Author Topic: No need to pacify the mind  (Read 29737 times)

ramanaduli

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2008, 08:57:32 PM »
Dear srkudai

All vasanas and kamas are mind's play only. The person who  is geting fear,thinks it is happening to him only not for others. But all the human being is occupied by mind except brahma jnani. The person should read or go for self knowledge. After geting knowledge who he is i.e. he is pure consiousness, he is not mind, then he can handle his mind. This is the cause for his fear. Guru can only wipe out his doubt, and fear.


Ramanaduli

gangajal

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2008, 10:56:53 PM »
Dear gangajal,
                   I am not upset by your comments on JK,you have got every freedom to comment anybody.But my purpose of posting to you is different.
Judging,evaluating others divert our attention from doing self-enquiry and during sadhana period it is not advisable.I feel that better we utilise
the available time for self-enquiry because life is short and time is highly precious.

Thank you DRPVSSNRAJU for the clarification. I agree with you completely. It seems that my lack of chittasuddhi was showing!

gangajal

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2008, 11:02:48 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli, Gangajal, Dr. Raju and srkudai,

Kundalini or Raja marga is one of the methods of cleaning the mind.
There are other methods under Bhakti and Karma margas.

I believe that we should stop this ping-pong game of whether plugging
or cleaning is the real cleaning.  It is for etymologists to battle out
the roots of these words and do the boxing in the ring.  I have given
my views and srkudai has given his views.  Both may be correct.
Nevertheless, I do not want to have the last laugh!

Arunachala Siva.     


Dear Subramanian,
     I would say that it is one's Guru who really does the cleaning. But then since
the Guru is non-different from Kundalini shakti which in turn is non-different from
the Self, it is finally the Self which does the cleaning. Would you agree with this?

Gangajal

gangajal

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2008, 11:11:18 PM »
Dear Silence,
     [[[These discussions are very important. Each one of us comes from different back-ground and have practised Spirituality in our own lives for quite some time ... so here we are deconditioning some beliefs. We need to understand very clearly and see what is not correct as wrong. Disagreements are beautiful. Coz out of disagreements, different ideas pop up. IF all of us think the same way... its absolutely futile and boring.]]]

    Yes, I agree. However, let me also state here that not every one's opinion has the same value. I would give more weight to the opinion of a person who has had personal experience. For example, I am suspecting from Subramanian's accurate posts that he has had some personal
spiritual experience. Subramanian is not telling us merely from the intellectual level. (I hope I am not embarasing him.)

[[[Please see ... Pranayama / Bhajan clears mind ... does not clear the cause for junk in mind. So stage fear is not there in the mind, but it might appear. That there is nothing to fear has to be learnt. That is a solution. That is attacking the problem ... not the symptoms.]]]

   Yes, we must ultimately destroy the seed. That is why the highest samadhi is called nirbija samadhi. However, before you can destroy the seed, you must clean the room!

Gangajal

ramanaduli

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2008, 01:19:06 AM »
Dear srkudai


Every body has got "Mind". They say all the problems due to the impure mind. It is the problem and block for self knowledge. Now to make the mind from impure to pure. we are discussing so many ways. Here I want to mention that, while going for process, all the ways would not be suitable for all. It may differ to each one. like age wise, sex, living condition. As already the mind is  conditioned, now it is very difficult., to make unconditioned. As I quoted earlier, if any one have a brahma jnani as his guru it will be easy. Now a days it is very difficult to judge also with our impure mind.

I want to ask instead of cleaning is it possible to just watch the mind without giving any suggestions or any commands?
Or can we make "Still Mind"

At last whether we require Mind or not. for self knowledge as well as to survive and lead a moderate life.

please mind my question.


 Ramanaduli




ramanaduli

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2008, 09:50:59 PM »
Dear srkudai


Thanks for giving reply. After reading Bhagavan's teachings I got little peace. I used to blame my self for all the suffering.
I understood, we are not the body and the mind but we are pure consiousness which never born or will die and God and we are one. This took long time to digest for me and I took a long breath and got relaxation. When I learn all the sufferings due to our mind, then I started watching etc. etc. Now from your mail I got a new angle i.e. we need not to make still, and you agree we have to use our mind. I think, you are saying that, we need not to do anything newly because all the events are already programmed by our selves but just keep watching. Because sometimes without thing events are taken place, and I do with absent minded. So it is equal to not having mind or not using the mind.
But I agree we are not the mind. Still I think (from my mind) I we have to use mind. Whenever I start a new work, I become alert i.e. I am applying my mind carefully. When it comes to routine my mind will go somewhere and like a machine I do my work.

At last, we have mind, but we are not mind, But how we work without useing the mind to live. When we want to forget some unpleasant incidents or habit you say just watch. Do not command. like giving up pan parag.. habit.
Like
my mind say...... have pan parag
my intelligent say..... no  it is a bad habit, i have to give it up
mind................ nothing will happen, even big big yogis had it.
int....................but still you are not ripened, instead... just have one peppermint 
mind.................thinking whether to follow or not., later it takes it like a suggess,ion
int....................ok, have one peppermind instead of parn parag. and after sometime this habit also will fall away.
mind.................ok that is fine.  after all it is not a command only suggession,
and follows eating the peppermint. Is it the pacify the mind. You are saying this pacify also not necessary.
We should not make still, as we are witness,  you say that just watch the mind's play???

So far I understood this way.........Is it so?


