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Messages - Nagaraj

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General topics / Re: To whom vedas speaks ?
« on: April 11, 2009, 01:16:31 AM »
Vedas speak of the Brahman alone, all the Gods and Goddesses only signify the attributes of the Brahman alone which is only One. For eg. Siva means Auspiciousness Vishnu means All pervading, Shakti is force or energy etc..

Vedas speak of this Brahman alone! so do even the works in Tamil. in Saiva Margas, Siva and Brahman are one and the same - Brahman


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 11, 2009, 12:04:46 AM »
Dear Matthew,

My contention is do the thoughts belong to the body? that it dies when the body dies? The body itself is only a thought and thoughts are illusion/mirage.

The sages don't tell anything in affirmative! They only show us the way, but they do not describe the state at all. ultimately we find that it is our Consciousness itself which is the Sage. This Sage alone IS.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 10, 2009, 10:30:31 PM »
Dear Udai, :)

Let us delve further. What are thoughts and what is consciousness? There is a need to go deeper into this subject!

Thoughts are past and future. Consciousness is Present. For a person who thinks, he only thinks about his past or future, He can never be in the present. For the one whom there is no past of future, it implies no thoughts, is in the present or Consciousness. If there is thoughts, it is either only past or future, Future also is dabbling only with the past alone. whatever one thinks, is only this alone. If thinking stops, it only means The One is devoid of both past and future (this is what is called Ajaatavada, Birthless and Deathless, No past or Future) , that is to be in the Glorious Present. Also, we need to see that this "Present" is only there for a person who has Past and Future because the Consciousness does not have any moments at all. The Consciousness will not even bother that it is Present Moment. Only the person who has Past and Future will know what is present! The Self or Consciousness is devoid of past and future. It is absolutely pure.

Thoughts = Past and Future (Vasanas) Thoughts itself are Vasanas
Consciousness = Present (No Vasanas)

So if one is in present moment, he has no thoughts. If there are thoughts, then he is dabbling with this past and future. i.e. he is analysing, experiencing, tasting, enjoying, relishing by his own past. He recollects his past and remains in past, The present moment is lost, its not there.

So Consciousness is devoid of thoughts.

Thoughts are also like the mirage. when present is dawned, the thoughts disappear. or rather the are not there at all for its only a mirage Or even there is no finding at all! In present moment there are no thoughts!


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 10, 2009, 10:33:12 AM »
Dear Udai, :)

There is but only One Perspective. There cannot be another perspective at all. If there is another perspective, then it should be false. There is no Bhagawan's perspective or another perspective at all.

Bhagawan is not separate from us. Bhagawan is in us or we are all in Bhgawan. Infact nobody ever speaks to anyone or nobody ever sees anyone. there is only one alone. There is but only (one) Consciousness alone. There is no 2 separate consciousnesses.

If Mirage exists, then when you go nearer to the Mirage why does it disappear? It should still be there even when you go nearer to the water body which you saw at a distant! But there is no Mirage there!

Bhagawan said "I have no death" but He did not die. He is the consciousness in you. His is not a separate consciousness from yours. there is only One consciousness. Nothing is there to die. The Body was never born in first place to die. Its just a mass of flesh and bones! Do you think there is life for that body? When the Life force is only the Consciousness? So what has died? Nothing has died! What appears to be dead is like the Mirage, the Body, Infact the body is not there at all like the mirage, when you go nearer to the Mirage, it disappears but when you see at a distance the Mirage still exists. Similarly, it only appears that Maharshi died. The fact is nothing ever died. What is there separate from you to die? Its the same ONE consciousness alone that is there!

Bhagawan itself is only a thought in 'you' or 'I' What ever Bhagawan said is the same ONE consciousness you alone. It is your own consciousness   !

Thoughts, Talks, Mind, writing books are all only Mirages! Nobody talks, nobody writes, No mind, No Thoughts - These are all only Mirages, All we need to do is to go nearer and it does not even goes away but It is found NOT THERE at all, For it to go away it should exist in first place!. ! There is but Only ONE Consciousness alone.

