Dear Subramaniam and Mark, could you talk on this.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

mark

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2008, 12:08:26 AM »
Nonduel,
It is as you say, words are unreliable when speaking such matters.
But here is my take
I am the pearl diver(mind) and I am the pearl(self) that I am diving for.
Mark



nonduel

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2008, 03:45:35 AM »
Nonduel,
It is as you say, words are unreliable when speaking such matters.
But here is my take
I am the pearl diver(mind) and I am the pearl(self) that I am diving for.
Mark




Honestly mark..this is very, very well said. Thanks!

Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

mark

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2008, 07:36:53 AM »
Thanks as well, there is such satisfaction in self meeting self, yeah?
Mark

Subramanian.R

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2008, 02:41:53 PM »
Dear mark and non-duel, you have put it nicely.  The pearl diver is
the mind and the pearl is self.  In Who am I?, Bhagavan says that
as a pear driver who dives with a loadstone, one should dive into the
ocean and takes the pearl.  This, He says when a question is asked
about "Vairagya.'  - that is non-attachment.  (Question No. 19).  To
take the 'simile' a little further:-

1. Pearl - Self
2. Pearl-Diver - self or mind
3. Ocean - samsara or bith
4. Load Stone - attachment towards all other things in life.
5. Non attachment - Vairagya -  non attachment towards the
    'attachment'.
 For a pearl diver, when he seizes the pearl, he does not
feel the loadstone or he does not need an attachment as coming out
of the ocean needs no weight behind!
 Arunachala Siva.

Akira

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2010, 04:09:57 PM »
Could someone explain to me why Sri Ramana used "I-I" isntead of just "I"?

I think of two interpreteations.

1. 'naan naan' can be interpreted as a sentence. In English, 'I am I', like 'I am who I am' in Bible, which means the real I, the Self.

2.It implies the current (or the flow) of real I, which springs out from the Heart continuously.


I am not sure if it can be interpreted as a sentence. I want to have native Tamil speakers' opinion.

soham3

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2010, 07:02:36 PM »

 I want to have native Tamil speakers' opinion.


Source for the speakers of all the languages is inside you.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Nagaraj

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2010, 08:16:44 PM »
to me, it simply means - eternity. The reason of having two I's only signifies the eternity, birthless and deathless, the Consciousness.

Where as the single I means ego I, limitedness, non continuity. Naan here is Aham Karam. Jivaatma, I-I... is Paramaatma. Unlimited ness.

Consciousness cannot be measured, hence I feel I is repeated more than once as I-I which signifies infinite.

Salutations to Sri Ramana
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

soham3

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2010, 08:46:45 PM »
Cause or source of ' I-I '  or  infinite I's is single ' I '.  Now-Here is the sub-stratum of Time, Space and Causality.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

soham3

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2010, 09:44:39 PM »
Born of form, rooted in forms,
Living on forms, ever changing its forms.
Itself formless, flitting when questioned,
Such is the ego-ghost.
O Divine, lead me to dizzy heights of sublimity & loftiness

Akira

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2010, 08:11:58 AM »

 I want to have native Tamil speakers' opinion.


Source for the speakers of all the languages is inside you.


You seem to misunderstand what I wrote.
I talk about grammatical structure of the phrase 'naan naan'.

In Tamil,  copular verbs can be omitted, whereas they cannot be omitted in English.
In English 'I  I' cannot be interpreted as a sentence.
To make it as a sentence copular verbs are necessary, like  'I am I'.
Here 'am' cannot be omitted.

In Tamil, copula verbs can be omitted, 
Therefore 'naan naan' can be interpreted as a sentence.
That is what I wrote.

And since I am not a native speaker of Tamil,
I want to ask native speakers if this interpretation is correct or not.

Subramanian.R

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Re: "I-I"
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2010, 11:03:48 AM »
Bhagavan used the words Naan and Thaan for the Jiva and the Atma.  The English
writers used I-I or I am I to indicate the Atma.  The Jiva merges into Atma to become
Atma.  In fact there is no individual soul, Jiva at all.  Some used the words 'i' and I
a la, E.E. Cummings. But this was not taken for use due to confusion.  Bhagavan
Ramana says in Sad Darsanam:   When you dive into the Heart,  and find out where
from the Naan sprouts, then only Thaan will shine.  Thaan simply shines.  It is
a transforming encounter, like the copper becomes gold with alchemists.

Arunachala Siva.