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General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Last post by atmavichar100 on September 18, 2018, 04:04:31 PM »
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DIALOGUE ON SELF-ENQUIRY
Dear devotees, I happened to find the the following conversation which comes from the diary of a devotee called Sri Yalamanchili who met Sri Bhagwan in 1928 and had a discussion with him on Self-inquiry. It was published in Arunachala Ramana in February 1982:
Question: How to realize the Atman?
Bhagavan: Whose Atman?
Question: Mine.
Bhagavan: Then you yourself have to do it.
Question: I am unable to do and know it.
Bhagavan: To whom is it not known?
Question: To myself.
Bhagavan: Try to know who is that 'myself'.
Question: That is what you have to tell.
Bhagavan: [Smiling] It seems you have come here to test me. Will it really benefit you if I tell you what you are? Will you be satisfied if I just tell you? Ask yourself 'Who am I?' After questioning you will get the answer within yourself, and that will satisfy you.
Question: I have been doing sadhana for a long time but in vain.
Bhagavan: You will have to search for 'I' [aham]. Then, the apparent 'I' will vanish.
Question: Please give me the details of the process.
Sri Bhagawan: Mind is, in reality, a bundle of thoughts. And every thought springs from the 'I'. So, it is the first thought. Instead of dwelling on the secondary thoughts, the seeker has to concentrate on the primary thought, which is this 'I'.
Question: What is the difference between a thought and the 'I'?
Sri Bhagawan: Thoughts are not independent. They have a standing only when they are associated with the 'I'. But the 'I' can stand by itself. Actually, this 'I' is also not independent. In its turn, it is supported by the Atman.
Again and again, it rises from the Self and sinks there. It subsides in deep sleep and it comes out again in waking. We have to find out the place of its birth with an introverted vision.
Question: I have been questioning in this way but getting no answer.
Sri Bhagawan: If you ask this question with zeal and proceed inward, the false 'I' disappears and the real 'I' emerges.
Question: What is the real ?I??
Sri Bhagawan: This is what we call 'soul' or 'God'.
Question: When I start the inquiry numerous thoughts come in the way and obstruct me. When I eliminate one, another appears in its place. It seems there is no end.
Sri Bhagawan: I am not telling you to grapple with the thoughts. There will be no end if you do it that way. Here lies the secret: there is the ?I?, the source of all thoughts, and we have to catch it and see from where it arises. This is absolutely necessary. As a dog traces his master by following the track of his smell, you have to follow the inner development of the 'I' to reach its source, which is the [true] soul.
Question: From this, I understand that one can reach the source by one's own effort.
Sri Bhagawan: It is by the grace of God that you come to desire to know yourself. This desire to know yourself is itself a clear sign of the Atman's grace. So, there is grace already working as the source of your effort. Grace is not an external quality of the Self but its very nature. It abides in your Heart, pulling you inward into itself. The only task you must do is turn your attention inward and search the source of 'I'. This is the only personal effort we have to put in. That is why [one can say that] where there is no grace, there is no desire at all for the quest for the Self.
Question: Is there no need for a Guru then?
Sri Bhagawan: When it is necessary the Self itself will take the form of an external Guru and initiate you into the process. He will push you in and hand you over to the inner Guru who is already there. Finally, the Atman, which abides in the Heart, embraces you there.
Question: Now, may I know sir, what is the distinguishing feature of this method?
Sri Bhagawan: The sense of 'I' is always present in us. So, it is relatively easy to find the Self through this 'I', which is an emanation of the Self. Further, if, before the ?I? ramifies into many forms, we put our attention via this method on the parent-form of the 'I', this makes for the direct dissolution of the 'I' in its source.
Otherwise, if you begin the inquiry when the 'I' has already taken many forms, you will be swept away by its illusive power and never reach its source.
Question: The Self is nameless and formless. How then can we find it by the questioning of this 'I' that has a name and a form?
Sri Bhagavan: The false 'I' or ego stands between the soul and the body, and connects them. Now, soul is conscious while the body is inert. The false 'I' binds them together. So, it is also called the knot between matter and spirit [chit-jada-granthi].




Dear devotees, Sri Yalamanchili at the end of this profound conversation has observed that from this we see that the ego or the false 'I' has its feet in the Self and its head in the body. Therefore, by enquiring into the origin of the ego, we can easily proceed and reach the formless Self.

Will you like make any comment on the above conversation?


Pranam,
  Anil
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General topics / Re: Saiva Canon 7 of Saint Sundaramurti Swamigal:
« Last post by Subramanian.R on September 18, 2018, 09:16:50 AM »
Tirup Paramkundram:

Verse  1:


கோத்திட்டையுங் கோவலுங் கோயில்கொண்டீர்
    உமைக்கொண்டுழல் கின்றதோர் கொல்லைச்சில்லைச்
சேத்திட்டுக்குத் தித்தெரு வேதிரியுஞ்
    சிலபூதமும் நீரும் திசைதிசையன
சோத்திட்டுவிண் ணோர்பல ருந்தொழநும்
    மரைக்கோவணத் தோடொரு தோல்புடைசூழ்ந்
தார்த்திட்டதும் பாம்புகைக் கொண்டதும்பாம்
    படிகேள்உமக் காட்செய அஞ்சுதுமே.


