Author Topic: Is the Body real?  (Read 4609 times)

mick hutchinson

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Is the Body real?
« on: January 29, 2007, 02:33:05 PM »
What I reckon is...
What we experience as the body, is a picture of the body which is manufactured out of consciuosness by the mind.
So the answer to the question is both yes and no!
If the body was ONLY the creation of  the mind of the individual, then it woild dissapear when it dies.
This does not happen! Others can observe the continued existence of the body when the spirit  no longer is connected to it.
However the picture of the body disapears from the spirit upon death.
Therefore the reality of the body is similar to the reality of the picure on a TV screen .The picture is not the reality that it is a picture of.
There are ways pf proving this more or less conclisively! But unfortuneately they are mostli illegal.

dedhed

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Re: Is the Body real?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2007, 05:44:23 AM »
What do we mean by real? Think about this, because language has caused us to accept this term without fully identifying what we mean by it.
Let us look at some other points first, before we go further into this. (I wish I had more time to go into this, because one could easily write a book on this subject, and still not cover all the implications.)
When we look at an object, what occurs? Light reflecting from the object strikes the eyes and cause a signal to be sent to the brain, whch creates the image of that object. We perceive the object as having a certain color. But is this color intrinsic to the object, or is it the creation of the interaction between consciousness and the physical brain? Science tells us that what we perceive as color is a wavelength of visible light.  So, the only information that the lightwave is carrying is it's wavelength and frequency of vibration.  There is nothing intrinsically 'red' or 'blue' about this information.
When we touch an object, it seems solid to us.  But physics tells us that if we go down to the subatomic level, there is nothing solid there.  Only the mutually repulsive force of what we call electrons keeps us from falling through the floor.  And the subatomic particles themselves?  They seem to have no independent existence, but exist only as an inter-relationship with everything else.  In isolation, they exist only as probabilities of interaction.
  But probabilities, like consciousness, are not a physical thing.  Yet both seem to be the basis that the physical universe is built upon.
  So is the universe dependent upon the consciousness of the individual?  Apparently not, though you could build a case that since everyone's entire knowledge of the universe is based upon your individual consciousness, it would be far easier to defend this viewpoint than the independent existence of the universe.  But it seems far more likely that the universe exists within the universal consciousness which we are all a part of.
  So in the end, it seems that what we mean by reality is the contents of Universal Mind.  And to ask if this mind has an independent existence is the wrong question.  It does not fall into the categories of existence or non-existence. Everything exists within it, including time and space.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 07:58:34 AM by dedhed »

mick hutchinson

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Re: Is the Body real?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2007, 07:08:50 PM »
Dedhed
Yes thats more or less what I think too.
What we percieve as colour is actuly divsion of consciuousness. The mind creating the experience of colour out of consciousness.
What I was trying to get at was this issue of independant existence.
Lsd and other true psychedelic drugs cause the image of the world to change and distort. But no other person perceieves this. Also after death other people percieve the decay of the body. These two things must lead us the conclusion that the material Universe has some sort of existence outside the mind of the observer! And we all to some extent percieve the same objects.
So , i think you are right ,it is the Universal mind .The ultimate stuff of the universe is consciousness . Subatomic particles and quasars ,all the galaxies ,all Universes..
Probabilities ? If as they say its all predetermined ,then maybe its all like a cosmic DVD playing ,within the Universal mind.
Like when you watch a movie there apear to be events ,and cause and effect ,but really its all just the one thing and the laser [ the moment NOW ] plays the events in sequence making them appear to happen .
So seeing the Akashic [spellcheck ]cliche for some thing is to absorb all the information about it simultaneously. Past present and future all as one .
Brilliant talk to you dedhed
Mick
PS
Then theres that experience just outside Samadhi where the Universe is percieved within one.
I went into a local shop and the assitant said  "Have you tried the Holy herb of the Mastecs ? [legal] I could see the entire Universe within me"
. He has never read any Yoga philosophy as far as know . This ties in with ,; page 106 ,chapterXVIII Self-realisation , instructions to F H Humphries . By B V NARASIMHA SWAMI . The quote goes.......
Salutations to the feet of the guru Sri Dakshinamurti, who sees within himself the entire Universe ,which resembles the image  of a city in a mirror. Which appears to be outside of him just as objects seen in a dream are outside the dreamer ,but which merges into himself in the state of realisation-for then he sees the self alone and not the objects he dreamt of."
Its seems that the Cosmic mind has the Universe within it independant of sense impressiions
This book seems to have been signed by Ramana Mahrishi himself!!!!! Its from the ashram in the 1930s!!!

