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Messages - Nagaraj

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General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: September 02, 2013, 11:11:57 AM »
Stray thoughts...

The object is to somehow 'get lost' and what matters where you get lost? be it dvaita advaita or visishtaadvaita or shunya? and does it even matter? one has to fall into the prey and be consumed


General Discussion / Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« on: September 02, 2013, 11:08:45 AM »
Dear Sir,

another instance:

The arati plate offered to Arunachaleswarar was brought to Bhagavan by Ashram devotees and Sri Bhagavan took a little Vibhuti (holy ashes) and applied it to his forehead, saying in an undertone “Appakku Pillai Adakkam”(The son is beholden to the father). His voice seemed choked with emotion as he spoke. The expression on his face proved the ancient saying “bhakti poornathaya Jnanam” (the culmination of devotion is knowledge).

Dear Sir, your expressions seem to feel lesser to admit Servant feeling towards Master, but why Sir? does the Jnana get corrupt by being a Servant? is this not a sure light on oneself how the subtle ego persists? it does not want to give itself up in the name of Advaita, non duality? is not giving oneself up completely is destruction of ego, be it getting lost in names of dvaita or visishtadvaita, what matters if ego is being dissolved as being servant. doesn't it still segregate things as duality, non duality, qualified quality and so on? is it not still trapped in these affairs and matters theory. Please excuse my reasoning, this is not in any way to question you, but simply reasoning out.


General Discussion / Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« on: September 02, 2013, 10:57:01 AM »
Dear Sir,

Baba never admitted Ego . IN the same sense Bhagavan was the best Dvaiti!

Bhagavan says:

There are only two ways to conquer destiny or to be independent of it. One is to enquire whose this destiny is and discover that only the ego is bound by it and not the Self, and that the ego is non-existent.

The other way is to kill the ego by completely surrendering to the Lord, realizing one's helplessness and saying all the time, 'Not I, but Thou, oh Lord', giving up all sense of 'I' and 'mine' and leaving it to the Lord to do what he likes with you.

There is no Advaita or Dvaita or Visishtadvaiota, these are real illusions!


General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: September 02, 2013, 10:47:55 AM »
Dear Friends,

It is no doubt, for one who has transcended the body consciousness and there has resulted a complete vasanaakshayam, no rules are applicable, such person verily moves like a dry leaf without any course. What can be told of such an exalted person!!!

But, what is important is to be at bay, like Master has said, it is always best to be the servant 'I'

The "servant I"

MASTER: "It is true that one or two can get rid of the 'I' through samadhi; but these cases are very rare. You may indulge in thousands of reasonings, but still the 'I' comes back. You may cut the peepal-tree to the very root today, but you will notice a sprout springing up tomorrow. Therefore if the 'I' must remain, let the rascal remain as the 'servant I'. As long as you live, you should say, 'O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant.' The 'I' that feels, 'I am the servant of God, I am His devotee' does not injure one. Sweet things cause acidity of the stomach, no doubt, but sugar candy is an exception.

"The path of knowledge is very difficult. One cannot obtain Knowledge unless one gets rid of the feeling that one is the body. In the Kaliyuga the life of man is centred on food. He cannot get rid of the feeling that he is the body and the ego. Therefore the path of devotion is prescribed for this cycle. This is an easy path. You will attain God if you sing His name and glories and pray to Him with a longing heart. There is not the least doubt about it. "Suppose you draw a line on the surface of water with a bamboo stick. The water appears to be divided into two parts; but the line doesn't remain for any length of time. The 'servant I'or the 'devotee I' or the 'child I' is only a line drawn with the ego and is not real".

All these feelings that 'i' have now gone deep into self enquiry, and hence do not require to do any other things are all dangerous line of thoughts to nurture for an aspirant. Bhagavan himself was a Nithya-Upasaki, he had his routine, his own, he set highest examples, and got himself involved very meticulously in matters of importance, he is even said to have initiated Ganapaty muni, he has inadvertently initiated his childhood mate Pokkiri Raja in Shiva nama Japa, many others with Rama nama etc...

