Author Topic: Upadesha Saram  (Read 76325 times)

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #105 on: December 23, 2008, 10:40:53 AM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 18

Meaning:- The mind is only multitude of thoughts.Of all these thoughts,the "I"thought,the feeling of

"I-am-the-body" is the root.Therefore what is called mind is the root thought "I".

Comment:- "I" thought is one thread on which all other thoughts are strung and since no other thought can

exist in it's absence,therefore what is commonly called mind is the root thought "I-am-yhe-body" idea.

"I"thought is the mixed feeling of "I-am-the-body".

Real "I" is the Pure existence "I am".

The "I" thought is the knowing subject,where as all other thoughts are objects known by it.

Hence, though other thoughts come and go,"I" thought always remains as the background upon which

they depend and when "I" thought subsides,all other thoughts must subside along with it.

Thus "I" thought is the one and only characterestic of the mind.Therefore ultimate truth about the mind

can be discovered only when one scrutises the truth of the first person "I" thought.
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #106 on: December 23, 2008, 11:16:26 AM »
The Upadesa Saram, Tamil, called Upadesa Undiyar has got these
verses in the original.

Verse 21:

Nan en chor poulamadhu naLume,
Nan atra thookathum Undhipara,
Namadhu inmai neekathal Undhipara!

Osborne's translation is as under:

Of the term, 'I' the permanent import is
That. For even in deep sleep,
Where we have no sense of 'I'
We do not cease to be.

Bhagavan Ramana on numerous occasions, have given this
example of deep sleep, where there is no I-sense, to the
devotees.  In Who am I? also, He tells Sivaparakasam Pillai,
that the permanent import of I-I is there even during sleep,
samadhi and fainting.  This verse is important in the sense that
this describes the Mahavakya, Tat Tvam Asi. Thou Art That.
In the sushupti state, where there are no five conative organs,
where there are no cognative organs, where there is no mind,
where the prana alone is allowed to continue by God's rule,
where there are no vasanas, That which is You, is there.  In fact,
Tirvembavai, Verse 8 about which I have posted today, speaks
of Vishnu's Yoga Nidra, as meditation on Siva.  We are all Siva, and
we are meditating on Siva in our deep sleep.  When some Western
devotee asked Bhagavan Ramana:  "Why then we cannot go on
sleeping, to arrest the mental activities and thus pursue self enquiry?",
Bhagavan Ramana said: "That is not possible.  More than the body,
it is the mind that needs some sleep.  When that rest is taken, the
mind would start its monkey business and you will wake up!"

The sleep is a state of 'no activity'.  But it is only a state of suspended
animation of mind.  For example, even in a house, where someone
has died and the corpse is yet to be burnt, the relatives will cry till
late midnight and then go to sleep to have the Ananda of Self! 
Again, after a few hours, the monkey of the mind would first wake
up, and then the body.  They will all start crying with hoarse voices!

 
Arunachala Siva.       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #107 on: December 23, 2008, 11:28:56 AM »
Upadesa Saram, Verse 22 reads as under in Tamil.

Udal Porui ULLam Uyiur IruL ellam,
Sadam ach chathanthal Undhi para,
Sattana Nan all Undhipara!

Udal - Body; Pori - five senses; ULLam - mind;
Uyiur - life force, breath; Irul - darkness, sleep;
Sadam - Jadam, insentient; acchath -Asat - unreal;
Sat - Sat.

Osborne's translation reads as under:

Body, senses, mind, breath, sleep --
All insentient and unreal ---
Cannot be 'I'
'I' who am the Real.

