Author Topic: No need to pacify the mind  (Read 28691 times)

srkudai

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No need to pacify the mind
« on: October 14, 2008, 10:27:23 AM »
Dear Friends,
             :)

This is a very special thread. Coz , here we shall discuss the practise. Most people have questions like: I have been into this for such a long time, and yet i am burdened by the Samsara. I did read: Samsara maya parivarjitosi [Samsara is maya, drop it] ... but how to do it ? Coz the Samsara seems to be clinging too fast onto me!

It seems easy to listen someone say: "My dear friend, if someone scolds you you need not react", and yet, the reaction seems to come automatically! What to do ?

People have said several times: "Samsara svapnam tyaja moha nidra", world is a dream, drop the sleep of ignorance... and yet, ignorance seems to cling to me ! How do i get out of it ?

I prayed to all gods ... yet, feel empty !
I tried all i can and yet feel lowly.

How to i correct myself and get ahead. I need a "fundamental kind of revolution", as jiddu krishnamurthy would put it. How do i do it ?

These collection of articles are for someone who sees these problems. They are for someone who says:
I know what is right, i am not able to live it up. I know what is not right, i am not able to stop myself from doing what is wrong!

Love!
Silence

Subramanian.R

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2008, 10:59:42 AM »
Dear srkudai,  My case is different.  I am the one who believes that
such external controls upon me, will not give any special benefits
to me.  These simple desires, so long, as they are within the societal
ambits, (because we are living in a society and not in a jungle), need
not be suppressed.  I chew pan-parag, ghutka variety.  I am not
harming anyone with this practise. So it is okay so long as I do not
exceed the limitations on this bad habit.  Again smoking, drinking etc.,
If one drinks liquor excessively and molest a woman on the road
or hit his vehicle upon a pedestrian, then he crosses the societal
limits.  That is harmful for him and the society. Then, should these
habits to be dropped?  It depends upon one's prarabdha.  It is not
a blockade to self enquiry.  But showing anger upon others, cheating
others, harming others, these do create problems right from the first
step.  There could be different views.

Arunachala Siva.       

Subramanian.R

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2008, 12:38:50 PM »
Dear srkudai,

What I was stressing is the same idea of conditioning of the mind.
Desiring and deliberate non-desiring or abhorring, as in the case
of tobacco chewing, are both responses of conditoning of mind or
a conditoned mind.  Bhagavan said the same thing in the case of
onions for His mother.  Wanting onions or deliberately avoiding onions
are both conditions of mind.  Onions per se or tobacco per see will
not come in the way of Self realization or self enquiry.  There were
several Siddhas who were consuming ganja in the Hills.  Bhagavan
Himself was offered the same in a few times.  What Bhagavan Ramana
said about the ganja was that it will spoil the mind further in case one
is full of bad thoughts in his mind.  If one's mind is having good thoughts
about the need for liberation and efforts towards it, that would help him in
his path.  I am not saying that tobacco or betel nuts are in the same
footing.  I was answering only from the point of deliberate avoiding,
because that would remain as unfulfilled desire in the mind and spring
up much more forcefully at a latter state.  Like Jadabharatha loving
a deer towards the end of his life.  One should allow the prarabdha
to run its course.  Again one cannot lust a neighbour's wife saying
that this is his prarabdha.  In that case, the society would intervene
for the social justice.

A similar incident in Mother Azhagamma's life.  She wanted greens from
the Hills and asked Akhilandamma to bring some. When the lady brought
this, she was afraid of Bhagavan Ramana and so she sent them through
Ramanatha Brahmachari.  When Ramanatha brought them, it was
observed by Bhagavan Ramana, who told Azhagamma that if she
wanted such things she could as well go back to Madurai.  Here the
case is one of deliberate wanting, creating difficulties for others.
So was also the papad-batter which Mother broght from downtown
Tiruvannamalai, to make papads.  Bhagavan chided her jocularly.
These, onions, greens and papads decribed, are the cases of the non-deliberate and deliberate conditionings of mind.  If onions were not there
in the Cave, Bhagavan would not have asked someone to deliberately
bring them and made samabhar!  Because they were there, and they
per se, do not come in the way of self enquiry, He did not prohibit them.

