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Messages - Nagaraj

4951
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Transitional 'I'
« on: March 31, 2009, 11:46:16 AM »
After having retired for the night, one has first to relax
from the restlessness and the tension of intellectual activity.
When sleep is nearing, one has to try to keep as the last thought
the resolution to meet as the first thing on awakening the
experience of the true ‘I’.

Deep and sincere longing will always succeed in this
experiment, if not immediately then after some attempts. The
first thing emerging from sleep into waking consciousness is
always the true ‘I’ pure, silent, absolute in itself, remaining all
alone for a few seconds, or even longer by practice. Other
thoughts start only a little later, testifying to the little known
fact that ‘Consciousness’ is not necessarily the same as thinking.

What is possible once even for a moment can be extended
by practice. This experiment gives you the advantage that
you now know the aim of endeavour. It will help you in your
further sadhana like leavening in the dough.

Sri Ramana Maharshi called this the ‘transitional I’ and
stressed the importance of this experience:
This transitional ‘I’ is a moment of pure awareness, which
is aware only of itself as ‘I’, pure identity in itself.

The ‘I’-thought’ is only limited ‘I’. The real ‘I’ is unlimited,
universal, beyond time and space. Just on rising up from
sleep and before seeing the objective world, there is a state
of awareness which is your pure Self. That must be known.

The moment you succeed, keep very quiet and observe:
this ‘I’ neither thinks nor wills; it has no qualities, is neither
man nor woman, has neither body nor mind; it has no trace of
the ‘person’ which you thought yourself to be up to now. It is
simply conscious of itself as ‘I am’. Not ‘I am this’, ‘I am
that’ — only ‘I am’.

But beware. It is not your ‘I-person’, who has this
‘I-Consciousness’ as an object, but this Consciousness is your
real ‘I’. This pure be-ing ‘I am’ is the first glimpse of the true
Identity, which is by nature Pure Consciousness.

To make this test of awakening in the morning is important
insofar as one knows afterwards what the goal for which we
embarked looks like. It also makes it easier to recognise it in
other circumstances. Moreover, this silent, alert awareness is
the last experience which the seeker can reach by his own
effort. For when his ‘personal I’ is wiped out, then all his
effort too has automatically reached its end. Where there is
no ‘personal I’ there cannot be any effort. What remains is a
consciousness which no longer feels but is listening within;
no longer thinks, but is silent; no longer wills, but lets happen
what will happen. It is exactly the state which reveals itself as
‘I am’, the true Identity.

Last but not the least it is this great experience of the true
identity of man which turned the schoolboy Venkataraman
into the world famous sage Ramana of Arunachala!

- Sri Ramana Maharshi

4952
Yes the best course is to imitate a Truly realized Guru.

Mind by itself is conditioning. but whether we use the word deconditioning or something else, thats what we are trying to do when we meditate, when we enquire who am I, either voluntarily or involuntarily. we try to condition our mind towards the Guru, which is already conditioned on somethig else. we don't decondition, but again condition it towards a Guru. We should also remember that Mind is not separate form the Self, the Self itself is Mind and Mind itself is Self i.e. Rope and Snake.

We cannot and have no option to operate without our mind. So the best resort is to only imitate a Guru. as we keep imitating a Guru, who himself operates as Self, eventually we condition (decondition) ourselves involuntarily to abide as Self. Like how Nisargadatta Maharaj imitated his Guru for 3 years and became a Guru himself.

Nagaraj

4953
Yes both are employed in finding the source!

I was contemplating today about the Self and following thoughts occurred to me

To be Self is absolutely free. What it is to be absolutely free? It means to be OneSelf. That is one should not be a slave. Slave of any kind!. You do something only for your Self alone and not for anyone, not because someone wants you to do something!

I thought deeply - everybody has desires, we know desires spring from ignorence. But how? I thought further. I took the example of a typical person from an IT industry, for a sincere person has ambitions etc... to do something in life etc... where does this ambition spring forth? for example we know Mr Narayana Murthy, when we for the first time saw him in a TV or directly, being the cynosure of eyes among media, people, among big industrialists, or may be the one close person who admires him so very much. It begins here. We want to be the cynosure of eyes for somebody - media, industrialists, or for even the close person who has a awe for Mr Narayana Murthy. the desire springs here, we also want to be the awe for somebody.

