Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Nagaraj

Pages: 1 ... 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 [323] 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 ... 342
4831
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Beginners Help
« on: June 01, 2009, 11:43:11 AM »
When you recite a Mantra/talk/sing/enquiry - watch where the the sound comes. When you enquiry, watch 'who' is enquiring? watch these questions -

1. I am enquiring
2. am I the body enquiring?
3. am I the brain enquiring?
4. am I the mind enquiring?
5. am I the thoughts enquiring?

Who am I?

1. I am not the body
2. I am also not the brain, because, it is only an organ used by me for enquiry
3. then it must be the mind that is enquiring, then am I the Mind?
4. what is mind? Mind has thoughts. does that mean mind is a container having thoughts? No Mind itself should be a thought only
5. So there are only thoughts.

What are thoughts then?

1. Thoughts? what are thoughts?

Who am I and what/who are thoughts?

What is the connection between Thoughts and me?

Who am I?

"Who am I" is also a thought

so 'I' must be a thought only

So there must be some thing behind thoughts-thinking.

I am That. which is nothing but consciousness. Awareness. - But this is not a thought, for That will not again think about itself.

First the Self sees itself as objects
then the Self sees itself as Void
Then the Self sees itself as Self, here there is no seeing(thinking/thoughts) for seeing is Being.

- Ramana Maharshi

The Thinker/Enquirer himself is the Consciousness. The object of the Enquiry. So the Enquirer is searching himself actually thinking He is Somebody else.

The knowledge that The Enquirer is not Somebody else and Enquirer himself is the Enquired is True Knowledge.

Nagaraj





4832
General topics / Re: A Spider and a Bee
« on: June 01, 2009, 11:29:41 AM »
This is a classic case of "Dharma Sankatam" - "what to do" "This" or "That". If you are impelled to save, then so be it, if you are impelled to leave it, then also so be it. Whatever you decide is Ok and acceptable. and one has to remember that, one does not decide whether one has to save or not, it is already destined. we should never forget that we are only an instrument.

By saving, do we actually Give Life to the Bumble bee? or what makes us think that we are giving food to the Spider?

Even in this post, it is destined that the Bumble bee be as it is, it is also destined that Sky Person be just as he is, without saving it. Nobody did anything, or nobody does anything at any time.

Dot not take the Doership.

Whatever you do - you don't do
Whatever you don't do - you actually don't do it

All the rumble noise about all these is only the Ego's which is non existent and has got nothing to do with any thing that happens around us.

You are not the Doer at any cost at all times!

Nagaraj

4833
General Discussion / Re: Holi home
« on: May 30, 2009, 10:26:07 PM »
:)

I stay in Mico Layout, BTM II Stage....

4834
General Discussion / Re: Holi home
« on: May 30, 2009, 05:57:02 PM »
:)

Even, I am from Bangalore, maybe, we could begin a Ramana-Satsang in Bangalore, God willing!

4835
General topics / Re: Living in exile with only three books
« on: May 30, 2009, 05:52:43 PM »
Dear Subramanian,

:)

I would prefer to go without any books. In my case I found, knowledge is also an addiction? maybe, for some time, I may turn into a monkey.... but then eventually, I would like be settle down as I am.... no talking, reading, no nothing...

Nagaraj

4836
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Bhaja Govindam
« on: May 26, 2009, 07:23:12 PM »
Dear Udai,

I don't know how the topic deviated. But somewhere I just began questioning the opinion that the Ball and Fire are not one and the same. This was my response -

:) Yes what you say is True, I got what you are conveying. I was thinking beyond even this principle. Its an excellent example you have quoted about the Ball and the fire. The point I was trying to convey can be explained lucidly through the same example. Fire and Ball are inter-related to each other, i.e. one cannot exist without the other. Ball is there because of the existence of the Fire. and because Fire exists in the first place, there is a Ball. the Fire is nothing but thoughts and because of thoughts, Body (Ball) exists. First the Fire Springs and then it gets hold of the ball (Body). What happens in Dreams is this. Where is a Body? its the fire alone thoughts that dreams itself. But in the end I feel, you and I are trying to convey the same thing differently. Fire itself is Ball and Ball itself is Fire - the same "I" since they are inter-related. Body is not different from the "I" hence, I of of the opinion that ultimately, its the "I" alone that possesses everything.

I would put the same point which you made the "I" picks the limitations of body and associates it with Consciousness which is ever Free.  this way -

The I picks up on itself, its own limitations and associates with its own Incomplete Self like the Fire and the Ball. Ball and Fire are one and the same, not different from each other.

And for which your response was -

Dear Nagaraj,
     :) You have got the import right. We are in total agreement there.
Regarding the fire and ball example...What Subramanian has explained is correct. Fire is Consciousness, Ball is the shape or Body. So how has brahman got form ? due to maya, which makes the impossible possible... by associating the Self which is formless with a form.


Anyhow the end is justified by any means.... and thats what counts!

Nagaraj


4837
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Bhaja Govindam
« on: May 26, 2009, 07:06:06 PM »
Dear Subramanian,

you had mentioned in other topic thus -

The question Who am I?  has no answer.  The answer is
just experience of I-I.  So the question need not be repeated
everytime.  Instead Bhagavan Ramana said:  You restrict
your thought-waves to one thought.  Say Rama, Rama or
Guruvurappa, or Arunachala Siva. 


