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Messages - Nagaraj

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General topics / Re: Quotes from Shankaracharya's
« on: June 01, 2014, 11:03:42 PM »
Vedo nithya madheeyatham, thadhuditham karma swanushtiyatham,
Thenesaya vidheeyatham apachithi kamye mathisthyajyatham,
Papougha paridhooyatham bhava sukhe doshonusandheeyatham,
Athmecha vyavaseeyatham nijagruhathoornam vinirgamyatham. 1

Let us read Vedas daily,
Let us do rituals based on them,
Let the Gods be worshipped based on them,
Let us do work without attachment,
Let us drive away the crowd of sins,
Let us find the mistakes that we do in our life,
Let us cultivate knowledge of the soul,
Let us go away from our homes.(towards salvation)

Sanga sathsu vidheeyatham, bhagawatho bhakthir druda a dheeyatham,
Santhyabhi paricheeyatham, drudatharam karmasu santhyajyatham,
Sadvidhwaupasarpyatham prathi dhinam thath padukha sevyatham,
Brahmaikaksharamarthyatham sruthi siro vakhyam samakarnyatham. 2

Let us seek the company of good people,
Let us build up stable sense of devotion to God,
Let us know about states of mind like peace,
Let us forsake hard to do karmas,
Let us go near a wise teacher and give ourselves up,
Let us daily worship his slippers,
Let us meditate on the one lettered Brahmam,
Let us hear the sentences from Vedas.

Vakhyarthascha vicharyatham, sruthi sira paksha samasreeyatham,
Dustharkkal suviramyatham, sruthi matha stharko anusandheeyatham,
Brahmaivasmi vibhavyatham ahara harghava parithyajyatham,
Deheham athirujjadyatham budha janair vadha parithyajyatham. 3

Let us try to understand great sentences,
Let us try to understand the import of Vedas,
Let us not involve in to bad arguments,
Let us try to listen to the arguments of Vedas,
Let us try to think ?I am Brahmam?,
Let us daily forsake being proud,
Let us forsake the belief that ?I am the body?,
Let us not do arguments with learned people.

Kshuvyadhischa chikithsyatham prathidhinam bhikshoushadham bhujyatham,
Swadhannam na thu yachyatham , vdhi vassal prapthena sandhushyatham
Seethoshnadhi vishahyatham nathu vrudhaa vakhyam samucharyatham,
Oudaseenya mabheepsytam jana krupa naishturyath srujyatham. 4

Let us treat the sickness of hunger,
Let us daily eat the medicine of food got as Bhiksha,
Let us not start pining for tasty food,
Let us become happy with what fate gives us,
Let us learn to tolerate heat and cold climate,
Let us not talk unnecessary words,
Let us start liking tolerance,
Let us leave out not being merciful.

Ekanthe sukhamaasyatham, parathare chetha samadheeyatham,
Poornathma susameekshyatham, jagadhidham thadbhadhidham drusyatham,
Prak karma pravilopyatham, cithi balanna apyutharai slishyatham,
Prabhadhandhwiha bhujyadham adha para brabrahmathmana stheeyatham. 5

Let us sit in a place of solitude,
Let us fix our mind in the ultimate truth of the soul,
Let us try to see the ultimate truth of the soul,
Let us try to see the world fully filled with that truth,
Let us destroy the effects of all karma done earlier,
Let us not get tied up with new Karmas,
Let us leave at this point all that is fated,
Let us all stay with the ultimate truth.

Ya sloka panchakamidham padathe manushya,
Sanchithyanudhinam sthirathamupethya,
Thasyasu samsruthi dhavanala theevra ghora,
Thapa prasanthi muyathi chithi prasadhal. 6

He who reads these pentet of verses daily,
Daily earns and saves stability in life,
He does not get affected by the intense,
Heat of the sorrow of life,
Because this thapas makes him wise.

Adi Shankaracharya

General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: June 01, 2014, 10:45:28 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Its interesting and inspiring to note that all kinds of people co existed at Ramanasramam. We had westerners with various backgrounds, we had the Muslims, jews, parsis, we had the brahmins and the others. Each lived in spirit without disturbing ones own place among each other!

And indeed its very inspiring to note what you have mentioned, "The classic examples of these four Yogas in modern times are: Jnanam, Sri Ramana Maharshi; Bhakti, Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa; Yoga, Sri Aurobindo of Pondicherry; and Karma, Sri Shankaracharya of Kanchi Peetam, the only one of the above still in the body."

