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General topics / Re: Reality and Fact
« Last post by srkudai on November 16, 2017, 10:46:37 AM »
Dear Shivam ji,

"I am inner consciousness that remains free and untouched" ... is a statement of knowledge, not the knowledge. this is information. one needs not the information but the insight.
its like saying love heals the lover. that is information. its ok to have information, but that does not release.
Another example is : everything is impermanent. this is said for ages, but if one understood it truely one is free. so information is not insight.

thats the reason why you genuinely ask "how does this help me" -- thats a honest person's expression that this remains information.

"This sound promising" is another way of saying the same thing Shivam ji.

The good part is the honesty , if you are open to it, it can be explored. the point here is that one cannot start with where Ramana was. We need to start where we are. We feel pain and suffering ... we need to acknowledge this and start here. we cannot say "pain is unreal" because Ramana said so ... that was Ramana's reality not ours. We need to discover that pain is unreal and then the information that pain is unreal becomes our insight our knowledge. and this is what i call is the vision of vedanta which we need to grasp - and its easy to grasp too.

"if it is false why should it perish ? 
if it is real it cannot perish"

Dear Sri Udai, do you really not understand what Sri Bhagwan meant by the word 'perish' in the holy Utterance "The false 'I' must perish", and do you mean to say that you need to be explained what really the word meant?
if it is false why should it perish ? :)
if it is real it cannot perish
"When you are in the sea searching for the water ... what one needs is not "doing" , but "knowing"
its not really about "doing something or getting rid of something""

"The problem here is of missing the Truth. Where is water ?
well, here is water, it has to be made explicit and clear"?

Dear Sri Udai,

What else do you think Sri Bhagwan's Atma-vichara is? This is exactly what Vichara facilitates, as it were. What needs, therefore, to done in my view, is to do Enquiry till the very end. Then, as Sri Bhagwan has repeatedly said that such questions (in the above quote) as you are raising wouldn't arise at all.   

"The problem is of not knowing the Truth, not of being away from the truth.
We doubt that we are right now in the embrace of God. imagine accepting this ... imagine we have agreed ... what more needs to be done now?"

Dear friend, this is not a question of my acceptance or agreement alone. If what you say is accepted in a general sense, there is a danger, which Sri Bhagwan has Himself highlighted and warned against. Remember, even the meditation of the form 'I Am the Self' prematurely has not been enjoined, except in Sri Annamalai Swami's case, by Sri Bhagwan. 

Thus Spake Bhagwan Sri Ramana:
"Without understanding it aright, people think that the Guru teaches the disciple something like 'TATVAMASI' and that the disciple realises 'I am Brahman'. In their ignorance they conceive of Brahman as something more huge and powerful than anything else. With a limited 'I' the man is so stuck up and wild. What will be the case if the same 'I' grows up enormous? He will be enormously ignorant and foolish! This false 'I' must perish. Its annihilation is the fruit of Guru seva. Realisation is eternal and it is not newly brought about by the Guru. He helps in the removal of ignorance. That is all."

Heard it, dear friend, Sri Udai? The false 'I' must perish. 

Thanks very much.
General topics / Re: What is truth? Who can know?
« Last post by Ravi.N on November 16, 2017, 10:14:19 AM »
The Means of Happiness continued...

HH: It is only this. Merely cease to submit yourself to that antecedent trouble.
D: How can we do that?
HH: Man is and remains healthy when he refuses to submit himself to anything which may cause sickness. Is it not so?
D: Yes.
HH: Similarly, man can be happy by refusing to submit himself to anything which may disturb his mental equilibrium and make him unhappy. It is only an application of the maxim that prevention is better than cure. For calling yourself clean, it is not necessary that you dip your hands in mire and then wash it off.
D: I now understand that the happiness which results from attraction or repulsion is not real happiness. Real happiness is only that which is the concomitant of mental equipoise unrelated to any attraction or repulsion.
HH: Quite so.
D: But, how can we acquire and retain such a mental equipoise in the midst of this vast universe of things which either attract or repel?
HH: Anyhow, this is certainly a more practical method than the one of trying to exhaust the inexhaustible store of things, desirable and undesirable.
D: This method may be foolish but the other does not seem to be practical.
HH: Why not? Suppose you have about twenty articles in your room every one of which is likely to distract you by its very sight. Which is the more practical method, to prepare cases for enveloping every one of them or to shut your eyes?
D: Certainly, the latter is easier.
HH: Similarly, it is impossible for you to regulate, modify, annihilate or create at your pleasure the infinite things of the universe which are likely to disturb you. But you can so regulate your own mind that it may gradually cease to be disturbed by them. This is quite within your competence. Your forefathers were happy, not because they had more objects of pleasure or less causes of trouble, but because they were able to retain their mental equilibrium, which gave them rest, peace and contentment and, therefore, happiness. They did not depend upon outside things to make them happy, nor did they concede to outside things the capacity to make them unhappy. Their feeling of rest and peace, contentment and happiness, was normal, natural and healthy and, therefore, lasting. You must also cultivate that feeling if you want to be happy. Such a feeling is born and ingrained in the Brahmana especially, and if he neglects it and seeks happiness in the outside world, he is seriously impairing his chances of getting it again in the next birth, for God will be quite justified in withholding a gift which the donee does not appreciate at its proper value when he has it with him. Never let go your birthright or svabhava of contentment and never give the go-by to your sva-dharma or duty. Everything will right itself in due course. Make honest and sincere attempt to regain and retain your brahmaniam in the firm faith that God is ever with you to help you.
D: We shall try our best, but these happen to be very bad days for the Brahmanas.
HH: When did the bad days begin? You must bear that also in your mind. They began when the Brahmanas swerved from their achara and Dharma and entered the field of competition in the pursuit of worldly things. They forgot that they were most ungratefully misusing the heritage of ages. The others, who were left behind the Brahmanas in this race, first looked upon them with admiration and later on with envy and now with hatred. Let the Brahmanas withdraw from this race they will once again regain and command the respect which is their due. They commanded respect before, not because they were richer or stronger than others, but because of their contentment, which made them happier than the richest and because of their Dharma, which made them
stronger than the strongest. The so-called bad days are therefore only of our own making. We can at any moment put an end to them, so far as every one of us is concerned, by reverting to the simple faith and the upright conduct, the religious fervour and the peaceful contentment of our fathers. I think that the bad days will turn out to be really useful and not after all bad, if they but make the Brahmanas realise the depth of their fall from their true ideal and induce them to make honest endeavour to recover it