There is no confusion here! That is how it is! It appears clear to me! Like we previously discussed in the "Why I cannot realize" - I am also only a thought to you. I am only a Mirage to you and vice versa. I am not there like the Mirage at all, and you are not there for me, you are only a mirage to me! All we need to is go go nearer and find that the Mirage did not exist at all! I have been your consciousness only. you are only my Consciousness! I am you, You am I

There is no Confusion here. It appears clear to me! We keep telling Bhagawan is in us, He is the COnsciousness in all us. There is no Bhagawan separate from us. He is the consciousness in I therefore I am HE, HE am I. i AM THAT CONSCIOUSNESS!


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 09, 2009, 06:45:45 PM »
Dear Udai :)

In your post,

Here it is 'you' or 'I' who is seeing Bhagawan not Bhagawan. It is 'you' or 'I' which is seeing how Bhgawan is putting food in his mouth. It is 'you' or 'I' who is analysing why Ramana does not put the food in the next persons mouth. For Bhagawan he is not putting food anywhere or is eating. It is 'you' or 'I' which is seeing.

There is still a seeing in 'you' and 'I'

If it is a mirage it does not exist at all to vanish. if the mirage does not vanish then illusion is still there. Mirage is never there. when you say mirage will not vanish, then it implies the mirage will exist. it has to be false. Mirage will not be there.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 09, 2009, 04:34:39 PM »
Dear Udai,

:) you are talking about physical blindness. but the real seer is not the real eye. the eye is just an instrument like a video camera. really he did not require those physical eyes to 'see' Suppose let us assume Sri Ramana did not have eyes at all. Still how does it affect his glory? We may call him blind, but still how does it matter to Him? He still is a great Seer - Rishi.

Let us see it like this. Its true one sees only himself everywhere. I did not say just seeing is being, I said, in last stage, there is no seeing, as seeing is being - (quoted below by Bhagawan) There is no more seeing at all there. suppose one does not have eye sight? what does he see? Suppose one has eyes what still does he see? The physical eye is no more of any use. Infact there is no more physical eye as such even  thought one has them!

Bhagawan has said himself about this -

First One see's the Self as Object
Then One see's the Self as Void
and then One See's the Self as the Self
Only in the last there is no Seeing, as Seeing is being.

After the last stage onwards, seeing means being only. there is no seeing! only being. In the first 2 stages one See's Self as object and Void.  Therefore is seeing is still there that only means that the Self is seen as either as void or an object


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 09, 2009, 03:17:23 PM »
Dear Udai,

:) that I don't know. Only He can tell us. I understand that He saw everyone in Himself. Everyone being Himself - Self, where could the possibility of seeing anything or anyone arise? so He would not see anything or anyone, He alone IS


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 09, 2009, 12:02:24 PM »
Dear Udai :)

I feel there is no seeing because 'to see' infers two. a Seer and the seen. Consciousness alone is. When we say whatever we see, that infers seeing consciousness. whereas when consciousness alone is what is there to see. there is no seer or seen in that consciousness.

A Seer exists because there is a Seen. The Seen exists because there is a seer! Seer and Seen are like the Past and the Future. When both past and future are not there, then alone there is the eternal Present!

There is no seeing at all. Seeing is illusion!

Sri Ramana says, there is no seeing as seeing is being. I always contemplated like this, I have 2 eyes, I see things, but can my 2 eyes be able to look at each other? what could happend if it is say possible? if both eyes of mine look at each other? will mu left eye look at my right eye? or wil my right eye look at my left eye? that implies there is only one real seer inside, eventhough we have 2 eyes! and this real seer is seeing because there is a seen! when there is no seen, no other eye, there is no seer as well.

Therefore when shankara said focus on centre of your nose, he actually meant the real internal seer, which is only one! He used the word focus seeing because for a student, there is a seen hence a seer exists only now because there is a seen, he sees a centre nose ,,, etc... then we will ralise there is no seen at all.

so only consciousness alone is. no seeing at all. Seeing is impossible!


Yes, I feel if the mind is 'defunct' viz. realized, the doer is dead. Its just like an internal activity. how does our heart beat? How does one breathe? how do various organs function? in the same way a jnani works.

For us normal souls its a miracle, but for them its an internal process of Brahman. But offcourse there is no internal or external for a jnani, just for our understanding!


General topics / Re: Why was Krishna weeping?
« on: April 09, 2009, 01:01:33 AM »
Dear Subramanian,

Its a beautiful story, enjoyed it. I liked the typical Krishna Attitude and his response to Arjuna. Its his own unique style of teaching.

