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Messages - Nagaraj

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5101
Yes Ramana spoke of his experience. but he did not mention the word 'Realization' or became 'Jeevan Mukta'

again its a cinema here :) we see Ramana in the movie.

I still love Ramana, so I submit!

Nagaraj

5102
Yes, Bhagawan knows each one here. He will lead us to the Ultimate. Let us submit ourselves to him :)

Nagaraj

5103
according to my understanding, Realization is not something to become, or some transformation to happen! As I told in my post before -

"These words in english have all through conveyed a different meaning of the words in sanskrit. The word Self Realization does not convey the real meaning. The word 'Realization' means 'recognition' or 'understand'or 'to know' I feel its wrong according to me. It creates confusion. The Self cannot realize itself, The Self cannot know itself, the Self cannot understand itself" you would want to read it again just for reference

Really there is no Realization or Unrealized. These terms are used only by the person watching the cinema. Ramana Maharshi never said he was realized, it is we, his devotees know him as a Realized person.

As Subramanian says this is endless discussion :) like they say even the Vedas fall short to describe the Ultimate.

The best course is to just as it is :)

Nagaraj



5104
Ramana being realized is also a cinema. A divine cinema. Ok Ramana is realized, still we are the same! after knowing all wonderful events of Bhagawan we are still the same! still we are what we are. it is all in the Self only.

Nagaraj

5105
I dint get your question on Ramana realized even....

5106
There is nothing apart from you! Everything is only 'you' 'Self' Only if something else apart from you is there we can find out if it is spontaneous or not. Nothing is there!
:)


5107
Ramana realized in Madurai itself, but still, he came to Arunachala? was it planned or desirous? It just happened, He just was, absolutely spontaneous! it just happened!

Nagaraj

5108
Ramana was just himself. he spoke spontaneously. Upanishads are as they are.

Both Ramana and Upanishads are 'you' 'Self' only

The question about Ramana speaking, Upanishads speaking is also just a cinema. even now your response is spontaneous, as it is!

Everyone is just 'you' 'Self'

Nagaraj

5109
dont compare with animals, again the animal that you are comparing is just a cinema. Just be. when you are really tortured by anger, you will respond spontaneously. why think about it?

when you say 'is this animal life?'  you are measuring with something which is not there. Let animals be aside. you be as you are

Nagaraj

5110
Dear Srkudai,

Its not like you will or will not be able to be just as you are.

you are always 'just as you are' or 'Just be as I am'

Why have conditions like "I do not need a teaching, I do not need upanishad" and all if you are learning something then think like you just had your food, you consumed your food thats all. Let what ever learning happen let it happen, you are still as you are.

You dont have to know how to 'just be'. whether or not you know, you still are the same!

This moment , this kshanam - do you have any vasanas? as you are reading this word, now.

But then dont try to make any effort to be in 'this moment' you are always in 'this moment' only

I am not teaching someone or is someone being taught by me.

I am not there , I am just a character in a cinema for you. thats all. now I am gone.

Your are only there. Just be as you are. Bhagawan is there

Nagaraj

 


5111
Dear Srkudai,
:)
I cant give you any solution. But for the same (my) question, my answer is

'the movie has just ended'

Just be as you are.

Bhagawan is there.

Nagaraj

5112
General topics / Re: Mankuthimmana Kagga (Song of Mankuthimma)
« on: March 03, 2009, 02:42:33 PM »
Dear Subramanian,

I am glad to hear that someone from this forum already knows and has read the Mankuthimmana Kagga. Even if one glances these, will surely go happier :)

HUMANLY LOVE

What is the use of hundreds of stars in dark sky
Traveler's eye needs a house-light
Forget the distant God
Poor soul requests human friend - Mankuthimma

You submit all your love to God Hari
Will He talk back to you or show Himself?
Life anguishes for delectable company
Delicate secret of human virtue - Mankuthimma

Heart not getting love in human form
Pours love to cat, dog or parrot
And listens to the answering sound -
Cools down with life's sound - Mankuthimma

Yearning to give away all of one's self
Love's crazy addiction
Parts towards mother, father
Husband, wife, brother, son or friend - Mankuthimma

Love frustrated turns into demon, satisfied turns Lakshmi
Gets perplexed begging for return love
Thinking this is one's own, sacrifices one's self
Gets soothed - Mankuthimma

Nagaraj


5113
Dear Srkudai, Subramanian.R and Subramanian.S
 :)


You have said that identification with the Vasanas needs to be handled. Now, primarily, to be identified with something, there should be something apart from you for you to identify with. Here you have projected Vasanas as a separate entity apart from you. You have no identity at all. The Self has no identity. It but IS. Such being the case how can it identify with something else?

