Author Topic: Upadesha Saram  (Read 81844 times)


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2008, 01:11:07 PM »
For verse 4 of Upadesa Saram, the apparent meaning is that you
pray to the five elements, sun, moon and individual souls as the
forms of God.  Arthur Osborne has also translated the same way,
and there is no doubt about this.  But the word, 'En' which is used
in Tamil, has got two meanings.  One is 'eight' and the other is
'one who thinks'.  The word 'En' is pronounced as, in computer
language, with 'n' sounding as 'EN'.  This gives the meaning that
whatever form, you think and see before you, you consider it as
the form of God!  Of course, all these forms are on the earth.

Once Bhagavan Ramana and a few others were strolling on the Hills.
One lady was plucking all the bilva leaves on the trees on the way
and also plucking on the flowers that she could see.  Bhagavan
Ramana told her:  "Why you cannot leave these leaves and the flowers
on the trees?  Are they are not more beautiful with the trees?  Can't
you worship them, in the trees?  The Scriputres say that one should
only do pooja with flowers and leaves that have fallen on their own,
even if these are old."  The lady understood but meekly replied:
"Bhagavan!  I having taken a vow to do pooja with a lakh of bilwa
leaves and flowers. That is why...."   Bhagavan Ramana said: "Oh!
You are praying to Siva with a lakh of flowers and leaves?  Why not
you do pooja by pinching your body a lakh of times.  Siva would prefer
it better than doing pooja with leaves and flowers!"

One another story is:  Once there were a lot of bugs on the sofa, but
Bhagavan Ramana was tolerating their bites, without any murmur.
The attendants had been seeing these bugs.  At that time, DDT, was
just then discovered.  When Bhagavan Ramana went out for the stroll,
they sprayed the liquid and killed all the bugs, changed the sheets and
kept the sofa neat.  On return, Bhagavan Ramana smelt the chemical
and expressed with deep anguish:  O someone had been waiting for me
to leave the sofa, and played this dirty trick.

En uru yavaiyum, irai uru yamena,
Enni vazhipadal undhi para,
Isan nal poojanai undhi para!  (Verse 5)

(En - all that you see.  Enni - thinking or considering.)

Arunachala Siva.     


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2008, 01:20:30 PM »
To add to Dr. Raju,

In prayer,  it is better to chant the names and do the japa, within
the mouth, and it is called mantra dhyanam.  Better the low voiced
than the loud.  But the best is meditation within the mind.

Better than hymns of praise,
Is repetition of the name,
Better low-voiced than loud,
But best of all,
Is meditation in the mind.  

Once a queen was doing a lot of mantra japa but the king was
busy with his royal work.  However, he found that his wife is
advancing in spiritual field than he, who is spending his time
in the worldly work of a king.  So, he decided to do mantra japa
at night while sleeping.  Since sounds will distrub his wife, he
wanted to do it within the mouth and in due course, it became
a meditation in mind.  One early morning, the queen found her
husband mumbling something and she asked for the reason.  The
king did not want to reply but on persistence from the wife, he
told the truth.  The queen became very happy and said he can
continue this meditation and she would look after the work relating
to the king.  The king went to the forest and continued his practice.

A story from Yoga Vasishta as told by Bhagavan Ramana.

Arunachala Siva.  


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2008, 01:23:53 PM »
Verse 6:

I forgot the Tamil version.  Here it is:

Vazhutthalil vaikkucha vaikut japathil,
Vizhuppa manathu undhi para,
Vilambum dhyanam idhu undhi para.  (Verse 7)

Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2008, 05:32:39 PM »
Upadesa Saram: verse 7

Meaning:-Like an unbroken flow of oil or a stream of water,continuous meditation is better than which is interrupted.

