Author Topic: The state of Partial Surrender  (Read 9113 times)

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47716
    • View Profile
The state of Partial Surrender
« on: February 03, 2009, 11:35:48 AM »
Once a Maharani, Saheba spoke in gentle and low voice, but quite audibly. 

"Maharaj-ji, I have the good fortune to see you. My eyes have had the pleasure of seeing you, my ears the pleasure of hearing your voice... I am blessed with everything that a human being would like to have....I do not have the peace of mind. Something prevents it.
Probably my destiny....

Bhagavan Ramana: All right, what have to be said have been said. Well. What is destiny? There is no destiny! Surrender and all will be well. Throw all the responsibility on God. Do not bear the burden yourself. What can destiny do to you then?

Devotee: Surrender is impossible.

Bhagavan Ramana. Yes. Complete surrender is impossible in the beginning. Partial surrender is certainly possible for all. In course of time, that will lead to complete surrender. Well, if surrender is impossible, what can be done?  There is no peace of mind and you are helpless to bring it about. It can be done only by surrender.

Devotee: Partial surrender.. well -- can it undo destiny?

Bhagavan Ramana: Oh, yes, it can.

Devotee: Is not destiny due to past 'karma'?

Bhagavan Ramana: If one surrenders to God, God will take care of it.

Devotee: This being God's dispensation, how does God undo it?

Bhagavan Ramana: Leave that to God. All are in Him only.

(Source: Talks, S.S. Cohen.)

Arunachala Siva.     

matthias

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 09:11:29 PM »
self surrender is sitting as what is, standing as what is, going as what is, talking out from what is....and at all this activites your mind is fixed on mind, relaxed as mind, present as mind

the need for change=suffering
mind beeing happy with mind = peace of mind
 
this is surrender to what is right now, may it be outside or inside...mind is the enemy as long as mind says this is not right, I want change....mind beeing happy as mind = peace of mind and this is self surrender (am I right?)

self surrender, this is to be stabilzed in every situation, always and everywhere then you can say "Iam at home"

before you will cry and scream "Iam the one to come home" or " I want to come home"

and this is mind that wants to change or suffering

vinita

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 08:55:30 AM »
the "problem" lies in partial surrender / lack of surrender.

probably it is identification with the body or/and the mind that does not allow "me" to surrender.

in this state of partial surrender "actions" are important.

when certain things are out of control, i surrender....not otherwise.

does surrender mean surrendering all action??????

then what is the role of karma?

i love the following quote:

"Lord, give me the courage to change what i can, the serenity to accept what i cannot change and the wisdom to know the difference between the two".

so long as we have not reached the dissolution of the "i" ness we keep on striving to reach the self. all the strife will perhaps cease when we get there.

we will not surrender till we get there.

but the funny thing is that we need to surrender to get there!!!!!!!!!?????????????

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47716
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 09:29:06 AM »
Dear Matthias,

Chalanam dhukkam = any movement brings misery.
Nis-chalanam anandam = Non movement brings bliss.

Movement denotes Sakti and Non movement denotes Siva.
Sakti is Maya, the mind, the individual soul.
Siva is the Self.

Dear vinita,

Bhagavan Ramana always insisted on total surrender.  He okayed
partial surrender for a few, who could not even make a beginning.

Arunachala Siva. 

matthias

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 06:32:47 PM »
vinita wrote this amazing sentence...it has one of hte most important teachings inherent in it...

you wrote: "so long as we have not reached the dissolution of the "i" ness we keep on striving to reach the self. all the strife will perhaps cease when we get there."

the thing is that we reach when it ceases....or as you said it ceases when we get there....

the ceasing, the strife is one of the most solid ways to do not rest as what is.....

it is the seeking-mind....the mind that seeks enlightment that strifes for enlightment, this mind can fall down if we are exhausted if me have meditated 10 hours daily and then we just let it all go....becaue we have no more mental energy to give the striving energy....in fact that is the traditional way..

but we should all know that this ceasing is not a big big deal...it is obviouse...it is totally easy to drop the strife for some time (during meditation) or during a walk or whatever (it is possible at any time)

but how to do it?

it is impossible to do it

it is not neccessary to do it

it is allready here

surrender and see

Disciple

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 06:48:09 PM »
Pranam,
Dear Matthias,
You have given a beautiful description of surrender on Feb 3rd without bringing in scriptural jargon. From what you have written it seems a state of total surrender and not partial surrender.

Dear Vinita,
It does seem like a vicious circle but the problem lies in "trying" to surrender. Going along with what the mind prompts or trying to stop it, both activities lands us in trouble. The surrendering in essence is to the "I". So Bhagavan gave us an excellent technique. Whatever the mind throws up, without suppressing or going along with the thought just ask, "to whom does this thought occur to?".
You need not be directly concerned about the right action to be done as long as you are turned inwards towards the "I". Whatever action has to happen will happen and anyway the right action is the one that is done in the state where the mind is (antar-mukha) turned inwards.