Here Bhagavan Ramana speaks about the Mahavakya,
I am Brahman, I am Real. The body etc., are not the real 'I'.
This has also been explained to Sivaprakasam Pillai in Who am I?
Bhagavan Ramana has told him that all these are unreal and even
the ajnana, the vasanas are also unreal.  In the previous post,
I wrote about the Western devotee who asked why not a person
be always in sleep to avoid the mind.  Here, Bhagavan Ramana
says that  even sleep or darkenss is unreal.  Hence in deep sleep,
which is the unreal state, even though there is Real, you cannot find
It, unless the vasanas go.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #108 on: December 23, 2008, 11:38:41 AM »
Dear srkudai,

In Tamil, Bhagavan Ramana used two words, "Naan" to denote
the individual soul, the mind and the ego.  He used the word
'Thaan" to denote the Real, Brahman, the Self.  These two words
are common in Tamil scriptures.  Bhagavan Ramana used the same
two words in Who am I? also.  He did not have the idea of two-bird
simile of Vedanta while saying this.  But English devotees like Brunton
and Osborne, in order to distinguish the Self and the non-Self used
I-I and I.  Some other Western devotees tried, 'I' and 'i'.  But the
first method and usage prevailed!  We may possibly understand this
as Atman and Brahman, the words used by English commentators of
Upanishads like Christopher Ingelwood and David Frawley.  No
Tamil commentator excepting Sri Sadhu Om, brings about the two-
bird simile.  Even Sri Sadhu Om, mentions it as an auxillary example.

Arunachala Siva.       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #109 on: December 23, 2008, 11:53:37 AM »
Dear srkudai,

You are correct.  However, when I asked about this to some Asram
devotee, during one of my visits, he said:  Bhagavan Ramana did not
use it or mention about it, PERHAPS, because it implies duality.  That
Asram friend may also be correct.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #110 on: December 23, 2008, 12:14:07 PM »
The Upadesa Saram, verse 23 reads as under in Tamil.  

ULLAdu unara unarvu verinimayin
ULLadu Unarvu ahum Undhiara,
Unarve Naamay uLam Undhipara.

ULLAdu- That, the Self, Brahman.
Unarvu - feeling, knowledge, awareness, conviction.
Unarvu - Awareness.

Osborne's translation is as under:

For knowing That which Is,
There is no other knower,
Hence Being is Awareness.
And we are all Awareness.

After speaking about the Reality aspect, Sat in Verses 20-22,
Bhagavan Ramana tells here about the Knowledge aspect, the
Awareness, Chit.   In Sat-Chit-Ananda,  Chit is described here.
Who are we?  We are Real and we are Awareness. Once the
enqurier knows that there is nothing more to know, and that
there is no other knower, he becomes Awareness.

Once Kunju Swami told Bhagavan Ramana that he wanted to read
16 books which are taught in Maths as Siddhanta/Vedanta scriptures.
He wanted to go to Kovilur Math and sought permission for three months stay there in Kovilur. Bhagavan Ramana asked him, what he wanted to
know from these sixteen books.  Kunju Swami answered that he
wanted to 'know' about Brahman.  Bhagavan Ramana smilingly said
that if he knew his Self, there was not thing more to know!

All these sixteen books are in Tamil.  Some of these are:

1. Swarupa Saram.
2. Vedanta Choodamani. (not Sankara's)
3. Ozhivil Odukkam.
4. Thuhalaru Bodham.
5. Bhagavad Gita Sara Thaalattu.
6. Sivajnana Bodham.
7. Kaivyalya Navaneetam.
8. Siddhar Jnana Kovai.
9. Guru Gitai.
10.Tirumantiram

It is amazing to see that David Godman quotes from these books,
while commenting on Guru Vachaka Kovai!

Arunachala Siva.

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #111 on: December 23, 2008, 01:05:28 PM »
Dear Srk Udai,
                   The "I" thought is a superimposition on real "I'.The core of "I" thought is pure consciousness.
So when we scrutinise the "I" thought and if one can keep attention on the inner feeling of "I',then the
"I" thought start to subside into the heart centre i.e pure consciousness.This can be done by holding on to
inner feeling of "I am" excluding all other thoughts."I" thought is an altered state of consciousness in which
consciousness is associated with adjucts and there arises a compound consciousness which is basically
object knowing consciousness where as basic form of consciousness is exclusive self consciousness (Real "I",thaan,"I""I")
in which awareness is aware of itself only,while consciousness associated with adjuncts is aware of objects.(False "I",nan,)
But in both the cases that which cognises is only Pure consciousness.There are no two separate conscious entities,
one for knowing objective reality and another for knowing itself.Our being itself is self conscious,self effulgence.
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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #112 on: December 23, 2008, 01:20:17 PM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 19

Meaning:- When one scrutinizes with in thus, "what is the rising place of "I"?,the "I" thought will subside(die).
This is self-enquiry (Jnana Vichara).