Its just like identifying yourself with a character in a movie and you are trying to handle yourself with your identity with the charcter in the movie. You are just watching the movie, the movie or the charater is not there actually. similarly the Vasanas here is just like the movie. Whilst watching the movie, we experience all emotions of the character which is called Vasanas and within the movie as the story goes on, when the Bad guy tries to become good... and we also experience all these within ourselves. In the end when the movie gets over. You only are there. there was no Bad or no becomming good, no emotional experiences. It was all not there. We know a movie is fake not real, so are Vasanas.

You Itself are (is) the Vasanas

Identifying with Vasanas is like identifying with the character in the movie which is really Non existent!

Suppose you have a habit of smoking and you are reminded to smoke everyday at 5 PM, its spontaneous! There is no command there at all. Command can be there only if there is another entity. The Self cannot command itself. The Self is ever sponatneous. The command illustarted in your example is like the cinema experience, which is not there really.

Verification is possible only if there is something else to verify with, how can you verify the Self? What else is there to verify with? This is what is called 'Maya'The popular meaning of 'Maya' is said to be 'illusion' which does not convey the exact meaning. We have a word in tamil called 'Padi' which means 'to measure' Maya is something which cannot be measured at all for it is not there. How can it be measured?

Really the Self does not play any roles at all. These words in english have all through conveyed a different meaning of the words in sanskrit. The word Self Realization does not convey the real meaning. The word 'Realization' means 'recognition' or 'understand'or 'to know' I feel its wrong according to me. It creates confusion. The Self cannot realize itself, The Self cannot know itself, the Self cannot understand itself,

for to understand there should be something else to measure and understand i.e. 'padi'

Whatever role 'it seems' to be is the spontaneous Self. you said "i will have to see how the role does not "define" me. that is, i have to see how even without the role i am Purnam..." You are purnam with or without roles. There is no doubt about it.

What they call Moksha or Liberation or Self Realization is not for 'you' or 'Self'. The concept of Freedom xists only if bound by something else? but is there something else apart from you? so that it can bind you?

Nagaraj

5114
What I have said is only based on my understanding of what I have read up to this point of time. end of the day, with Sri Ramana as my guide, I believe he would take me to the light from here. After all every souls deepest prayer is -

Asathoma SatGamaya,
Tamasoma Jyothergamaya,
Mrithyorma Amirtham Gamaya

Lead me from the false to the real
From darkness to light
And from death to deathlessness

So is my prayer to Ramana, I surrender to Him.

Nagaraj



5115
Dear Srkudai,

I still stick to my understanding that intellectual exercise is also part of the Self itself like the mud
pot in the space. If there is something to remove, only then it can be removed. The existence of Vasanas is
only as much existent like the Mud pot in the space. There is no need to break the mud pot. breaking or
dropping the mud pot or Vasanas is impossible, How can one drop off the Vasanas (Mud pot) which is in the
space (Self) Itself? There is no dropping or removing.

Like I already told, the mud pot does not break for the space to merge with the space outside the mud pot.
for mud pot itself is in the space. The Vasanas are actually not there, to drop it. It existence of Vasanas
is only as much existent like the mud pot in the Space (Self). So lack of spontaneity is only as much
existent like the mud pot. There is nothing to drop, leaving it as it is part of the Self. Its like Yashoda
seeing herself again seeing the mouth of Krishna inside Krishna's mouth among all other worlds.

Free of intellectual exercise is just understanding that there is no Vasanas or nothing there to drop or
remove. One is never different from the Self. The famous verse from Isavasya Upanishad illustrates this -

purnamadah:                          'That is complete.'
purnamidam:                          'This is complete.'
purnamadah purnamidam          'That is complete, this is complete'.
purnat purna mudachyate -      'From that completeness comes this completeness'
purnasya purnamadaya -          'If we take away this completeness from that completeness'
purnameva vashishyate:          'Only completeness remains.'

In Advaita Bodha Deepika, The Sage tells

The constant thought of the wasp transforms the maggot into a wasp. Similarly, constantly meditating on
Brahman, the seeker loses his original nature and becomes himself Brahman. This is the realisation of Brahman.

Again to note that 'Loses his original nature' is not something to be lost. it is there, it just appears like a snake in place of a rope

Undoubtedly individuality lasts as long as the mind exists. Just as the reflected image disappears with the removal of the mirror in front, so also individuality can be effaced by stilling the mind by meditation.

Here the example of mirror is used just for the sake of explaining because the reflection in the mirror is not there actually. Mirror being removed is just to explain that there is no Mirror there as it is believed so. only if it is there one can remove it. Like Darkness is dispelled and not destroyed. The individuality is effaced, wiped out, like the smell in the air but Air is free of the smell, but smell is in the Air itself like the mud pot in the space

Nagaraj

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