It is not even Upasana, the line of thoughts, that nothing is required is dangerous. But, we must question ourselves, should we be left around for a couple of days without food, shelter and money, then we would be able to see our true selves, as to where we stand.

we are not even ready to renounce anything, mostly we are comfortable placed, and hide these in the garb that only mental renunciation is required and that physically one need not renounce anything. Here i am reminded one incident from Sai Sat Charitra.

Quick Brahma-gyan

There was a rich gentleman (unfortunately his name and whereabouts are not mentioned), who was very prosperous in his life. He had amassed a large quantity of wealth, houses, and lands, and had many servants and dependents. When Baba’s fame reached his ears he said to a friend of his that he was not in want of anything, and so, he would go to Shirdi and ask Baba to give him Brahma-gyan, which if he got, would certainly make him more happy. His friend dissuaded him, saying, “It is not easy to know Brahma and especially so  for an avaricious man like you, who is always engrossed in wealth, wife and children. Who will in your quest of Brahma-gyan satisfy you, who does not give away even a paisa in charity?”

saw Sai Baba, fell at His Feet and said, “Baba, hearing that, You show Brahma to all who come to you, I too have come here all the way from my distant place. I am much fatigued by the journey and if I get Brahma-gyan from You, my troubles will be well-paid and rewarded.” Baba, then, replied, “Oh, My dear friend do not be anxious, I shall show you Brahma. Many people come to Me and ask for wealth, health, power, honour, position, cure of diseases and other temporal matters. Rare is the person who comes to Me and asks for Brahma-gyan. There is no dearth of people asking for worldly things but people interested in spiritual matters are very rare, I think, it is a fortunate and auspicious moment, when persons like you, come and ask Me for Brahma-gyan. So forthwith, I show to you with pleasure, Brahma, with all its accompaniments and complexities.”

Saying this, Baba started to show him Brahma. He made him sit there and engaged him in some other talk and thus, made him forget his question for the time-being. Then He called a boy and told him to go to one Nandu Marwadi and get from him a loan of Rs. Five. The boy left and returned immediately, saying that Nandu was absent and his house was locked. Then, Baba asked him to go to Bala grocer and get from him the said loan. This time also the boy was unsuccessful. This experiment was repeated again twice or thrice, with the same result. Sai Baba was, as we know, the living and moving Brahma Incarnate. Then, some-one may ask, “Why did He want the paltry sum of five rupees, and why did He try hard to get it? In reality He did not want this sum at all. He must have known fully that Nandu and Bala were absent, and He seemed to have adopted this procedure as a test for the seeker of Brahma. That gentleman had a roll or bundle of currency notes in his pocket and if he was really earnest, he would not have sat quiet and be a mere onlooker when Baba was frantically trying to get a paltry sum of Rs. five. He knew that Baba would keep His word and repay the debt, and that the sum wanted was insignificant.

Still he could not make up his mind and advance the sum. Such a man wanted from Baba, the greatest thing in the world, viz. the Brahma-gyan! Any other man who really loved Baba would have given to him Rs. five at once, instead of being a mere onlooker. It was otherwise with this man.

He advanced no money nor did he sit silent but began to be impatient, as he was in a haste to return and implored Baba, saying. “Oh Baba, please, give me Brahma-gnyan soon!” Baba replied, “Oh my dear friend did you not understand all the procedure that I went through, sitting in this place, for enabling you to see Brahma? It is in short this : For seeing Brahma, one has to give five things, i.e., surrender five things, viz. (1) five Pranas (vital forces), (2) five senses, (3) mind, (4) intellect and (5) ego. This path of Brahma-gyan or self-realization is as hard as treading on the edge of a razor.

Sai Baba then gave a rather long discourse on the subject, the purport of which, is given below :

Qualifications for Brahma-gyan or Self-realization:

All persons do not see or realize the Brahma in their life-time. Certain qualifications are absolutely necessary.

1. Mumukshu or intense desire to get free. He who thinks that, he is bound and that, he should get free from bondage and works earnestly and resolutely to that end and does not care for any other thing, is qualified for the spiritual life.

2. Virakti or a feeling of non-attachment with the things of this world and the next. Unless a man feels disgusted with the things, emoluments and honours, which his actions would bring in this world and the next, he has no right to enter into the spiritual realm.