Thanks so much for opening the topic on Vedas, its really such a refresher and inspiring.


General Discussion / Re: performing rituals to the departed
« on: June 01, 2014, 09:23:17 PM »
Dr Sundaram , friends,

finally in your article you mentioned

Having Vedas as the yardstick , should we not reject / discard all AVAIDIC  RITUALS  for our own good, failing which we are wrongly lead and  exploited? 

Yes, the Rishis have also provision for this too, when one attains the complete perfection so as to be absolutely unabusive of the nature and its resources where there is absolutely no giving and taking between one and the nature, when such a perfection is attained holistically, where one has truly become an Aryan, which is the highest Purushartha, for such a one, these samskaras are redundant. This is attained by virtue of passing through various stages of life. The Rishis came up with Sanyasa Ashrama, where one is absolved of any such duties and rituals. But even Sanyasis too have some other rules too a to live and conduct oneself.

But ordinary folks who are predominantly a Bhokta, enjoyer, who has been extensively consuming all of the nature and causing so much harm to the nature has no right to stop his duties, or rituals so to say, as these rituals are various ways of yajnas to give back to nature what we take from it. very body is obligated to perform the Pancha Maha yajnas 5 yajnas towards Rishi Yajna, Deva Yajna, Manushya Yajna, Pitr Yajna and Bhuta Yajna.

What you says is primarily the siddhanta of Jains in a general way. Jina means conqueror. One who has conquered all the impediments to the highest ideal is a Jina, a perfected being. But it eventually turned out to become a separate religion eventually. But having become a separate way, which completely discarded the Vedas, God. came up with a similar set of samskaras eventually. Similarly Buddha too, who came separate from the Vedas and the samskaras came up with more or less similar samskaras eventually.

All paths cannot do away with rituals.

"A path is a ritual"



General Discussion / Re: performing rituals to the departed
« on: June 01, 2014, 08:56:51 PM »
Dr Sundaram, friends,

some more thoughts.

As mentioned in my previous post, there are many such similar suktas that speak of the oblation to the fathers and prayers to the lord of death Yama as well. But what is not to be found in the Vedas is how does one perform or show ones gratitude to the Fathers, but it is certain that the Karma Kanda of Vedas are very clear about the right of living, and Such a one is an"Aryan". Aryan is one word widely seen in the vedic mantras. Perhaps the highest ideal spoken about in the mantras.

This set of rules are laid down by Rishis such as Apasthamba and Gauthama in their Sutras, prescribe how one may show ones gratitude to various things in the nature, Gods, Fathers - the highest ideal of the Vedas. How respectfully and ideally an Aryan ought to live and offer ones Thanks giving is what so delicately prescribed in the rules as the ways.

The other things such as what was mentioned in your article about reaching vaikuntam etc.. are the fruits for the actions performed of the kartha for his sincerity. A feeling of "Contentment" and affirmation that yes, ones father after the death is going to higher realms and would not the son and the related people feel comforted to know that their fathers have not just disappeared but have reached the Gods abode and as a son, one offers repent for all one may have not performed knowingly or unknowingly his obligatory duties as an Aryan towards his Fathers. And to convey ones heartfelt gratitude to all that the Fathers have done to them, bringing up, etc.. So even in a mourning, the spirit of "Aryan" is not left out. The value of Aryan was above everything else. This was the vision of the Seers and the Rishis. This is what they had in their minds who formulated the samskaras

More apart the above spirit, the tarpanams, etc.. that are performed throughout the life is more towards oneself, to not forget the past about their fathers and most importantly, to oneself who would have to bear with the loss of ones father. Such acts such as offering tarpanam gives the performer a contentment, when performed in such a spirit that his fathers come and receive their offerings with full heart. These do have psychological motives as well.

Your articles also mentioned about persons of different faith and non believers if they also reach the goal such as Vaikunta. IN Gita Krishna has said: (4:11) says: 'Whatever and whichever way men approach Me, even so do I accept them; whatever paths they may chose finally lead to Me' And the Vedas as said before do not mention about religion or paths, they simply speak of highest ideal. Therefore Gita, sutras and puranas are never in violation against each other.
The Vedas do not speak about paths, they lay down the nature of an Aryan, to say so in brief. The highest ideal is spoken off in the Karma Kanda, How an Aryan leads his life, he offers his gratitude to various spirits, Gods, nature, fathers, the elements. Such was the connectivity ideal mentioned in the Karma Kanda.

