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Messages - Nagaraj

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5086
General topics / Re: Mankuthimmana Kagga (Song of Mankuthimma)
« on: March 06, 2009, 08:19:44 AM »
INTROSPECTION

Mind's experience, thoughts and feelings,
When this paddy is pounded by reasoning
We get the rice of philosophical knowledge -
Our daily food - Mankuthimma

Book Knowledge is like a jewel on the head
Knowledge from mind is like flower on plant
Perception of things comes from looking within
Not from being scholarly - Mankuthimma

"Isn't the major portion of creation a waste? Any meaning
In Creating millions of worms and insects?
Without thinking the creator is being extravagant" - is the
Explanation given by people with half insight - Mankuthimma

Creator's design and notes not in front of us
We see just a line of that
From that can we sat lost or saved?
This is difficult predicament - Mankuthimma

Everything is half-light, half insight, half knowledge
Till we know it in complete
Who will tell us Creator's hidden secret?
Entire life is mystery - Mankuthimma

Nagaraj

5087
Dear Dr Raju,

Thanks for providing your work online freely. I really appreciate you and all those who have been part of this work. Its really wonderful that such serious and useful contribution is being shared in this forum. It also raises the quality of the forum now! Hope to see much more works from you

Best Wishes and Regards
Nagaraj

5088
General topics / Re: Mankuthimmana Kagga (Song of Mankuthimma)
« on: March 04, 2009, 07:47:40 PM »
WORSHIP OF LIFE

Touch gently, you look at it kindly
Appreciate it with fear, you worship that.
Universe's essence is self originated
Life is very dear in the universe - Mankuthimma

Everybody is saint, everybody is a preacher
Till life's test comes and stands in front
Inner secrets of nature then rise from the bottom
God is the only refuge then - Mankuthimma

Everyone has conquered mind
Till God, fate, illusion and beauty dazzle the eyes
Arjuna was a sage till beautiful Subhadra
Came dazzling in front of him - Mankuthimma

Who has a firm determined mind like Seetha?
But what happened when the deer came by?
Desire is the sleeping fire hidden in an ocean
Who would enrage it? - Mankuthimma

Who feeds the elephant, ant, crow or frog?
Hunger is their teacher
Man is student of the stomach
Has tongue in all his organs - Mankuthimma

Nagaraj

5089
General topics / Birth, Death and Rebirth
« on: March 04, 2009, 02:31:27 PM »
What is Birth and Death? This question haunted me for a long time. Then one day I understood thus:

What is called as Birth? We know what is birth by seeing a child being born, if a child is born, then we know it to be birth, we say a child is born. Similarly, we know what is death when we see some person die. We see a person lie flat as know im to be dead. We call this as death! Both the above points i.e. birth and death is known to us by seeing what is birth and by seeing what is dead. So we have only seen what is birth and what is death.

Do 'I' or 'you' know what birth are death is? Do you remember your birth? How much so ever you try to recollect where from, when you were born, you cannot recollect your own birth! The truth is 'You' 'I' are birth less. You know your your birth day, time of your birth only by what others have told you, for example, your parents have recorded your birth date and so on, but do you really know your own birth? you have been believing that you were born on this date this time etc...

The fact is, 'You' can never know your birth date at all by yourself, for you are actually birth less. Similarly, 'You' can never know your death at all because you can never know when you die? do you? So long what we know about death is only what we saw, but we have never experienced death or birth. The fact is you can never experience Death because you are Deathless.

So now what is Rebirth?

Is there a Rebirth? You are born every moment, and when every moment that passed by you died. to make it more simple, every new thought is
your rebirth and every thought that just passed by is your past life. You are born and dead innumerable number of times - countless.

This moment when you know this truth, now you can remember all your past life's. What you were and what you are now. What is called prarabdha is this. It because of your past actions you are now thus. You can recollect your past life. It is said Buddha recollected all his previous life's -  It is this truth!

The Vedas, Upanishads say, you have now been born as a human being after ountless births and you have this rare opportunity to be born as a human. What is its essence? Does it mean you were something else in your past life and all? Just think about this. Let me take an example of a Terrorist, Does he know he is a human being? He does not, He has all animal instinct in him, He kills, destroys and all etc.. later at some point in his life, he then realizes his folly, he realizes how he has been so long like an animal, now when he realizes this truth, that moment he is born as a Human Being. He was animal in his past life as a terrorist. Now when he realized his folly he became a human being. This is the Truth!

I would like to illustrate this further with the srory of Jadabharatha.

As the story goes just when all his austerities were going to give him their fruits i.e. when he was just about to attain liberation, One day while offering prayers to the Sun God on the river bank, he saw a lone and heavily pregnant doe coming to quench its thirst in the river. Hardly had it touched the water when the forest echoed with the roar of a lion. The doe became terror-stricken and it just leaped into the water without even quenching its thirst and tried to ford it in a bid to escape to the other side of the river. Shocked by fear and overcome by the effort to negotiate the current, the doe gave birth to a young deer midstream. Without even being aware of it, the doe reached the other bank where it died of exhaustion. The royal sage who saw it all, was moved by compassion at the sight of the motherless infant deer being carried away by the river. He picked the young deer, took it to his ashrama and fed it with tender grass and protected it from wild beasts. Soon he grew very fond of it. In course of time the sage became so attached to it that he could not part from it even for a short while. He feared all sorts of harms to his pet and prayed for their removal. He forgot that he was a sage and behaved like a foolish householder doting over his child. In the end he died with thoughts of the deer in his mind.

