Author Topic: Practical Stuff  (Read 19470 times)

dedhed

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Practical Stuff
« on: February 12, 2007, 06:23:21 AM »
I am rather surprised to find this section empty.  i guess it is intimidating supposing that one can add anything to teachings based on the direct experience of someone like Ramana, without having fully experienced the same oneself.  But I think it is very useful for one to discuss these concepts, in order to stimulate the integration of these concepts into the consciousness of the individual. Not that the concept is the goal.  In Ramana's teaching, one uses questioning in order to free oneself of false concepts about who we really are.  In the end, what is left is not a concept, but freedom from the false assumptions which we usually function under.  It is like the old analogy of peeling away the layers of an onion until there is nothing left.  So what we are doing is de-conditioning ourselves, so that we may experience reality as it really is, without adding anything to it.
  Very important in this process is freeing ourselves of the desire for a result.  If you are trying to achieve some enlightenment, then you do not yet realize that there is not anything to achieve.  You are already that, and to desire some experience or realization is just another obstacle to seeing the truth.
Notice if you lose awareness of the relaxation in the pit of your stomach.  Whenever we are reaching for something, it will always express itself as tension there.
Perhaps it is presumptuous of me to speak of these things here, since I am just a random nobody and this is the official site of Ramana's ashram.  But this is an open forum, and I am certain Ramana would forgive any inadvertent misunderstandings and heresies. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 09:06:32 AM by dedhed »

Graham

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2007, 06:07:12 PM »
Please note -

This is not the official site of Sri Ramanasramam, it is a free site.

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dedhed

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2007, 02:57:27 AM »
Sorry. I guess I either lost track of where I was following all the links, or I simply misunderstood.  In any case, congratulations on an excellent site.

Hameed

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2007, 11:54:26 PM »
In Ramana's teaching, one uses questioning in order to free oneself of false concepts about who we really are.  In the end, what is left is not a concept, but freedom from the false assumptions which we usually function under.  It is like the old analogy of peeling away the layers of an onion until there is nothing left.  So what we are doing is de-conditioning ourselves, so that we may experience reality as it really is, without adding anything to it.
  Very important in this process is freeing ourselves of the desire for a result.  If you are trying to achieve some enlightenment, then you do not yet realize that there is not anything to achieve.  You are already that, and to desire some experience or realization is just another obstacle to seeing the truth.
Notice if you lose awareness of the relaxation in the pit of your stomach.  Whenever we are reaching for something, it will always express itself as tension there.

Dear Dedhed,
Ramana's teaching is not about how to free oneself from the false self concept.
Vichara is about being engaged in activities that are helpful to live an harmonious life.
At the right moment the satguru will show up and give you the right treatment so that your enlightenment will occur at the predestined moment. Nothing can change that very moment.

It is not insight/understanding but the complete burning away of your vasanas together with the work of the satguru that will free you.   
Having a desire for enlightenment or not will not affect the moment of freedom at all. It will only have an effect on your peace of mind.
"To loose awareness" as you write is a strange expression in Advaita. Awareness is what is always there.

Sebastian

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2007, 12:22:57 AM »
Dear devotee: I agree with you saying that our Guru Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi has recommended us to get rid of the false concepts that keep us far from being aware of our true Self. But I also agree with Hameed: "Vichara is about being engaged in activities that are helpful to live an harmonious life." You both are helping all of us to better understand our Guru's teachings. Thanks!
Well, I would like to know which are the ways that our Guru uses to communicate with His devotees, if any. I am specialy interested in this matter and would appreciate any help all of you can do. Yours in Bhagavans' grace, Sebastian.

Hameed

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2007, 12:47:42 AM »
Dear devotee: I agree with you saying that our Guru Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi has recommended us to get rid of the false concepts that keep us far from being aware of our true Self. But I also agree with Hameed: "Vichara is about being engaged in activities that are helpful to live an harmonious life." You both are helping all of us to better understand our Guru's teachings. Thanks!
Well, I would like to know which are the ways that our Guru uses to communicate with His devotees, if any. I am specialy interested in this matter and would appreciate any help all of you can do. Yours in Bhagavans' grace, Sebastian.

Dear Sebastian, It is tricky to speak about Sri Ramana as one's Guru. Bhagavan merged with the Absolute in 1950. To the few disciples whose satguru He was at that moment he remained the guide. Apart from those blessed souls no one has ever heard or seen Him. The Bhagavan you refer to as your guru, is a projection of your mind and takes place only within your imagination. There is nothing wrong with that. Just be aware that this Ramana is your personal creation and thus not perfect. He reflects the maturity of your own sadhana.

A real Guru is Love and it is this Love that is the teaching. His Love removes your fear and thus allows freedom, the freedom you need to dump false concepts. In this freedom you can recognize your own wisdom. A Guru can teach you nothing that you do not know already.   