How one is to achieve the Vedic ideal is shown by the Guru who has lived and seen what is stated in the Vedas. Only who has lived such an ideal alone can guide others. Such a one is Guru. The Guru came up with set of rules that people can follow and following which would nourish and kinder the spirit of "Aryan". They obviously cannot go and communicate to each person one by one. They set such standard way of living, that came to be known as Achara, samskaras, what we call tradition.


General Discussion / Re: performing rituals to the departed
« on: June 01, 2014, 06:53:48 PM »
Talking about 'rituals' I felt, the english word Ritual does not really carry the the true essence of the sanskrit equivalent, perhaps due to over analyses and reanalyses over the ages. However, regarding the subject of ritual, life itself is a ritual, daily acts that we engage in casually are themselves various acts of rituals, exchanges of pleasantries, showing respect to the boss at work, taking oath in the government and so on, are all extensions of rituals. In deeper sense, all these are not required, but life without rituals will be barren and just animal instinct would prevail.

Pitru karyams, as we know it here, is known as Thanks Giving in the western world, So these rituals exist all over the world in various forms.

Rig Veda Mantras contain such excellent mantras that provide all guidance one may need in life. I know of Rig Veda Pandits who told me of a Sukta that they chant when a daughter in law enters the house of her husband for the first time, it expressed the conduct the bride is supposed to have towards her husband, father in law, mother in law and the conduct expected by the father in law, mother in law towards their daughter in law and so on. IN this way, the daughter in law is welcomed to her new home with promises and assurances and blessings.

The way we interpret the word 'Ritual' is very primitive, unfortunately it is unable to carry the weight of the essence of Vedic mantras.

The people of the yore lived very very closely with the nature, every so called rituals are perfect and the modern scientific bent of rationale can never seek to understand it. As the saying goes, where science ends, spirituality begins! Panchayatana Puja is one such excellent example, five naturally shappened stones are got from 5 different rivers which signify the 5 elements of nature, and the way of life of rituals is closely living with the nature. One has to imbibe the real spirit behind every act, without shradha or faith, everything will look barren and dry.

Talking about Animal sacrifices, it is a recorded state that eminent Advaita saint, Appaiah Dheekshitar has performed animal sacrifices as directed by the scriptures. IN the end. And again, we should never make a mistake of comparing the Karma Kanda with Jnana Kanda of the Vedas! To compare between the two is a folly.

I heard from some recently about some scientific reports coming after studies that the vedic homams that is performed to propitiate the Gods for rainfall with various ingredients that are added in the fire, goes up in the atmosphere in the form of smoke and they cause to bring about changes in the sky at various levels of atmosphere and is potent bring rainfall.

Even today, the famous Athirathra Maha yajna is being performed in kerala since thousands of years. Researches are going on.  the Agnichayana, a 3000-year-old ritual, the longest and the oldest surviving ritual of mankind, is performed in Panjal in Kerala. It is a 12- day ritual performed by Namboothiri Brahmins of Kerala. Long considered extinct and never witnessed by outsiders, the ceremonies require the participation of seventeen priests, preceded by several months of preparation and rehearsals.

(Further reading:

Let us leave the complicated parts, but i know of people personally, (many of you may do as well) whose life course of difficulties are alleviated by the performance of common homams such as Ganapaty Homam, sri Sukta Homa, etc.. If anything is performed with sincerity, one does really get help! Why even these? I know of persons whose life has changed for the better simply by offering coconuts to Lord Vighneshwarar, or even by simple chanting of Vinayagar Agaval.

Ramana Bhagavan says in Ramana Gita 1.22 ?The seeker of knowledge does not achieve his end merely by a study of scriptures. Without upasana there cannot be attainment for him, this is definite.?

I present some verses from Rig Veda that talks about Fathers, in context to Pitru Karyams.:

1. MAY they ascend, the lowest, highest, midmost, the Fathers who deserve a share of Soma-
May they who have attained the life of spirits, gentle and righteous, aid us when we call them.

2 Now let us pay this homage to the Fathers, to those who passed of old and those who followed,
Those who have rested in the earthly region, and those who dwell among the Mighty Races.

3 1 have attained the gracious-minded Fathers, I have gained son and progeny from Viṣṇu.
They who enjoy pressed juices with oblation seated on sacred grass, come oftenest hither.

4 Fathers who sit on sacred grass, come, help us: these offerings have we made for you; accept them.
So come to us with most auspicious favour, and give us health and strength without a trouble.