Comment:- When one inwardly scrutinizes root thought,the feeling "I-am-the-body" in order to find out from where

it arises,it will subside and disappear because,like the snake in the rope it has no reality of it's own and hence

appear to exist only when it is not keenly scrutinized.This vigilant inward scrutiny of "I" thought,alone is

Jnana Vichara,the enquiry which leads to true self knowledge.
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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #113 on: December 23, 2008, 01:40:54 PM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 20

Meaning:- In the place where "I" i.e the mind or ego merges,the one (Existence consciousness,basic form of consciousness) appears spontaneously as "I" "I" or "I am I".That itself is the whole (Poorna).

Comment:- When the mind or the ego,the feeling of "I am this" or "I am that" subsides and merges in it's source,

the real self,the one true existence consciousness shines forth spontaneously as "I" "I" or " I am I"(Thaan),

devoid of all superimposed adjuncts such as "this" or "that".This adjunctless "I" "I" is the self,the absolute reality,

the whole (Poorna).Bhagawan says that as a result of such self-enquiry,the reality will shine forth spontaneously

as "I" "I" or "I am I".

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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #114 on: December 23, 2008, 04:32:00 PM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 21

Meaning:- The "I" "I",the whole is always the import of word "I" because we exist even deep sleep ,which is devoid
of "I" thought i.e mind.

Since we do not become nonexistent even in deep sleep,where the mind in the form of "I-am-the-body"

does not exist and since we are conscious of our existence in deep as "I am",that one reality which shines forth

as "I" "I" or "I am I" when the mind merges in it's source and dies, is always in all the three states of waking,

dreaming,deep sleep and in all three times i.e the past,present and the future~the true import of word "I".

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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #115 on: December 23, 2008, 07:33:12 PM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 22

Meaning:- Since the body,mind,intellect,breath and darkness of ignorance which remains in deep sleep are all

insentient (Jada) and unreal (Asat),they are not "I" which is the reality.

Comment:- Bhagawan is negating the five sheaths (Pancha kosas) which apparently cover the consciousness

because they are insentient and unreal,because they do not posess inherent consciousness or existence of their own.

Hence they cannot be the "I",the reality which is both self existing and self shining.The feeling of "I" is mixed up with

adjuncts,so Bhagawan is negating the adjuncts to show the true import of "I" which is the reality.

The five sheaths are:- 1) Physical body~Annamaya kosa.
                               2) Breath or life force~Pranamaya kosa.
                               3) The mind~Manomaya kosa.
                               4) The intellect~Vijnanamaya kosa.
                               5) The darkness of ignorance~Anandamaya kosa which is experienced in deep sleep
                                    due to disappearence of other four sheaths.

By means of sequence of ideas presented in verses 16-22 Bhagawan reveals us the true and practical import of

scriptural teaching "neti,neti"(not this,not this).Traditionally neti,neti is done as an intellectual method.

Einstein says that a problem cannot be solved on the same level of consciousness that gave rise to the problem

which means the problem of self-ignorance cannot be solved by effort of it's progeny of five sheaths.   

Bhagawan reveals that neti,neti is not intended to denote a method of practice but only indicates a final

state of experience which is different in the level and quality of consciousness compared to the present

altered state of consciousness with the association of adjuncts.

In verses 16-19 Bhagawan teaches us the method of practicing self-enquiry.

In the verse 20 he teaches us that as a result of such practice the reality will shine forth spontaneously

as "I""I" or " I am I".

In the verse 21 he declares that the reality which thus shines forth as "I" "I" is always the true import of "I".

And finally in verse 22 he concludes by saying that since the five sheaths are insentient and unreal,they

cannot be "I",the reality whose nature is existence consciousness.

