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Messages - Nagaraj

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5071
General Discussion / Re: The Elections are coming!
« on: March 08, 2009, 04:31:07 PM »
One basic flaw in Democracy is that everybody is a King! Everybody cannot be a King! This is why our Shastras did not have this type of concept of democracy! Also democracy has limited the possibilities of our country having a great Leader. We dont have a single LEADER i our country. But Gandhi, Lal Bahadur, Bose, Nehru etc.. were self made Not Democracy made. Today if one Leader has to be formed, its based on only Votes.

Its again because of Democracy, current great leaders like Manmohan Singh and AB Vajpayee had to struggle. They have/had a bigger burden to maintain the alliance than to run the country!

Democracy has a lot of other advantages, no denying to this point!

Democracy has led us not to a point where no single party is able to win a majority. Its going to be a multi party Government this time as well. Its flawed. Abdul Kalam also expressed an idea about having 2 party system like the Americas. We need to explore ideas. Current system is invisibly flawed.

Democracy is only money power, not knowledge power, not vote power!

Probably, Indian politics would have matured when rival parties come together to form an alliance for the common goals they share - To have a better India!

Nagaraj

5072
Dear Srkudai,

:) I have been saying thing that you have conveyed -

You said:

"The "I" and the "Self" are at different dimentions.
The "Self" needs no teaching.
The mind needs it.
Sadhana or anything is for mind."

and mind need not end at Self Realization. it merely becomes a shadow as Sri Annamalai swami mentions in "Final Talks"


I said

"Here it has to be noted that the one who tries to work out his Karma is the illusion 'I' not the Pure Self.

When such thug of war is going on within, there is a thug of war going on in me as well. Sometimes I feel like crying off thinking Bhagawan, his form, his eyes, his smile, his love... I begin to long for Bhagawan. At a certain point of the Thug of war within, this illusion 'I' has no option but to surrender to Bhagawan. More observation, intellectualization will be of avail to this illusion 'I' This point it will know by default, it cant do anything, simply not in its hands. It has to just wait. It will begin to bear this thug of war within, no matter how strong the thug of war is within, it simply has to but be bearing its own illusion 'self' from here the innermost prayer of the 'I' the illusion will ask Bhagawan to take itself to Bhagawan or be destroyed by Bhagawan (Pure Self) this 'I' would want to give away its life, it will even be ready to give up its life but still it knows not how to give up its life, it cannot commit suicide nor expect anybody to get itself killed
It will just remain like the notional or imaginary snake! viz. shadow

and about the efforts there are no levels to vasanas (Efforts). either you have vasanas or you dont have vasanas. There is no increase or decrease in vasanas. The 'false I' just relishes in this increase and decrease games of vasanas. the waves will never end. if it increases it will try to decrease it, if it decreases, it will further try to decrease it!

Agreed, the mind (false I, Illusion I) needs the teaching, sadhana etc... soon it will eventually come to a point when it has to lose, any more teaching, affirming that it is the King, It is only playing a role will not suffice its appetite.

Here is when the Upanishads say, that the Self cannot be know, seen, taught or perceived. It will have to give up its sadhana, efforts etc...

It will remain just like a shadow, only when it gives up all its efforts. as it cannot be killed  ... but it will eventually have to give up all its efforts, as it is endless!

Nagaraj

5073
General topics / Re: Mankuthimmana Kagga (Song of Mankuthimma)
« on: March 08, 2009, 08:43:43 AM »
RELATIVE TRUTH

If you say, body is clay-pot, meatball, and repulsive,
What happens to the soul?
What will the soul do if the armor is gone?
Don't do injustice to the body - Mankuthimma

The sweet dreams of the beggar are not untrue
Didn't flour in the pot spill when he kicked it?
Hollow might be happiness and sorrow
But the thorn is sharp for life - Mankuthimma

It is true, though not snake, when a rope rolls down
In the duck, appears slithering, looker sweats with fear
World is also true like that
Don't jeer appearances - Mankuthimma

Can you say beauty and relationships are empty
Won't they increase or reduce life
When men are drowning in a sea
Won't they just hug each other - Mankuthimma

Very many hideous effects are caused to our mind
By world's charm and power
As many truths are there for them in life
Experience is the measure of truth - Mankuthimma

Nagaraj


5074
I understand that Its a paradoxical statements made in my previous posts, I happened to find Bhagawans reply here for the same question that I have raised:

A visitor asked “If the ego or ‘I’ be an illusion who then
casts off the illusion?”

Bhagawan said the ‘I’ casts off the illusion of ‘I’ and yet remains as ‘I’.
This appears to be a paradox to you: it is not so to the
Jnani. Take the case of the bhakta. His ‘I’ prays to the
Lord to unite it with Him, which is its surrender. What
remains as residuum after this surrender, is the eternal
‘I’, which is God the Absolute, Paramatman Himself.
What has happened to the ‘I’, which originally prayed?
Being unreal, it simply vanished.