The Vedic scriptures say that a man will be born in his next birth as that thing about which he was thinking most at the time of his death. So in this case, Jadabharatha thinking about the motherless deer, for the love for the deer, and hence he was born as a deer (He decided to be its caretaker, Mother deer), the essence is that he is not born again as a deer but in that love, he forgot himself and himself lost in the love of the deer became a (caretaker like a mother) deer to take care the motherless infant deer. He became a mother deer. Like How sometimes, young people are mesmarised on terror and become terrorist. Similarly, Jadabharatha became a deer. Then like the example being discussed how the terrorist realizes his folly and becomes human being, Jadabharatha realized - "regretted: "How foolish of me to have forgotten my tapas and become attached to an animal? And now I suffer for it, being born an animal. I shall not repeat the mistake." Saying this the deer left its mother and began living in the vicinity of a Rishi's ashrama spending all its time thinking of God. When death approached, the deer entered the water of a river and standing there, gave up its body. So the last thought at death was he realized his mistake and did not want to commit the same mistake (Note he dint die, his thought dies).

In the next birth the deer was born as the son of a pious Brahmana. The past tapas and mistakes lingered in the child's mind and so he did not want to commit the same mistake. As a child Bharata in his third birth did not show any attachment to his family. He did not even speak. People therefore called him Jada or a dunce. Hence the name Jada Bharata.

I have seen some people saying that they have wasted their life so far and they cannot do anything in this life and hope for the best in the next birth! The question is do they even have this birth like how they think? or is there another birth like they think? The truth is there is no "Next Birth" like how it sounds. Rebirth is now. Death is now. You dont die or take birth at all. So there is No Birth, no Rebirth, or Death at all as it is normally understood. The real essence of Birth, Rebirth and death is only your thoughts and not you.


Nagaraj

5090
Dear Srkudai

:) Thats it.

Nagaraj

5091
Dear S.Subramanian

I dont know if it is a joke. But I am not fit for your message if it is real. Only Bhagawan can bless anyone or give guidance. I am a mere humble human being just like you. Please don't elevate me to such a position. I see it only as a joke and hope it is :)

Nagaraj

5092
Dear Srkudai,

I understand what you are saying. But eventually you will see it yourself -

Its True. Please see. I see a snake in a rope. - Seeing is possible if there are 2, i.e. seer and seen, So the snake here is movie. You will soon see that the snake and rope is but you ItSelf
I tell a friend about it ... he says: Pick this stick and kill it. - This all is happening in the movie
i take the stick but am still shivering from fear. - This is the character in the movie

The character is not different from you. you are that, that is you.

When you say you see snake, you dont see snake, Its you itself, There is nothing there. Its like you are the character (snake) and rope (You - Seer)

The Seer is Rope and the Seen is Snake - Is there 2 here? there is only one.

Both Rope and Snake is One.

When you see snake, the rope is only seeing! nothing else...

This topic is very difficult to discuss through language. :)

Nagraj



5093
General topics / Re: Spiritual Practice : some guidelines
« on: March 04, 2009, 08:59:40 AM »
Dear Paul,

I feel Bhagawan's teachings, his advice to each devotees were different based on their level platforms. We should carefully analyze for which type of devotee Bhagawan advised something. We should also look into ourselves whether we are similar to the devotee in the reading.

I just glanced Day by Day with Bhagawan, I also happened to read the following words by Bhagawan -

“The aim is to make the mind one-pointed. For that pranayama is a help, a means. Not only for dhyana but in every case where we have to make the mind one-pointed, it may be even for a purely secular or material purpose, it is good to make pranayama and then start the other work. The mind and prana are the same, having the same source. If one is controlled, the other is also controlled at the same time. If one is able to make the mind one-pointed without the help of pranayama, he need not bother about pranayama. But one who cannot at once control the mind, may control the breath and that will lead to control of the mind. It is something like pulling a horse by the reins and making it go in one direction.”

for controlling breath, the regular pranayama is not better in which 1:4:2 proportion for breathing in, retaining, and breathing out is prescribed. Bhagavan replied, “All those proportions, sometimes regulated not by counting but by uttering mantras, etc., are aids for controlling the mind. That is all.

The thing is to kill the mind somehow. Those who cannot follow the enquiry method are advised pranayama as a help to control the mind. And pranayama is of two kinds, one of controlling and regulating the breath and the other of simply watching the breath.

Though the yogi may have his methods of breath-control, pranayama, mudras, etc., for this object, the jnani’s method is only that of enquiry. When by this method the mind is merged in the Self, the Self, its sakti or kundalini, rises automatically.