Arunachala Siva.   

ramanaduli

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2008, 04:06:56 PM »
Dear Subrahmaniyan ji

What srk says it is correct. We got lots of vasanas which is not going to help for our liberation. See to keep our body healthy is very essential. Without this body we cannot cross the samsara. But pan supari is not all helping to have a bealthy body. Of course these habbits are not doing any harm to others. but who gave the right to harm your body. I feel when nothing is ours, only we are custodians we should take care of it. We can have good vasanas which helps to our self realisation. Some time back I read one zen story  pouring tea in the cup. So to clean up cup which is filled up bad tea, if you pour good tea continously you may succeed. 

Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2008, 04:19:04 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli, I was not trying to say that the habit is per se
bad or good.  What I was trying to say was that deliberate attempts
to abhorrance of habits that are not societally harmful, will bring
forth contamination of the mind as much as the alternate.  When
some householders wanted to embrace sannyasa, Bhagavan said
different guidelines to different devotees.  He said, 'No' to someone
and 'Okay' to some others.  Hence when one is fit enough this will
happen, be it taking up sannyasa or giving up tobacco.  Of course,
I agree that we should not harm the body, which is a vehicle given
by God, for our pursuit.  But one's prarabdha has to be worked out,
and that is all.

Arunachala Siva.

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2008, 04:50:46 PM »
Dear all,
          Nisargadatta Maharaj used to smoke beedis so much he is called Beedi Baba.Ram Surat Kumar used to smoke cigarettes heavily.I felt
lot of sacred energy around Ram Surat Kumar and i used to identify him where he is by the vibrations of his energy from a long distance
even though his body is not visible from that distance,such is the intensity of his energy.That intensity is increased after he shed his body
and his living presence is very much available now.So for some whose attention is mainly focussed on self these things may not hinder
their spiritual progress.
pvssnraju

ramanaduli

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2008, 04:55:45 PM »
Dear Subramaniyan ji

Then what about the free will. People say where there is will there is a way. Who is telling the very act of chewing pan is bad, then who is witnessing, then who is discussing, who does justification, whether can or cannot. I consider all activities belong to "THE MIND". When Bhagavan gave the weapon "self enquiry" I think it is easy to overcome the prarabtha. Is not it?


Ramanaduli

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2008, 05:07:28 PM »
Dear all,
  I felt lot of sacred energy around Ram Surat Kumar and i used to identify him where he is by the vibrations of his energy from a long distance even though his body is not visible from that distance,such is the intensity of his energy.

That intensity is increased after he shed his body and his living presence is very much available now.
So for some whose attention is mainly focussed on self these things may not hinder their spiritual progress.

DEAR SIR,

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AND ONE CAN FEEL IT. IF YOU GO INTO HIS ASHRAM AT THIRUVANNAMALAI. ONE CAN REALLY FEEL AND ENJOY IT WITH OUT ANY DOUBT.
HOW THEIR PRESENCE IS FELT WITHOUT PHYSICAL PRESENCE OF BODY CAN BE FELT AND LEARNT.
WORTHFUL VISITNG AND SURELY WILL BE REWARDED.

SIVA SIVA ARUNACHALA SIVA.
KANNAN MEERA SANKAR

Subramanian.R

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2008, 05:10:17 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

I am happy that the topic is shifting from tobacco to other more
important aspects.  Fate and free will -- these two, as per Bhagavan
Ramana's words, are only for who is not self realized. The self-
realized Jnani is beyond both, because there is nothing other than
Self for him.  So we are all coming under the dyads of fate and
free will and there is no escape, till we realize the Self.  Again the
prarabdha is there for all of us, including Jnanis.  For the Jnanis,
the effects of prarabdha, be it good or evil fruits do not affect him.

Arunachala Siva.  

Subramanian.R

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2008, 05:27:50 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli, srkudai, Dr. Raju and Sankar,

The list is legion.  Chinmayananda used to have snifff of snuff of and
of one, even during his Gita discourses.  One Koti Swami, who lived
somewhere on the way to Tiruvannamalai, and who is the guru of
famous Ilaya Raja of Tamil Cinema music, was a chain smoker.  People
used to give him cigaratees as 'offering'!  He not only smoked but even
to disciples, he used to give a half-smoked cigarattes for a puff. The
devotees who were not smokers used to take the cigaratees, would
have a puff, as Prasad (!!!)  and suffer unending coughs!
Ram Surat Kumar used to do the same thing.  Shirdi Sai Baba used to
have hookah and so also Sri RK and Swami Vivekananda.  This is not
to drive home the point that everyone should have a smoke or a
chew, for self realization!