Montane coppice in arid wild is your tricky temple, O, Lord!
A silly bull in hilly bends does carry you,
through a a road it roams! Goblins ghoulish cries boom
as surround sound! Your Highness,
humble Devas beg ever before in pretty piety forsooth!
With codpiece on waist, hide irregular put on,
a cobra to belt below, your arm charms another hood!
We fear to near you and do serve!

Arunachala Siva.
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General topics / Re: Saiva Canon 7 of Saint Sundaramurti Swamigal:
« Last post by Subramanian.R on September 18, 2018, 09:10:53 AM »
Verse  10:

காரூர்புன லெய்திக்கரை
    கல்லித்திரைக் கையால்
பாரூர்புக ழெய்தித்திகழ்
    பன்மாமணி யுந்திச்
சீரூர்பெண்ணைத் தென்பால்வெண்ணெய்
    நல்லூரருட் டுறையுள்
ஆரூரன்எம் பெருமாற்காள்
    அல்லேன்என லாமே.


Receiving the water that falls from the clouds,
eroding the banks with the waves which are like hands,
getting the fame that spreads throughout the world,
pushing several big and glittering precious stones.
Is it proper on my part having been a slave to my Lord who dwells in the temple Aruḷtuṟai in Veṇṇainallūr on the southern bank of the river Peṇṇai whose reputation spreads everywhere,
now to counter-argue that I am not your slave?

Padigam on Tiru Vennainallur completed.

Arunachala Siva.
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General topics / Re: Saiva Canon 7 of Saint Sundaramurti Swamigal:
« Last post by Subramanian.R on September 18, 2018, 09:07:06 AM »
Verse  9:

மழுவாள்வலன் ஏந்தீமறை
    யோதீமங்கை பங்கா
தொழுவாரவர் துயராயின
    தீர்த்தல்லுன தொழிலே
செழுவார்பெண்ணைத் தென்பால்வெண்ணெய்
    நல்லூரருட் டுறையுள்
அழகாஉனக் காளாய்இனி
    அல்லேன்என லாமே.


Siva who holds the weapon of a battle-axe on the right side,
who chanted the Vēdas!
He who has a lady as a half!
The beautiful god who dwells in the temple Aruḷtuṟai in Veṇṇainallūr on the southern bank of the fertile river Peṇṇai!
Your function is to remove the sufferings of those who worship you with joined hands.
Therefore you came voluntarily to admit me as your protege;
without knowing that, and denying the fact that I was your slave before, is it proper now on my part to counter-argue that I am not your slave?

Arunachala Siva.
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General topics / Re: Saiva Canon 7 of Saint Sundaramurti Swamigal:
« Last post by Subramanian.R on September 18, 2018, 09:02:48 AM »
Verse  8:

ஏற்றார்புரம் மூன்றும்மெரி
    யுண்ணச்சிலை தொட்டாய்
தேற்றாதன சொல்லித்திரி
    வேனோசெக்கர் வான்நீர்
ஏற்றாய்பெண்ணைத் தென்பால்வெண்ணெய்
    நல்லூரருட் டுறையுள்
ஆற்றாய்உனக் காளாய்இனி
    அல்லேன்என லாமே.


Siva who is the right path and who dwells in the temple Aruḷtuṟai in Veṇṇainallūr on the southern bank of the river Peṇṇai!
You destroyed by discharging an arrow from the bow for the fire to consume all the three cities of those who opposed you in battle.
You received the water of the celestial Ganga on your matted locks, which is like the red sky.
Speaking such words as revealing my ignorance of your greatness shall I wander without any benefit to me?
According to that wandering nature, having been your slave before, is it proper for me now to counter-argue that I am not your slave?

Arunachala Siva.


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General topics / Re: Saiva Canon 7 of Saint Sundaramurti Swamigal:
« Last post by Subramanian.R on September 18, 2018, 07:47:46 AM »
Verse  7:


ஊனாய்உயி ரானாய்உட
    லானாய்உல கானாய்
வானாய்நில னானாய்கட
    லானாய்மலை யானாய்
தேனார்பெண்ணைத் தென்பால்வெண்ணெய்
    நல்லூரருட் டுறையுள்
ஆனாய்உனக் காளாய்இனி
    அல்லேன்என லாமே.


Siva who always remains in the temple Aruḷtuṟai, without leaving it, in Veṇṇainallūr on the southern bank of the river Peṇṇai, which is full of honey!
You are the life in the bodies, which knows all things and are those bodies in which life exists.
You are the world.
You are the sky, the earth, the ocean and the mountain.
Having been your slave before is it proper on my part to counter-argue now that I am not your slave?