Ramanaduli

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2008, 10:00:46 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,
                      The very attempt to make the mind still results in the activity of the mind.Simple watchfulness is enough.
                       Stillness is our natural state.It is enough if you do not disturb it."Summa iru" is enough.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 07:02:08 AM by DRPVSSNRAJU »
pvssnraju

ramanaduli

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2008, 12:11:38 AM »
Dear Raju ji

Thanks for giving the meaning "summa iru".  When I read this "summa iru" long time ago, I thought sitting idle and  if I sit idle  I would become lazy.
After so many years I understand the meaning. I got another view also from this golden words. It is not only for us but also not to indulge in other's life also. We would be watching people who need help.but unless they ask us it is better to keep away ourelves. I learnt a lesson in my life helping other. So in spiritual path we should be first concern ourselves. Otherwise we may miss our goal. Really it is a long inward journey. Nobody can help. you, your guru and your God. That is all. It is all Bhagavan's grace, I am geting new learning from this forum.


Ramanaduli

ramanaduli

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2008, 11:13:44 PM »
Dear srkudai ji

It is fine. I am awarness. I know my weakness. Now I agree with you that we should not command the mind to rectify the weakness. and we should not pacify also. Just I do observe. But how long I should observe. you may say we should not think that also. Is it possible everything would take place perfectly in future? Then what is the use of swadharma, Knowing the human's weakness, many sages gave sastras, abyas, yoga, sthuthi etc. etc. I think these are all the ways to shape up our mind in healthy and good way....I think, your method may be good for advanced seeker or sadhak. Not for beginners and for people who have strong vasanas.  Just to read the spiritual book I think we should have taken so many births.
I myself feel  still, how many birth to take to practice and to merge within me.There are so any stories how big rishis and munis fell down due to their vasanas. Comparing to them I am nothing.

Ramanduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2008, 01:34:38 PM »
Dear Gangajal, srkudai and others, Yes. Self shall help us in
the cleaning, but as Bhagavan Ramana said in Who am I?
"God and Guru shall help us in self realization and shall not
confer self liberation.  One should listen to Guru's words,
and act as per His words."  So, helping in Self realization is
helping in cleaning process.

Arunachala Siva.

David

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2008, 09:41:50 PM »
Hi Friends,
I'm new to the site having bumped into it straight after a weekend of silence with friends in the English countryside. During our practice we bumped into the Mind alright. It seemed that it was not so much a question of seeking to pacify the Mind, but rather getting sufficiently silent so that the Mind could be observed for what it was and is. The more it was within the vision of the independent Witness the more it seemed to pacify itself. The frustrating thing is that this is so easily forgotten. We practised asking ' to whom is this idea arising' and then following on with the question ' Who am I?' We read about this in the numerous Sri Ramana Maharshi books and the guidance seemed very effective. We got into trouble when we deliberately set out to "still" or "quieten" the mind. But when we remembered that the Awareness and Myself are not different, and we remembered ourselves as the Witness, the quietening process seemed to happen, more or less.
I would be really interested to find out if we are on the right track with this. I'm sure that lots of people have much more experience of working with Ramana's teachings than we have so it would be really interesting to hear from those who have practised similarly.
Thanks. I feel really privileged to have found this site.
David

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2008, 09:27:09 AM »
Dear David,
               Your understanding of self-enquiry is on the right path.One day you will be centred in awareness and stillness of thought happens to you as a side effect.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2008, 11:24:14 AM »
Dear David,

Your post.  "Getting silent" and observing the mind as the Witness,
itself shows that there is nothing much for you to clean up.  Kindly
keep up this practice.  Even without going to the countryside,
please do it in London or Birmingham, amidst the din of the cities.
If you always need a country side and a week end, (space and time),
you shall never be able to cross the Picadilly Circus.  Please pursue
and post your experiences.  These shall benefit all.

Arunachala Siva.   

David

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2008, 09:59:28 PM »
Dear David,

Your post.  "Getting silent" and observing the mind as the Witness,
itself shows that there is nothing much for you to clean up.  Kindly
keep up this practice.  Even without going to the countryside,
please do it in London or Birmingham, amidst the din of the cities.
If you always need a country side and a week end, (space and time),
you shall never be able to cross the Picadilly Circus.  Please pursue
and post your experiences.  These shall benefit all.

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear Subramanian and Raju,

Thank you both for your encouraging responses. We shall certainly try this in Piccadilly Circus and let you know and I shall try it in the midst of the daily schedule. Many of us are teachers and there is plenty of opportunity for the Mind to get moving along with the bodies.
I remember reading in an Upanishad that when he thinks, Brahman is called the Mind; when he sees, Brahman is called the eye etc. This seems to be referring to something different to the killing off of the Ego. I hope I have not misquoted the Scripture. If I have, perhaps you would be kind enough to correct it; if not, a commentary on this would be helpful. Because, of a certainly, the Mind does seem to be used a great deal! Thank you again for your interest.
David

Subramanian.R

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2008, 11:07:12 AM »
Dear David,

Your post.  Brahadarnyaka Upanishad says that mind is the
eye, it is the ear, etc., only to take the disciple towards the
path.  It is a typical Hindu way of writing to point you that
these are all "neti neti, not this, not this" towards the end.
For example, when one young boy is living in a mid-country,
with seas far away, (like central Africa and not England) and if he
asks his father, "How is ocean?'.  The father should show him
a well first, a tank next and a river next and ultimately say
Not this, not this.  The ocean is still bigger.  Finally, when he
takes his son to the ocean, past Madgasgar, there is no need
for any comparsion.  He sees; he understands.  Seeing is
believing.

Arunachala Siva.