There is a small correction to your post. Abhimanyu is the son of Arjuna and Subhadra and not Arjuna and Draupadi.


According to me, the Self does not have any moments at all. It does not also have the "Present Moment". This "Present moment" is there only for the person who has the Past and the Future!

I feel, being aware of the Self itself is Vichara. One cannot be aware of the Self for Self itself is Awareness.

Sri Krishna has quoted in Bhagawad Gita for the exact same question.

"Karmanye Vadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadachana,
Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani"

"You have a right to perform your prescribed action, but you are not entitled to the fruits of your action.

Therefore when we do mental work with the intention of Future/result then there will not be any peace. But when we do it without any interest about the future/result then we don't know how the time flew. In our young schooling days we would have studied for 2 hours and we would never know how 2 hours passed by. That is perfect example! Studying just for the sake of studying! But as we grow up, we lose that adolocence or the pristine sincerity.

We basically feel burden about our work because we try and evaluate the future, even I cant help about this! :(

Talking about Vichara. I would like to quote the word - 'Tapas' to indicate the real meaning of Vichara. Atleast I understand Vichara as 'Tapas'

Ganapathy Muni had met the yet-to-be-called Sri Ramana on the southern slopes of Arunachala. One day he was assailed by pains, troubles, doubts. He remembered that the young Swami was on the hill, and at midday, a little after noon, he climbed and found him sitting outside Virupaksha cave, alone. He prostrated and said, "All the scriptures that have to be read, I have read. All the mantras and japa that have to be done, I have done. Still I have no peace. Please save me." The young Swami took a little time. For at least fifteen minutes he silently gazed at him. Then in Tamil, he spoke. The English translation is simple:

"If one watches whence the notion 'I' arises, the mind is absorbed in That; that is tapas. When you recite a mantra, watch where the sound is coming from, within you; when you sing a song or prayer, watch where it is emanating from: your Heart. Put your attention on That. That is tyaga, that is TAPASYA, that is all."

One should focus ones Vichara only on this notion 'I' that arises. Any other thought if it may appear is only due to dabbling with the past thoughts and future plans. By watching the whence the notion 'I' appears the past and future doors are shut, and to close the doors permanently eventually!

Also, I feel we need not worry if it is a mental activity or not, let it be what ever it is as long as we are able to focus and watch whence this notion of 'I' springs constantly, that alone would suffice.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Yoga Vasishtam
« on: April 08, 2009, 07:58:54 PM »
Dear Udai,

Excellent, I pray for your success! Yoga Vasishtam is an excellent scripture to dive deep and get the pearls  of knowledge.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 08, 2009, 07:39:54 PM »
Dear Udai,

:) Yes, true even I agree with you that to see Gold one need not change the shape of the gold ring. Just one thing that we cannot see the Gold for we 'I 'outrselves are the Gold. There is nothing to see.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 08, 2009, 05:32:40 PM »
:) Yes there is no specific state to achieve or any transformation that happens to what one already is. What only happens is that in a white paper which has a lot of information written in it is erased out and what is left is the blank paper! Like, everybody says a Gold Chain, where as it is but just a Gold and chain is not something apart from it, the false attribute - Chain is just effaced. The Gold does not change because it is a Chain, the Gold only is.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Madalasa Upadesha
« on: April 08, 2009, 12:23:27 PM »
Dear Udai,

:) Exactly, this is no different from a sensual experience. Everything is a sensual experience. THAT state is beyond experience itself. There is no experience at all for to experience, there has to be The Experiencer. Which is why I felt the Movie should not continue, if it continues, then thats is not the end, even if 'I' am aware that I am not the character, still if the movie continues, then 'I' am just awakened to the extent that the emotions of the character don't bother me. But if the character has to continue, then there is experienced object and experiencer but no experience because I know that I am not that.

Vivekananda in that example was in his early days, just like us now, a student. What we are all doing is only trying to experience THAT state, knowing THAT state. we all want to know that state. when Vivekananda was shown THAT state, he could not handle it as Experiencer was there. Here again Vivekananda became the character of a Jnani for sometime and when he was awakened he realized How 'He' or lesser 'I' cannot remain in that state and prayed to Ramakrishna to get him back to his earlier state. For Vivekananda, at this point, the movie still continued.


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