Similarly, in a cinema crazy country like ours, when one sees the Hero with all styles and glamour, wearing the cool googles, the desire springs to be like him, to be like a Shah Rukh Khan or a Rajinikanth, again for whom? they become awe for us because of the attention they get from the media, people and crazy galore that they get. We want all that and we try to become a Shahrukh Khan or a Rajinikanth.

Similarly, is the case even with spirituality, we want to be like Sri Ramana, Sri Ramakrishna or Sri Sarada, or Vivekananda, thinking deeply, off course this desire is good for a Mumukshu but further we must discriminate ourselves and realise that I am trying to be like Ramana, Ramakrishna just like the desire to be a Narayanamurthy, to be a CEO, to be a Super Hero, to be a great devotee like Hanuman, etc...

Thus what happens in that we imbibe all their qualities, like we start behaving like Narayanamurthy, Shahrukh Khan, or a Rajinikanth, etc... some times even like other realised souls without our Self's idea and imagining that would give us all the happiness bliss and we would fulfill the purpose of our lives!

This this is so subtle, that we may not even become aware ourselves whom are we imitating, imbibing. It begins right from our childhood, our parents tell us we should become a scientist like Einstein, become a Hero like Kamal Hassan, become the President like Abdul Kalam etc... we get lost then, we forget our Self then and there and begin to focus on our objective!

Most popular is young people easily pick up the qualities of the street smart guys who is able to handle things in a heoric way, or in a very comedy way and gets attention of the people. This begins in school.

In all this, we forget to be ourselves. We are not any of them above, we cannot be anybody! We are but ourselves!

Thus I came to conclusion, that to abide as Self is to be free from some of the above or similar misconceptions and be independently as the Self alone! How to abide as Self - By not trying to be like somebody!

The best course is to imitate a Truly realized Guru, because imitating a truly realized Guru would only lead us to our Self for he operates himself as a pure Self alone where as the others operate from a different perspectives. I decided to the best of my abilities, I would each time, each moment think what Bhagawan would do for this situation, this moment, what would he be thinking about, what would be the best response for something to somebody, how would be bear insults, how he would remain calm even during testing times, how he is able to show the smile even with pain.

I also realized, that the problems of Samsara also arise out of being somebody else. there is no samsara when we dont be somebody else and just be. The best answer or to understand "Just Be" or "Summa Iru" is I felt to not be somebody else and just be! it makes more sense now!

To Abide as Self is to not to abide as Somebody's Self - off course both are the same Self, thats the whole problem! the same Self trying to be some other Self! Its not possible, the Self can only be itSelf!

This whole thing is so subtle, we need to just find out all that we are imitating, when we find the source of all our existing responses we would be able to trace it to somebody else. once we come to know it it looses its grip and we get closer to the Self.

What they call genes is only this, we primarily imitate our parents, grandparents, bulk part of our personality is not us - the Self but of our parents, grand parents and then the society, people, friends.

WE CONDITION OURSELVES TO SOMEBODY'S OPINIONS

This I concluded!

Nagaraj



4954
General topics / Re: some questions -
« on: March 30, 2009, 11:38:51 PM »
One who desires the Self is "Mumuksha"

Nagaraj

4955
General topics / Re: some questions -
« on: March 29, 2009, 07:12:28 PM »
What is called Samsara... is like the vast Himalayas. I feel being crushed under it. I am unable to bear the burden of Samsara.

Nagaraj

4956
General topics / Re: some questions -
« on: March 29, 2009, 07:01:41 PM »
Dear all,

Thanks to one and all for all your wise words. I found each post soothing and calming like a balm. I am in midst of crisis from all angles of life, I was more venting it out!

Sometimes in crises one does not even know how to surrender to Sri Ramana. Its an abyss! Absolute darkness!