5 May they, the Fathers, worthy of the Soma, invited to their favourite oblations.
Laid on the sacred grass, come nigh and listen: may they be gracious unto us and bless us.

6 Bowing your bended knees and seated southward, accept this sacrifice of ours with favour.
Punish us not for any sin, O Fathers, which we through human frailty have committed.

7 Lapped in the bosom of the purple Mornings, give riches to the man who brings oblations.
Grant to your sons a portion of that treasure, and, present, give them energy, ye Fathers.

8 Our ancient Fathers who deserve the Soma, who came, most noble, to our Soma banquet,?
With these let Yama, yearning with the yearning, rejoicing eat our offerings at his pleasure.

9 Come to us, Agni, with the gracioug Fathers who dwell in glowing light, the very Kavyas,
Who thirsted mid the Gods, who hasten hither, oblation winners, theme of singers' praises.

10 Come, Agni, come with countless ancient Fathers, dwellers in light, primeval, God-adorers,
Eaters and drinkers of oblations, truthful, who travel with the Deities and Indra.

11 Fathers whom Agni's flames have tasted, come ye nigh: ye kindly leaders, take ye each your proper place.
Eat sacrificial food presented on the grass: grant riches with a multitude of hero sons.

12 Thou, Agni Jātavedas, when entreated, didst bear the offerings which thou madest fragrant,
And give them to the Fathers who did cat them with Svadha. Eat, thou God, the gifts we bring thee.

13 Thou, Jātavedas, knowest well the number of Fathers who are here and who are absent,
Of Fathers whom we know and whom we know not: accept the sacrifice well prepared with portions.

14 They who, consumed by fire or not cremated, joy in their offering in the midst of heaven,?
Grant them, O Sovran Lord, the world of spirits and their own body, as thy pleasure wills it.

Note: Again this Soma Juice is another controversy, i do not get into :D All i would like to say is that Soma Juice is not what it is commonly understood as.


Tripura Rahasya and other ancient works / Re: The Vedas
« on: June 01, 2014, 06:05:08 PM »



Sanskrit literature can be classified under six orthodox heads and four secular heads. The six orthodox sections form the authoritative scriptures of the Hindus. The four secular sections embody the latter developments in classical Sanskrit literature.

The six scriptures are: (i) Srutis, (ii) Smritis, (iii) Itihasas, (iv) Puranas, (v) Agamas and (vi) Darsanas.

The four secular writings are: (i) Subhashitas, (ii) Kavyas, (iii) Natakas and (iv) Alankaras.


The Srutis are called the Vedas, or the Amnaya. The Hindus have received their religion through revelation, the Vedas. These are direct intuitional revelations and are held to be Apaurusheya or entirely superhuman, without any author in particular. The Veda is the glorious pride of the Hindus, nay, of the whole world!

The term Veda comes from the root 'Vid', to know. The word Veda means knowledge. When it is applied to scripture, it signifies a book of knowledge. The Vedas are the foundational scriptures of the Hindus. The Veda is the source of the other five sets of scriptures, why, even of the secular and the materialistic. The Veda is the storehouse of Indian wisdom and is a memorable glory which man can never forget till eternity.

The Vedas are the eternal truths revealed by God to the great ancient Rishis of India. The word Rishi means a Seer, from dris, to see. He is the Mantra-Drashta, seer of Mantra or thought. The thought was not his own. The Rishis saw the truths or heard them. Therefore, the Vedas are what are heard (Sruti). The Rishi did not write. He did not create it out of his mind. He was the seer of thought which existed already. He was only the spiritual discoverer of the thought. He is not the inventor of the Veda.


The Vedas represent the spiritual experiences of the Rishis of yore. The Rishi is only a medium or an agent to transmit to people the intuitional experiences which he received. The truths of the Vedas are revelations. All the other religions of the world claim their authority as being delivered by special messengers of God to certain persons, but the Vedas do not owe their authority to any one. They are themselves the authority as they are eternal, as they are the Knowledge of the Lord.

Lord Brahma, the Creator, imparted the divine knowledge to the Rishis or Seers. The Rishis disseminated the knowledge. The Vedic Rishis were great realised persons who had direct intuitive perception of Brahman or the Truth. They were inspired writers. They built a simple, grand and perfect system of religion and philosophy from which the founders and teachers of all other religions have drawn their inspiration.