I said the same thing, there is going to be no experience at all, for you mentioned the answer as just the experience of "I-I" I was never of the opinion of experiencing the Self. In the same topic, I had posted this before yours (above)

Yes, the question of Who am I has no answer because the questioner disappears because its the ego. Here its no more experience because the experiencer ceases to be. How can one experience oneself?

Nagaraj


4838
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Bhaja Govindam
« on: May 26, 2009, 06:57:01 PM »
Dear Udai,

Where was the fire before it came from? that is my point here. that which is prior to the Fire is the Consciousness. But in the example quoted in the Fire and the Ball, the Fire emerged form that Consciousness (Prior to the emergence of Fire) and with it the Ball (Body).

Going back to the source is the source of this Fire in this example as understood by me. I can least relate the Fire as our "Intellect" (Lesser Self/Incomplete Self) alone but not the Self the eternal Consciousness.

Scriptures have examples to illustrate the Truth, True, How can anyone explain something else? its not possible. Even in this case, even though your point and point varies, we both are still referring to that Eternal being only. So therefore it is not being misinterpreted.

The scriptures have quoted the Truth and left it to all us to understand it by ourselves, and this Truth is understood based on ones own experiences and learning constantly, like as quoted in the Gita, Udhdharet Atmanaatmanam.

Nagaraj

4839
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Bhaja Govindam
« on: May 26, 2009, 05:48:45 PM »
Dear Subramanian, Udai,

I still firmly believe that Fire is not consciousness as stated by you. Consciousness is neither Fire nor the Ball, It is absolutely formless. Fire itself is just a thought and not the consciousness itself. It is again just a misconception to take the Fire as the consciousness and to see the Body as  separately existing!

In the Karika as stated by you - When you take a torch of light, and revolves it, you find fire in a circular form.  Is the fire circular?  When the revolving hand stops, the Fire alone is there and not the circular form.

Here the one who is watching the fire revolve and observing the fire and the one that finds the Fire alone is the Consciousness and not the Fire.

Fire is not Consciousness! The one that is witnessing all these is the Consciousness.

Nagaraj

4840
Dear Subramanian,

Yes, the question of Who am I has no answer because the questioner disappears because its the ego. Here its no more experience because the experiencer ceases to be. How can one experience oneself? Yes, if one can say the names of Rama, Krishna, Arunachala, with the same spirit of Enquiring Who am I, then its good. But, most times, (in me) its happens without any enqury. The spirit is lost. If it is not said with the consciousness, with the spirit of Who am I, then it makes no difference.

Who am I is not something to repeat, it has to be carried along with the daily chores and work. Infact there is no concept of 'Time' at all in Who am I. But Yes, each people have their own way which has to be carried out persistently-constantly.

Dear Udai,

When I saw your post, I couldn't stop laughing at myself  :D I am aware of what you have said and usually do the same exercise with some minor differences. Most times, I sit like a log and see how long I am able to be and also aware of the fact just before I get back into the world.

The reason behind my posting this topic about practicing the Who am I enquiry constantly is to just make sure the consciousness is not lost in wind at time. We have to be consciousness all the time without any breaks. That was the only intention of doing Who am I enquiry all through the day.

As said by Annamalai Swami - that one who remains as Consciousness needs no practice... is the main intention

Nagaraj


4841
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Bhaja Govindam
« on: May 26, 2009, 01:58:52 PM »
Dear Udai,

:) Yes what you say is True, I got what you are conveying. I was thinking beyond even this principle. Its an excellent example you have quoted about the Ball and the fire. The point I was trying to convey can be explained lucidly through the same example. Fire and Ball are inter-related to each other, i.e. one cannot exist without the other. Ball is there because of the existence of the Fire. and because Fire exists in the first place, there is a Ball. the Fire is nothing but thoughts and because of thoughts, Body (Ball) exists. First the Fire Springs and then it gets hold of the ball (Body). What happens in Dreams is this. Where is a Body? its the fire alone thoughts that dreams itself. But in the end I feel, you and I are trying to convey the same thing differently. Fire itself is Ball and Ball itself is Fire - the same "I" since they are inter-related. Body is not different from the "I" hence, I of of the opinion that ultimately, its the "I" alone that possesses everything.

I would put the same point which you made the "I" picks the limitations of body and associates it with Consciousness which is ever Free.  this way -

The I picks up on itself, its own limitations and associates with its own Incomplete Self like the Fire and the Ball. Ball and Fire are one and the same, not different from each other.

Nagaraj

4842
If one wants Realisation, I have come to conclusion that one has to keep the "Who am I" enquiry constantly always. It has to go on and on and on.... every moment, in every actions, till the time when we sleep. We should not limit this only for 15 minutes everyday in the morning or 1 hour meditation everyday and all. One has to jump into the waters to get the pearl from deep inside the waters. If one jumps and searches for 15 minutes and come out and then next day if the same person jumps again and searches for an hour, what is the use? One has to jump and only come out with the pearl, till that time one should not come out of the waters.

