Author Topic: Bhaja Govindam  (Read 21752 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhaja Govindam
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2009, 07:06:06 PM »
Dear Subramanian,

you had mentioned in other topic thus -

The question Who am I?  has no answer.  The answer is
just experience of I-I.  So the question need not be repeated
everytime.  Instead Bhagavan Ramana said:  You restrict
your thought-waves to one thought.  Say Rama, Rama or
Guruvurappa, or Arunachala Siva. 


I said the same thing, there is going to be no experience at all, for you mentioned the answer as just the experience of "I-I" I was never of the opinion of experiencing the Self. In the same topic, I had posted this before yours (above)

Yes, the question of Who am I has no answer because the questioner disappears because its the ego. Here its no more experience because the experiencer ceases to be. How can one experience oneself?

Nagaraj

« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 07:29:48 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhaja Govindam
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2009, 07:23:12 PM »
Dear Udai,

I don't know how the topic deviated. But somewhere I just began questioning the opinion that the Ball and Fire are not one and the same. This was my response -

:) Yes what you say is True, I got what you are conveying. I was thinking beyond even this principle. Its an excellent example you have quoted about the Ball and the fire. The point I was trying to convey can be explained lucidly through the same example. Fire and Ball are inter-related to each other, i.e. one cannot exist without the other. Ball is there because of the existence of the Fire. and because Fire exists in the first place, there is a Ball. the Fire is nothing but thoughts and because of thoughts, Body (Ball) exists. First the Fire Springs and then it gets hold of the ball (Body). What happens in Dreams is this. Where is a Body? its the fire alone thoughts that dreams itself. But in the end I feel, you and I are trying to convey the same thing differently. Fire itself is Ball and Ball itself is Fire - the same "I" since they are inter-related. Body is not different from the "I" hence, I of of the opinion that ultimately, its the "I" alone that possesses everything.

I would put the same point which you made the "I" picks the limitations of body and associates it with Consciousness which is ever Free.  this way -

The I picks up on itself, its own limitations and associates with its own Incomplete Self like the Fire and the Ball. Ball and Fire are one and the same, not different from each other.

And for which your response was -

Dear Nagaraj,
     :) You have got the import right. We are in total agreement there.
Regarding the fire and ball example...What Subramanian has explained is correct. Fire is Consciousness, Ball is the shape or Body. So how has brahman got form ? due to maya, which makes the impossible possible... by associating the Self which is formless with a form.


Anyhow the end is justified by any means.... and thats what counts!

Nagaraj

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhaja Govindam
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2009, 11:20:44 AM »
Dear Nagaraj and srkudai,

ALATA SHANTI - can be understood in two different ways.
And that is how Sankara interprets.

FIRE - Thoughts emanating from the mind.
THE BURNING STICK - Mind.

Another way:

FIRE - Thought emanating from the mind.
THE BURNING STICK - Mind.
The QUENCHED FIRE WHERE STICK ALONE REMAINS - the Self.

The Stick is just is.  It has no form, no mind, no thoughts.

Bhagavan Ramana and earlier Sankara said in Vivekachoodamani, that mano-nasam is moksham.  Staying
in thoughtless state permanently is liberation.

Arunachala Siva. 

ramanaduli

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Re: Bhaja Govindam
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2009, 03:13:55 PM »
Dear Sir,

I am very sorry to say that I have not reached the state. And I am unable to understand the whole thing also though I am reading Bhagavan's books.
It is true that the books or the pravachan cannot bring the self realisation. We need one realised people's blessing or grace. Until that stage the mind
never stops its chating, judging and arguing. Here I want to say, everyday everyone is geting the bliss only in deep sleep. I understand this point clearly.
but when we are in bliss we never talk only after when we wake up with the help of mind, we recollect what happened to us, where we were all the time,
we simply say NAN NANRAGA THUNKINEN. i I slept well. At this time, we need our mind and the past hour's experiences. we recollect and say that peace.
Why we cannot wake up and say we are enjoying the bliss. It is possible during the deep sleep to have the Ananda.