The Vedas are the oldest books in the library of man. The truths contained in all religions are derived from the Vedas and are ultimately traceable to the Vedas. The Vedas are the fountain-head of religion. The Vedas are the ultimate source to which all religious knowledge can be traced. Religion is of divine origin. It was revealed by God to man in the earliest times. It is embodied in the Vedas.

The Vedas are eternal. They are without beginning and end. An ignorant man, may say how a book can be without beginning or end. By the Vedas, no books are meant. Vedas came out of the breath of the Lord. They are not the composition of any human mind. They were never written, never created. They are eternal and impersonal. The date of the Vedas has never been fixed. It can never be fixed. Vedas are eternal spiritual truths. Vedas are an embodiment of divine knowledge. The books may be destroyed, but the knowledge cannot be destroyed. Knowledge is eternal. In that sense, the Vedas are eternal.


The Veda is divided into four great books: the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sama-Veda and the Atharva-Veda. The Yajur-Veda is again divided into two parts, the Sukla and the Krishna. The Krishna or the Taittiriya is the older book and the Sukla or the Vajasaneya is a later revelation to sage Yajnavalkya from the resplendent Sun-God.

The Rig-Veda is divided into twenty-one sections, the Yajur-Veda into one hundred and nine sections, the Sama-Veda into one thousand sections and the Atharva-Veda into fifty sections. In all, the whole Veda is thus divided into one thousand one hundred and eighty recensions.

Each Veda consists of four parts: the Mantra-Samhitas or hymns, the Brahmanas or explanations of Mantras or rituals, the Aranyakas, and the Upanishads. The division of the Vedas into four parts is to suit the four stages in a man's life.

The Mantra-Samhitas are hymns in praise of the Vedic God for attaining material prosperity here and happiness hereafter. They are metrical poems comprising prayers, hymns and incantations addressed to various deities, both subjective and objective. The Mantra portion of the Vedas is useful for the Brahmacharins.

The Rig-Veda Samhita is the grandest book of the Hindus, the oldest and the best. It is the Great Indian Bible, which no Hindu would forget to adore from the core of his heart. Its style, the language and the tone are most beautiful and mysterious. Its immortal Mantras embody the greatest truths of existence, and it is perhaps the greatest treasure in all the scriptural literature of the world. Its priest is called the Hotri.

The Yajur-Veda Samhita is mostly in prose and is meant to be used by the Adhvaryu, the Yajur-Vedic priest, for superfluous explanations of the rites in sacrifices, supplementing the Rig-Vedic Mantras.

The Sama-Veda Samhita is mostly borrowed from the Rig-Vedic Samhita, and is meant to be sung by the Udgatri, the Sama Vedic priest, in sacrifices.

The Atharva-Veda Samhita is meant to be used by the Brahma, the Atharva-Vedic priest, to correct the mispronunciations and wrong performances that may accidentally be committed by the other three priests of the sacrifice.

The Brahmana portions guide people to perform sacrificial rites. They are prose explanations of the method of using the Mantras in the Yajna or the sacrifice. The Brahmana portion is suitable for the householders.

There are two Brahmanas to the Rig-Veda-the Aitareya and the Sankhayana. "The Rig-Veda", says Max Muller, "is the most ancient book of the world. The sacred hymns of the Brahmanas stand unparalleled in the literature of the whole world; and their preservation might well be called miraculous."

The Satapatha Brahmana belongs to the Sukla-Yajur-Veda. The Krishna-Yajur-Veda has the Taittiriya and the Maitrayana Brahmanas. The Tandya or Panchavimsa, the Shadvimsa, the Chhandogya, the Adbhuta, the Arsheya and the Upanishad Brahmanas belong to the Sama-Veda. The Brahmana of the Atharva-Veda is called the Gopatha. Each of the Brahmanas has got an Aranyaka.

The Aranyakas are the forest books, the mystical sylvan texts which give philosophical interpretations of the rituals. The Aranyakas are intended for the Vanaprasthas or hermits who prepare themselves for taking Sannyasa.

The Upanishads are the most important portion of the Vedas. The Upanishads contain the essence or the knowledge portion of the Vedas. The philosophy of the Upanishads is sublime, profound, lofty and soul-stirring. The Upanishads speak of the identity of the individual soul and the Supreme Soul. They reveal the most subtle and deep spiritual truths. The Upanishads are useful for the Sannyasins.

