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Messages - Nagaraj

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General Discussion / Re: My pilgrimage to Tiruvanaikka, Srirangam
« on: April 05, 2009, 12:08:38 PM »
Dear Munagala,

Yes, in olden days Brahmins had to learn Astrology as a part of their learning. But their learning was more duty bound i.e. for making Yagnas, Homas, to determine the good time/Nakshatras for Homas.

Astronomy examines the position of the planets and other heavenly bodies. It does not concern itself with how they affect the life of the world or the individual. It is not its function to find out how far the celestial bodies are beneficial to us or how they may be made favourable to us. Such functions belong to astrology. Jyotisa includes both astronomy and astrology.

Telling us about the results of performing a ritual at a given time, keeping in mind the position of the planets, the sun and the moon and the naksatras ( asterisms ), comes under the purview of astrology. The hours favourable to the performance of Vedic rites are determined according to calculations based on the movement of planets. All this entails mathematical work.

The measurements of the place where a sacrifice is to be conducted (yajnabhumi) are based on certain stipulations. These must be strictly adhered to if the sacrifices is to yield the desired benefits. Mathematics developed in this way as a handmaid to the Vedic dharma.

 - Sri Chandrashekhara Saraswathi (Kanchi Paramacharyal, in Deivathin Kural)

The predictive astrology only came in recent era. Only under some undue circumstances would one look into the predictive astrology. Like when a new King is to be throned, or some cases when the Acharyal is looking for a successor. It was only used in such circumstances. Only in recent era people have come to believe Horoscope reading as Vedic Astrology.  etc... its all mis interpreted.


General Discussion / Re: My pilgrimage to Tiruvanaikka, Srirangam
« on: April 05, 2009, 12:16:36 AM »
Dear Karthikeyan,

There are millions of astrologers in and around all cities of India. If you ask me, out of my own experiences I would suggest you not to check with astrologers about your future. Just let it be, Let it come, Pray and hope for the best, live every moment in excitement. I was fortunate to meet a great Jnani/Sanyasi/astrologer who was more than 105 yrs old some 3 years ago. He was a Trikalajnani. He was able to tell everything about me and others in my family, even the description of my house, location and also ow much money one has in his pocket. He is no more. But he told us one thing, in spite of he himself being an astrologer, knower of Jyothisha Shastra, He advised us all not to visit any astrologer as Astrology is false and don't believe in it. Rather, Believe in God, Put faith in God. He said every moment, the Fate of a person changes based on the Karmas that he performs.

On the other hand, if it is out of excitement, to know about this great science etc... if you really wish you could try it. As per my understanding, even in the days of the yore, the great Sages never used predictive astrology for any humans unless the circumstances really needed them. Astrology originated from Astronomy. No where in the Vedas is anything mentioned about predictive astrology. Infact, Here in Karnataka, where most Rig Vedis live, they even don't have this Rahu Kalam, Yama Kandam, etc... This was testified by my Veda Teacher, who is very well versed and a very learned man. This thing originated only in recent era mostly from the Tamil Nadu. Infact, the real Vedic tradition one should not even look for Horoscope matches, He said in olden days they used to only look at the family, their traditions and values in search of grooms or bridegrooms. a girl and boy used to marry only for the sole reason to carry out the Vedic traditions, to live life the VEdic way. To uphold the VEdic Dharma. Today, marriage has become convinience. Off course, times have changed, not to criticize.

I also suggest you to read further, Sri Ramana's teachings,

Once a devotee asked Bhagawan :“What is my future?”

First Bhagavan said, “Why does he bother about the
future and not the present?” Later he added: “Tell him his
future will be as his present is.”

If you know the present you will know the
future. It is strange that people don’t want to know about the
present, about whose existence nobody can have any doubt,
but are always eager to know about the past or the future,
both of which are unknown.

on another occasion:

D.: What is the best thing to do for ensuring the future?
M.: Take care of the present, the future will take care of itself.

Another one

What do they all mean? Leave alone what they say of
the past or of the future; for it is only speculative. But the present
existence is within the experience of all. Realise the pure Being.
There is an end to all discourses and disputes.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 04, 2009, 11:52:49 PM »
You are correct Dear Udai, Vairagya cannot be an effort, as you say, when there is complete understanding/clarity, vairagya is the result, Dispassion arises out of true knowledge and when this true knowledge arises and there is complete understanding/clarity one is able to abide as Self!