Nagaraj

5075
Dear Ramana,

Here it has to be noted that the one who tries to work out his Karma is the illusion 'I' not the Pure Self.
One who realizes that vasanas are not him but are the of the body is truly a 'Jnani'

My point is that its this false 'I' that tries and practices over and over again to just watch the vasanas and not do anything. Even to watch your vasanas and not do anything about it is also to do something - To try to not do anything about it! It only appears to the same 'false I' that the intensity of the vasanas are getting reduced!

Important point to note here is that there are no levels to vasanas. either you have vasanas or you dont have vasanas. There is no increase or decrease in vasanas. The 'false I' just relishes in this increase and decrease games of vasanas. the waves will never end. if it increases it will try to decrease it, if it decreases, it will further try to decrease it!

This is the whole agenda of the 'false I' it wants to keep going. It never wants to keep quiet. This very act itself is being impeled by vasanas!

Nagaraj

5076
Dear Srkudai,

Its a valid question you have posted. I feel, after a certain point, that illusion 'You' 'I' cannot do anything. As it is this false 'I' that is binding 'you', it will get destroyed by its self. Like Bhagawan says Who am I thought will destroy every thoughts and finally will destroy itself too.

When such thug of war is going on within, there is a thug of war going on in me as well. Sometimes I feel like crying off thinking Bhagawan, his form, his eyes, his smile, his love... I begin to long for Bhagawan. At a certain point of the Thug of war within, this illusion 'I' has no option but to surrender to Bhagawan. More observation, intellectualization will be of avail to this illusion 'I' This point it will know by default, it cant do anything, simply not in its hands. It has to just wait. It will begin to bear this thug of war within, no matter how strong the thug of war is within, it simply has to but be bearing its own illusion 'self' from here the innermost prayer of the 'I' the illusion will ask Bhagawan to take itself to Bhagawan or be destroyed by Bhagawan (Pure Self) this 'I' would want to give away its life, it will even be ready to give up its life but still it knows not how to give up its life, it cannot commit suicide nor expect anybody to get itself killed -

the illusion 'Self' to be sucked by its own pure Self. There is a quote in some upanishad - He whom the Self chooses, by him the Self is revealed

When you said in your post:

"his hands got interlocked and are holding the tree! so he needs to see how he can leave the hold... rather leave the hold and see!"

He can never see how he can leave the hold. When he begins to try and do whatever, at some point, the thug of war will start anyhow. It cant do anything, it has to die! This 'I' can never win!

What to do? the illusion 'I' has just got to be. It cant just do a thing!

Nagaraj









5077
General topics / Re: Birth, Death and Rebirth
« on: March 07, 2009, 12:02:35 PM »
In the Srimad Bhagavatam, Krishna said to Uddhava thus about death:

The mind combined with 5 indriyas and tendencies derived from Karma which constitute the linga sharira (Subtle Body) transmigrates from one body to another. The Atman though different from the Linga Sharira, also seems to follow it because of the absolute superimposition between them.

The mind of the dying man, swayed by his own actions and their impressions, thinks intensely on experiences he had in life, on what he had seen, heard and passed through. Consequently he feels that he has entered a new body that has manifested by its intense thought, and left the old one. With the coming of the consciousness of the new body, there is complete oblivion of the old body, its history in the world.

On account of the intensity of attraction felt for the new body for whatever reason, the memory of the of one is completely effaced.

Death means this complete forgetfulness of the old body and its affairs by the Jiva.

The acceptance of the new body by the Jiva and his complete identification with it is called birth. How this happens is found in the examples of dreams and reveries. As in these states, the Jiva becomes completely oblivious of the old body and gets identified with the new one. The Identification is absolute that the Jiva forgets its pre-existence and comes to believe that he has come into being with a new body.

When Jada Bharatha saw the infant deer without its mother, he became its caretaker by becoming its mother. then when he realized his mistake, he left the old body as a mother - caretaker and also the infant deer and was born again as a pios Brahmana and attained the lord.

Nagaraj

5078
Yes,

Karmas performed by you without any desires are spontaneous. You will not have any Reminiscences of your actions performed, such actions are  pure. Like you may have pulled up 10 buckets of water from the well in the morning, you may even not remember it, you never felt tired, irritating etc...it was simply pure spontaneous action. Usually such morning chores are pure actions!

Your preparation for exam - studying for hours together are pure actions. when you realize you would have studied for 5 hours and dint even realize that so much time had passed.

Any action which leaves Reminiscences in your mind is Vasana bound.