Comment:- Deliberate meditation is always interruted by thought disturbance due to the influence of innate tendencies.Mind is commonly
interested in indulging in sense enjoyment and such a mind has to be prepared to be one pointed through rituals,Japa,meditation and enquiry.
Then mind is gradually emptied of it's contents and such a mind has the capacity to meditate without interruption and it's attention moves selfwards
without any break.Continuous selfward flow of mind is easy for those who withdraw their attention from  nonself and abide in self and hold on to it without any separative feeling.
Such a mind is called Atmakara or Brahmakara vritti.This is the goal of all spiritual desciplines.


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2008, 10:22:55 AM »
This thyladhara is called the silent meditation, the brahamakara vritti.
Like til oil flowing without noise, without splashing, this flows.

This is very difficult.  Poeple have complained to Bhagavan Ramana that
they are not able to do meditation and office work simultaneously.
When one is attended, the other stops.  Constant practice helps one
to do meditation in work.  There, the mind as oil flowing does the work!
It is brahmakara vritti which is doing the work.

Once Muruganar was asked to do pooja in Mathrubhutesvara Temple.
He had to chant mantras or Tamil song, ring the bell from the left hand
and raise the arti with the right hand.  He just stayed looking at the
Siva Linga, chanting mantras, but the bell could not rung and the
arti could not raise the arti.  When he rang the bell, he had to stop
the other two activities.  When the arti was raised, the remaining two
could not be proceeded with.  Bhagavan Ramana smiled at him and said:
Why are you not able to do all the three?  He then showed how these
should be done!

Again, once Muruganar was with Bhagavan Ramana, while the latter
was boiling a thyla on a big vessel near the cowshed.  The thyla was
prepared for bath or as an oil for massaging.  When the boiling was
over, Bhagavan Ramana put out the fire and asked Muruganar to
transfer the oil from the vessel to smaller bottles with a ladle.  Muruganar
was looking at Bhagavan Ramana and was transferring the oil.  He
kept on pouring the oil into the bottles.  He was doing continually,
that the oil overflowed and fell on the ground!  Without knowing that,
Muruganar was looking at Bhagavan Ramana.  A good amount of oil
was already on the ground. Bhagavan Ramana as usual smiled at him
and said:  What is that you are doing?  The oil is spreading on the floor!

The story does not end here.  Bhagavan Ramana then said:  Take the
oil and apply on your head, do not waste it.  Muruganar was still looking
at Bhagavan Ramana and kept on rubbing the oil from the floor and
applying it on his head.  Soon, he was found that he was applying even
mud on his head.  Again, Bhagavan Ramana said:  You cannot do two
things simultaneously.  Alright, now go and have a bath and remove
both the oil and the mud!   
Verse   7: in Tamil.

Vittu karuthalin* naru nar nei veezchi** pol,
Vittidathu unnale*** undhi para,
visedam**** am munnave undhipara!

(*Vittu karuthalin - intermittant meditation.
** naru nar nei veezchi - the continuous meditation, like the nice smelling oil.
*** vittidathu unnale - continuous meditation. 

**** visedam - Vishesham - better, special.

Arunachala Siva.                                                           


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2008, 12:41:50 PM »
Dear Subramanian,
                         Nice story.As the mental japa progresses japa happens by itself as an undercurrent even when we are involved in work also.
It is not a hindrance to work.The whole thought matter gets concentrated only in that sacred word uttered mentally in japa.


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2008, 01:29:28 PM »
I did the om nama shivaya mantra for two or three days, what happens is that a deep peace is coming over the mind (of course the thougt wander from time to time but it is very easy to get them back to the mantra, I did also during work))....and also from time to times the things you look at are repeating the mantra...a tree is ina  way the mantram, also the identification with the mantra vanishes and it is selfrepeating (all this happened for just some seconds)---

but anyway if you stop the practice, all is it is more or less worthless...

My painting teacher was a disciple of swami muktananda (Siddha yoga) and afterwards traveled india naked with some sadhus for 2 years or something...

he told me lots of crazy stories about this time...and in his book "drinking lightning" art and transformation-- he also discribes the mantra yoga in a similar way, but of course guided by a master and for several month....

he said that after some time the mantra just contuinued without effort, the whole creation vibrated in the sound of the mantra..etc

so similar but of much greater effect..