Subramanian.R

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Re: Is the Body real?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2008, 12:49:38 PM »
"Material universe has got substance outside the mind of
the observer".  It is okay.  But is it true?  Sanskrit employs
two words, Satya and Mithya, the Real and the seemingly
real.  Material universe is continued to be observed by "other
observers", even after I die.  Imagaine a situtation, when all
human beings in this world die simultaneously in some inter-
galactic war, will the material universe be there still? If so,
for whom?  Hence, it is only for the observer, that universe is
real, or relatively real and no universe exists apart from the
observer.  Bhagavan says," that the Real is only Swarupa.  The
jagat (world or universe), jeeva (the soul or individual, the single
I) and Eswara (God outside) are all imaginations, like silver
in the oyster shell.  Jagat is I-I,  jeeva is I-I and Eawara is I-I.
 All are Shiva, the I-I." (Who am I?).

Further Roger Penrose, Richard Feynaman, Stephen Hawking (?) says that if you become smaller than a subatomic particle, you can walk through the wall!  This has in fact, been done by some Saiva Siddhantis!

mick hutchinson

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Re: Is the Body real?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2008, 06:54:49 AM »
Subramanian.R
What I was trying to say is.
Most definately what we experience as " The World " is actually a picture within us manufactured by the mind from sense impressions.
Sensory information travels up the nerves to the brain where ,i Quote Ramana " It gets cordinated ". So it's like the mind creates the world from a synthesis of sense impresions ,Which are interpreted by the mind using archetypes . Fixed modes pf thought .Friend ,enemy ,atractive ,repulsive ,dangerous ,are all archetypes . What is always so amazing about Ramana is how he gets so much into so few words .The book "Who am I "sums up the whole mind succinctly and perfectly.
However
He did admit that the material world is real somewhere in David Godmans book ,I think that he always directed people to self inquiry not to questions about the reallity of the world . However I think that what we believe is the world is a construct of the mind as he said but I think that there is some sort of existence coresponding to the material world it's just that all we know of it is from a picture within us contructed by the mind which isn't real in the same way that a picture on a TV screen isn't the world that it depicts.
Until Self Realisation you have to deal with the world as it comes

Subramanian.R

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Re: Is the Body real?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2008, 11:30:11 AM »
Dear mick,  I quite agree with you.  What I was trying to explain
is that  Sankara, in order to satisfy the "world is real" dualists, said
that the world is "real"  but only "seemingly real" (mithya), till one
is realized, where after this will also disappear.    Bhagavan
also said that when  a film-negative is exposed to the sun, it will
not take any other image. If one is self-realized (that is exposed
to the Sun of suns, Brahman), he will not gather any other image.  The
Seer becomes the Screen!  In this context, some astro-physicsts
believe that there is no one universe, but a di-verse, and every thing
that happens in this universe, is happening in the same point of time
and space in the di-verse also!  Bhagavan has also said that " He lives
simulataneously in twenty lokas and is doing  the same thing!"  When
someone asked, "whether Indraloka, Chandraloka, Kailasa and Vaikunta
-- are all real?"  Bhagavan said, "Yes, as you are all sitting before me,
some others are also sitting before someone there!"  Arunachala-Siva.