Thanks once again to one and all  :)

Nagaraj



4957
General topics / Re: some questions -
« on: March 29, 2009, 12:30:57 AM »
Sometimes I also feel, I should stop my quest and keep all my books and spirituality in some box and just be... just doing my daily routine and chores... conventionally get entangled in worldly life and just wait for it to happen to me.... Bhagawan was completely engrossed in worldly life before he realised.... he used to play to his hearts content... etc...

but again another thought runs... if I get entangled in worldly life... I am getting father away from spirituality....

?????

Nagaraj

4958
General Discussion / Re: U G Krishnamurti
« on: March 29, 2009, 12:24:51 AM »
Infact.... UG's quest for realisation ended only after his meeting with Ramana in 1949. some one takes him to Sri Ramana and UG asked him "This thing Realisation!..... Can you give it to me? for which Sri Ramana replied "Yes... I can give it to you! ... But are you ready to take it?


This respose from Sri Ramana ended all his quest and search for realisation....

At one point of time, he met the 35th Acharya of Sringeri and spoke to him about his Kundalini experience what he calls calamity, what we can call as his death experience. which was acknowledged by the 35 Acharaya of Sringeri that even his Guru Sri CHandrashekhara Bharathi had related to him similar experiences...

UG had a desire to stay in solitude for the rest of his life and the Acharya also told that he could make arrangements in Sringeri itself but by doing that he can never think of getting the solitude that he wants because people would however begin to flock over him whereever he may go.

He then decided that whereever he is, He should tell exactly the way it is.... and not put any ingredients to what it IS

Nagaraj

4959
General Discussion / Re: U G Krishnamurti
« on: March 29, 2009, 12:13:45 AM »
Very rightly put Dear Matthew, we need all kinds of people and they all serve some purpose. I also have the same feeling that UG has helped me in my Self enquiry.

Its true, most people who are interested in spirituality are really trying to find an easy out. But isn't it natural? after all every one wants to be happy always in bliss... here and now this moment....

The core of whatever UG stood for can be summarised as.... "whatever you are doing to realise is actually taking you farther away from it.."

Nagaraj

4960
General topics / some questions -
« on: March 29, 2009, 12:03:16 AM »
I have some questions... I am aware its born out of despair... maybe some sort of urgency...

1.  Bhagawan realised in spite of any desire to realisation. He did not even have and idea about realisation but still whatever happened to him is absolutely involuntary. Why did it happen to him?
2.  Bhagawan had death experience when he realised Brahman. Does everyone undergo some kind of death experience to realise? it need not be the case I feel.

What is true? Dvaita or Advaita or Visishtadvaita?

1   Is there anything apart from me? is there a GOD apart from me? - Dvaita for I should pray to him and win his grace to realise myself?
2   Is there the Higher Authority? and am I small part of him? - Visishtadvaita for I should pray for that Higher authority so that he graces small part of himself?
3   Am I myself the only resort? No one there at all? Am I to search the SELF all by myself?

What am I to do?

When Bhagawan realised, he never bothered about Dvaita, Visishtadvaita or Advaita. It just happened to him even without his wanting it.

Is realisation granted only to the unwanting souls?

Many say Bhagawan had already worked out all his Karmas in his past birth, is there rebirth in reality in conventional terms? or it just happened to Bhagawan just like that?

What do we believe and what do I not believe? What do I do?

My enquiry does not seem to work for me... (Its more out of despair, I know I need to work more, but....)

what to do? what to not do? how to just be? Who am I... I know the immediate answer from myself... find out this 'I' and and it will get merged into the eternal 'I' but.... its not happening... (maybe I have not enquired enough but)

Why has this sprung... why has there a need to realise been created... if we are already that SELF always... I dont understand anything...

I just hope and pray dvaitically advaitically visidhtadvaitically.....

Nagaraj

4961
Turia is not that which is conscious of the internal subjective world
nor that which is conscious of the external objective world
nor that which is a mass all sentiency
nor that which is simple consciousness
nor that which is insentient
It is unseen by any sense organ
not related to anything
incomprehensible by mind
uninferable
unthinkable
indestructible
essentially of the nature of consciousness constituting the Self alone,
negation of all phenomena
the peaceful, all bliss and the non dual

This is what is known as Turia. This is the Atman and it has to be realised.