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2008, 01:46:20 PM »
Dear Matthias,

I am glad to know about japa and the effects and the peace that
passeth understanding.  Please continue to do this.  This is a case
of energy solidifying into matter.  This is not Siddhi.  It is much more
sublime, because you only see the energy getting transformed into
matter and it is not for outsider's wonderment.  Saint Tyagraja who
was a great Rama devotee, is said to have chanted Rama japa,
960 million times and Lord Rama appeared before him?  How come?
The vibrations, which are magnetic energy solidified into a Form, matter.
This is simply Einstein's relativity, and it is true and nothing but true.
Keep it up and make it everyday.  If thoughts disturb you, it does not
matter.  Pursue the mantra.

The Namasivaya becomes a continual monotone behind your activity.  I chant Arunachala Siva, during the day and a  number of times, in bed, before falling asleep.  Whenever I get up after midnight for drinking water,
the mantra continues, from within.  When I get up again in the morning,
it continues.  It is like flow of an oil.

Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2008, 03:37:59 PM »
Dear srkudai,

This was heatedly discussed in the blog of David Godman.  He agreed
that there could be Visions which are different from feverish imaginations.
Sankara "seeing" the Chandala, as Siva in Kasi (the famous Manisha
Panchakam), many Siva saints "seeing" Siva on the bull with Uma,
Tyagaraja "seeing" Sri Rama, after 960 million Rama Japa and Sankarananda Bharati "seeing" Skanda as Ramana, are Visions.  My
grandfather in his death bed,  "saw" Yama sitting on the alarm clock was definitely a feverish imagination.  Kavyakanta Ganapati Sastri had vision of Bhagavan Ramana as Skanda.  But David does not agree that Bhagavan Ramana as the avatara of Kumarila Bhatta and Jnana Sambandha.  He
said that both Sankara and Kumarila Bhatta and Jnana Sambandha lived
as contemporaries, with a few years' of age difference, and hence Bhagavan Ramana could not be an avatara of both Kumarila Bhatta
and Jnana Sambandha.  The ages of these saints have not been conclusively proved, so this is an open debate.  But  I agreed
to both the Visions and the avatara conclusions.  When Sankara
went to Tiruvidaimaruthur, a small town near Swamimalai, the Saiva
Siddhantis said that only Siva is Brahman and the Saiva Siddhanta alone
is the correct philosophy.  Sankara said that he did not have any quarrel
in calling Siva as Brahman, but Advaita is the only Truth.  They all
went to the Siva temple in that town, where Siva is called Madharjuna,
the Lord of the jasmine flowers.  Sankara recited Vivekachoodamani
and finally proclaimed:  Advaitam Paramam Satyam, three times. A hand
appeared from Siva Linga, and said, : Yes. Advaitam  Paramam Satyam.

Even this story for that matter, could be a feverish imgaination.  But
one has to accept both the views.  But Visions and feverish imaginations
both happen to the person concerned , and not to others.  I do not know whether the Saiva Siddhantis could "see" Siva's hand, but they heard the
reverbrations: Advaitam Paramam Satyam.  But again, as in any Indian
classical stories, there is no proof of records fixing the age of such happenings.  That is why, there is such a big fight on Ramar Sethu,
the Adam's Bridge issue.  Who can say that Kalidasa saw Ujjain
Mahakali?  We have only his Shyamala Dhandakam.  Both the views
have to be accepted till one of the two things or both are proved.

Arunachala Siva.   


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2008, 07:51:53 PM »
Dear sir,

They say YET BHAVAM TAT BHAVATHI. Chanting japa helps for the wavering mind lot.It brings Ekargraha chitta. With what kind of bhava if you Repeat the mantra brings lots of miracles. True devotee never asks anything
but the almighty starts playing and shows lots of proves in front of non believer of God. Miracles take place.In fact after the miracles only I started the topic "Miracle". Lots of incidents happened in my life. I do nt know others. Sometimes, while chanting japa itself stops without any intention. I feel blank. no body movement but I aware what is happening around me.
But it does not stay for long time. Now a days I take this like this also mind's play after knowing the pacifying the mind. Still I continue.