Namaste

Hameed 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 12:52:19 AM by Hameed »

Sebastian

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2007, 10:32:36 PM »


Dear Sebastian, It is tricky to speak about Sri Ramana as one's Guru. Bhagavan merged with the Absolute in 1950. To the few disciples whose satguru He was at that moment he remained the guide. Apart from those blessed souls no one has ever heard or seen Him. The Bhagavan you refer to as your guru, is a projection of your mind and takes place only within your imagination. There is nothing wrong with that. Just be aware that this Ramana is your personal creation and thus not perfect. He reflects the maturity of your own sadhana.

A real Guru is Love and it is this Love that is the teaching. His Love removes your fear and thus allows freedom, the freedom you need to dump false concepts. In this freedom you can recognize your own wisdom. A Guru can teach you nothing that you do not know already.   

Namaste

Hameed 
[/quote]

Dear Hameed, How can you know that when I say that Ramana is my guru I am only expressing a projection of my mind that takes place only within my imagination?!
I feel it unreal to limit the actions of this great soul to only one encarnation, and, what is worse, limit the number of beings that can receive His sacred orientation! Remember that Bhagavan has said that He would stay forever at Arunachala. And Arunachala is not a paralyzed fenomenum, but has got the energy and grace that so many great beings, including Sri Ramana have sparkled over that mountain and flow to all directions on this planet!  If, as you affirm, Bhagavans' direct influence is not available for the sincere seeker that practices the Yogas (Karma, Jnana, Bhakti), I see no reason to continue studying His teachings and receiving His messages and books! No! you must be an obstinated and intelligent student, but Bhagavan's teachings of Love and Wisdom shows that HE WAS, IS AND FOREVER WILL BE CLOSE TO ALL THE SINCERE DEVOTEES, NOT ONLY TO A RELATIVELY SMALL GROUP OF PRIVILEGED PERSONS! NO!
Arunachala akshara Ramanala!
With all my heart, yours in Bhagavans' grace, Sebastian.   

Hameed

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2007, 10:41:17 PM »
Everybody has the right to worship the Self as Rama, Krishna, Buddha Jezus or Ramana. Do as you like but Jnana is not Bhakti.

mick hutchinson

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2007, 07:58:24 PM »
Ramana said the Guru is the SELF.
All that exists is the SELF.
Its not the EGO that resonds when you nees help it is the SELF.
Everything is within.
The whole of the percieved world is no more than a picture within the SELF.
Words and the thinking process deal with duality

nandu

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2007, 03:47:14 PM »
Hello All,

To whom is Ramana a Guru?

Silence Always,

Nandu

Hameed

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2007, 07:06:56 PM »
Hello All,

To whom is Ramana a Guru?

Silence Always,

Nandu

That's really a good question Nandu. But, why do you not read the previous postings on this topic?

Thousands believe Ramana is their guru. But it is just a belief, a concept. Bhagavan left his body in 1950 and apart from the few discipels whose satguru he was, nobody has seen him again. The people who claim guidance, visions etc. from Bhagavan are not more special than the devotees who get guidance, visions etc. from Jesus, Krishna or Rama. In other words, Like in their dreams, these people project all these heavenly Masters within their imagination and like in dreams they experience their own projections as real.

Since they are not perfect beings, also their projected gurus are imperfect beings. If they speak wisdom, it is usually from the devotees' own uncouscious memory.
Their heavenly "satgurus" are sometimes totally unreliable and unpredictable. Never blame Jesus, Krishna or Ramana for the crap and nonsense these people tend to produce.

Greetings

Hameed
 

 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 12:41:52 AM by Hameed »

Sharada

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2007, 08:31:57 PM »
Dear all,
I have just come across this discussion about whether Bhagavan is a guru or  not. I don't understand how one can limit Him to the body that left in 1950. He is the very Satguru, the very essence of Being that is in all of us, He goes by the name of Rama, Jesus, Allah, etc. He has not gone anywhere, He is there as always, ever ready to guide you  and shower His Grace on whoever turns to Him. He alone IS!
Yours in Bhagavan,
Sharada

Hameed

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2007, 08:58:01 PM »
Dear all,
I have just come across this discussion about whether Bhagavan is a guru or  not. I don't understand how one can limit Him to the body that left in 1950. He is the very Satguru, the very essence of Being that is in all of us, He goes by the name of Rama, Jesus, Allah, etc. He has not gone anywhere, He is there as always, ever ready to guide you  and shower His Grace on whoever turns to Him. He alone IS!
Yours in Bhagavan,
Sharada

Dear Sharada,

You are perfectly right. So many people limit Sri Ramana to the body and think he sits on a bench somewhere in Heaven continuing his work as satguru.
Of course it is all nonsense. Satgurus have one to five disciples at one time to whom he is the satguru, in other words people whom he guides towards certain enlightenment. He is monitoring their minds all the time, round the clock. Scolding, beating and guiding them. Even when he leaves the body he will continue his guidance but only to the ones whose satguru he was while in the body.
All people who later claim Ramana is the satguru, foster just a belief, like Jesus died for my sins, Islam is the only way to salvation etc.
Ramana merged with the Absolute and like any soul has no physical limits anymore. As long as there is Ego in a devotee, the selfless nature of Ramana's boundless love cannot be experienced.