General topics / Re: Saiva Canons of Tiru Navukkarasar. Canons 4,5, and 6:
« Last post by Subramanian.R on November 16, 2017, 10:08:41 AM »
Tirup Pazhanam:

Verse  1:

சொன்மாலை பயில்கின்ற குயிலினங்காள் சொல்லீரே
பன்மாலை வரிவண்டு பண்மிழற்றும் பழனத்தான்
முன்மாலை நகுதிங்கண் முகிழ்விளங்கு முடிச்சென்னிப்
பொன்மாலை மார்பனென் புதுநலமுண் டிகழ்வானோ.

Flocks of Indian cuckoos which practice the order of words without ceasing, will you please tell Siva, the god who is in Pazhaṉam where many rows of bees which have lines on them, hum softly like melodies.  Will Siva, who wears a golden garland on his chest and has a head in which the matted locks, coiled into a crown on which the crescent moon that rises in the early part of the evening is shining, neglect me after enjoying my fresh beauty, after my coming of age?  He will not.

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: Saiva Canons of Tiru Navukkarasar. Canons 4,5, and 6:
« Last post by Subramanian.R on November 16, 2017, 10:04:10 AM »
Verse 10:

மாப்பிணை தழுவிய மாதொர் பாகத்தன்
பூப்பிணை திருந்தடி பொருந்தக் கைதொழ
நாப்பிணை தழுவிய நமச்சி வாயப்பத்
தேத்தவல் லார்தமக் கிடுக்க ணில்லையே.

To worship with joined hands in the appropriate manner the perfect fact which wear flower garlands of Siva, who has on his left half a lady and a young deer.  There will be definitely no affliction to those who are capable of praising Siva, with ten verses extolling the greatness which is united inseparable with the tongue.  (There is no reference to Rāvaṇan.)

General Padigam concluded.

Arunachala Siva.
General topics / Re: Saiva Canons of Tiru Navukkarasar. Canons 4,5, and 6:
« Last post by Subramanian.R on November 16, 2017, 10:00:48 AM »
Verse  9:

முன்னெறி யாகிய முதல்வன் முக்கணன்
தன்னெறி யேசர ணாத றிண்ணமே
அந்நெறி யேசென்றங் கடைந்த வர்க்கெலாம்
நன்னெறி யாவது நமச்சி வாயவே.

The first of all things and who is the oldest path and has three eyes, it is definite that his path is the refuge for all souls.  Namasivāya is the salvation for all those who reached god, having gone in that path. 

Arunachala Siva.

General topics / Re: What is truth? Who can know?
« Last post by Ravi.N on November 16, 2017, 10:00:24 AM »
Thanks...your observation is quite correct...I am copying the small preface here:

These passages from the book "Dialogues with The Guru" provide answers to many nagging questions that trouble the individual as well as the society. While answering generic questions, Sri Acarya, induces one to reflect over the true meaning of Sanatana Dharma and application of its principles to modern life. These passages are translation of talks with His Holiness Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati Swamigal, compiled by Sri R. Krishnaswamy Iyer.

I must say that the compiler has done an excellent job .
This small collection of talks is available as a free download :

Sri Chandrasekara Bharati mahaswamiji was mostly self absorbed and rarely spoke...but when he did speak ,the clarity and conviction drove the message home inexorably...this is the mark  of a sage...truly a jagadguru in every sense of the term.
General topics / Re: Saiva Canons of Tiru Navukkarasar. Canons 4,5, and 6:
« Last post by Subramanian.R on November 16, 2017, 09:55:17 AM »
Verse 8:

இல்லக விளக்கது விருள்கெ டுப்பது
சொல்லக விளக்கது சோதி யுள்ளது
பல்லக விளக்கது பலருங் காண்பது
நல்லக விளக்கது நமச்சி வாயவே.

It is inner light inside the body, destroys ignorance elucidates the meaning of words which are inside them.  It has the light divine.  As the souls are innumerable, lights them internally. It stands to be seen by all religions without their knowledge.
It is the lamp that shines inside the form of spiritual knowledge that Mantram is Namasivāya.

Arunachala Siva.
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