Author Topic: mahamudra meditation  (Read 10594 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2008, 11:05:05 AM »
Dear mai chop gohok,

The Brahmins in the Asram did Pooja because it was the custom
amongst Hindus, to do pooja for the cows, any new starting ceremony
for constructions, or to the Siva Linga in Mathrubhutesvarar Temple,
Mother's Samadhi.  You can take it that Bhagavan Ramana did tolerate
all non-objectionable practices and He also did not stop them.  His
way was a way to Atma and He did not have any quarrel with any
religion.  As I told you last evening, every pathfinder should have
a basic platform of his own religion, to start with.  Bhagavan Ramana
did not start any new religion, but only showed a new path, which had
gathered dust and cactus, after Gaudapada and Sankara.  But He
would have definitely objected to any prohibitive ways of worship
or sacrifice.

For example, no body dared to come to His Asram and say that
he would  follow the Veera Marga of Sakta Tantra, a worship to
Godhead in the pose of union with a woman!  Mind you, this
is an accepted practice of Hindu religion and perhaps Osho came
very near to this system.  He did not approve animal sacrifices too.
He was against caste and creed, but there were two separate rows for brahmins and non brahmins in lunch hall and He was sitting in
the middle of the two rows.  This shows, He did not approve caste
practices, but tolerated the practices of other brahmins.

As regards, mahamudra, I never said that He would have objected to that
meditation if some Buddhists had come and practised it in the Old Hall.
He would have tolerated that, and for that matter, any practice, which
was not vulgar and objectionable in the normal sense of the term.

But the fact remains He was beyond Hinduism and any such religions,
which had, in course of time, contaminated the philosophy of Pure
Enquiry and Self Knowledge.

Arunachala Siva.     

mai_chop_gohok

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2008, 12:57:35 PM »
The Brahmins in the Asram did Pooja because it was the custom amongst Hindus
they still do that today in the ashram as far as I can see on the ashram videos.

As I told you last evening, every pathfinder should have a basic platform of his own religion, to start with.
what about ppl without that "burden" ?

As regards, mahamudra, I never said that He would have objected to that
meditation if some Buddhists had come and practised it in the Old Hall.
despite I have no idea what would be the point of doing that, I doubt that this would be possible or tolerated today.

But the fact remains He was beyond Hinduism and any such religions,
which had, in course of time, contaminated the philosophy of Pure
Enquiry and Self Knowledge.
there are even large groups of osho "devoties" nowadays in india and nepal, that do "osho pujas"...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 03:09:33 PM by mai_chop_gohok »

Subramanian.R

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2008, 01:52:29 PM »
Dear mai goh chop,

They are doing Poojas even today in the Asram, because the devotees
and ashram authorities consider Bhagavan Ramana, who was not
different from Siva even earlier, has now become Siva Himself.  Like
the Christians, at least a certain sect, do for the Christ's photograph
or to the Cross, which is a symbol of  sacrifice.  You know, Teravada
Buddhists pray to the Buddha's statues with incense sticks and camphor
burning?

If any one wants to go away from burden, be it religious or philosophical, he can still do self enquiry, from such position.

If people in Nepal and India do Osho devotional practices in some
form, be it Veera Marga or something else, let  them do.  We have
no quarrel.  Each one, according to their inclination, but not creating
objection from the society.

Mahamudra or no mahamudra, one can still do self enquiry.

Arunachala Siva.       
     

mai_chop_gohok

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2008, 02:42:41 PM »
an average asian theravada buddhist has never even heard about vipassana and practises loads of far worse and weird things than praying to buddha statues, but I don´t want to compare this with the the things practiced in the ramana ashram as I have never been there.

Subramanian.R

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2008, 02:57:51 PM »
Dear mai chop goho,

In this Forum, we speak the truth.  The buddhistic rituals which
I have described, I have seen as  participant one day in the
Maha Bodhi Society, Bangalore, where some Sri Lankans were doing
and I was witnessing.  They teach Walking Meditation, something
similar to Zazen or Sitting Meditation of Zen Masters.

In Sri Ramansramam, I have been going once for three days in
three months, and I have seen this Puja many times.  There is
nothing abnormal about it, as it is done in any Siva Temple.  Both
the samadhis of Mother Azhgamma and Bhagavan Ramana have their
Siva Lingas, on top.  There are elaborate poojas and milk is distributed,
with holy ashes and vermillon.  David Godman,  came to
Tiruvannamalai in 1976 and is still staying there for the past 42
years.  He became Self realized in three years.  He is doing circumambulation 108 times, a holy number, in Bhagavan Ramana's
shrine, every evening!  He takes prasad.  I have seen Western devotees, taking broom sticks and cleaning the entire Asram.  Dear friend,
these have to be gone through while doing self enquiry or even after
self realization and these are not rituals but more than that.  What
benefits these things give, whether these are essential pre requisites
for self realization, only the doer can say.

Arunachala Siva.
 

   

mai_chop_gohok

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2008, 03:17:08 PM »
but where does the urge come from to call all this "not hindu" ?

Subramanian.R

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2008, 03:19:49 PM »
My dear mai chop gohok,

I only said Bhagavan Ramana, as a Teacher and as a person,
was beyond Hinduism or any other religion.  I did not refer
Ramana devotees and disciples as Hindus or non Hindus.

Arunachala Siva.

mai_chop_gohok

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2008, 03:32:38 PM »
I did not refer Ramana devotees and disciples as Hindus or non Hindus.
but I did.

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2008, 04:02:19 PM »
Dear all,
          Religion serves as a jumping board from the knowable to the unknowable.Once a person jumps into the unknowable he loses himself
along with the idenity of belonging to a particular religion.Bhagawan after death experience is a self realised master and cannot be considered
to be a Hindu and he has thrown away sared thread(yajnopaveetam) into the tank of the temple and remained only with a cod piece.All beings
are same to him and he is friendly and affectionate towards animals which have no religion at all.The cross section of the society used to come
for his guidance irrespective of their religious conditioning.He has never taken rituals seriously and used to joke about Brahmin and nonbrahmin
separation during meals.Once one devotee asked when you are teaching self-enuiry why so many rituals are going in Matrubhuteswara temple
and is there any virtue in doing rituals like that.Bhagawan laughingly replied to him those who want to do rituals let them do and because of
their offerings first our stomachs are filled without much trouble.Before realisation he never practiced any religion and he never heard the word
Brahman before realisation but all the same he became Brahman after the death experience in few minutes.When someone asked whether
Buddha is realised or not he assertively told him "yes".He described the state of Brahman as "I am that i am" which is a description originally
described by Moses.Not only Bhagawan,anybody who jumps into the unknowable and settles there does not belong to any religion.
He is like a man sitting on the fence between the known and the unknowable and capable of conveying unknowable for
those who are living identified with the known.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2008, 04:50:11 PM »
Dear mai chop gohok,

Further to what Dr. Raju has said,

If you did believe either way, it is for you to work out the Truth.

Arunachala Siva.   

mai_chop_gohok

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2008, 05:40:21 PM »
it´s pretty easy to hide what u really think behind advaitic hanky panky...

Subramanian.R

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Re: mahamudra meditation
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2008, 09:49:50 AM »
My dear mai chop gohok,

I am closing this discussion on rituals and advaita.  You can have
the last laugh.

Arunachala Siva.