Author Topic: Upadesha Saram  (Read 74714 times)

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45737
    • View Profile
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2008, 05:04:10 PM »
Mind and breath spring from the same root, the Sakti within.

Bhagavan Ramana also speaks about this in Who am I?  He says,
both in Jagrat and Samadhi, when the mind is absorbed in its
Source, the breath is absorbed. But in Sushupti, deep sleep, even
though the mind is absorbed, the breath does not stop.  Why?
Because of Isvara Sakti, in order that the onlookers do not mistake
a sleeping person as dead, the breath continues.  It also happens
at the time of fainting, that is the mind does not function but the
breath continues.

Similarly even while the mind is concentrating on a particular subject
or venture, the breath should continue.  When pearl diver sinks into
the ocean, for pearls, he has to continue the breath.  When astronauts
go to the Everest or the moon, where there is no oxygen, they have to
take oxygen support.

In all these ventures, again the mind is only temporarily controlled.
It is not annihilated. All these efforts will have a temporary suspension
of the mental faculty, but the mind still remains.  Bhagavan Ramana
therefore said, persons like Kavyakanta Sastri and Natesa Mudaliar,
(later Swami Natanananda) not to pursue breath-control methods
but follow self enquiry, where one has to merely watch the inhaling
and exhaling breath.

Verse 12 in Tamil:

ULamum Uyirum unarvum seyalum,
ULavang kilai irandu Undhipara,
Onru avtarin moolam Undhipara!

Mind and breath, as thought and action,
Fork out like two branches,
But both spring from a single root.

(ULam - the mind; Uyiru - breath.  Like Sanskrit Prana, Uyir denotes
both breath and life.)

Arunachala Siva.

DRPVSSNRAJU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
    • View Profile
    • BE AS YOU ARE
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2008, 06:56:03 PM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 12

Meaning:- Mind and breath manifesting in thought and action,branch out from a common source, Atma Sakti (Aham Spurana).

Comment:- The mind is the conscious aspect,the power of objective knowing,thinking (Jnana Sakti) where as breath or life force (Prana)

is the power of doing or action (kriya sakti).But the original power Aham Sphurana is like a trunk of a tree having mind and prana as

two branches.So mind and prana are interrelated.The imaginary power of the mind comes to a stand still if breath is controlled.Likewise

if mind stops imagining completely whatever is the reason breath comes to a standstill.Prana supplies energy to mind for thinking and to the body

for it's maintenance.When mind is strayed if we control the breath, immediately it feels suffocated,stops imagining and comes back to the present.

If due to self-enquiry thought process collapses in the spiritual heart the breath is controlled.The existence of the mind depends upon

it's identity with something gross.In self-enquiry because we pay our entire attention on the source of mind identity with nonself including

all adjuncts is nullified,so attraction to nonself does not exist and in such a state of being there is direct experience of nonexistence of the mind

(naiva manasam).The ego,the thinker appears as a real entity because of our continuous identity with the nonself.This identity is broken

when we pay attention only to "I" thought excluding all other thoughts.Then "I" thought is deprived of it's identity with all other thoughts
 
and perceptions it normally identifies with.Then the "I" thought start to subside in the spiritual heart and gets dissolved in it.
pvssnraju

DRPVSSNRAJU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
    • View Profile
    • BE AS YOU ARE
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2008, 08:37:39 PM »
Upadea Saram: Verse 13

Meaning:- Absorption or laya,destruction or nasa are the two kinds of mind control.When merely absorbed, it emerges again,but not when it is destroyed.

Comment:-  Subsidence of mind is two kinds.Abeyance (laya) and destruction (nasa).That which is in abeyance will rise but if mind dies it will not

rise.The subsidence of mind is gained by breath restraint and in states like sleep,death,swoon,coma is temporary and is thus manolaya or abeyance

of the mind.Since happiness is experienced only when the mind subsides and since rising of the mind is misery itself,if we are to enjoy happiness

forever it is necessary that the mind is destroyed permanently.Such permanent destruction of the mind which is the true goal of all spiritual

disciplines is called manonasa.The reason why breath control cannot bring about manonasa is breath control does not destroy the tendencies.