Om shri Ramana

matthias

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2009, 06:57:08 PM »
thank you dear disciple....the trap is to get stuck in this I guess....

because if I want to surrender then I have again missed the point....

or lets say if I will sit down this evening to meditate, and I do not simply sit then I may get unhappy beacuese min is not resting as mind

so it is temporarly total surrender...but it can go back to partial or even no surrender at all---

my work now is to sit as sitting as much as possible to really establish and get used to this very easy and natual mind that is happy with mind alone....

wish me luck ;)

matthias

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2009, 09:05:20 PM »
very good post dear skrudai

it captures the whole theme....

and jet there is a switching between this states or maybe there is one., and we look for this that is untouched by all the little switches...between exstasy meditaiton, ordinary thinking, surrender (total or partial etc..)

I wish us all to be succesfull in rediscovering who we are

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47716
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2009, 10:14:56 AM »
Dear everyone,

Ceasing to think and merging with the Self are two simultaneous
happenings.  It is like two sides of the coin, where both the sides
are head and no tail.

Bhagavan Ramana says, total surrender and self enquiry are both
the same. Hence surrender and self enquiry cannot be seen in
isolation. 

He says in Who am I?

Non attachment is where the mind does not go to any object.
Jnanam is one where no object appears.
These two things are said as a pair for one question of Sivaparakasam Pillai.

Again,

Vichara is where you keep the mind in the Self.
Dhyana is where you contemplate that you are the Self and
Satchitananda.

Again these two things are said as a pair for one question of
Sivaprakasam Pillai.     

Again, what is Jnana Dhrishti? - Wisdom Insight?

It is where one keeps the mind Atma Swarupa. It is not knowing what is in some one else's mind, or what his happening in a far
of place or knowing past, present and future.....

Arunachala Siva. 
 

Disciple

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2009, 11:18:50 AM »
Dear matthias,
 ;D You have hit the nail on the head. The first and foremost teaching of Bhagavan is to just be.


Om shri Ramana

Anand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 296
  • Anand
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 08:57:42 PM »
Dear fellow Ramana devotees,

One of the things which makes it difficult to surender is our fear that perhaps in this act ,we are loosing control or other irrational fears like in my case may be we are not doing the best for our near and dear ones.

When we surrender say to Arunachala arent we actually ensuring the best for everyone including our near and dear ones  nay even our enemies.

This thought just occured to me a few days back and I thought I should share.

Thanks,
Anand.
Sundaram Anand

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47716
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2011, 08:58:59 AM »



Dear Anand Sundaram,

We are all experts in partial surrenders, because our ego does not
want to leave its hold so easily, [what you called as 'control'] and
unless ego is surrendered, it is not total surrender or self surrender.

But at some point of time, we will say, "No more burden for me; it is
all yours."  And that point of time, we are "free" because our ego is
surrendered.  Sri Bhagavan describes this in Verse 9 of Sri
Arunachala Padigam.



Arunachala Siva.
 

ramanaduli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2011, 04:07:41 PM »
Dear sirs,


When I was attending one satsangh long time back, we were told, total surrender or Self surrender will take place when we are helpless or desparete state like Drowpathi when her saree was dragged by Dushasan. At first she was holding her body to protect herself and calling all the people who were around the place. When she realised no one could help her, she started calling Krishna to protect her. He took little time. " When she asked Him why He took such a long time, Krishna replied..."
 you were having faith on you, on your husband that they could protect you. Again you were covering with both hands of yours to protect yourself. At last you realised your helpless state and surrendered to me. This story says, we should be in Drowpathi's position to get His grace, throwing everything in helpless state. This is the total surrender.

Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47716
    • View Profile
Re: The state of Partial Surrender
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2011, 05:10:58 PM »



Dear Ramanaduli,

This scene of Draupadi being disrobed by Dushasan and after calling
elders like Bhishma [who were silent], she finally called Sri Krishna.
First she was trying to hold the sari's one end with her hand, and then she raised both her hands and called Sri Krishna.  Leaving both the hands and calling Krishna is the stage of total surrender.  Then Sri Krishna came to her help.  The saris grew in lengths, in different colors, and different textures, long long enough that Dushasan grew tired and fell down!   This is beautifully described in Panchali Sabatham by Subramanya Bharati, the famous poet and patriot.

One another poet sang:

Ottahaikkum atthinathil kaatha dhooram,
Aanaalum nadukkuthaiya selai vyaparam!

Ottai is Dwaram in Sanskrit.  Ottahai is Dwaraka. Sri Krishna was there at that time. Atthinam is Hastinapuram.  The distance is more than thousand miles, kaatha dhooram.

Selai vuparam - brisk sales of saris are taking place!

That is total surrender and God's help is imminent.



Arunachala Siva.