Arunachala Siva.
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General topics / Re: Saiva Canon 7 of Saint Sundaramurti Swamigal:
« Last post by Subramanian.R on September 18, 2018, 07:43:35 AM »
Verse  6:


தண்ணார்மதி சூடீதழல்
    போலுந்திரு மேனீ
எண்ணார்புர மூன்றும்எரி
    யுண்ணநகை செய்தாய்
மண்ணார்பெண்ணைத் தென்பால்வெண்ணெய்
    நல்லூரருட் டுறையுள்
அண்ணாஉனக் காளாய்இனி
    அல்லேன்என லாமே.

Siva who wears the cool crescent moon,
who has a holy form which is red like fire.
You laughed to make the fire consume all the three cities of the enemies who did not esteem you.
The elderly god in the temple in Aruḷtuṟai in Veṇṇainallūr on the southern bank of the river Peṇṇai which cleans the sins of those who bathe.
Having been your slave before.
can I counter-argue now that I am not your slave?
Is it proper on my part?

Arunachala Siva.


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General topics / Re: Saiva Canon 7 of Saint Sundaramurti Swamigal:
« Last post by Subramanian.R on September 18, 2018, 07:39:36 AM »
Verse  5:

பாதம்பணி வார்கள்பெறு
    பண்டம்மது பணியா
யாதன்பொரு ளானேன்அறி
    வில்லேன்அரு ளாளா
தாதார்பெண்ணைத் தென்பால்வெண்ணெய்
    நல்லூரருட் டுறையுள்
ஆதீஉனக் காளாய்இனி
    அல்லேன்என லாமே.


The first cause of all things who dwells in the temple Aruḷtuṟai in Veṇṇainallūr on the southern bank of the river Peṇṇai which is full of minerals!
God who is full of grace!
Having been a slave to you before.
Is it proper on my part to counter-argue now, that I am not your slave?
I have no intelligence.
Therefore I am an ignorant person.
I am the meaning of the word "Ataṉ!"
though I am such an unfit person, please grant me the boons that people who worship your feet, receive without despising me.

Arunachala Siva.
10
Disciple: Is Self-experience possible for the mind, whose nature is constant change?

Sri Bhagwan: Since sattva guna (the constituent of prakriti which makes for purity, intelligence, etc.) is the nature of mind, and since the mind is pure and undefiled like ether, what is called mind is, in truth, of the nature of knowledge. When it stays in that natural (i.e. pure) state, it has not even the name 'mind'. It is only the erroneous knowledge which mistakes one for another that is called mind. What was (originally) the pure sattva mind, of the nature of pure knowledge, forgets its knowledge-nature on account of nescience, gets transformed into the world under the influence of tamo guna (i.e. the constituent of prakriti which makes for dullness, inertness, etc.), being under the influence of rajo guna (i.e. the constituent of prakriti which makes for activity, passions, etc.), imagines 'I am the body, etc.; the world is real', it acquires the consequent merit and demerit through attachment, aversion, etc., and, through the residual impressions (vasanas) thereof, attains birth and death.
But the mind, which has got rid of its defilement (sin) through action without attachment performed in many past lives, listens to the teaching of scripture from a true guru, reflects on its meaning, and meditates in order to gain the natural state of the mental mode of the form of the Self, i.e., of the form 'I am Brahman' which is the result of the continued contemplation of Brahman. Thus will be removed the mind's transformation into the world in the aspect of tamo guna, and its roving therein the aspect of rajo guna. When this removal takes place the mind becomes subtle and unmoving. It is only by the mind that is impure and is under the influence of rajas and tamas that Reality (i.e., the Self) which is very subtle and unchanging cannot be experienced; just as a piece of fine silk cloth cannot be stitched with a heavy crowbar, or as the details of subtle objects cannot be distinguished by the light of a lamp flame that flickers in the wind. But in the pure mind that has been rendered subtle and unmoving by the meditation described above, the Selfbliss (i.e., Brahman) will become manifest.
As without mind there cannot be experience, it is possible for the purified mind endowed with the extremely subtle mode (vritti) to experience the Self-bliss, by remaining in that form (i.e. in the form of Brahman). Then, that one's Self is of the nature of Brahman will be clearly experienced.







Dear devotees, since we are listening to the true Guru's Highest Teaching of the Atma-vidya (Self-Knowledge) and reflecting and contemplating on the intuitive Meaning of the Words of Grace, it implies that we all must have got rid of the mental impurities and defilement substantially in the past (in this very life or in the past lives).  And now, our duty is to remain engaged in Enquiry and just be in order to remove the mind's transformation into the world in the aspect of tamo guna (dullness) and its activities for obtaining sense enjoyments in the aspect of rajo guna, and gain the natural state of the mental mode of the form of the Self so that the Self-bliss becomes manifest. Remember, when the mind stays in its natural state it is not even appropriate name the mind as the mind for then it is verily Absolute Consciousness.

Pranam,
  Anil 
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