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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2008, 02:51:18 PM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 8

Meaning:- Meditation on the identity of Individual (jiva) and the Lord (Eswara),"I am He" is more purifying than meditation which assumes a difference between them.

Comment:- Ego is basically finite consciousness.So ego is an affirmation of separateness.Separative feeling is a mirage created by the ego.

The idea of separative feeling is apparent only in the dimension of time and space.The idea of separativeness veils the truth.

Separative feeling is a hindrance to spiritual emancipation.Ego takes sheltor in the false idea of being the body and it feels separate from

Godliness by contrasting itself with other forms of life.Ego being finite can know only finite things.Ego believe that God and the world to be separate

 from itself.It reduces God to something being finite.Anything that is separate from anything else is limited and thus necessarily finite.

So long as we experience ourselves as a limited individual we feel God is a being who is distinct and separate from us.We limit the infinity of God.

If we know or experience God as anything other than our own essential self,we are not experiencing him "as he really is" but only as mind made

vision (Manomayamam katchi).Though God is visible when we worship him with a separative feeling and there is cleansing and purification of the

mind of it's desire and attachment to worldly pleasures,there is still mistaken experience that we are finite and we are separate from God.

Trotapuri removed this type of mistaken experince of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa by conferring him nondual experience of the self.

The only way to experience the self is by being it.Being as we are is th only means by which we can experince the absolute reality "as it is".

So meditating without separative feeling with strong conviction of "I am He" is superior to meditating with assumption that God is sepate from us.

With this type meditation of identity of individual (jiva) and the Lord (Eswara) there is disintegration of the ego ending in realizing the Truth.



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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2008, 03:13:53 PM »
Meditating on the Godhead, as I am He, is the best meditation,
since it does not seek separateness as Him outside you.  Keeping
Him outside your own Self is duality and is constrained by time
and space.  As Dr. Raju said, it is the mischief of the ego.  Bhagavan
Ramana uses the Sanskrit words, 'Anya bhava' and 'A-nanya bhava'
in the Tamil verse also.

Once Krishnapremi came to see Bhagavan Ramana and Bhagavan
looked at him intently for some minutes, since the former was already
an advanced soul with visions of Krishna.  But Krishnapremi was not
impressed by Bhagavan Ramana's ways of devotion to the Self within
or surrender to the Self within.  He excused saying that he would go
to the Hills and went there and visited some places and started meditating
on Krishna.  Later he returned to the Asram and proudly informed
Bhagavan Ramana that he was playing with Krishna!  Bhagavan Ramana
said:  "Oh, it is good, but why not you see Krishna within you and instead
of playing around with Krishna outside you in the slopes of the Hills?
You, visishtadvatins are telling that Sarvam Vasudevam mayam Jagat,
but you are seeing Krishna only in front of you.  If you contemplate on
him within, then the whole world, including the Hills and the slopes,
birds and squirrels would appear as Vasudeva!"  Krishnapremi agreed
to this and found that the sentence, Sarvam Vasudevam mayam Jagat,
had been understood by him correctly only on that day."  Why Krishna
should be confined to a form, in front of you only?  Why not within
Heart, whereafter, every living and nonliving being would appear as

Later, Krishnapremi went with Bhagavan and others for a stroll on the
Hills.  He went into deep contemplation on Krishna.  Bhagavan Ramana
left him undisturbed and returned to the Asram.  It was soon lunch time.
Krishnapremi was not to be seen.  Bhagavan Ramana sent Visvantha
Swami. The latter went to Krishnapremi and said:  "You are still sitting
here.  Krishna had gone to Brindavan and is waiting for lunch.  Why don't
you rush with me and join him?  Krishnapremi once again understood
the 'ananya bhava' and returned to the Asram to sit with Bhagavan
Ramana for lunch!