3. Antarmukha (introversion) Our senses have been created by God with a tendency to move outward and so, man always looks outward and not inward. He, who wants self-realization and immortal life, must turn his gaze inwards
and look to his inner self.

4. Catharsis – (eliminating all base ideas and emotions) – Unless a man has turned away from wickedness and stopped from doing wrong, and has entirely composed himself, and unless his mind is at rest, he cannot gain selfrealization even by means of knowledge.

5. Right conduct – Unless a man leads a life of truth, penance and insight, a life of celibacy, he cannot get Godrealization.

6. Preferring Shreyas (the good), to Preyas (the pleasant) – There are two sorts of things, viz. the good and the pleasant; the former deals with spiritual affairs, and the latter with mundane matters. Both these are open to man for acceptance. He has to think and choose one of them. The wise man prefers the good to the pleasant, but the unwise, through greed and attachment chooses the pleasant.

7. Control of the mind and the senses – The body is the chariot and the self is its master, intellect is the charioteer and the mind is the reins, the senses are the horses and sense-objects are their paths. He who has no understanding and whose mind is unrestrained, has his senses unmanageable, like the stray horse of a charioteer, does not reach his destination (get self realization), but goes through the round of births and deaths; but he who has understanding and whose mind is restrained, has his senses under control, like the good obedient horse of a charioteer, reaches the destination, i.e. the state of self-realization, whence he is not born again. The man, who has understanding as his charioteer (guide) and is able to rein his mind, reaches the end of the journey, which is the supreme abode of the all-pervading, Vishnu (Lord).

8. Purification of the mind – Unless a man discharges satisfactorily and dis-interestedly the duties of his station in life, his mind will not be purified and unless his mind is purified, he cannot get self-realization. It is only in the purified mind that, Vivek (dis-attachment to the unreal) crop up and lead on to self-realization. Unless egoism is dropped, avarice got rid of and the mind made desire less (pure), self-realization is not possible. The idea that “I am the body” is a great delusion and attachment to this idea is the cause of bondage. Leave off this idea and attachment therefore, if you want to reach the goal of self-realization.

9. The necessity of a Guru – The knowledge of the self is so subtle and mystic that, no one can, by his own individual effort ever hope to attain it. So the help of another person – teacher, who has himself got selfrealization, is absolutely necessary. What others cannot give with great effort and pains, can be easily gained with the help of such a teacher; for he has walked on the path himself and can easily take the disciple, step by step on the ladder of spiritual progress.

10. And lastly, grace of the Lord is the most essential thing. When the Lord is pleased with any body, He gives him Viveka and Vairagya and takes him safe beyond the ocean of mundane existence, “The Self cannot be gained by the study of Vedas, nor by intellect, nor by learning. He whom the Self chooses, gains it. To him the Self reveals its nature,” says the Katha Upanishad.

After the dissertation was over, Baba turned to the gentleman and said, “Well sir, there is in your pocket the Brahma in form of fifty- times of five (Rs. 250/-) rupees, please, take that out.” The gentleman took out from his pocket the bundle of currency notes, and to his great surprise, found on counting them, that, there were 25 notes of 10 rupees each. Seeing this omniscience of Baba, he was moved and fell at Baba’s Feet and craved for His blessings. Then Baba said to him, “Roll up your bundle of Brahma, viz. currency notes. Unless, you completely get rid of your avarice or greed you will not get the real Brahma. How can he whose mind is engrossed in wealth, progeny and prosperity, expect to know the Brahma without removing his attachment for them? The illusion of attachment or the love for money is a deep eddy (whirlpool) of pain, full of crocodiles in the form of conceit and jealousy. He who is desire less, can alone cross this whirlpool. Greed and Brahma are asunder as poles, they are eternally opposed to each other. Where there is greed there is no room for thought or meditation of the Brahma. Then how can a greedy man, get dispassion and salvation? For a greedy man there is no peace, neither contentment, nor steadiness. If there be even a little trace of greed in mind, all the Sadhanas (spiritual endeavors) are of no avail. Even the knowledge of a wellread man, who is not free from the desire of the fruit or reward of his actions, is futile and can’t help him in getting selfrealization. The teachings of a Guru are of no use to a man who is full of egoism and who always thinks about the sense objects. Purification of mind is absolutely necessary, without it all our spiritual endeavors are nothing, but useless show and pomp. It is therefore, better for one to take only what he can digest and assimilate. My treasury is full and I can give anyone, what he wants, but I have to see, whether he is qualified to receive My gift. If you listen to Me carefully, you will be certainly benefited. While sitting in this Masjid I never speak any untruth.”