Above is no different from the teachings of Bhagavan Himself and is a pointer towards the Truth.

Greetings

Hameed
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 01:11:15 AM by Hameed »

Premanjali

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2007, 10:20:04 PM »
                        ALL IS ONE !!! (also a booklet ISBN 81-88018-40-6; Sri Ramanaasramam)

The true Guru - Satguru - resides within the lotus of your heart, the centre of the Self.

When the Jiva/Soul is ripe and ready, Self/God/Guru will project or manifest Itself in a physical form (embodied or dis-embodied) if that form is easier to accept by the particular Soul. The manifestation of Self in the form of a physical Guru will guide the Soul to the Ultimate Truth by pushing from the outside, while the inner Guru will pull from the inside (figuratively speaking) back into it's origin of the centre or heart.
The Guru can take any form and appearance that is the most conductive for that Soul to achieve the Ultimate goal of waking up the Soul to the Truth and eliminating the illusion of Ego by devouring the individual personality/Ego.

Only the Soul in question can identify it's own true Guru by the effect that manifestation has upon the individual.

Utmost importance is the willingness of the Soul to allow that, the mind/ego will try to run from it's elimination and trick the individual in various ways in order to survive. Old habits die hard and the mind tends to hang onto it's old incorrect conditioning, desires and perceptions. To realise the Ultimate Reality/Truth, all the conditioning of perceiving the Relative Reality as only Reality, has to be eliminated. This process is ruthless, harsh and usually experienced as unpleasant to the mind. It rips of layer after layer of that personality ego and crushes the misconceptions of the mind into a powder and dust to be swept away by the winds of change. The severity of this process is determined by the ridgety or flexibility of the ego personality.

To this end, UTTER and TOTAL surrender has to be given to the Self/God/Guru, that arises from a relationship of complete Love and Trust. One can only accept such processes because out of utter Love and Trust - be that to God, Guru or Universal Consciousness - it doesn't matter at all what IT is called. A name is just a concept. That LOVE or Devotion is called "Bhakti" and has to precede the fruit of "Jnana" or Wisdom/Knowledge. If there is nothing or no one to Love or Trust, the Ultimate sacrifice of self-destruction of the ego personality is extremely hard to follow through.
Bhakti without Jnana is blind, but Jnana without Bhakti is lame. They are two sides of one and the same coin and go hand in hand.

Until the state of "ONE", non-duality has been established, duality has to be utilised to arrive at the realisation of the truth. Then, there is NO-THING that has attributes of duality or anything for that matter. Just perfect Consciousness - Awareness of an Emptiness that is perfect Fullness at the same time - mind can not grasp it - words can not describe it, no concept can even come close to it.

You - me, the words you're reading, the screen it appears upon, the electricity that enables it to work, the air you breathe and the mind that thinks right now - ALL THAT IS - IS ONE - is Ramana, Christ, Krishna any name , any form - available to anyone at anytime. Anything perfect and anything imperfect, is ONE Consciousness - one Energy, playing a Divine Lila - a drama on Itself as the stage, about Itself, with Itself, watching Itself, applauding Itself. Where does the air of the bedroom end and the air of the lounge room start? Is the air I'm breathing separate from the air you're breathing? Where does it separate?  It's all one air - no gaps or separations.

And It is all there, NOW perfectly manifest in you, me and anyone (apparent) else. The ONLY thing that separates us (also apparently) from being Aware of the Reality/Truth/Consciousness is the veil the ego/mind personality has thrown over our understanding. Still the mind, stop it's chatter, trick it by asking "Who am I ?, Where am I ? WHAT am I ? Who is thinking this thought ? Where does it come from ? . Eventually, the mind will give up and retrieve into it's source, first briefly, gradually staying there a little longer until one fine day, in a random act of Grace, the Inner Guru/Self will devour it completely and the Truth will be established.

In the meantime, there is no right, there is no wrong, only different perceptions. One thousand people - one thousand Pathways - no right path or wrong path - actually, there is NO path at all. There is NOWHERE to go to or arrive at, we're already there. Once we stop chasing enlightment (what one chases is usually running ahead and away), once we stop "seeking" , we might find "THAT" already HERE and NOW and we/it just IS. 

Love and Wisdom to all

Premanjali

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Re: Practical Stuff
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2007, 10:28:29 PM »
so many stories of gurus ...... so little time

i see the things that Ramana said not as teachings , but as an invitation ( for those who are ready ) to investigate the self . this simply means to face the fear of death which is at the root of the avoidance of truth .
simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it