Author Topic: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS  (Read 17655 times)

mick hutchinson

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REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« on: January 28, 2007, 12:21:40 AM »
I got this idea from repeatedly reading instructions to Sivarakasam Pillai.
Why are things the way they are?
If all that exists is ONE ,
If you divide ONE you get TWO ,
Divide again FOUR
And again EIGHT.
And so on.
So this means that numbers and mathematics were NOT CREATED!!
They are just a simple fact of the nature of reality!
From this we might deduce that all of matter and the very existence of the Universe and all its laws are the same.
No matter many universes there might be , no matter how many sub-atomic particles are found ,they are ALL are result of the division of ONE. And the ONE is ALL!
So all that exists is the nature of REALITY ,uncreated ,eternal unchanging and unchangeable!!

mick hutchinson

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2007, 03:49:22 AM »
ALSO
Another concept which seems to explain existence.
What would exixts if nithing at all existed?
No stars no planets.
No matter .
No space .
No time.
A VOID ,in which there was nothing.
Well the VOID would still exist!!
Therefore EXISTENCE IS!
There is no such thing as non existence!
I mean what would there be if there was non exixtence?
There is no such thing as non being!
One cannot even concieve of non exixstence.
I dont mean the non existence of the material Universes.
............................................................
And as consciousness is known to be.
Then consciuosness is what IS!!
Nothing could exist if there was not anything to be consciuos of it!
Only consciuosness exists!

mick hutchinson

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2007, 03:57:53 AM »
So
If the previous two posts are true.
Then.
All that happens,
All percieved events.
All [whether real or not] Universes and beings living within the Universes.
All these exist as a consequence of the Nature of reality.

captmj

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 12:06:35 AM »
Is there  a necessity to know the nature of reality...why cant we keep it simple...THAT is what IS...Let IT be
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 12:29:59 AM by captmj »

mick hutchinson

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 06:18:54 PM »
Captmi
1;All over the world people fight and kill each other for conflicting ideologies.
Crazy ideas about the nature of God and the nature of reality.
2;The computer with which we comunicate and the science tha created it are part of the investigation into the nature of physical reality.
Surley it must be right to have concepts on the mental plane which get as near as is possible to the truth, rather than some of the ideas which are around ,which are close to complete madness.
The constant refining and updating of the mental and verbal ideas to get them closer to the Ultimate Truth must surely be a good thing? And might help others who follow the path. Isnt this just what all books on this subject do?
Peace!!!
Mick H.

captmj

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2007, 09:21:53 PM »
Books after all are views....ideologies are mine, yours and theirs...Baghvan was many times asked/ hinted why He is so quite when all of India was burning. His answer was always the same...improve our own attitude.
Research into Religion , nature of God, heaven and hell has not made us any better. As on Dec 2006 , the scientist are trying to solve BIG BANG. Concept is a thought. Imagine the whole world in deep sleep...then during that sleep....there is no world...a concept isn't it . So very temporary.
I am who I am... all the refining and updating on mental plane leaves me stranded. Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni was a refined man...well versed in all that books had to offer , yet he knew something was not right. And he got his answer.
I can help a blind person to cross the road.... I surely cannot help if he blames the whole world for his darkness.
I have to change my attitude...I have to unlearn and start all over again....and for this I need lot of LOVE and Faith... Bhakti...Devotion...

mick hutchinson

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2007, 04:28:09 AM »
captmj
I suggest you have a look at David Godmans book "Be as you are"
You wil see that Ramana always answered sincere questions intelligently and lucidly.
And he used metaphors from the modern world!! For instance his likening of the percieved world to the picture on a movie screen and saying that it is like the audience AND the actors being on the screen simultaneously !! Look at his replies to al the questions about the nature of things.
You yourself are using thought to comunicate and are constantly forming concepts as you relate to material life.
Everything has its place and what might loosely be called purpose.Without the process of conceptualisation you wouldnt know anything at all !!
If you look at the world around you its possible to see ,in a quite practical way that it is a picture WITHIN you. As Ramana said there is no inside and outside for the self. Certain psychedelic drugs ,most notably LSD cause perception of the world to be distorted ,making it plain that what we percieve to be the world is no more than a picture within us ! My one experience of Nirvikapala Samadhi and the Kundalini was in 1971  on LSD.
So these statements that the world isnt real are actualy true!! In the sense that what we percieve as the world is ,I qoute Ramana ,"cordinated sense impressions" ,
The picture of the world is created from cordinated sense impressions .The qualities that we experience ,pleasant ,bad ,good ,nice nasty ,these are all the mind. Astral energy made from Sat Chit Ananda. The division [apparent ] of the Self into Duality gives rise to the mind and all its machinations. So I observe this within ,in daily life. I recognise the process of mind as much as I am able.
The mind is nescessary otherwise no forward progress is possible.
Improve your attitude ? Knowing the truth at all levels possible IS improving your attitude!
Peace
Mick!!!

captmj

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2007, 12:24:29 PM »
 :)...Hello Mick
There is no conflict...only varied interpretation. It used to happen right in front of Baghavan.

