Author Topic: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.  (Read 8930 times)

S.Subramanian

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Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« on: October 25, 2008, 11:13:28 PM »
In the direct path of self-enquiry, the seeker encounters fear of death.  Seized with fear of death, the Maharshi enquired into the self.  In the case of the seekers, the enquiry leads to this fear.  Chadwick says this fear is a good sign, though it must be overcome.  What could be its significance?

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2008, 07:18:23 AM »
Dear S.Subramanian,
                            We ar so used to thought activity,when it is not there for few moments during temporary stilling of thought(manolaya)
it appears as though it is death but actually that stillness is our nature.As we continue the self-enquiry we will be accustomed to stilling of
thought and we will overcome the fear of death.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2008, 01:08:25 PM »
Dear S. Subramanian,

The fear is a natural phenomenon for one who is trying to quieten
the mind.  Mind means thoughts, so the quiet mind brings a sensation
of emptiness and one gets immense fear, because we think that
our mind is gone mad!  I had this fear, and I had to chant several
times Arunachala Siva. Arunachala Siva, to get back to my stupid
'self'.  Certain occasions, I had felt I had no body or the body had
become totally weightless, like a bird's wing.  This also gives
terrific fear, because you want to 'feel weight and for this, have a
body.'  This mind-body demon will not leave us easily.  Go beyond
all these fears, since Bhagavan Ramana is with us during our
'sadhana', ever present and guiding us.

Arunachala Siva. 
 

ramanaduli

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2008, 10:58:15 PM »
Dear sirs,


I think the members in this forum had los of experiences. Does  it not need any guide to go further. During Bhagavan's period, he taught self enquiry and those who practices might have discussed with Him. And His grace also might have helped them. Is not it?  I have a very good friend. I used to discuss about the experiences. Friend told just to proceed
further. Only problem is that I cannot manage the new enviornent. I feel I have stuck up means my mind.
Is there any solution.


Ramanaduli

ramanaduli

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2008, 11:30:54 PM »
Dear Sirs,

In Thrukkadavur, Siva removes the Fear of Death. So people wish to do their 60,80th birthday there. I also been twice during my relative's function. But nobody including the pandit did not explain the inner meaning i.e how the fear can go.
They say Markandeya worshiped so at his death time Shiva came and protected him from the mouth of death and Markandeya became Chiranjeevi. Therefore if you worship Shiva, He will grant us Deergaush. But I think the self enquiry itself bring us everyone Chiranjeevi. Is not it?



Ramanaduli

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 06:44:05 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,
                       When we have a possbility of eternal life with self-enquiry why to beg for body bound deergayush.The desire for deergayush
arises because of death fear.Our Ayush is fixed already according to our prarabda,why desire to change a natural event.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2008, 08:40:23 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Why everyone wants a long life?  As Dr. Raju said, we are all
afraid of death.  Death means to most of us, leaving the things
known and going into the Unknown.  This death will become
immortality, that is, one gets a deathless life, by constantly praying
to the God outside, then, later praying to him within ourselves.
The God within or the Self or Brahman, takes you into Its fold.
And that is immortality.

Arunachala Siva.

matthias

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 09:27:19 AM »
I come to tis fear also in my meditaition from time to time...

its is like a confrontation with somehting that is totally out of controll, a part of the mind that the mind cannot hold...when I get a glimpse of it (this is indeed a space that is ever-present, and that expresses itself without my help, or controll) then I know that I have to totally surrender anything Iam made of to it...and this is impossible, and to scary to think about...

I know now to fully embody this is due to grace of the beyond and great surrender of the mind, a surrender that swallows and digests the mind....

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2008, 10:16:11 AM »
Dear Matthias,

Please pursue.  Give a fright to that fear of losing mind or death.
The fear will run away.  Be angry with anger, anger will run away.

Arunachala Siva.

SDBC

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2008, 04:24:37 AM »
Hello :)

I have just started on 'my' path towards liberation, so take this information with a grain of salt (the info I give is true enough, according to science, but sadhana I have little to no experience/'true' knowledge with/about). And please don't judge me for knowing about psychedelic drugs.

In the psychedelic world, when one experiences temporary egodeath (when you become one with the universe, loose the sense of 'I') on psychedelic drugs, it is very common to experience fear of death (which isn't that illogical 'you' ARE 'dying'), or fear of becoming insane, right before the actual egodeath-experience.
Many who have experienced this fear, and have overcome this fear (and experienced egodeath), come out of the 'trip' with no fear of death in their normal lives.

The remainder of this post was deleted by Admin
« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 04:52:37 AM by Graham »

Graham

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2008, 05:07:36 AM »
The use of drugs to induce some blissful state is not only useless, but totally harmful to sadhana. Bhagavan himself said so.

Addiction to the enhanced state is always the result, and drug abuse follows. This is a fact of life and the millions of addicts in the world are proof of it.

They are not the least bit enlightened, they fear life and death more than most - which is why they pursue their drug-induced dream world.

The fear of death is the ego's fear, it does not want to die, so it fights to survive by using every trick it can. Fear of death will never leave until Self-realisation occurs.

Drugs are NOT the way!

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2008, 06:39:42 PM »
Dear Subramanian,
                         Fear of death during self-enquiry is due resistance of the mind to disidentify and withdraw it's attention from the known.
Dissociating from the known is like death to the mind because it thrives only because of the known.If we withdraw our attention from the known
that attention settles in the self without any oscillation.If there no oscillation of the attention there is nothing like mind,there is only awareness,
so mind tries it's best for it's survival to cause oscillation to the attention in the form of fear.One has to go beyond this stage as Major Chadwik says.
pvssnraju

matthias

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2008, 07:21:58 PM »
oh so true dr raju

a very wonderfull explanation

if I surrender to "this" then there is no death, death is not known by it, also matthias is not known by it, jet in the conceptual world that is still there I know that death exists, and Iam exissting but when I surrender to the impossible nature of this moment then there is not death, I cannot find it, and I also cannot find my mind...

therefor ramana maharishi and his method is godsend, the purest meditation on this planet....