I have also learnt Pranayama from a qualified teacher and also practiced pranayama regularly. But now, I only do it as a part of my daily rituals. What I have come to understand is that Mind and Breath are interrelated. your state of mind is dependent of your breath. If your breath is regular, i.e. in and out is fine relaxed, then you also become clam. Look into this - they advocate everybody to exercise for a fit body, actually what happens - at the end of the exercise, you sweat, take long breath in and out, its so normal, you are very relaxed. More oxygen is fed into your body, hence you become fit.

Another fact is that about 90% of your breath directly is consumed by your brain, hence if there is not enough intake of air i.e. oxygen, the brain is irritable, you become irritable, next time you may just try this out, when you have headaches, when you are irritable, you would observe that your breath pattern is not ok. By Pranayama or by looking in to your breath, the breath in and out is normalized.

Nagaraj


5094
Just one more point...

I am not there, I am cinema for you. you are cinema for me. I am You, You am I.

I have written before in one of my posts thus -

"When you just posted your response. I read your post. what ever you have conveyed in your post and my response to this post is my own response to my own (your) post.

When you now read my post as a response, if you have any response to it, it is your response to your own (my) post?

do you get it? I find it difficult to write it out!

Upanishads say Self is everywhere. when you read this, you are here and you are reading this, and you understand it. and if there is a question in this post, its your own question which is already there in you. and if you are responding to that question, its your own answer to your own question.

I am You. You am I

"


The entire exercise of sadhana is only the period watching the movie. Sadhana is the cinema character 'you' If action is spontaneous, then it does not matter if it is a Sadhana for 'you' 'Self'. It will not see it as a Sadhana for it is spontaneous

Nagaraj

5095
I am with you in all the points you conveyed. but I have some points

one who sees a rope as a rope need not be taught.
one who sees a snake ... he has to be shown that it is a rope.
The vasanas are not there but appear as if present ... so one needs to face them and see that they are not there in Reality. That is sadhana.

Being taught or to be shown that it is rope and not a snake is also the same 'Self' There is nobody apart from you to show you that it is rope. someone else showing the rope again amounts to watching a movie.  It is just like watching, reading Ramana being realized

To whom does the rope appear like snake? We now have now come to understand that only rope 'you' 'Self' exists. If something else exist apart from Rope, then thats is unreal like the cinema. Only if there is something apart from the rope then only one can confirm that the snake is rope.

Is somebody there watching this rope? then this rope should be unreal like cinema.

The Rope but is. nothing else.

Nagaraj

5096
This discussion here is a cinema. When the discussion - Cinema ends, you will know your Self. This discussion is all nothing but the character 'You' its all not yours really.

Just a prayer - May Bhagawan guide everyone.

Nagaraj

5097
1. all the emotions experienced are not yours but the character's. does the cinema or the character exist? even if it did exist, is it you?

2. Now it is understood that the cinema and the character is not real! so all the emotions you have been subject to experience is within you. those experiences are not real. we cry, laug, etc.. then we come out of the movie and are absolutely normal just as before. what happened to those emotions? those emotions are no more there, for you now know that that was only the cinema and not yours.

First and second points are interrelated. If you think that all emotions you experience is yours, then its wrong, its found not to be yours but the character, which is non existent.

So then now, if you think the experiences are yours now, when the cinema gets over we understand that all the experiences considered as ours is not there anymore. so long you are watching the movie, the rope appears as snake. the shadow appears as a devil. These emotions considered as ours is actually the cinemas. But while watching the movie the character is 'you' 'Self' this 'You' 'Self' only has experienced the emotions. this 'You' is unreal. so when the cinema ended the same 'you' is normal as before, just as it were before the cinema.

Those emotions which, so long we think is ours is found to be not ours but the cinemas.

3. Is there a cinema? it is understood from the above point that the cinema is unreal.

"... if there is no cinema... why did we bring it in ? why are we talking about it at all?"

Is precisely what I have been trying to tell! there is no cinema, and all the emotions etc... were all part of that non existent cinema. so all the discussions so far between us is of those non existent cinema. the cinema has ended now.

Now I am just as I am just as I was before


Nagaraj




5098
Dear Srkudai,

I am off now to perform my evening rites. will get back some time later. this conversation is not intended to prove you wrong or prove myself right. I am just sharing what ever I have understood.

:) catch you in sometime.

Nagaraj

5099
the cinema example is used only to illustrate that it is not real. I have clearly mentioned in my previous posts that all experiences are your own. not the cinema's or the chracter in the cinemas. There is no cinema actually. when the cinema ended the shadow also is understood as its own. thats all

:)

5100
Yes, perspective changes. just like understanding that the cinema is unreal. you are left with whatever you are naturally after the cinema ended. all the experiences while watching the movie are not real. the movie ended. Who am I enquiry reveals that its only a cinema, and the emotions experienced are not his but the chracters, the emotions have ended. But why do you want to change?

Whatever Ramana said, is ok. now only you are!

Submit according to me is to submit to being as I am, action is spontaneous. Submission is the same!

Nagaraj

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