I have read in some upanishad. it goes something like this (Just a vague description)

He who thinks knows it, actually knows not it
He who thinks knows not it, actually knows it

I feel this bit about Vairagya is very important and key for any spiritual. I kept forgetting it, I am reminded again :)

I am once again reminded about your question to Sri Suddhananda -

Q: Is intellectual understanding enough or do we need to practice?
A: With Self... understanding is practicing. if someone is not able to practice, it means he has not understood it.

Where it seems that Vairagya is not possible, there is not a 100% understanding i.e. clarity. Knowledge = understanding/clarity. where Knowledge <> Undestanding/clarity,  its not yet a knowledge Enquiry continues there!



Dear Udai,

:) Its really very inspiring to read your experiences. Pure Consciousness - I am reminded about the Mahavakya - Prajnanam Brahma - "Consciousness is Brahman" which appears in the Aitareya Upanishad of the Rig Veda.


General Discussion / Re: How to manage profession and spirituality
« on: April 04, 2009, 07:23:32 PM »
Blackberry is available here as well. My brother uses it and he receives call even when he is in deep sleep from abroad! My sister in law keeps telling that it has become a menace. He usually has conf calls which sometimes even lasts for an hour also!!! Its like you know blackberry has become his best friend and companion  :D  He may forget anything else but not his blackberry!!

General Discussion / Re: How to manage profession and spirituality
« on: April 03, 2009, 10:39:44 PM »
Dear Munagala,

I guess its the same issue with everyone. I was working in an MNC and found myself in exact situation, though I am not yet married. I realised I am not getting any happiness or peace anyway. Neither through Hard work in the office nor was I able to spend quality time at home. the official work kept chasing me even at home. Then there is Rat race at work. It turned out to be crazy. A question raised within me - How much is enough? so what if I become a CEO tomorrow? how different will it be then?

I decided this is not what I want out of my life. Working become more a social compulsion rather work for simple living. Then, if promotion did not come at right time, people wonder how long one is in the same position. This rat race is really maddening.

Hence I decided one day and, I quit my job, I have an elder brother well placed in a company.  The work became more an obligation for me. What for was I working? to earn nice money, get a decent designation and get a good girl to settle down in life???? I realised I did not want ant of these? so why was I working? I realised I was working on social compulsion and pressure, because as per the societal culture this is how one has to live ones life. It was ridiculous to me.

Thereafter I kept getting a lot of job opportunities and even now I keep getting them But I don't pay heed to them. Just to make a decent living and have some earning I decided to start a small business. By God's grace, my brother  has agreed to help me set up my business.  I am in the process of setting up! I have totally let whatever happen to me! Initially I found it very difficult. But now I am able to manage myself with some activities. Atleast in my business I can be as I am, no rat race just answerable to my own conscience!

On the other hand there are certain unavoidable circumstances I have had to face after quit my job. But I just pray to Sri Ramana to help me! Show me the way. It took me a mammoth effort to convince my parents especially my mother. indeed they are worried as I am unlike my other counterparts. Even now I am setting up a business only for the sake of my parents. Also They are worried about my being very much inclined spiritually, the worry what if I run away and become a sanyasi, But I am unable to convince them that I am no where near to even Sanyasam. I have a very long way to go. But they are more worldly people. I am finding it difficult to strike a balance between my spirituality and managing my family. What they expect out of me is totally different from my inclinations!

Like you mentioned in your other post Worldly desire -

We acquire worldly possessions inorder to be happy. does happiness increase with increase of of our possessions?
No. Actually the happiness decreases with increase in wordly possesisons.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 03, 2009, 07:10:13 PM »
Very True Dear Subramanian,

But for His infinite grace, we shall not be discussing all these. Really I feel so blessed to be here in this Forum Satangh, to be sharing heart and mind with good souls here in this forum. I felt nice by reading your post. :)

Perseverence, continued perseverence in practice is the only way for this drunker monkey  :D


General topics / Re: Saiva Siddhanta Concept Texts
« on: April 03, 2009, 06:58:48 PM »
I think Annamalai university and few other universities also have a 2 year correspondence course on Saiva Siddhanta.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 03, 2009, 06:53:50 PM »
Dear Udai,

Its true what you said. Just that here in me, the Vairagya to hold on to the knowledge that I am only the actor is not concrete enough. Each moment I shoud just practice remembering my real nature like for Eg. this moment as I type this, I am only the role who is responding here and I am untouched!