For making the mind subside permanently there is no adequate means other than self-enquiry.If made to subside by other means,the mind

will remain as if subsided but will definitely rise again.Where as in manonasa (destruction of the mind) the "I" thought is pulled into the spiritual

heart centre which eventually destroys it so completely that it never rises again.The concept of individual self is destroyed forever,only self remains.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45737
    • View Profile
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #78 on: November 30, 2008, 10:18:31 AM »
Bhagavan Ramana has always been cautioning the devotees,
agains this 'layam', be it from breath-control practices, or simply
enjoying the happy experiences, arising out of Atma Jnana, without seeking further for whom these 'layam' or happy experiences.  There
was one lady by name Sundarambal.  She used to practice this by
concentrating on the 'sushumna' and with the result, she was always
in a state of 'stupor' without being able to do any activity.  She
had a long matted lock and so she was called Jatini Sundarambal.  She
had an understanding husband, who was living away from her, but was
sending money every month.  He would merely write, Arunachalesvara!
Kapaleesa! in the MO form!  Bhagavan Ramana advised her to stop
this business and do self enquiry.  Kunjuswami used to take her around
the Hills, so that she might have some activity, without being in a
state of stupor.  After some time, she became alright and pursued
Atma Vichara.  So also a boy called Vasu, from Kerala, known to
Kunjuswami, for whom Bhagavan Ramana advised the same way!

Verse 13 Tamil:

Layamum Nasamum irandam odukka
LayithuLathezhum Undhipara!
Ezh thuru maaindhadhe Undhipara!

Osborne's translation:

Absoption is of two sorts,
Submergence and destruction,
Mind submerged rises again,
Dead, it revives no more!

Arunachala Siva.

DRPVSSNRAJU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
    • View Profile
    • BE AS YOU ARE
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #79 on: November 30, 2008, 03:55:05 PM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 14

Meaning:- When the mind has been suspended by breath restraint,it may then be annihilated by single minded attention(Eka chintana) to the self.

Comment:- When one makes the mind which has subsided by restraining the breath, go on the path of knowing i.e self-enquiry and

becoming one with the self and it's form will die.Self-enquiry is not only the path of knowing and becoming the self but is also one

and the only path which will destroy the mind.When mind activity is ceased and mind becomes one pointed due to breath restraint,

it should keenly scrutinise and know pure conscious being in the heart which is adjunctless and thought excluding.So one should make
 
use of that peaceful state gained by Pranayama by turning one's attention to scrutinise and know the real import of "I",then mind will die,

for it will be known that there is no such thing as mind at all.In self-enquiry there is annihilation of tendencies leading to nomind (amanaska)

state.The mind rests in pure self conscious being without straying because the tendencies are annihilated.

pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45737
    • View Profile
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #80 on: November 30, 2008, 05:10:40 PM »
Bhagavan Ramana has always advised His devotees, to acquire
Eka Chintana.  He even said that breath-control, Pranayama, is
not necessary and mere 'watching of the breathing' is adequate.
Bhagavan Ramana said: "Catch one thought and that will lead you
to self enquiry and no-thought state."  He has advised to chant
Siva, Siva, to Annamalai Swami.  He has advised Gambhiram Seshayyar,
to do Rama Japa.  When a person has acquired that continuous
practice of mantra japa, He said:  "Go to the root.  Ask who is chanting
this mantra?  Ask where the mantras at the end become quiscent."
He said Kavyakanta Ganapati Sastri to find out the leena-sthana of
mantras.  He even said: "Chanting within I, I, I or Subramanian,
Subramanian, Subramanian, .... will take you there, when the mantra
curls up into its Source.

Verse 14, in Tamil:

Odukka VaLiyai Odungum ULathai,
Vidukka Or Vazhi Undhipara,
Veeyum* adhan uru Undhipara!

(*Veeyum - it will die or become quiscent.)

Breath-controlled, and thought restrained,
The mind turned one-way inward,
Fades and dies.

(Osborne's translation)

Arunachala Siva.       

DRPVSSNRAJU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
    • View Profile
    • BE AS YOU ARE
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2008, 03:32:47 PM »
Dear Srk Udai,
                   There is a state of mind in which there is only the perception of "what is" without naming it.This happens in Amanaska sthiti
in which mind is filled only with awareness without any noise of the past.Some of us may not have experienced such a state even
once but we should not think such a state is not there just because we have not experienced it.Pure Ahamkara Vritti is there even
in Jnanis (suddha manas) because,idamkara vritti is not possible without Ahamkara vritti.This is my opinion and i do not want to
argue further because somethings we know only by experiencing them.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45737
    • View Profile
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #82 on: December 01, 2008, 05:22:15 PM »
Dear srkudai and Dr. Raju,

We have already agreed upon not having any quarrels and arguments,
in Upadesa Saram posts.

There are multitudinous aham kara vrittis, for most of us in our lives,
and so Bhagavan Ramana has prescribed one Aham kara vritti, like
I, I, I, or Siva Siva Siva or Rama Rama Rama.  This kills all the other
aham kara vrttis and after realization, what one will have is Pure
Idam Kara Vritti through Pure Aham Kara Vritti.

Arunachala Siva. 

