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Messages - Nagaraj

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Dear Karthikeyan,

I have not yet read the book on Sri Ramakrishna published by RK Math. However I have read the story of Sri Ramanuja from different sources.

Sri Ramanuja's reforms were rather too strong for his time. Admitting women and all castes in the maTams. He questioned the authority of Adi Sankara's maTams. There indeed was a lot of ideological opposition. Also he was not prepared to sign the declaration that "nothing is greater than Siva". The aazvaars accepted Siva, but accorded a higher status to Vishnu. Ramanuja considered naadhamuni, aaLavandhaar and the aazhvaars as his spiritual leaders.

Even among the Vaishnavites, there are two groups, one follow Vedanta Desikan of 13th Century and others Sri Ramanuja.

Since I have not read the book, to have a clear understanding, it would be great if you can share the exact text from the book on Sri Ramanuja so that we can investigate for our understanding


Sri Bhashyam is a commentary of Brahma Sutras by Sri Ramanujacharya. Sutras or thread or Aphorism of Para Brahmam.

The Vedas and Upanishads were neatly categorized by Badarayana or Vyasa or Krishnadvaipayana (He is known by these names) Before he categorized the Veda, upanishads etc... the great sages of the yore even before Vyasa, Vashishta, Vishwamitras. It was a time when there was no written record, teaching was only by listening to their Guru. these great sages transfered from generations to generations the sutras or Aphorisms of Brahma Gnana. They are very very abstract aphorisms and are the root of the entire Vedas themselves. Vedas themselves are birthless, Brahma Sutras are considered the roots of the Vedas.

Greats like Shankara, Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarka and few others have written commentary on Brahma Sutras. It is so abstract that it is capable being interpreted in multiple ways. These commentaries were supported with evidences from Upanishads by Shankara, Ramanuja, Madhva etc...

The very fact that it is capable of being interpreted in multiple ways viz. Advaita, Vishishtadvaita, Dwaita proves that ultimate truth can be attained by any of the interpretations!

Sri Ramanuja wrote a commentary on Sutras to as a proof(study) his system of doctrine Vishishtadvaita like Shankaras Advaita.

proof or study here to find out what the Brahma Sutras say finally? do they really convey what the student has understood from the Vedanta!

Shankara through his study of Vedas, understood Advaiata Bhava and through his study of the Sutras, he found that the Brahma Sutras too conveyed the same doctrine of his Advaita

Ramanuja through his study of Vedas, understood the Vishishtadvaita(Qualified Advaita) and through his study of the Sutras, he found that the Brahma Sutras too conveyed the same doctrine of his Vishishtadvaita

Similarly, Anandatheertha or Madhvacharya his doctrine Dvaita

No study of Vedanta is complete without close examination of these Brahma Sutras. They are also called as Nyaya Prasthana or logical standing point of Vedanta.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Go, Without Fear
« on: March 15, 2009, 04:25:29 PM »
Very Beautiful Dear Subramanian, Thanks for sharing this piece, I really enjoyed reading this bit :)


For us, yet to be realized, it appears as though surrender is an effort, but for Bhagawan, its simply a spontaneous action. To surrender is to be absolutely action less, for when we surrender, our actions are not decided by us but by some higher authority. Surrender has to be just once and we completely surrender everything of us, otherwise we are still striving to surrender ourselves. What is called Atma Nivedanam.

To surrender is actually very difficult! it takes utmost strength from ones self to surrender himself completely. It is to kill the ego 'I' its virtually like this ego 'I' committing a suicide!

Some wise person said, a good God is not the one who protects you but God who actually kills you! our ego 'I' so pray not your Kula Deivam but Kola (Killer) deivam


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Miracles Do Happen
« on: March 13, 2009, 10:07:41 PM »
Dear Subramanian,

A small correction in your post, you mentioned "Smt.D.K. Pattammal is a renowned singer, who lived till recently"

Smt DK Pattammal is still alive!


How would Tiru Navukkarasar have felt when he got separated from Jnana Sambandhar. I wonder in todays world if its possible to have that much devotion like the Nayanmars. Is it possible? Such extreme and pure devotion, beyond human grasp! I am always left wonder struck! Throughout their life they have lived in the Bhakthi-Rasam of Siva. Its just unfathomable.

In what which way can I develop a minuscule Bhakthi-Rasam like the Nayanmars, more specially like the Naalvars. O Lord! I am wasting each and every moment of my life! I am incapable of showing any kind of devotion to you, is there any difference between dog and I? O Lord I am verily the worst among even Dogs!


The feeling of a need to work in order to gain happiness is the misery of miseries. How can there be pleasure or removal of pain so long as it continues?

Only those who need not engage in action, are happy; they are perfectly content, and self contained, and they experience a happiness which extends to all the pores of the body

How silly of people with innumerable obligations, ever too busy seeking such moments of pleasure in the world!

Each of them having gained his end feels happy and considers himself blessed as if he had reached the goad of life. I too have been unwittingly imitating them like a blind man following the blind. Enough of this folly! I will at once return to that ocean of mercy - My Master


General topics / Re: Yogi
« on: March 13, 2009, 03:11:28 PM »
To such many similar questions put by devotees to Bhagawan, He says, let the Yogis be aside, first find out if 'you' 'I' exist! because such questions deviate our path and we tend to get lost in such mysteries!