Bhagavan Ramana, was altogether different.  He used to have some
betal leaves and nuts, for some time, more for digestion and not for
pleasure.  Even that habit got stopped once when an attendant failed
to bring it after lunch.  It was a nimitta to stop that habit.  Gurram
Venkata Subbaramaiah has composed a Telugu song titled Thamboola
Vaibhavam on that incident! 

In the end, there will be time, there  will be time, when everything
looks alike! (T.S. Eliot)

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2008, 06:14:36 PM »
Dear srkudai, I totally agree with you on this point.  Make
necessities as luxuries.  A second TV, a lap top over and above
a desk top.  Two cell phones instead of one. That way, as you
have said, one can make any habit like tobacco, into a luxury
and stop it, eventually.  I had a car about 10 years back and I
sold it.  I do not need it now.  Whenever I have to go to air port
or Tiruvannamalai, once in two or three months, I engage a rental car, thus making a necessity into a luxury.  That, I think, is the correct
approach.

Arunachala Siva.

ramanaduli

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2008, 06:33:50 PM »
Dear Srkudai

your point i.e. we can have suggestions but not command. is right. Means when I do not follow  my mind's command
I am a master and my mind is my servent,  But 2nd point, I do not think it is necessary to make our life from necessary to luxury.
Because there is no end if we want luxury. The check post is "vichara Marga" can help us. The purpose of the life to have self realisation which it is already there and due to our prarabdha luxuries became vasanas we are in confusion. Of course we need a basic necessaries for our life not luxury for self realisation. All cannot become Janaka and have Ashtavakra guru. I do not know about others. I take this statement for my self.


Ramanaduli

ramanaduli

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2008, 12:16:31 AM »
Dear srkudai

These comfort, discomfort, mind, suggestions and its commands are to be taken for a man who realised something lacking within him, and finds the ultimate happiness is within himself. It is not enough to get the knowledge only. He should be lived in that path. For that  as we have a body, it is necessary to keep health, so we need basic things.  until we become brahma jnani.We should not but  crave for luxuries. It is ok. if I get it as a gift, still I should be ready to give to the needy people rather to keep for my luxury life. When we take a common man who sleeps under the tree he may be knowing his limitations to have a nice bed. So if you offer naturally he will be happy. But if the man is a realised man, he never bother about the gift, he will use it and if it is lost he would not be worried.  I agree with you what u said about the mind which always wants to do something.
It wants to survive so  it will cling something. Our mind never be calm,  We need not do anything for realisation as we are already bliss. Still it wants to do something. One way it is better to do good thing like bhajan, japam,going to temple, reading spiritual book, seeking guru's darshan.etc. etc. Otherwise we  do not know when the Maya will occupy us.
 As bhagavan says, the stick which burns the corpse, we have to give good work to mind till it dies and burned itself.This is my understanding so far....



Ramanduli

ramanaduli

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2008, 05:32:45 AM »
Dear srkudai


If you want to fix on asking who am I you have to withdraw yourself from outside, then only it is possible. So I feel both are same. What you said to have the convention that I am bliss. is not possible to ordinery people. We have lived on mind for generation to generation. Your stateent is correct. See in my case, I read so many times Bhagavan's book. Still my mind is doing the same thing. There is only difference after reading the book, at first I will forget, but now the worrying period became less. because I start to remind my self. When I have not crossed half of the distance, if you ask me to have luxury and not to pacify the mind ilike doing bhajan etc.  etc.. my case would be a gone case. Therefore what I want to tell is
for beginners we have to follow the old bhakti or yoga whatever they are doing, and they have to practice the vichara marga also. Previously without knowing I was geting confused now with having knowledge of "self" I get confusion,
Until we have no mind stage we have to continue fixing on self or withdraw from the mind and pacifying the mind.


Ramanaduli


Subramanian.R

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Re: No need to pacify the mind
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2008, 10:36:51 AM »
Dear srkudai, Ramanaduli,

All religious practices are only for cleansing the mind, be it pooja,
dhyana, tapas etc., etc., All efforts go only to remove the dirt in
the mind.  We do it day after day, day after day, like shaving your
your face.  One day you will find that your cheeks are clean!

Arunachala Siva.