If the desire for Realisation is really deep, if you Really want realisation, then one has to keep enquiring constantly without any break. in midst of work, daily chores ... all the time...

Nagaraj

4843
Dear all,

Yesterday night, as usual I was in a contemplative mood and suddenly it flashed to me this - Bhagawan has said that

"For every thought, the source is the "I" thought, and the mind will get merged only by Self enquiry...."

"Who am I? will destroy all other thoughts and will kill itself too..."

"Reach the heart by diving deep within yourself on the quest of the Self, you will thus get fixed in the Self"

"Where the 'I' merges another entity emerges as 'I-I' of its own accord. That is the perfect Self"

It flashed to me that the merging  is not to be taken literally. Infact there will be no merging at all, it is just used to convey the essence by Bhagawan, thats all. What is there to merge? has there been two different things to get merged? Infact nothing actually gets merged. Its by knowledge that the "I" understands or "merges" that It itself is the Perfect Self. There is no merging going to happen nor will any different entity will emerge - this should not be taken literally. nothing actually will emerge. what is there apart from I to emerge? and from where can anything emerge? again it only means that the emergence is nothig but of the knowledge that It Itself is the perfect Self.

There is no Merging or Emerging.

Nagaraj



4844
General Discussion / Re: Holi home
« on: May 26, 2009, 12:13:25 PM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

I think this is a common with most of us here too! I need to keep doing the who am I enquiry repeatedly and keep affirming myself the real essence. It has to be Established - my real nature untill that time, when "I" does not get affected by any thing at all. I have noticed this - when I sincerely do the who am I enquiry and really began seeing the real nature, the surroundings also began to change, even the so called people around you also change - you begin to generate positivity around you.

This is the eternal Fact - external world is a pure reflection of your internal Self. if the state of internal Self is mixed with emotions, so will be the external world around us. if the internal Self is pure and calm and happy, so will be the external world around us.

So to master this internal Self is all that is needed. what could be more better than the "Who am I" enquiry. Satsangh is another great thing, it maked your internal Self calm and poised. constant satsangh with like minded people, and Guru will make your internal Self calmer and so would be the external world!

Nagaraj

4845
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Bhaja Govindam
« on: May 26, 2009, 11:58:36 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,

Firstly, is there a body at all? Infact, there is no body at all, it is only a thought. Have you been infant, youth, old? not at all! you are ageless. what ages is only you thoughts. you can put a question to yourself - are you different from your body? It is a false identification or understanding that you are separate from your body! for, to be separate from something, there has to exist two separate things i.e. you - "I" and your body. The scriptural teachings that you are not your body and you are the eternal "I" is used only to make the student become aware about his real Self, it does not mean that the "I" is something separate from the body. We have to keep questioning ourself about all the teachings by Upanishads and the Vedas and what Sri Ramanar has said. Infact, you have got the right reasoning yourself when you asked -

"One thing is there when the body gets boil the body does not say that it has boil.
The mind sees the boil, feels the pain, then the false "I" says I am suffering out of pain. "


By further reasoning thus, in the same way, you - the "I", will find that the existence of the Body is also its own. Just go back to you own topic and discussion on "Death/deep sleep/coma/unconsiousness"

It is the mind that sees the boil and FEELS the pain - what is feeling? question yourself... its just a thought, thoughts are no different from feelings!

all the concepts of Death, Deep Sleep, Coma, Unconsciousness exist only with the existence of the Body. But we know that the eternal "I" does not have any of these. It is devoid of all these. It alone is. Well :), this is a very complicated concept. But, all these questions will keep springing for countless No. of times. The best course for you, or rather, for myself in your position, I would have sat down, dedicate an entire day doing the "Who am I" enquiry, and really sincerely. Its like a bullet, Ramanaduli, it will kill all the wrong notions within us. It will keep killing everything untill there is nothing more to kill at all. You will find that the one that was doing the killing is also you or the "I".

Talking about the mind, is there a mind at all? what do you really mean when you say "mind", when you say "So we need mind.", do you say that you have something with you? does it mean that you - "I" has a mind? is the mind different from you? you - the eternal "I" does not have any right and wrong at all. just contemplate - how do you certify something as right and wrong? what is accepted by the "Good" society is right and what is not is "Wrong" like this, your conscience decides what is right and wrong. But how does it matter to you - the "I" Again, here contemplate, "who is it that wants a right and wrong" "who is it that brands a 'right' and 'wrong' ", "what is it that brands right and worng" "what is being branded as right and wrong? you - "I" will discover that you - "I" has been branding itself as "right" and "wrong", you will realise that you "I" cannot brand anything as right or wrong for there exists nothing apart from you - "I" so what are you - "I" trying to brand as right or wrong? your own SELF? why? you - "I" will discover that it is due to ignorence. It was the Ego "I" that has been playing games! there is no this "I" at all. there has been existing one consciousness behind all these and you are that alone - the pure "Spatika" alone the eternal - Consciousness. What "thinks" is not you and what NOT thinks is you - the consciousness.

Nagaraj



Pages: 1 ... 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 [323] 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 ... 342