The subject matter of the whole Veda is divided into Karma- Kanda, Upasana-Kanda and Jnana-Kanda. The Karma-Kanda or Ritualistic Section deals with various sacrifices and rituals. The Upasana-Kanda or Worship-Section deals with various kinds of worship or meditation. The Jnana-Kanda or Knowledge-Section deals with the highest knowledge of Nirguna Brahman. The Mantras and the Brahmanas constitute Karma-Kanda; the Aranyakas Upasana-Kanda; and the Upanishads Jnana-Kanda.


Live in the spirit of the teachings of the Vedas. Learn to discriminate between the permanent and the impermanent. Behold the Self in all beings, in all objects. Names and forms are illusory. Therefore sublate them. Feel that there is nothing but the Self. Share what you have,-physical, mental, moral or spiritual,-with all. Serve the Self in all. Feel when you serve others, that you are serving your own Self. Love thy neighbour as thyself. Melt all illusory differences. Remove all barriers that separate man from man. Mix with all. Embrace all. Destroy the sex-idea and body-idea by constantly thinking of the Self or the sexless, bodiless Atman. Fix the mind on the Self when you work. This is the essence of the teachings of the Vedas and sages of yore. This is real, eternal life in Atman. Put these things in practice in the daily battle of life. You will shine as a dynamic Yogi or a Jivanmukta. There is no doubt of this.


General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: May 31, 2014, 06:12:31 PM »
Similarly, We have in Lalita Sahasranama,

Raktha varna Mamsa nishta - She who is of the colour of blood Mamsa nishta - She who is in flesh

People commonly understand it to be Mamsam-ishta - She who like Flesh, and therefore people took to sacrifice.

It is all play of words, it depends on the taker, a ripe sadhaka will always see the true essence whereas others will always have questions.

I am reminded about this wonderful story from Chandogya Upanishad. It illustrates, what is important is not whether something is right or wrong out there, but what we make out of it, that is important. In the ultimate sense, there is no one being killed or anyone who is killing, as Krishna says in the Gita. We have to let the Leela of the Lord play as it is and not judge or question the universal intelligence, as to why or how. There is no point to rationalise good or bad in the ultimate sense. This humbles one. Now, i share the story below:

"A Brahmin ascetic become cross with a good lady who delays giving him alms, because she has to attend on her husband's urgeut needs. But, unperturbed, she tells him: "Don't think you can burn me by your angry looks as you did the crane which soiled you with its droppings." Humbled by this remarkable power of second sight in a simple woman, he asks her to initiate him in the secrets of the Self. She directs him to a butcher in the city of King Janaka as the best teacher he could have. He goes to the "righteous hunter" unquestioningly and waits on his convenience. The butcher accosts him, ascertains his purpose, and deferentially takes him to his own home where he explains that his spiritual sadhana consists in loving service to his old parents. When the Brahman expresses surprise that one so advanced in spirituality should follow so brutal and disgusting an occupation, the butcher points out that absolute abstention from taking life, knowingly or unwittingly, is impossible, as all life lives upon other life. Even ascetics who make a vow of ahimsa cannot completely eschew himsa, all that they can do is to limit it to the barest limits possible." In this inescapable human predicament sishta aachara (conduct and observance of the wise) can alone be our guide."


General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: May 31, 2014, 05:35:27 PM »
I have only one doubt, not in this connection.  He has said that when animal sacrifices were done in the Yagnas, the brahmin priests used to take a bit of roasted animal flesh, to the size of a moong dhal.

I am urged to express my little thought in the above regard.

What the Animal Sacrifice really meant in the scriptures is the sacrifice of Pashutvam, the animal instinct within everyone, the monster within everyone -  that has to be sacrificed. This is the true import of the sacrifice. One has to offer ones vices into the sacred fire of Agni, the fire of knowledge and discrimination.


Dear Hari,

I would suggest you to not bother representing the western world and voicing their concern, it would do much good if you spoke just for yourself and sort yourself clear. If we approach like this, then here too, Eastern world would begin to say the Western people come here and preach Christianity/Islam and engage in mass conversions and open cash rich ministries and so on. In our country we have had dangerous past to recollect horrors if it be said.

I mean where are you leading yourself to? You are not helping yourself, my friend! As Bhagavan says, It would do good if each one just minds ones own salvation rather than become a crusader representative for various groups.

Just a right spirit of discussion, my friend. There is evidently a misunderstanding and a lack of clarity, due to lot of dabbling. This is what happens when one approaches the scriptures without the guidance of Guru. It is only the Guru who initiates and imparts the supreme knowledge of Truth after carefully scrutinizing the worthy in the disciple. The Upanishadic truth by its very word indicates to be known in the eyes of the Guru, face to face.