Verse 8, in Tamil reads:

Aniya bhavathin Avan Aham aahum,
Ananiya bhavame Undhi Para,
Anaithinum, Uttamam Undhi Para.

(Aniya - Anya.  Avan Aham aahum - Keeping Him within.
Ananiya - Ananya.  Anaithinum Uttamam - The best of all
meditation, contemplation.)     

Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2008, 04:33:13 PM »
Dear Subramanian,
                         Bhagawan gave darshan to Papaji in Punjab but Papaji could not recognise him as Bhagawan.Once Papaji came to Chennai on
official government duty and decided to have darshan of Bhagawan.In Chennai he had  darshan of Lord Rama along with Sitadevi and Lakshmana.
Papaji felt extremely happy.Papaji is a Krishna Bhakta and used to play with him and talk to him whenever he wished.He had  darshan of Bhagawan
but not much impressed by him.So he went to a place near Adi Annamalai temple and meditated on Krishna and krishna appeared before him.
He told the same thing to Bhagawan and Bhagawan asked him saying "Do you want a God who occassionally visits you causing pleasure to you
or do you opt for self which is always with you and is of the nature of blissful self conscious being.Papaji thought for sometime and understood
the import of what Bhagawan is saying and he met Bhagawan in the afternoon when nobody is there and no words passed between them
and Papaji got realisation in few minutes.There after Papaji spread the words of Bhagawan and later he became world famous teacher.
He is the nephew of Swami Ram Thirtha.

2)Dear Srk Udai,
 By nondual experience i mean Advaita Siddhi which implies we are already the God and we are one with him even when we think that we are separate from him.
Some words you should not take them literally but understand the heart and meaning behind them according to the context in which they are used.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 04:41:16 PM by DRPVSSNRAJU »


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2008, 04:51:26 PM »
Dear Dr. Raju,

Yes.  I remember the story of Papaji and I think I wrote it under
Reflections of the Golden Eyes, the series which have now been pruned.
Bhagavan Ramana said the same thing, to all dual experiencers. 

Dear srkudai,

The non-ego experience is the Pure Experience, and Bhagavan
Ramana called it as Wakeless Wakefulness, Dreamless Dream and
Sleepless Sleep and flabbergasted the devotees in the Hall.  All
our other experiences that we have in the world, even though the
Self is always within us, are experiences marred by the ego. 

Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2008, 08:53:25 PM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 9

Meaning:- By the power of meditation,devoid of thoughts one is etablished in true being,and this is supreme devotion.

Comment:- The "I" thought (I-am-the-body-idea) arises from the spiritual heart centre,raises to the brain and identifies with the body

and imagines itself to be the body."I-am-the-body" is the primal imagination that thinks all other thoughts.So if we want to be free of thoughts

we must be free from "I-am-the-body-idea".The "I" thought creates an illusion that there is a mind or individual self which inhabits the body

and directs all thoughts and actions.The "I" thought accomplishes this by identifying itself with all thoughts and perceptions of the mind.

The idea that one is an individual person is generated and sustained by "I" thought and by it's habit of constantly attaching itself to all the

thoughts that arise.If one can break the connection between"I" thought and the thoughts it identifies with them through self-enquiry

the "I"thought is deprived of all the thoughts and perceptions that it normally identifies with,then the "I" thought itself will subside and

finally disappear.This can be done by holding on to "I" thought and excluding all other thoughts.If one can keep attention on the inner feeling of "I"

we can hold on to "I" thought,then it will start to subside into the spiritual heart centre.Through self-enquiry when we free our mind of all thoughts

except the "I" thought,the magnetic power of self pulls the "I" thought back into the heart centre culminating in the collapse of thought process

and eventually the "I" thought is destroyed completely and never raises again.When this happens the idea of individual self is destroyed,only self remains.

This is Bhava sunya sadbhava susthiti.This is supreme devotion says Bhagawan.