Need the grace and blessings of Sri Ramana


Dear Udai, Subramanian,

Thanks for your posts. I was just trying to convey the same thing. Yes Bhagawan and Shankara respectively have conveyed the real essence of the attitude one should have. These Ashtangas i.e. Yama, Niyama, etc... - I was just trying tell that these things are by default achieved by whatever Sadhana one pursues, the end of Yoga is to achieve that equipoise, to achieve at that Sukhasana to sit comfortably for long periods forgetting ones own body. similarly, when one just watches his breath alone, the objectives of Ashtanga are naturally achieved, when one watches ones own breath, his breath becomes natural, which is the goal of Pranayama, when ones enquires into himself, he will by default develop the qualities of Yama and Niyama. As the practice increases one achieves Prathyahara Dharana and Dhyana and finally one gets established in Samadhi.

I would'nt deny that I am incomplete. Yes some sort of incompleteness exists. I seem to find no specific reason for it. If God willing, If it happnes I would love to meet Sri Suddhananda. I did check out his website and I found him inspiring. Am just faithfully waiting for a Guru. They say the Guru comes when the disciple is ready. perhaps I am not yet ready! only rare souls like Sri Ramana, Dhathathreya did not even require a Guru. I have visited some Gurus. The Shankaracharya of Sringeri and Shakatapuram are the only Gurus I have met. But when I stand in front of them, I find myself humbled, I am unable to talk with their holiness. I feel I am not yet ready even to talk to a Guru. Each time I visit Sringeri, usually I have a lot of clarifications and questions to ask. But when I see Him, a voice within somes up - Do I even need to tell my questions to Guru? Who am I after all to ask questions, I am far less matured spiritually than several others who are able to converse with the Guru at ease.

I am just waiting. What could be more auspicious than to serve a Guru day and night? I just pray.  God willing, I will be able to meet Sri Suddhananda.

Its like you know, when the mother leaves the small baby alone and the Baby simply cries and cries to see the mother and get in her folds.


On the same topic, here is one more song from Tayumanave, its very beautiful

One Thought

To be thinking not any thought
Is transcendental meditation they say.
That is the state of grace.
Grace comes from meditation.
It is the state of absence of self-consciousness.

The state of Grace kindles Bliss.
The nature of Bliss is Bliss itself.
Beyond it is nothing.
Only those who have attained that Bliss
Have become birthless.

All the rest is known
As wife, children, relations
And other tainted attachments.
In a word,
They are but expressions of desire.

 - Tayumanavar

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 02, 2009, 08:04:31 PM »
Its the role that plays and not the Self. But if the roles is fixed like a cinema then no one will contest your role. But in the roles that we play all the other characters in the movie are demanding a different role of the same character at the same time. I am playing the role but since each of the other roles are demanding a different role of the character the role does not really know which role to play in the end. in the end it is becomes a bad performance.

If the role of the son is 'philosopher son' or a 'good son' if this is what the mother role wants then there is no problem but the if the mother role wants you to play some other role, and others want you to play a different son role?

I feel we have to cease playing even the roles. it is short lived. for even to play a role is also a desire. the desire to keep the mother character happy!


Dear Subramanian,

I feel in Jnana Marga, these Ashtanga mentioned is involuntarily achieved and leads one to Samadhi without necessarily with the awareness of the person.


  Ahimsa: non-violence, inflicting no injury or harm to others or even to one's ownself, it goes as far as nonviolence in thought, word and deed.
  Satya: truth in word & thought.
  Asteya: non-covetousness, to the extent that one should not even desire something that is not his own.
  Brahmacharya: abstain from sexual intercourse; celibacy in case of unmarried people and monogamy in case of married people. Even this to the                 extent that one should not possess any unholy thoughts towards any other man or woman except one's own spouse. It's common to associate   Brahmacharya with celibacy.
  Aparigraha: non-possessiveness

Niyama refers to the five observances
  Shaucha: cleanliness of body & mind.
  Santosha: satisfaction; satisfied with what one has..
  Tapas: austerity and associated observances for body discipline & thereby mental control.
  Svadhyaya: study of the Vedic scriptures to know about God and the soul, which leads to introspection on a greater awakening to the soul and God within,
  Ishvarapranidhana: surrender to (or worship of) God.