There are plenty of genuine Guru all over. it seems you are infused thoroughly by negativity perhaps due to the internet. Internet is no real source for spiritual upliftment.

if you really strive to find a Guru, you will. Have you really tried? Going beyond the internet? IT depends on the effort of the disciple. There is a Guru waiting for every sincere disciple. so much pessimism creeped in you. this is classic example why one needs Sat Sanga. Not this Internet-Sanga, not Knowledge-Sanga.

Do not get confused my friend, this pessimism will not solve anything for you or the world.


General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: May 29, 2014, 11:09:32 AM »
"two Two little mice fell in a bucket of cream. The first mouse quickly
gave up and drowned. The second mouse, wouldn't quit.
He struggled so hard that eventually he churned that
cream into butter and crawled out."


Dear Hari

Just expressing my thoughts as a wellwisher. BY observing your expressions over a period of time, i feel you have been dabbling with various spiritual schools of thoughts across the world. I am not saying it is  bad, it is good to get inputs from various cornors, but it will be of no avail if the approach towards the quest is unproductive. There is evidently deep unrest within you.

I also see you have brought in various new terms, that as a layman I have not heard before like  solipsism, and many other terms i am unable to even recollect.

I also feel your questions are right but your approach could be better. You may be sincere, but it is not enough. If we are just sincere in acquiring more and more knowledge alone, it wont be enough, you must be able to chanalise them towards one path so that it does not end up pulling you down. It is significant that the eastern spiritual school demands the sadhaka to surrender to one  preceptor and engage in service to the Guru not just mentally but physically, renounce worldly affairs gradually, regulate one's diet and living and so on and wait for eternity if it is required to be guided towards the truth, unconditionally. This kind of single pointed focus helps a sadhaka more than trying various things. (Take time to choose your Guru, if you have to), but having made the choice, stick to him and him alone.

I do feel you are a very  sincere sadhaka and will take these thoughts in stride and take yourself further. I am just expressing as a wellwisher. I felt your collected thoughts over time would only make a good Thesis on "Comparative Study of Religions" in a university rather than help you advance yourself.

We need to rest your faith in one. We need to realise that one cannot realise or rationalise the truth by the intellect. I feel you are stuck right here and need to recognise that you need to approach beyond the intellect and rationale or reason. Truth cannot be rationalised, it will always either stump you if you recognise or you would get stuck if not recognised.

You also raised points about a western approach to eastern spirituality and how a native indian would approach spirituality. I am afraid, a westerner has to imbibe the Vedic spirit in looking at Indian spirituality. YOu very well need to become one by being here, living here and only then be able to appreciate the unity of the common thread in various schools of thoughts of indian spiritual school even though they may be appear to be against each other. This is the spirit that one needs to really be a christian to appreciate Christ a Moslem to appreciate Allah "in spirit" and do not mix up each other. For your own good, do not mix up Advaita school with Dvaita or Visishtadvaita and so on. See each from its own school of thought and learn to appreciate the essence in it all.

The differences are so simple and sweet across all schools of thoughts! Sweets may be difference all over the world, but the sweetness is the same. When you are enjoying the sweetness what avail is it to measure it or analyse it as various terms, which you have been bringing forward.

Be a layman, do not complicate yourself. Truth is much much simpler.

I conclude by the following verse of Lord Krishna:

tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.

Please also have a read of the following post from Sai Sat Charitra:

(1) It is not enough merely to prostrate before the Jnanis. We must make Sarvaswa Sharangati (complete surrender) to the Sad-guru.

(2) Mere questioning is not enough. The question must not be made with any improper motive or attitude or to trap the Guru and catch at mistakes in the answer, or out of idle curiosity. It must be serious and with a view to achieve moksha or spiritual progress.

(3) Seva is not rendering service, retaining still the feeling that one is free to offer or refuse service. One must feel that he is not the master of the body, that the body is Guru's and exists merely to render service to him.

