Author Topic: No cause and effect?  (Read 4011 times)

mick hutchinson

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No cause and effect?
« on: January 29, 2007, 03:24:18 PM »
There is a Hindhu doctrine which states that cause and effect do not exist.
How can this be true when everything that we percieve is subject to the laws of cause and effect?
I think the answer to this one is simple.
For instance ,take the life of one person.
First there is the baby ,then the child the adult ,old age and then death
The child did not cause the adult ,nor the adult cause the old age or death .
They are all merely stages in the developement of the same entity!
OR
A railway line.
As we travel along the line events appear to pass by but really the events are fixed and we merely pass along the line!
The beginning and end of the line always exist.
The motion of the train along the line represents the apparent passage of time.
The line is eternal.
The train/ego appears to move along the line.
I reckon that everything makes sense ,everything fits into a logical pattern if we can  but see it.
And everthing has the possibility of being understood apart from I AM ,which is single and cannot be touched by the mind!

Subramanian.R

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Re: No cause and effect?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2008, 02:09:48 PM »
Cause and effect do not exist only for elevated souls.  For most
of us, the dyads exist.  These are continual, without any break and
not merely continuous like pig-iron rods connected with a 1 cm
gap in between in a railway line.  The cause brings effect and the
effect bring further cause. Promiscuity gave rise to AIDS, and AIDS
has given rise to medicines, and once these medicines become effective,
promiscuity will rise again and the effect would be a more dangerous
form of incurable disease!  These are called in Ramana Gita, Chapter
12, as Shiva-Sakti, operation and support, involment and withdrawal
etc.  Unity and Diversity are Matter and Energy.  I sometimes, think
Bhagavan had the jnana-maid within Himself and appeared as One
without a second.  But the One had within Him the second.     

mick hutchinson

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Re: No cause and effect?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 03:27:04 AM »
Or, cause and effect only appear to exist because of the way our minds percieve time.
What if all the material world is like one immense woven fabric cloth.
What is all the events that take place ,our lives for instance, are like threads woven together.
What if everything that happens is part of this immense fabric.
Good and evil
. Me and You ,
This and that
.All the wars
,All the suffering,
All the triunmphs .
All the failures .
Life and death.
Birth and rebirth
What if this fabric is the unchangeable nature of Brahman ,or one small aspect of it at least.
Peace

Subramanian.R

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Re: No cause and effect?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 03:57:55 PM »
Speaking further about cause and effect, Bhagavan Ramana adopted
three different standpoints, when He spoke about the nature of the
physical world.  He advocated all of them at different times, but it is
clear from His general comments on the subject, that He only considered
the first two theories, to be either true or useful. 
1. Ajata vada, the theory of non-causality.  This is an ancient Hindu
doctrine which states that the creation of the world never happened
at all.  It is a complete denial of the causality in the physical world. Ramana endorsed this view by saying that it is the jnani's experience,
that nothing ever comes into existence or ceases to be because the Self
alone exists as the sole unchanging reality.  It is a corallary of this
theory that time, space, cause and effect, the essential components
of all creation theories, exist only in the mind's of the anjnanis and the
experience of the Self reveals their non-existence.
2. Drishti-Srishti vada, when the questioners found the idea of Ajata
or non-causality impossible to assimilate, He would teach them that
the world comes into existence simultaneously with the appearance of
'I thought'  and it ceases to exist, when the 'I thought'  is absent.
3. The third is Srishti-Drishti vada, the theory of gradual creation.  This
is the common sense view, which holds that the world is an objective
reality governed by laws of cause and effect, which can be traced back
to single act of creation.  This is what all the Western philosophers, the Big Bang theory and the book of Genesis in Bible speak about.  Bhagavan
invoked these theories only when He was talking to questioners who are unwilling to accept the first two. Even then, He would usually point out that the theories should not be taken seriously, as they were only promulgated to satisfy the intellectual curiosity.
Bhagavan Ramana insisted that though D-S-V sounds perverse, the
serious seekers should be satisfied with it, becuase it is close approximation of the truth and it is the most beneficial to adopt if one
is seriously interested in realizing the Self. 
If you want to read elaborate accounts of these theories, please see
David Godman's "Be as you are", or, Mandkaya Upanishad and the
wonderful commentary of Gaudapada, called Gaudapada Karika.