DRPVSSNRAJU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
    • View Profile
    • BE AS YOU ARE
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2008, 09:03:14 AM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 15

Meaning:- What action remains to be done by that great yogi whose mind has been extinguished and who rests in his own true

and transcend state of being?

Comment:- For the one whose mind is destroyed and who abides in the self has no doership,no desires,no tendencies there is not

action left for him to do.He no longer mistakes himself to be  the body-mind complex,so does not associates himself with the fruit of action,free of all tendencies,self absorbed.

One, whose mind is destroyed is greatest in the existence.His mind becomes one with the self and always enjoys the bliss of self

without any interruption.Just the presence of their silent being  transforms the whole world.The original nature of the mind is

consciousness but when it associates with the adjuncts, volition (desire,will,sankalpa) and doubt(vikalpa) arise in it.

When the mind dissociates from the adjuncts there is destruction of sankalpa (desire) vikalpa (doubt) vritti (modification of the mind) is destroyed.

In religious jargon it is called manonasa or destruction of the mind.Such a great one (utkrusta) enjoys the bliss of self which is revealed

spontaneously because of the destruction of the concept of individual self and there is no single thing exists for him to do.

He does not know any other thing than self.Whatever action he may appear to do exist only in the outlook who mistake him

to be the body which does the action.

So from 11th to 15th verse Bhagawan dealt in detail about Raja yoga,so  he alloted first fifteen verses on how karma,Bhakti,Raja yoga

helps in preparing an aspirant for self-enquiry and in the rest of the verses Bhagawan taught the path of self-enquiry i.e Jnana Marga.(Path of knowledge)
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45737
    • View Profile
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #84 on: December 02, 2008, 10:50:57 AM »
The Verse 15 speaks about the destruction of the mind.  Here,
Bhagavan Ramana uses the word 'Yogi".  As Dr. Raju said, it
may mean Raja Yogi and also a Jnana Yogi, who has left doership
and desireship.  He says that such a Yogi has no work for himself.
If he does anything, it is for keeping the body alive, like eating and
excreting, bathing and sleeping, or to show the path to others.
In every action of his there is lesson for the seekers.  It need not
always be in the form of upadesa, but even his daily duties will
teach lessons to seekers.

For example, Bhagavan Ramana used to pick mustard seeds that
have fallen on the floor in the kitchen, and say that every seed is
Arunachala's gift to the devotees and we should not waste them!
His kitchen work itself was a lesson to not only kitchen assistants
but also to others.  Similarly, He never wasted anything in the meal.
He said that one should ask just enough food, but having taken he
should not waste even a single grain or vegetable piece!  He used
to wake up very early and take bath.  These are all teachings. He
used to take just one spoon of oil, place it on the head and with water,
he used to rub the head and take the remnant to the body and the
whole body would become shining with that one spoon of oil.  Much
before these days of walking, yoga exercises and aerobics,  He
taught the lesson of walking on the Hills!   Walking around the Hills
is not only an exercise but also you breathe the herbal airs which
are good for health!

Verse 15 in Tamil.

Manam uru maya Mei mannuma yogi,
Thanakkor Seyal ilai Undhipara,
Than iyal sardhanan Undhipara!

(Mei - Self;  Seyal - action; Than iyal - one's natural state of
being in the Self.)

Mind extinct, the mighty seer,
Returns to his own natural Being,
And has no action to perform.
                     - Osborne's Translation.

Arunachala Siva.       

DRPVSSNRAJU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
    • View Profile
    • BE AS YOU ARE
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2008, 05:14:20 PM »
Upadesa Saram: verse 16

Having prepared the mind of the aspirant by directing the awareness of the mind and actions of the body selfwards through karma,

Bhakti,Yoga which involve the dynamic aspect of the self i.e body-mind complex,now it is the right time to hold on to conscious aspect

of the self.So Bhagawan teaches method of self-enquiry from 16th verse to 19th verse.

Meaning:- If one's attention is turned away from external objects of sense perception and focussed on the light of self,that is the true vision of reality.
(Atmanusandhana of mind).

Comment:- Wise people observe the phenomenal reality "as it is" and recognise without doubt that any attempt in indulging in the

affairs of nonself definitely leads to misery.Lord Krishna in Bhagavad Gita mentioned that world is a temple of misery (Dhukhalaya).

If we enter into that temple misery will be conferred on us.The way of life of humanity is miserable because majority indulge in nonself

and they feel individual existence is a reality and they are confident that anything can be achived by their own effot.They are not aware

that one higher power is responsible for the affairs of the world and events are happening through them but not because of them.

