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Messages - Nagaraj

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:) I just happened to pick Ribhu Gita and flicked through one of the chapters - which goes like this -

What appears as delusion is of the nature of Brahman
What appears as the mind and such is of the nature of Brahman
What appears as the body is of the nature of Brahman
What appears as the things seen is of the nature of Brahman
What appears desirable is of the nature of Brahman
What appears as permanent is of the nature of Brahman
There is not an atom apart from the pure Supreme Brahman
All appearances that rise are of the nature of Brahman.

Chapter 11, verse 6

I had not read this earlier to my post, but I just found it tallying to my understanding here in this context with the subject being discussed.

Once this is understood all this exercise to control the mind, kill the mind, that it is our shadow and not us, ignoring the mind - thoughts, etc... are left unnecessary.

Sadasiva Brahmendra in one of his songs sings thus -

Paramahansa Rupena Vihartha. Brahma Vishnu Rudradika Kartha, Khelathi Brahmande

He plays in the form of the Paramahamsa(i.e. the Brahman always whispering "I am Brahman"  and "Everything is Brahman" through the cosmic sound "Om" ) and is the creator of Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra and other Gods (Sarvam Brahma Mayam, re re)

Everything is verily Brahman itself. It has to be simply be taken literally, no second analysis, study, understanding is required, But if still done, it also is Brahman itself, i.e. Mind, body, etc...  This is the thoughtless (state) - no analysis required, no understanding is anymore required, no study is required anymore!

Brahmendra further says - It is a state of Pure awareness of the nature of INSEPARABLE Bliss (Atmananda)

You are  That Brahman!  and be done with it! Thats it!


I have two simple questions -

1. What is the shadow that is being discussed
2. Why has the need arised to think that -
           i.  you are not the mind
           ii.  you are not the body
           iii.  that you are different from mind and body
   Why do you think thus? what made you think thus, the reason behind this?

Mind and body is not different from you. you are not separate from it, then what is a shadow, how can a shadow exist?


Dear Udai,

Please reflect and see, If it is a shadow, whose shadow is it? Do you have a shadow?
My question is - why do you think you are different from body, mind?

you said if there is no mind, where is the body? the question I am asking here is then why are you seeking to kill, ignore, destroy the mind? Is there mind? where is it? at the same time, you say we are not mind, we are not body....


:) Mind as a topic for discussion is abstract subject. The definition of Mind will be different for different people. One person's understanding of what is mind will be totally different from another. Therefore, when we read the dialogues with Sri Ramana Maharshi or even dialogues with Sri Annamalai Swami, we should remember that Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Annamalai Swami or for this matter any Guru, when they answer questions regarding subtle subjects such of mind, they actually look into the question from the questioner's point of view, i.e. from their own shoes and then they answer to their question in such a way that their question is answered.

Keeping this in mind, when we read these recordings of dialogues, we should first look within as to what is the real question within us regarding Mind. For example, it does not matter whether the Guru says Ignore the thoughts, ignore the mind, Mind is shadow, Mind has to be destroyed, thoughts have to be killed, etc... If we begin to just accept these words or take them literally then it becomes no short of a blind belief. we have to reason it out....

Please see this, we need to look into the Gist of these dialogues - the central theme in all these is just one and the same - call it kill, destroy, shadow, etc... the central theme is to disassociate oneself from Mind. Therefore, it does not matter, whether we understand it as Ignoring the mind or destroying the mind, or considering the mind as shadow. The central theme of Sri Ramana Maharshi or Annamalai Swami quoted in respective posts only shout the gist of disassociating oneself with Mind or thoughts or whatever each of us describe it personally.

Since this subject of Mind which is so very subtle, inorder to ease the understanding of larger spiritual aspirants and for purposes of Self Analysis, the Vedanta came up with the concept of Pancha Koshas or the 5 Sheaths under which lies the illuminating Self.

Pancha Koshas are nothing but the Mind which has been systematically split into 5 sheaths. The Mind is -

Annamaya     - Food Sheath
Pranamaya    - Pranic or energy sheath
Monamaya    - Mental or Psycho-emotional sheath
Vijnanamaya  - Intellectual Sheath
Anandamaya  - Brahman, Bliss, our real nature.

Mind, if you study carefully, only revolves around these 5 sheaths alone.

Just for the purposes of our understanding and positive discussion, I would like to ask you both one question, let alone these dialogues of Sri Ramana Mahashi and Annamalai Swami. Let them be set aside for this moment.

Why do you want to destroy/kill/ignore the mind? Why do you want to consider it as a shadow? What harm has the mind done to each one of us that we want to destroy the mind or thoughts? is there any valid reason behind this? Let alone the questioner be in the talks and dialogues, do you really have this question? If Yes, then what is the reason behind it?