So true knowledge that the five sheaths are not "I" is an experience which can be attained only by knowing the

real nature of "I" through practice of self-enquiry.

The reason why scriptures begin by teaching that five sheaths are not "I",is that in order to practice self-enquiry

it is useful for an aspirant to understand intellectually that the "I" which is to be attended to is not the body or

any of other adjuncts which are now felt by him to be mixed with the feeling of "I".But since Bhagawan does not

want us to fall prey to the misunderstanding that pondering intellectually over the truth that the five sheaths

are not "I" is itself the method of negating the five sheaths.He has carefully taught us the method of practice of

self-enquiry before revealing to us the conclusion that the five sheaths are not "I".This revolutionary understanding of

neti,neti method by Bhagawan contributed a lot in the whole understanding of Advaita and Bhagawan took us

to a new heights in understanding the method of practice of self-enquiry and in this aspect Bhagawan surpassed

Adi Sankara in contributing to the understanding of human consciousness.
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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #116 on: December 24, 2008, 05:51:12 AM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 23

Meaning:- Because of nonexistence of another consciousness to know that which exists (The reality,Sat,Ulladu)

is consciousness (chit,unarvu),that consciousness is itself "we"(The real self).

Comment:- In the remaining eight verses,Bhagawan reveals more conclusions,which will be useful in helping us

to put self-enquiry into practice,but which can be realised through direct experience only when we actually

attend to the "I" and there by realise it's true nature.

That which exists is real self "I" which shines forth spontaneously when the mind dies.Since this "we"(self,namay ullam)

is the only existence or reality,there cannot exist any consciousness other than it to know it,and hence it is itself

the consciousness which knows itself (unarve).Therefore "we"(The reality) are also consciousness (chit).

Our existence and the knowledge of our existence are not two different things,but are one and the same reality.
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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #117 on: December 24, 2008, 06:25:58 AM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 24

Meaning:- By existing (irukkum) in their real nature which is existence or Sat,God and souls are one substance (vastu).

Their adjunct knowledge or adjunct consciousness alone is different.

Comment:- The existence consciousness "I am" is the real nature of both God (Eswara) and of souls (Jivas).

But on this "I am" adjuncts or upadhis are superimposed and these adjuncts which are a form of wrong knowledge

or ignorance,gives rise to seeming differences which exist between God and soul.

The soul feels that he is Kinchigna (Posessing limited knowledge),transient (living for a limited period of time)

with limited existence and limited power and he thinks that God is all knowing (Sarvajna),all powerful (omnipotent)

all pervading (omniscient) and eternal without birth or death.This is an imagination which exists only in the

outlook of the soul (Jiva Dristi) and not in the outlook of God (Eswara Dristi).
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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #118 on: December 24, 2008, 07:25:34 AM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 25

Meaning:- Knowing oneself having given up identity with one's own adjuncts (Upadhis) is itself knowing God,

because he shines as oneself as one's own reality (I am).

Comment:- In Ulladu Narpadu Bhagawan said, "He who sees the real self,the source of the individual self,

alone is he who has seen God (Here seeing God means being as the "self" whose nature is Godliness),

because the "Real Self" which shines forth after the base i.e the individual self has perished--is not other than God."

Since that which exists and shines is one as "I am" is the true nature of God and since it is only one's own

adjunct knowledge (Jiva Dristi,Upadhi Unarvu,Vesha dhi) that veils the knowledge of "I am",knowing this "I am",

which is one's own real self,without identity to the adjuncts (Upadhis) is itself knowing God.
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Re: Upadesha Saram
« Reply #119 on: December 24, 2008, 07:43:37 AM »
Upadesa Saram: Verse 26

Meaning:- Being the self itself is knowing the self,because self is that which is not two.

This is abidance as the reality (Tanmaya Nishta).

Comment:- Since we do not have two selves,one self to be known by the other self,what is called self-knowledge

is nothing but the state of being the self i.e the state of abiding "as we really are",as mere existence consciousness

"I am" instead of rising as "I am this","I am that".This state of being is what is called "self abidance" (Atma-Nishta)

or "abidance as the reality" (Tanmaya Nishta).
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