When a guest is invited to a house all the members of the household and other friends and relations, that happen to be present are entertained along with the guest. So all those, that were present in the Masjid at that time could partake of the spiritual feast, that was served by Baba for the rich gentleman. After getting Baba’s blessings, one and all, including the gentleman, left the place quite happy and contented.

The immediate feeling would be that we are not the person in the story, but we must place ourselves before ourselves, and keep ourselves in razors edge and see where we really stand. First and foremost thing i personally feel really essential is nurturing humility, without humility nothing can really prosper. we should have such humility that we do not even say in the voice like nothing else is required, only this is required, who knows what really may be required by us? we have to be humble enough to be thrown here and there by Bhagavan's will or the will of Self. we have to become NOTHING, this is annihilation of ego, Shunya Sampaadyam, the earning of  Shunyatvam. If Ego is really killed, why should it matter if one has to do upasana or not or fast or not? what matters? be ready to be thrown about here and there, this is annihilation of ego, that which opines that this is not required and this alone would suffice is to add fuel to the ego in subtle form, that will continue for ever. There are subtle things, we fail to take notice, and it is only because of lack of humilty. This is not acquisition on anybody, these are just personal musing. Be so humble that you simply disappear in the will of God or Self.

Thanks for opportunity!


General Discussion / Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« on: September 02, 2013, 10:17:24 AM »
Sri Ravi,

while i was in the process of gathering this incident, Bhagavan already posted through you :) yesterday. Bhagavan willing sure i will post the picture stories, it is always an awe to read about this great saint. This mad old man is a mind gobbler!!

To Muslims he was a muslim, to hindus he was a hindu, to each he was that which people saw!


Without  upasana there cannot be attainment for him this is definite.

(Ramana Gita)

More later..

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: September 01, 2013, 12:48:42 PM »
“If you are irritated by every rub, how will your mirror be polished?”


General Discussion / Re: The Significance of Ekadasi
« on: September 01, 2013, 10:43:58 AM »
Dear Friends,

What most of us take instantly from the teachings of Bhagavan is that nothing is required, one has to just be, summa iru, only Jnana matters, all other practices are only secondary to jnana and they are not required if one gets jnana, etc... Most seem to take only what seems convenient for the individuality to persist, in the garb of a Jnani.

just the intellectual understanding of Mano nasam does not destroy ones individuality! Truly if ones mind has been destroyed, Mano NAsam has occured, one would not trouble himself about any rights and wrongs, he would be somebody like Jada Bharathan or Bhagavan himself etc...

We aspirants must know where we are, we must be firstly grounded to reality!


General Discussion / Re: The Significance of Ekadasi
« on: September 01, 2013, 10:30:48 AM »
Dear Sri Jewel,

Firstly, i am unable to discern where have i been divisive in my expressions. I do not know what attitude you are referring to! What i have conveyed is pretty straight and is self explanatory and in no way have i been divisive about indians and westerners. The division is your own making. Such division exists within you. More over, it is not to show some respect to the spiritual practices that we perform them, we are nothing to show respect to such practices. Rather those practices mould the performer. We do not owe them anything and we are not doing any favor for such spiritual practices laid down by the sages of the yore.

You said:

If we come to understand little bit of Bhagavan teaching,we will know that nothing is needed along with self enquiry. It is needed only if want something for us. For instance fame and respect.

we need to realise that Bhagavan was an Ati Asrami, and simply merely intellectually knowing the teachings of Bhagavan does not make one an Ati Asrami. These are subtle things that we fail to take notice.