For YOU - Individually, what is the reason for which you want to kill this mind? only after seeking answer to this query, it will be appropriate to proceed further discussion on this thread. Should we aspire to kill the mind or destroy the mind only because Bhagawan replied to the questioner? Are you the Questioner? the same questioner? Please reflect on these. :)  Please reflect! Why is it to be destroyed or killed? what is considered as shadow? Even to seek answer to why Mind has to be destroyed, what is Mind in first place? Do you know what mind exactly is?  that you are so confidently seeking to kill it, destroy it? Even to consider it as shadow, what is the Shadow of? Do you know whose Shadow are you talking about?


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Ignoring Thoughts
« on: June 17, 2009, 09:19:49 AM »
I guess, the subtle problem here is that one aspires to need a confirmation that He is Consciousness and nothing else. This does not need to do anything at all. As this, there are no thoughts, no nothing! If one is operating (There is no operating but used just for purposes of communication) as Consciousness, then thoughts itself is Consciousness, Body itself is Consciousness. So in such a case, a need to disassociate with the thoughts or body does not arise at all.  At no time, can there be two - Consciousness and thoughts, Consciousness and Body, etc... there is room for only ONE alone - THAT. If there are two, i.e. if still the distinguishing factor is on, I am not thoughts, I am not body, I am Consciousness and not those, then be sure that IT is not THAT. or even for the matter of fact, IT will not even bother to affirm itself 'I am Consciousness'

There is nothing separate from IT at all. As Consciousness, That will be as it is. It does not matter to it whether it is different from thoughts or whether it is different from body, etc... It alone is. That can be, alone be. Thus being the case, the scriptures thereon describe It as one which is

1. neither thoughts nor body or both
2. neither thoughts nor body or consciousness or all three
3. neither even consciousness or anything else as well

We should also remember that we are all using the word "Consciousness" also even for the purposes of communication alone!

In reality, to whom are we communicating? are we trying to communicate these to others? are we trying to make somebody understand something? Who else is there? is there an ANOTHER? there is no body there! But still the irony of this is that at all times we tend to communicate thinking there is somebody other than THAT.

It is.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Ignoring Thoughts
« on: June 16, 2009, 02:30:09 PM »
The enquirer himself is thought is ego. Thoughts are nothing but the ego. Bhagawan says -

That which makes the enquiry is the ego. the "I" about which the enquiry is made is also the ego. As a result of enquiry, the ego ceases to exist and only the Self is found to exist.

Therefore, all analysis made is made by the ego himself. Its about analysing how to destroy itself. Thoughts or thinking about how to stop thinking.

The object of Who am I enquiry is this only where Bhagawan says

Who am I enquiry will destroy all other thoughts and will finally kill itself also.

That which wants to destroy thoughts is itself a thought, i.e. the ego wants to destroy itself. therefore the most appropriate way is the Who am I enquiry alone which leads to Mano Nasa.

Therefore, instead of thinking about how to stop thinking, if the source of the thoughts or the Ego is found, it kills itself by this process.


General topics / Re: A Question
« on: June 15, 2009, 03:56:20 PM »
Dear Skyperson,

If I were to ask this question to myself - I'd say honestly I don't know! Anything more would only be a speculation and a spoon full for the thoughts to relish.

So the best course would be to be wait and see it for myself. Summa Iru - Stay still.

Only a Jnaani can know this. For us its mere speculation.

Well the best spelling to pronounce Jnani would be "nnyaani" a very small "g" comes into play - "ingnnani" comes hidden when you pronounce where "G" is very little - just .25% of its complete sound.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Ignoring Thoughts
« on: June 15, 2009, 03:52:53 PM »
:) nice one! Just another interpretation of the same excellent teaching by Annamalai Swami -

The destination is same as the starting point. So just stay where you are and avoid the journey (thoughts)
Realise that the destination is the same as this - here and now.


General topics / Re: All of you people here
« on: June 15, 2009, 11:03:34 AM »
Dear Tradere,

I understand your views and thoughts, its something which most of us face as a part of evolution if that is what we may want to call it.

But, if you really stuck to your views, you wouldn't have come here  to this forum to write your views - Infact you have just done that what you didn't want to do.

The choice is yours. really, a honest opinion of mine would be, find out yourself, dabble with what you want to do, explore and find it out all yourself.

To be brutally honest, there is no answer outside of yourself. Find it out all by yourself alone.

By talking, repeating sharing anything to anybody at any place, one is just communicating with himself alone and no (Other) body else. There is no Other at all.

Infact, your post is a post to yourself and all responses that come eventually are your own.

These are your own questions and your own answers, views, posts, etc...

You seem to have hit the nail, just go further and see for yourself what is there! there is no answers here or from anybody! Seek the help of the Self alone!

These are my perspective which are yourself's. This post is again your own based on your own experiences and interpretations. I am not different from you, you are not different from me. I am you, you are I -

Jump into the abyss and see and check it out for yourself, there are no answers anywhere except from your Self alone.