- Mandukyopanishad.




4962
General topics / Re: insight into gestalttherapy
« on: March 28, 2009, 10:51:51 PM »
Basically what I understand from your descriptions is that some kind of relaxation takes place, voluntarily, then in that peace, one comes face to face with realities of your own self in the world and in the process one for the first time sees the reality in its fullest and accept it as it is, regulating oneself, adjusting oneself naturally so as to be normal, viz. to accept things as they are.

In terms of scriptures, it is totally accepting the higher authority as the doer of all actions and not us. IT is said that not even a leaf would move without the Will of the Supreme.

If one is totally able to accept this, it amounts to absolute surrender. Surrender to ones own Self.

Here in India, every typical Indian inclined spiritually, everyday chants some shlokas as a habit, it deep essence is accepting an higher authority and praying for his grace. I believe these habits by itself constitute various therapy's by themselves. For example the most common prayer chanted by everyone is this:

Asathomah Satgamayah Lead me from untruth to truth
Tamasomah Jyothirgamayah Lead me from darkness to light
Mrityormah Amrithamgamayah Lead me from death to immortality

Subconsciously we intrinsically accept an higher authority. thats why when one prays really sincerely, one is able to experience peace.

The matter to note specially here is SINCERITY.

When we have Satsangh we naturally become Sincere in our effort in participation. I feel thats the same case with you Matthias, being in a therapy as you have stated is one kind of Satsangh and in front of the therapist, you involuntarily become very sincere.

Nagaraj

4963
When Sita was asked who was her husband among the
rishis (Rama himself being present there as a rishi) in the forest,
by the wives of the rishis, she denied each one as he was pointed
out to her, but simply hung down her head when Rama was
pointed out. Her silence was eloquent.

Similarly, the Vedas also are eloquent in neti-neti (not this,
not this) and then remain silent. Their silence is the Real State.
This is the meaning of exposition by silence. When the source
of the ‘I’-thought is reached it vanishes and what remains is the
Self.

- Sri Ramana

4964
General topics / Description of Celestial Worlds
« on: March 28, 2009, 05:44:35 PM »
Maitreya says- "O Brahmin! Kindly narrate now about the celestial worlds and the position of stars and planets
there."

Parashar says- At a height of 1,00,000 Yojans above the earth is the sphere of the Sun. 1,00,000 Yojans above it
is the sphere of the Moon and 1,00,000 Yojans above it is the sphere of the stars.
At a height of 2,00,000 Yojans above, the sphere of stars is Buddh (Mercury) and 2,00,000 Yojans above it is
Shukra (Venus). Above Venus are Mangal (Mars), Brihaspati (Jupiter), and Shani (Saturn) at respective heights of
2,00,000 Yojans each. 1,00,000 Yojans above the Saturn is Saptarishi and 1,00,000 Yojans above it is the sphere
of Dhruv. It appears as the centre of a bright ring.

One crore Yojans above Dhruv is Maharloka where sages like Bhrigu etc. live. Two crore Yojans above
Maharloka is Janaloka where Brahma’s sons Sanakaadi Kumars live. At a height of 8,00,00,000 Yojans above
Janaloka is Tapaloka live deities named Vairaaj who are never consigned to flames. Twelve crore Yojans above
Tapaloka is Satyaloka which is also known as Brahmaloka. Only immortal beings live there.

- Vishnu Purana


Nagaraj



4965
General topics / Purpose of Holding Vedas
« on: March 28, 2009, 05:37:58 PM »
Brahmaji is also shown as holding Vedas is one of his hands why? It is natural to be curious about it. Vedas are
undoubtedly the most ancient scriptures in the word. Even the great deluge (Pralaya) could not destroy Vedas for
almighty Brahma himself had taken incarnation to save Vedas during deluge. Hence Vedas have no beginning
and no end. Besides Vedas also remind Brahmaji of the previous Kalpa (the grand period that includes all the four
Yugas). Vedas also teach us that everything is destructible, only the truth can not be destroyed. Hence in the
carnation of destructible body, never forget the indestructible, eternal, almighty Paramatma because every other
thing in the world is bound to be destroyed one day.

Nagaraj