We should thank God that Death is something beyond our control. What is born has to die. Isn't it great irony that we don't bother about our own death but to think about the death of our near and dear ones cause us the maximum sorrow? What actually dies is that lovely life which we have been enjoying all along from the eyes of our near and dear ones. If at all death did not exist, we would permanently delve in the eyes of our near and dear ones and forget ourselves.

Its a mystery! God is great!


General topics / Re: Staying with the Self has been a lonely path
« on: March 13, 2009, 11:02:48 AM »
Dear Matthew,

I have gone through and still going through a similar crises or rice pounding as
we may like to call it! Yes the points you mentioned are so very true. Even I
find it very difficult to keep in touch with people, material pursuits die,
people find me serious, some well wishers concerns bewilder me. Have I gone
crazy? or am I to see this difference positively? is it an advancement or is it a reverse?

The BIG FACT I have come to understand is that there is no help outside! I have
to unearth whatever it is all by myself, and nobody is going to confer a boon,
etc... You get a boon when you are ready!

I have also come to understand that there is no-other at all! everything is in
our mind alone. there are no other persons at all. I am only in your mind. you
are only in my mind! this way I am you, you am I

You mentioned:

In my pursuit of increasing my conviction of the teachings of Ramana I have been
increasingly alienated from the people I commonly encounter.  I live in Canada. 

The thought that you are alienated from people is within you and the people who
you feel alienated you is also you (within you)! The images, the opinions of so called
other people are simply within us. SO they are all you alone

We are all nothing but thoughts. Thoughts = 'You' or 'I'

When you say:

It seems that the things most people love are the things that I am
not interested in, and the the things that I am interested in are the things that most people
want to avoid.

the things people love is also you and the thing you are interested is also you.
How do 'I' know the things other people love? its your own 'my' thought!
and how do 'I' know what most people want to avoid? its again your own
'my' thought!

There is no other at all! It all only you! The one against you and for you is
only you!

When you say:

Even the Buddhist/spiritual people I've met locally seem to be just
as confused and not interested in the kind of spirituality that Ramana talked about as the
average person I encounter.  In fact, I've often found the spiritual people I've
met to be even more self-deceived and distorted. 

Those Buddhist/ spiritual people are also you alone. They seem confused to you
because, there is a confusion within, for there is no outside at all! The opinion
that they themselves are confused is yours alone.

Suppose I say something to you and you read it. you understand it based on your
own thoughts, accumulated knowledge over last thousands of years. Its your own
thoughts  that interpret whatever you gather.

Now note this:

My reply to your post here is a reply to the your own (my) question.
and when you read my response

Its your own response to your own (my) response

I am not there at all. I am in you, and for me you are not there at all, You am in I

What you mention is true, desire for human contact is there. Let it be. Why do you want to get away from human contact?

Dear Matthew

I feel you would immensely benefit by reading one of our previous topics discussed here in this forum

Arunachala Ramana > Ramana Maharshi > The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi > Why do i not realize the Truth ?

The best way to describe it is like this:

'I' am the biggest problem to myself. Ramana says find out this 'I' and you will find that this 'I' is actually non existent!


Dear Karthikeyan,

The Utsavar Vighraham in Sri Rangam Temple is the Kula Deivam (Ranganathar) of Sri Ramachandramurthy. It is believed that these Vighrahas were venerated by the Ikshvakus. Its the same Vighrahas even today!


Being still is to be like a river, just moving upon bumps and rocks and not do anything about these bumps and rocks! finally it will reach the ocean of bliss.

and I feel this instruction is not for the mind, the body or external objects, for they are all not yours. We can never still things which are not really ours. I feel this instruction is for the one who sees(river) the mind(Bumps), body(Rocks) or external objects(Filth)!

The river keeps moving in spite of rocks, bumps and filth. It does not stay put in the rocks of bumps... hence The I is only experiencing those bumps and rocks and moves on. those bumps and rocks are left behind as it moves. the filth gets dissolved soon and disappear when it reaches the ocean.


General topics / Re: Spiritual Practice : some guidelines
« on: March 12, 2009, 08:42:08 AM »
The sensation of Peace or Ananda is the symptom of satsangha

General topics / Re: Mankuthimmana Kagga (Song of Mankuthimma)
« on: March 12, 2009, 08:39:40 AM »

Dog seeing something in the dark and being afraid
Believes there is a friend somewhere
Lifts its neck moaning and barking, jumps.
Our devotion is like that - Mankuthimma

Father did not believe, Prahlada believed
You are an uncertain believer and a nonbeliever
Whether a pillar or reflection, they got salvation
You are a fly in phlegm - Mankuthimma

Behind the experience bigger than me and universe
Behind the shadow of the creation
In man's doubtful search for the greatness of truth
Lies the greatness of humans - Mankuthimma

Just like humans, Gods are roaming and hiding
In Bharath country and in the migrant's faith
God's names and forms are unnumerable
One ocean, millions of waves

If Man doesn't beseech, who sill care for God
If God doesn't keep a secret will humans search for it?
Mutual searching of God and man
Is the grace in creation - Mankuthimma


General topics / Re: Eyes open or closed ?
« on: March 11, 2009, 09:08:09 AM »
Dear Mikrioth,

Bhagawan always said Self is your Guru. As your Self is Bhagawan himself. Listen to your InnerSelf. It will always guide you correctly!


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