Asana: Discipline of the body: rules and postures to keep it disease-free and for preserving vital energy. Correct postures are a physical aid to meditation, for they control the limbs and nervous system and prevent them from producing disturbances.

Pranayama: control of breath. Beneficial to health, steadies the body and is highly conducive to the concentration of the mind. Similarly when we just observe our breath, the breathing is normalized.  any how the purpose is achieved.

Pratyahara: withdrawal of senses from their external objects.

Dharana: concentration of the citta upon a physical object, such as a flame of a lamp, the mid point of the eyebrows, or the image of a deity.

Dhyana: steadfast meditation. Undisturbed flow of thought around the object of meditation (pratyayaikatanata). The act of meditation and the object of meditation remain distinct and separate.

Samadhi: oneness with the object of meditation. There is no distinction between act of meditation and the object of meditation.

In what ever way one goes Bhakti Marga, Yoga Marga Jnana Marga or even Karma Marga, these Ashtanaga are, either voluntarily or involuntarily reached. All though one need not learn intensely the Asanas and all, the basic Asanas i.e. to sit in Sukhaasana is also achieved only after Yama Niyama.

These Ashtangas are the ingredients to Samadhi or is natural to the enlightened person.


General Discussion / Re: The Elections are coming!
« on: April 02, 2009, 05:42:51 PM »
Dear Subramanian,

Even my uncles and parents also have seen this Nadi Astrology and I have the same thing to share what you have mentioned. Somehow I stopped myself from seeing it. I have also been successful. Something stopped me from jumping into it?

I feel Nadi Astrology is 100% accurate on Past details but the future predictions seem little skeptical to me. It is said that the fate a person keeps changing every minute. When we do Giri Pradakshina we burn all our Past Karmas but new ones are born there after depending on our actions. Also a very saintly person once told us don't believe Astrology, It is wrong, signifying that God's will is the ultimate authority. There are several instances in my family when events turned out to be opposite in spite of the Horoscope reading because of Faith towards God and sincere prayer or Shraddhai.

But this whole bit seems very exciting. A Japanese visitor once came to see Nadi Astrologer and he was told that he would die at age 53 or so. He got very panicky. I hope all is well with that gentleman. But amazingly the Nadi Astrologer was able to tell his name, Parents and Brothers and sisters and other details.... :)


Dear Udai,

What you say is very true. being the Substratum of all the activities is to abide and remember the Self constantly! I saw this documentary I think around the months of Jan - Feb 2008

I have been moving round and round or like the waves up and down for equipoise. I know I am just dabbling myself intellectually. sometimes I feel I am even the simple layman innocent person is far ahead of me spiritually, the person does not even understand anything. Such implicit faith. The person reads the Sai Sat Charitra every day and says (mara Manda) roughly translated as 'my dull headed brain' does not understand a word of what is written in the book but I just read it because I know Baba will bless me take care of me. I can die but I can never get such simple faith in me.

This journey to know more and more is always continuing. It is never ending. What is meditation after all? infact even this moment as I am typing this post I am concentrated in this topic of meditation, the mind is focussed on this subject. Time passes and then when it ends the mind dabbles thinking about Sri Ramana and Tiruvannamalai, etc... The mind is constantly engaged. What does it seek? The seeking has to end! Sri Ramana says Meditation is your true nature. sometimes I wonder what is meditation after all. Is it to sit in solitude and enquire, is it to sit and do Japa, is it to be engaged in some work not knwing the time pass by, is it to keep chanting some mantra always, is it to be close to nature and be aware the air touch you, is it to be sensitive to the smell of the nature, is it to to feel the ground softly when we walk step by step feelingly, is it to show love and care towards fellow humans, is it to think some beauty like Arunachala Krishna Rama? In a way all of the above are types of meditation suiting each ones abilities.

But anything which is not constant cannot be your true nature, it has to last permanently being the substratum. all the above kinds of meditations seem temporary for me, as its happening in Chitta - Imagination.

I don't seem to know what my question is after all, what am I really seeking? all the knowledge that I have gained is as good as the pile of waste even though I am aware of the possible answers myself for the doubts raised. This seems to be beyond the dirt. the dirt has to be wiped out!

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