Nagaraj


5079
General topics / Re: Mankuthimmana Kagga (Song of Mankuthimma)
« on: March 07, 2009, 10:37:14 AM »
FAMILY HAPPINESS

Your grandfather, great grandfather, great great
Grandfather incarnated in you and live in the
Future births of your son, grandson, great grandson
Dynasty is eternal - Mankuthimma

There may be secrets written on your forehead
It shows in the nature and form you see
Touches your soul and makes you
Feel heaven and hell are one - Mankuthimma

Human strength from milk and rice; milk from cows
Fed with grass; grass grows from soil's essence
Like this when one is feeding the other
What is milk? What is feces? - Mankuthimma

During the first hour radiant fragrance of garlands
Next, when stale, smells like filth
Third hour, fades and withers and becomes a thorn
This is the story of family - Mankuthimma

Joy of world's connection seems enough and enough
Just like a plant, when you touch starts itching
Cannot scratch the itch; if scratched, wounds burn
This is like fun of a mute person - Mankuthimma

Nagaraj



5080
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Bhagavad Gita
« on: March 07, 2009, 10:30:21 AM »
Dear Srkudai,

Its a nice post and good explanations. I have read somewhere these words of Bhagawan - first the Self sees itself as objects, then it sees itself as void, then finally it sees itself as Self - here there is no seeing as seeing is becoming.

Nagaraj

5081
General topics / Re: After Ramana who now?
« on: March 07, 2009, 10:17:09 AM »
The time - the moment when you got in touch Bhagawan (or your Guru) He immediately, that very moment has occupied your Self (Pravesham).

Bhagawan always used to tell devotees that God, Guru and the Self are not different, they are all the same. He says, first a person prays to God to fulfill his desires, then a times comes when he does not pray for the fulfillment of his desires, but for God himself, then God appears to him in some form of the other, human or non human, to guide him as a Guru in answer to his prayers.

Bhakthi to your Guru is just not praying alone, but for each moment, thinking how my Guru would have acted for this particular situation, thinking thus, one should introspect. As the Self is now occupied by Bhagawan, that guidance will definetely be there.

Just for example, suppose, you are worried, some incident has happened, you are perplexed. What to do? Think about Bhagawan, how he would have dealt with this situation? your Self (Bhagawan) will reply to you. WHat would bhagawan would have done? He would remain relaxed, these incidents would not have affected Bhagawan. He would have just let it be. What ever happens in the end is for my own good only. Why to worry?

So Bhagawan(or your Guru) is there in us, as our own Self, he will guide us!

Listen to your inner voice, it will never misguide you, it will never tell lies, it always knows the truth, it always knows the right path, it knows everything as Bhagawan is your Self.

Suppose somebody is angry at you? Insulting you? introspect, what would Bhagawan have done for such a situation? He would least care, he would be quiet and would handle patiently and whatever insults is being thrown at you will not bother you. why should it?

This is true Guru Bhakthi

Nagaraj

5082
General topics / Re: Spiritual Practice : some guidelines
« on: March 06, 2009, 08:48:08 PM »
                                       
                                       

Just watching Ramana Maharshi itself is one of the best Spiritual Practice

Nagaraj

5083
General topics / Re: Spiritual Practice : some guidelines
« on: March 06, 2009, 07:03:51 PM »
The greatest of all virtues is to bear with insults and the bad others cause you. Not to lose ones temper.

There is a very beautiful song in Tamil by Kannadasan:

manidhan enbavan deivamAgalam
vAri vAri vazhangumpOdhu vaLLalAgalAm
Vazhai pOla thannai thandhu thyAgiyAgalAm
urugi Odum mezhugu pOla oLiyai veesalAm

manidhan enbavan deivamAgalam
oorukkenRu vAzhntha nenjam silaigaLAgalAm
uRavukkenRu virindha uLLam malargaLAgalAm
yArukkenRu azhudhapOdhum thalaivanAgalAm
manam manam adhu kOvilAgalAm

manidhan enbavan deivamAgalam
manam irundhAl paRAvai koottil mAngaL vAzhalAm
vazhi irundhAl kadugukkuLLE malaiyai kANalAm
thuNindhu vittAl thalaiyil endha sumaiyum thAngalAm
guNam guNam adhu kOvil AgalAm

manidhan enbavan deivamAgalam

I am not so good at translating from tamil to english. If any forum member is interested could translate this into english for the benefit of the members.

Thanks & Regards
Nagaraj

5084
Bad vasanas impel actions also good vasanas impel actions.

"Summa Iru" is neither this nor that.

Nagaraj



5085
Dear Subramanian,

I read all your posts and immensely benefited out of it, words of Bhagawan coupled with Muruganars poetic abilities are nectar really.

What ever you have posted here are your own answers to your own questions in the topic "Why I do not realize the Self"

When you say the "questions in the minds of members" It is actually 'you' alone.


Nagaraj

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