The question is about only how to control Lust. its not about how to control Sex itself. Sex is not a crime. its one of the most beautiful divine experiences God has granted this to every living beings. Perhaps its one experience closest to the experience of the Brahmanic Bliss but not the Bliss itself. Here the Thoughts are dead, there is only One.

Sex drive is not to be controlled, it has to be used intelligently till the reality flashes itself onto us that this sex desire is not in itself an ultimate Salvation but only a means to the Ultimate Consciousness, Its also a part of Sadhana.

Entire Mis interpreattion of Religious scriptures across all religions portray Sex as some big Crime. Its False. Its one of the most divine experiences which God has blessed each one of us to have. Most ancient temples have large and intricate and beautiful intimate sexual unions of siva and sakthi concepts sculpted in stones and Temple Gopurams. Its part of our life and Sadhana. Nothing big has to be made from this.

Yes, If sex is forced upon someone then it will have its impact on the one, he has to face the wrath  ;D some hits and smacks... That is lust. But sex drive itself should not be seen as a problem, have a nice happy married life, thats why we have Grihasthashrama. once the reality dawns, one will take up sanyasa afte Grihasthahrama


General topics / Re: On being serious
« on: June 12, 2009, 10:46:24 AM »
Dear Subramanian,

Very beautiful post, Excellent recollection of Ashtothara Namams, it is so full of meaning and ecstasy. Bhagawan Ramana is the pure Consciousness within us as our own Conscioussnes, This itself is the Witness of everything. That Pure Consciousness alone - Sri Ramana.

The lesser ego, on realising its own non existence, prays to this pure Consciousness - Sri Ramana who is the Effulgence of Arunachala like the Sun in the Heart, which is showering its grace.

Grace is his Nature and Nature is Grace itself. How beautiful. Similarly, we can say that the experienced and Experiencer and Experience is all one and the same.

Sugar cannot taste its own sweetness, as it itself is Taste as well! The Grace is seen by the ego once it realises its own false state. The Life force, the Consciousness is dancing in its own sweetness, taste, its own experience, experienced, experience even though there is no movement - no tasting, no experience, no experienced - Achalam

That which is experienced without Experience, That which is sweetening without tasting the sweetness, that which is full of Life-Force without
Life is Arunachala - The Eternal Consciousnes Awareness Witness etc. Movement without Movement.


General topics / Re: Fear is good or bad
« on: June 12, 2009, 10:21:40 AM »
Fear is illusory. Its only resistance which enhances the non existing fear, don't resist anything, accept things as they are. Its only when the ideas of the ego are threatened, fear creeps up. But by the power of your awareness, consciousness of the fear, accept the situation, fear disappears as its was not there in first place at all.

Infact Ego and Fear are not different. Ego itself is fear, Fear itself is Ego.

There is no fear, resistance, ideas, agenda for the Consciousness awareness. Be as this. Fear is not yours its only the Ego's. There is nothing to fear.

Face fear face to face. Face everything face to face. Your third Eye - Consciousness will destroy every illusion and leave only Bhasma (Truth). You are That Shiva. Your Consciousness is the third eye of Shiva. This is the Shiva Tattva about his Third Eye. You are Shiva Swaroopa.


Dear Subramanian :)

The scriptures, Vedas, and Jnaanis call it Nectar. Itseems when the Sahasra Chakra opens, nectar keeps flowing out...


:) Yes but for such a one, that weeping is not an ordinary weeping but its Bliss incarnate. For us, it may seem like weeping, but Such Jnani don't even know they are weeping. We describe it as weeping based on our own experiences. We have read that Ramana Maharshi cried on reading Kannapa's story. It appears as an emotion for us. .... Its not an ordinary weeping. It itself is Bliss. Bliss itself is That.

All our actions and state are just like Cinemas we ourselves are producer, director, hero, scriptwriter and everything. :)

General topics / Re: On being serious
« on: June 10, 2009, 11:58:25 AM »
I don't understand what is being Serious? what is a serious state? If we are discussing some state, then its just some state, if its a sate, then its nature is only experiencing. why should we want to experience some state? I have seen, read people sharing their spiritual experiences and experiences of Samadhi, Bliss, etc... they don't realize that its false, its not real, whatever we experience is not real.

That which is beyond experience alone is real. Its all Mind play, Ego playing, Mind is still active trying to achieve its agenda of achieving some state, samadhi etc...

There is no Experience at all in "That" ('state' - I don't want to use this word here, but its inevitable for purposes of communication) To experience there should be 2, experiencer and experienced. If there is experience then there is duality and mind is feeding itself.

Detach from association with experience. Get back to the source and abide as Self. constant practice will relieve one from this. Mistaken Identity.

This is Thoughtless state. Experience is possible only when the mind is operating. If mind is operating its again a mistaken identity. and then one experiences various state. Spiritual, Non Spiritual, etc...


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