I love him very much ----this is my little truth


ramanaduli

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2008, 08:38:25 PM »
Dear sirs,

There is one case. There is no fear to die. The patient, (the whole family also) thinks and prays for the end.
But the end is not coming. His mind is prepared. But we do not know whether he does not have mind on account of his spiritual sadhana. What can say about this mind's position.


Ramanaduli

SDBC

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Re: Fear of death in the direct path of self-enquiry.
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2008, 03:51:34 AM »
The use of drugs to induce some blissful state is not only useless, but totally harmful to sadhana. Bhagavan himself said so.

Addiction to the enhanced state is always the result, and drug abuse follows. This is a fact of life and the millions of addicts in the world are proof of it.

They are not the least bit enlightened, they fear life and death more than most - which is why they pursue their drug-induced dream world.

The fear of death is the ego's fear, it does not want to die, so it fights to survive by using every trick it can. Fear of death will never leave until Self-realisation occurs.

Drugs are NOT the way!
I was quite offended, by your actions, when I looked at the topic this morning  :-\, but my anger/sadness have settled by now.  :)

I want to say before I reply, that we agree in two things, and that is what you ended your topic with: "Drugs are NOT the way!" and that "The fear of death is the ego's fear, it does not want to die, so it fights to survive by using every trick it can." I'm not sure what to believe about when the fear will stop ???

BUT as any other experience, if looked upon with the right glasses, I believe you can learn from it. To give an extreme example of this: Your brother teases you, and he won't stop, you tell him to stop, you scream at him to stop, but he continues, you end up being so angry at him, that you throw something after him, he looses his balance and is nearly falling down the stairs. You suddenly realize that if he had felled down those stairs, it might very well have killed him, and you realize how feelings 'illusionize' ( ;D) you, and you promise yourself never to let yourself 'illusionize' by feelings again.

This was the way I meant that psychedelic drugs might help you. Just as I'm not saying that throwing stuff at people would help your sadhana, I'm likewise NOT saying that taking psychedelic drugs would help your sadhana. ;)

When we have this settled, I'd like to ask you why you deleted the major points in my topic, I don't see that they are breaking the rules of the forum? I was just trying to help, with what I have to offer of knowledge, and to say it mild, I don't like your actions towards me, considering that I'm just trying to help, it made me sad. I'm raised with the opinion that freedom of speech is a very importing thing, and I want to believe that you have the same opinion. :) Regardless how stupid things one may say, as long as the things doesn't offend anyone, it's your right.  ;D

Regarding your statement
Addiction to the enhanced state is always the result, and drug abuse follows. This is a fact of life and the millions of addicts in the world are proof of it.
I have an answer but it might seem like a very provoking way, to answer your statement with, but it is certainly not meant like that :) But it's the simplest way for me to explain. :) Please don't get offended, I'm just trying to be a nice person, and I recognize that my answer looks as if I'm trying to piss you off, THIS IS NOT THE CASE :) I'm just pretty bad at explaining things without using examples.
And please, again don't judge me. I'm NOT taking/selling/etc drugs! (except maybe for the caffeine in my tea, and the sugar in the cookie that I eat while I drink it) The reason I know all this stuff is that 1) I have friends who do 2) I have tried some of the more 'harmless' like alcohol etc. 3) The only forum that have people discussing philosophy and sadhana in my country is a harm reduction website.
The answer:
You seem to not understand the situation about drugs, I'll like to explain this with another example:
This is how your statement would look if we were talking about sports:
"When one participate in sports, tennis elbow is always the result, and handicap follows. This is a fact of life and millions of tennis elbows in the world are proof of it" (Can we at least laugh together on this one? :) It seems funny when you see from that angle right? :D)
As well as there's many different sports, and only tennis,badminton etc. have the CNANGE of giving tennis elbows, the are many types of drugs and 'only' MOST OF THEM like heroin, speed, alcohol (some are surely more addictive than others i.e. heroin) have the CHANGE of making the subject an addict. This change isn't 100% (not even for heroin, though it is quite near). And the BILLIONS of people having TRIED 'drugs' are the proof of that.

Psychedelic drugs, except for ketamine, have no observed addiction potential, neither physical addiction, nor psychological addiction have been observed (that isn't totally correct, some psychological addiction have been observed. The psychological addiction potential is something like 1:1000, that is for every thousand people having taken the drug (in a longer period) one have become addicted). A fun fact is that the most intense psychedelic drug known to man, DMT, is produced IN OUR OWN BRAIN while we are sleeping! And most psychedelic drugs have no effect if taken more than once a week. Most people feel that they have to wait over a month before they feel ready to take the drug again.

And you aren't stupid or anything to believe what you believe, it's pretty normal, and a result of the war on drugs. It's a very sad thing to have such a misinformation circulating, because when those, who regardless of what they are told, try a drug anyway, realize that they don't become a drug addict, with no money, living on the street, steeling from people, by smoking a joint, the whole positive effect of the war on drugs completely vanishes, because the subject now doesn't believe in ANYTHING he is told, and now have the complete wrong image that drugs are totally harmless. That is why harm reduction was invented. :)

And I want to thank you very much for posting Bhagavans opinion, I didn't knew that he had said anything about drugs. :)

Can we make peace, and be friends?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 04:02:30 AM by SDBC »