If one realises this,naturally he loses interest in nonself and his attention falls back on itself which amounts to seeing it's own nature

of consciousness.Thus mind knowing that it's nature is awareness only,gives up object knowing attitude,this alone is seeing of the reality (Tattwa darsanam).
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45737
    • View Profile
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #86 on: December 03, 2008, 10:49:16 AM »
During Bhagavan Ramana's staying in the Old Hall, that is upto
1944 or so, there were many devotees who were indulging in
circumambultation of not only the Hills but also the Old Hall!
One Lakshmamma started this practice and soon many started
going round and round the Old Hall, where Bhagavan Ramana was
seated!  Added to this, as if one prostration was not sufficient, many
devotees were making hundreds of prostrations, (namaskarams)
to Bhagavan Ramana.  They were also making namaskarams at the
every corner of four quarters of the Old Hall.  Even though these
things did not in any way, distrub Bhagavan Ramana, the other
devotees were disturbed.  Because, their figures were appearing
through windows and made them to see whether any one is coming
into the Hall.  Continuous prostrations in front of Bhagavan Ramana
also disturbed their silent meditation or in between their dialogue
with Bhagavan Ramana.  Bhagavan Ramana then told these devotees
that true circumambulation, as told in Ribhu Gita, is going round the
Self within.  True namaskaram is the prostration to the Self within!.

There were certain other devotees, who were going to the Western
devotees and 'advising' them, not to stretch their legs, not to sit
on a chair, not to lean on the side-walls etc., etc.,  Bhagavan Ramana
always criticized these over enthusiastic devotees, by telling them,
"Do the work, for which you have come for!"

Verse 16 in Tamil:

VeLi vitayangalai Vittu manam than,
OLi yuru orthale Undhipara,
Unmai Unarchiyam Undhipara!

(VeLi - outside; vitayangal - vishays;
OLi yuru - the Form of Effulgence, the Self within;
Unami unarchi - the True Knowledge)

It is true Wisdom,
For the mind to turn away
From outer objects and behold
Its own Effulgent Form.
     
- Osborne's Translation.

Arunachala Siva.   

DRPVSSNRAJU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
    • View Profile
    • BE AS YOU ARE
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2008, 11:18:00 AM »
Dear all,
                   The "I" thought superimposes afflictions and pleasures of body and mind on it and says,i am suffering from a disease
instead of saying my body is suffering from disease,and at the mental level it says i am miserable or happy instead of saying my mind
feels miserable or happy.This type of language continues as long as the habit of identity to body-mind complex continues.
As Udai rightly pointed out it is the silent awareness that reads,breaths,listens etc but the "I" thought comes in between the body
and self and claims the doership of the activities."I" thought is an altered state of consciousness but it has within it the essential
pure consciousness in it's core.So instead of seeking enlightenment it if we focus our attention on "I" thought,the real "I" reveals itself
which is behind the "I" thought and is the basis of "I' thought.This is real self-enquiry.
pvssnraju

DRPVSSNRAJU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
    • View Profile
    • BE AS YOU ARE
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2008, 01:03:28 PM »
Dear Srk Udai,
                   You are the right person to do transliteration of verses into English and i pointed out this even before begining of commentary.
If you want some time to do it, i will wait till you do that.I feel that you can transliterate the remaining verses in a single day and post it.
We can comment on the verses according to our convenience.I also have the same idea of keeping these posts for referance.I expect one
favor from you because i have no knowledge in arranging these posts in an order.Kindly give transliteration of each verse followed by your comment
on each verse,likewise Subramanian"s,and mine.So i expect 3 files containing the commentaries by each one of us and post it to my personal id.
The commentaries are done from three different point of views each having it's own merit.So i request you to continue transliteration
and commentary and do me the favor by sending three commentaries in three different files.There is no hurry,we will wait for you.
pvssnraju

DRPVSSNRAJU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
    • View Profile
    • BE AS YOU ARE
Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2008, 09:52:20 PM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 17

Meaning:- Again, if one persists in enquiring,"what is this mind of mine" it will be found that there is no such thing as "mind".This is the direct path.

Comment:- In this verse Bhagawan shows the way how the mind is to know it's own form of light.When we srutinise the mind i.e. personality

it will be found that there is no such thing as ego or personality.Enquiry is not a thought but paying attention to it.There is no ego apart from the idea

of it.Ego is an aberration on the pure self born out of body identity.The conscious aspect of the ego arises from the self and infact the self

but forgetful of it's nature because of it's association with the adjuncts and it believes in the lie of it's separate independent existence.When we

focus our attention on the souce of the ego it's lie of it's independent existence is revealed and as we practice like this with such an intensity as

 drowning man struggles for air, the lie is extinguished forever and the concept of individual self is annihilated and only self remains.

What was appearing as the mind is nothing but self,the Pure consciousness "I am".Existence consciousness is the sole reality of the unreal mind.

In self-enquiry Pure consciousness remains,only limitations become extinct.
pvssnraju