Did I reject concepts...I dont think so. I am attempting to separate the ego I from the concepts...Yes I agree the world will be as long as there is impressions and concepts. Statements that world is untrue are statements... when the untruth is preceived, no statement will be necessary.
To me Baghvan is silence...
As Ramana says..mind turned inwards is pure and pure mind is Atma or truth ...whatever the name is...
And only by improving the attitude will lead me to truth at all levels or for that matter beyond levels..turiyattita.
Till that time I need mind to improve my mind, material mind has to unlearn and turn within.
Yours In Baghvan

mick hutchinson

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2007, 02:49:05 PM »
captmj
Thats right .its what I meant.
Varied interpretation ,different interpretations suit different personalities. It must be a good thing if things can be seen to make sense!
For me Ramana was/is the greatest guru of all time.
Silence is hard to achieve.
I get it that the I thought isnt the self ,that if the I thought is a thought then there would seem to have to be an experiencer of the I thought .Also that this experiencer isnt real ,it doesent exist. I sort of get it . I guess thats the limit of where the mind can go!
But I do try!!
Peace ,Love and Understanding.
Mick,

mick hutchinson

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2007, 03:39:53 PM »
captmj
Also what I was trying to say was ,everything makes sense ,everthing is part of the pattern.
Without that you get "the life  of Brian" If youve ever seen that film!!
mick

captmj

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2007, 11:34:29 PM »
No Mick ....havent seen the film...will when i get the chance.

I am almost on a flight to Lagos and waiting at the lounge with Nan Yar in my pocket....well you started the thread and it was good. So here I am checking out what you had to say next...I am reading question 21 of the dialogue..
Sivaprakasam Pillai : Is enquiry into scriptural teaching necessary for an earnest seeker ?

Bagahvan : As there is no use in analysing the garbage collected , so it is with an earnest seeker who is searching for his-self,.There is no use for a person who wants to understand his -self , instead of discarding the ignorance that hides his- self, does research on his-self. This prapancham...crudely translated in English as "world "  :)... ( for want of better description) should be perceived as a dream...

Now then is it necessary for us to analyse nature of reality :)

Swami Dayananda in his commentary on Upadesa Saram says...thoughts are of 2 types ...mechanical and purposeful....
mechanical thoughts are destructive ....so lets avoid mechanical thoughts....a mind over which there is no control is a monkey...

In Baghvan

mick hutchinson

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2007, 02:27:23 PM »
captmj
The post is ABOUT holding onto the perception of the world as a dream!!
By realising that perception off the world is a picture manufactured by the mind out of cosciuossness.
Thats why I started the post.
I say to myself that is isnt real ,that what Im seeing is an illusion .that the experiences that Ive had show me this.
Otherwise I forget and start taking the ups and downs of material life seriously!!!
And if I can get it into a more concise verbal form  ,or use a more modern metaphor it makes conversation with anyone else who is interested easier!!!!
I talk for a living!!
Peace ,love and understanding
Mick!!!

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2007, 10:03:24 PM »
silence is hard to achieve .... mick

the truth is it takes energy to think thoughts , and silence requires no energy at all .
if what you want is truth , you will not find it in reason . following thoughts leads away from truth .

simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it

mick hutchinson

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2007, 02:56:20 AM »
beloved abstract
Tell me did you think when you repllied to the post?
How can there be a discusion forum without thoughts?
Silence takes no enegy for Who?
Strange how people here ,instead of discusng the topic give wise advice. I wonder what is the cause of this?
Be careful that you do not make a dogma out of what should be an honest quest .That is the way of religion ,and look at all the trouble that causes!
Peace!

mick hutchinson

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Re: REASON FOR THE WAY OF THINGS
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2007, 03:30:11 AM »
AND
Please correct me if Im wrong ,but It seems to me that silence takes many ,many lifetimes of effort and even with that effort it needs some grace too.
Stetching around you the infinite Universe ,living beings ,seemingly without end and not many of them are Silent.
Nor on this little planet ,very very few have there ever ever been such as Ramana Mahirishi!  Silence no effort for this great and compassionate being ,but for a lowly being such as I its a **** ******* big effort!!!!!!!
Mick