Best wishes my friend

General topics / Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« on: May 21, 2014, 07:04:27 PM »

In Lalita Sahasranama, the thousand names of the Mother:

avyaktā - She who is not clearly seen
vyaktāvyakta-svarūpiṇī - She who is visible and not visible
vyāpinī - She who is spread everywhere

Jnaneshwar says:

The Sun appear to hine because of its rays,
But it is the Sun itself, which produces the rays
In act, that glorious Sun and its shining
Are one and the same

To have a reflection, one must have an object;
If we see a reflection, then we infer
That an object exist.
Likewise, the supreme Reaity, which is one,
Appears to be two

Through Her,
The absolute Void becomesz the manifest world
But her existence
Is derived from Her Lord

Shiva Himself became His beloved
But, without Her presence
No universe exists

Because of Her form
God is seen as the world
But He created Her form
Of Himself

Embarrassed by Her formless Husband
And Her own graceful form,
She adorned Him with a universe
Of myriad names and forms

In Unity, there is little to behold
So She, the mother of abundance
Brought forth the world as a play

She made evident the glory of Her Lord
By spreading out Her own body-form
And He made Her famous by concealing Himself

He takes the role of Witness
Out of love of watching Her
But when Her appearance is withdrawn
The role of Witness is abandoned as well.

I forcibly stop myself from posting more... such wonderful expresions of Beloved Jnandev


General topics / Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« on: April 20, 2014, 09:03:13 AM »
i was inspired to read this in an internet source:

Charactrestrics of Superior Bhakti (Utthama Sri Vaishnavaas)

BhUvarAhAcchAr Swamy sums up the TEN distingushing codes of conduct for our interaction with UtthamAdhikAris ( BhaagavathAs/BhakthAs of BhagavAn)as instructd by ANDAL through the "ukthi-prayukthi " lines of this very important paasuram :

1. " ellE ilankiLiyE": the implied sense is that the speech of the devotee (BHagavathA) is most welcome.

2. " innam uRangudiyO?": it is wrong to indulge in other things (vishayams) when the company of BhagavathAs is available.

3. " chil yenRu azhayEnmin": Not a single harsh word should be  used in conversation with BhAgavathAs.

4. " nangaimeer pOdarhinREn": BhAgavathAs should be addressed  most respectfully with utter/sincere humility.

5. " Vallai un katturaigaL": even the chastisement by a BhAgavathA (which will always be constructive)      should be accepted gracefully.

6. " ValleergaL neengaLE NAANE THAAN AAYIDUGA" : Owning others'  mistakes as one's own is the hallmark (LakshaNam) of a true Sri VaishNavan. For example , BharathA holds himself responsible for RaamA's exile to the forest.

7. " ollai nee pOdhAi": seperation form the BhAgavathAs even for a second is unbearable.

8. " unakenna vERudayai" : The path laid down by one's poorvAs need to be followed , not what is dictated by one's own mind.

9. " ellArum pOndhArO pOnthAr ponthu yeNNikkoL ": seeing a congregation of BhAgavathAs (and being part of that      group)is the most desired fruit in this life. The enjoyment  is not complete even if one BhAgavathA  is missing.      Their sight (darsana soubhAgaym)and touch ( adorning  the dust from their sacred feet )are all vital factors      to change one's purpose in this life and acquire lasting  soubhAgyams.

10." VallAnai konRAnai mARRArai mARRazhikka vallAnai Mayanai paadu":  Singing His ( Lord's) virtues , valour , victory and other  kalyANa guNAs are vital to a Sri VaishNavA as  means of  pleasing other Sri VaishNavAs; as such , it results in  the service of BhAgavathAs( BhAgavatha daasyam), which is  the boundary limit of Bhagavath Kaimkaryam .

These ten golden rules are to be cherished by us says  ANDAL , the avathAram of BhUmi Devi for our ujjeevanam (salvation)after Her own dialog on Laghu Upayam with Her Lord BhU VarAhan to redeem us .

General topics / Re: Tiruppavai.
« on: April 20, 2014, 08:49:42 AM »

      Charactrestrics of Superior Bhakti (Utthama Sri Vaishnavaas)

"Hey, little bird, Are you still sleeping?
             "Don't disturb my sleep, Lasses, I will just come".
"You are good in your speech, We know what you mean."
             "You be good, but leave me alone"
"Come quickly, why is it different for you?"
             "Have every one gone?"
"Gone, think they have gone"
"Please wake up and sing,
Of he who killed the big elephant,
Of him who can remove enmity from enemies,
And of him who is the holy enchanter,
And worship our Goddess Pavai."

(Verse 15)

General Discussion / Re: Teachings of Sri Ramakrishna
« on: April 05, 2014, 08:46:10 AM »
?People find opportunities according to their fate and Karma. ... The fact
is, if one?s time to go beyond the world is ripe, one will break all bonds and
come; nobody will check him. Lack of money, awaiting somebody?s
approval, fear of having to go back, these are nothing.?

Mother Sarada Devi

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