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhaja Govindam
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2009, 03:43:54 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

In deep sleep, that is, Sushupti, the individual is in
Anandamaya Kosa.  He is very close to the Self.  But
this Ananda is like a spoon of milk.  Even this Ananda,
one cannot describe it while in sleep.  The fact that
you slept well is told by you only when you wake up,
where one is back to square 1 with all the anxieties.
The Jeevan Mukta is having Ananda that is like ocean
of milk.  This is beyond comparison.  That is why, it is
called Turiya, the one beyond, wakefulness, dream and
deep sleep states.  This is Sleepless Sleep, as Tayumanavar
has said.  This state of Jeevan Mukta is Sukham, total bliss.
This is not simple happiness, Santosham.

Do not worry about any of these concepts.  The idea that
one does not know some of these things is itself a hurdle.
Do not entertain such ideas.  Bhagavan Ramana says that
when one does not know anything, he should investigate,
"Who is that who says 'I do not know?' "  The Self does not
need anything to know.  It is Knowledge.  It is the mind which
says, I do not know.  Forget about it and try to understand
to the extent possible.  Mere learning, as Bhagavan Ramana
has said, does not guarantee Self Realization.  Our efforts,
Sraddha alone would help.  Suri Nagamma once lamented
that she did not know Tamil and read Bhagavan Ramana's
works in original Tamil.  Bhagavan Ramana said: Why do
you worry for this small thing?  Make some efforts and see.
Suri Nagamma bought a book for primary learning of Tamil
and learnt the reading in seven days! 

Arunachala Siva.   

ramanaduli

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Re: Bhaja Govindam
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2009, 02:01:08 PM »
How we can remain calm when we live with people. When we are asked our opinion to take the decision, we have to tell our own view.Example
searching groom for your own girl, you cannot remain silent. Is it? Those who does not have any responsibilities they can remain silence.
I pray before starting the work, during the work, and in the end also. Most of the times things happen against my wish. Then I remember Bhagavan's words
that whatever should happen it will happen.


Ramanaduli

matthias

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Re: Bhaja Govindam
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2009, 08:31:57 PM »
dear ramanduli

what udai says is true

you see mind is noisy, sometimes you are at peace with this fact, sometimes your mind is noisy and you then also start to fight with the mind that is noisy....both ways are not touching who you are...

remaining silent does not mean beeing without thought, thoughtless does not mean beeing wihtout thought...it simply points to the essence that is beyond thinking...so it is called thoughtless...if what we are looking for is just myself without thinking then it is something new, or something better or something else then what allready is...so this is a missunderstanding

please see:
your body might be hurting, your heart broken, your mind loud and chattering without an end...

all this is not touching who you are..

you might not know what you are....but in fact you cannot know it, nothing of body mind and speech will ever reach or touch it...

and it is always simply there...so the mere search is pointless...but when the search is there..it is also perfect

we cannot say yes or no to what is...we have never the last word, we cannot accept or reject conciousness, it is not possible for body mind an speech to say yes or no to what arises...we can say "no" or "yes" to whatever happens only after it happened...in the moment when it arises "yes" and "no" are totally unmanifested...and without use or reference...

can you say no to the arising of this very moment?

if you see that it is not possible see how silly it is to accept it :)

ramanaduli

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Re: Bhaja Govindam
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2009, 10:35:57 AM »
Dear Udai ji

It lis not easy to catch the mind and kill. It is very difficult task for people like me to become manonasa. So I can follow Annamalai swami's words.
"I am not the mind". For so many birth I have been living with a big terrorist i.e. my mind.  :



Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhaja Govindam
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2009, 11:29:16 AM »
Dear ramanaduli,

What is mind?  Never mind to know what it is.  What is
matter?  It does not matter.  Be as you are.

Arunachala Siva.