Just to add,i strongly believe all this is very individual thing,and all can do what ever their heart tells them. What is good for one is not for other.

Just see, how a simple thing has flared so much disturbance in your expressions. Had the Jnana what you speak about really in its brim, there would not have flared any such divisions you have perceived. You say you strongly believe... doesn't it show the strength of mind that is in operation? you also said each person can do what their heart tells them, and i suppose by heart you mean the Self, does heart say anything? is it not the mind? when you say all these are very individual thing? how much we want the individuality to persist and rule us in the name of Jnana!

We need to see things in their true perspective.

We need to realise that merely knowing intellectually would not suffice. Just knowing that you have diabetes, and you should not eat sweets would not suffice, one needs to put into practice, it requires strict discipline and tapas.

We all seem to want only the Vedanta the cream, quick Jnana, whether we are yet ready for it, it does not matter. This is a classic example of Neo Advaita.

the very example expressed in my post holds good here, we want to build buildings without a proper foundation, and similarly some others are just satisfied with just foundation and not bother about building the building!

Dear Sri Jewel, we all need chitta shuddhi. mere intellectual understanding is not enough! Thanks so much.


The best service to the guru is engaging in Self-Enquiry,
meditation, and other spiritual practices, with the purity
of body, speech, and mind.




Bhagavan, how can I rise above my present animal instincts? My own efforts have proven futile and I am convinced that only a superior power can transform me. Bhagavan replied with great compassion, Yes, you are right. It is by awakening a power higher and mightier than the senses and the mind, that these can be subdued. If you awaken and nurture the growth of that Higher Power within you, everything else will unfold mystically. One should sustain the peace of meditation as Self abidance uninterruptedly. Moderation in food and similar restraints taken up studiously and judiciously will be helpful in maintaining inner poise.

(Bhagavan to Vishwanatha Swami, HG)

Bhagavan added the previous post. -

do not mingle with people who come here.
Do not waste time socializing, talking with people and also
getting attached personally. Keep your talking to the minimum.

Vishwanathan, do not mingle with people who come here.
Do not waste time socializing, talking with people and also
getting attached personally. Keep your talking to the minimum.

(Bhagavan to Vishwanatha Swami, HG)


  He felt that he was simple and was incapable of progressing spiritually. Therefore, on many occasions he appealed to Bhagavan, You should save me. I cannot save myself. One day Mudaliar sang a Tamil song, in which the poet laments that he was not like the tenacious young monkey that could hold on to its mother‘s stomach tightly, but rather like a puny kitten that must be carried by the neck in its mother‘s jaws. The poet prayed, therefore, that God should take care of him. Mudaliar told Bhagavan, My case is exactly the same. You must take pity on me, hold me by the neck and see that I do not fall and get lost.

Bhagavan was emphatic when he replied, That is impossible. It is advantageous to both for you to be your best, as well as for the guru to help. Bhagavan insisted that the endeavor of the disciple is the grace of the guru. There is no lag and no difference. He stressed that the devotee‘s endeavor and guru‘s grace are synonymous. The devotee‘s effort is one of acceptance and surrender.

(Bhagavan to Mudaliar, HG)

But can it be that his entire life down to the minutest detail is
already predetermined? Now for instance, Bhagavan,
I have put this fan in my hand down on the floor.
Is this also already predestined?

Bhagavan (very firmly): Certainly. Whatever this body is to do
and whatever experiences it has to pass through is already
determined when it comes into existence.

Mudaliar did not stop. He put forth further questions.

Devaraja Mudaliar: What becomes then of man‘s freedom and
responsibility for his actions?

Bhagavan (looking graciously at Mudaliar): The only freedom man has,
is to strive for and acquire jnana, i.e. wisdom, which will enable him
not to identify himself with the body. Man is free to free himself from
body identification and that is the only freedom he has. Identified with
the body, man has no freedom from destiny at all. The body will go
through all actions already enjoined to it to be done.



It is very important to continue to have contact with Truth,
whether it is a person, a teaching, an institution, a temple,
or a church for spiritual strengthening. This continuum,
without a gap, is imperative.

(Devaraja Mudaliar; HG)

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