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Messages - Nagaraj

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The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Waking And Dream Same ?
« on: December 20, 2009, 09:35:08 AM »
Dear I,

Bhagawan has answer to your this query as well, in Day by Day,

“Even in my dream I sometimes feel that I am dreaming, i.e.,
I am conscious that it is a dream and that a fall for instance
there cannot hurt me and so on. How is that?”

Bhagavan: How can that be? Even in a dream there must
be hurt consequent on a fall. On the other hand, if you are aware
it is a dream, you are no longer dreaming. At the best, it may be
the transition stage when you are awaking from the dream state.

This is what perhaps happens in your query.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Waking And Dream Same ?
« on: December 19, 2009, 10:35:51 AM »
Dear I,

There is one more very relevant point for introspection:

Bhagavan remarked, “All that we
see is a dream, whether we see it in the dream state or in the
waking state. On account of some arbitrary standards about the
duration of experience and so on, we call one experience dream
experience and another waking experience. With reference to
Reality, both the experiences are unreal. A man might have
such an experience as getting anugraha (grace) in his dream
and the effect and influence of it on his entire subsequent life
may be so profound and so abiding that one cannot call it unreal,
while calling real some trifling incident in the waking life, that
just flits by, is casual, of no moment whatever and is soon

Salutations to Sri Ramana

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Waking And Dream Same ?
« on: December 19, 2009, 10:31:23 AM »
Dear I,

The same question appears in Day by Day, I came across some relevant points from Bhagawan:

“There is no difference between dream and
the waking state except that the dream is short and the waking
long. Both are the result of the mind. Because the waking state
is long, we imagine that it is our real state. But, as a matter of
fact, our real state is what is sometimes called turiya or the
fourth state which is always as it is and knows nothing of the
three avasthas, viz., waking, dream or sleep. Because we call
these three avasthas we call the fourth state also turiya
avastha. But it is not an avastha, but the real and natural state
of the Self. When this is realised, we know it is not a turiya or
fourth state, for a fourth state is only relative, but turiyatita,
the transcendent state called the fourth state.”

V.: It is said the world is like a dream. But there is this
difference between dream and the waking state. In dream I
see my friends or relations and go through some experiences
with them. When I wake up and ask those friends or relations
whom I met in the dream about the dream, they know nothing
about it. But in the waking state what I see and hear is
corroborated by so many others.

B.: You should not mix up the dream and the waking
states. Just as you seek corroboration about the waking state
experiences from those whom you see in the waking state,
you must ask for corroboration about the dream experiences
from those whom you saw in the dream state, i.e., when you
were in the dream. Then in the dream, those friends or relations
whom you saw in the dream would corroborate you.
The main point is, are you prepared when awake to affirm
the reality of any of your dream experiences? Similarly, one who
has awakened into jnana cannot affirm the reality of the waking
experience. From his viewpoint, the waking state is dream.

B: Your thinking that you have to make an effort to get rid
of this dream of the waking state and your making efforts to
attain jnana or real awakening are all parts of the dream.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Dear I,

In Day by Day - 18-11-1945

This morning about 6 a.m. Vaikunta Vasar, an attendant,
was massaging Bhagavan’s legs. After he had been massaging
for about half an hour, Bhagavan expressed 'ennathayo pidikkira
pol irukiradu (I vaguely feel that something is being massaged).
This is perhaps a glimpse into the inner life of Bhagavan.
He was not in any trance or special samadhi
then, but in his usual state.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Dear I,

Absolutely! "I" which is ego personified can never interpret all these. In the life of Sada Shiva Brahmendra, when his arms were cut off by some Nawab, he was even not aware that one of his arms was cut off. another instance, when he was in deep meditation near some river, huge logs of wood rolled over him during some flood or something like that and after about 22 days or so, when people were clearing the debris, he got up and moved forward carelessly as if nothing had happened with blood all over his body and flowing down.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Dear I,

Thats one of my favorite picture :)

Maya is that which is Not-Real, Asat. Therefore that which is not real cannot really exist and since it is believed to exist, it is called Mithya or illlusion. Therefore whatever we call as Maya does not exist but we keep giving it existence by thinking, feeling that everything is Maya... How can everything be Maya when everything is but only the Aatma.

Is there anything to leave in reality? Pains, sufferings are all only Mithya, it is just believed that there is pain and suffering. Mirage does not really exist. At no point one is never Not-Realized. Therefore the question of Realization is also a Mithya of a kind. I felt being realized does not imply leading a realized life since it akala, Timeless. The question to improvements etc... is by itself Mithya. It is here and at the same time not here. It was never and at the same time always.

The feelings, discomforts and thoughts are all mithya - made believed. They are not there at all. As along as we believe all these are there so long there is Mithya - we believe It is there but it cant touch me. But this difference itself signifies the separateness - "It is there, but it cant touch me" is also Mithya. The pains, sensations are not there in the first place so that they are stop, because its just illusion Mithya. the existence Pains, sensations is asat not true. The thoughts, body are all the Seer himself. There is nothing there! All that there is - is only the 'Seer' alone. 'Seer' himself is Mithya. For 'Seer' to exist, there has to be a 'Seen'. Therefore all these exist so long there is the 'Seer'

Like the classical example from Nirvaana Shatkam:

Aham Bhojanam naiva Bhijyam na Bhokthaha
I am neither the Observed nor the Observed or the Observation or the Observer as well

Sadame Samatvam Na muktir na Bandhaha, Chidananda rupam, Shivoham Shivoham
I am always in the state of equality, neither liberated nor captivated

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Dear I,

I remain totally non-conclusive at this point, neither 'yes' nor 'no', I am able to comfortably say 'I don't know'. I feel, here in these points, we are only dabbling in the realms of Sri Ramana Maharshi's life, or more appropriately a self defined Self Realised person's State and not really ours. I just felt its best to leave these questions open for ourselves to 'face'

I am  not able to really take it 100% that Sri Ramana had to 'bear' any pain, the pain in Ramana's knee only existed in the seer's mind, the devotees, writers, you and I and not really Ramana's and when I read about the incenses, probably 'Day by Day' or 'Talks', infact I interpreted it otherwise, some one lit a lot of incense sticks that emanated a lot of smoke and since He- 'Sri Ramana' was always surrounded by devotees, he would have expressed the discomfiture of the devotees; actually not His. He was absolutely non committal neither used authority nor rejected what was happening around him, to make the devotees realise themselves. Actually to whom are we lighting incense sticks, is it for God or for our own selves?

Salutations to Sri Ramana

yes, the discomfort will be there so long there is duality present. Once the duality is removed (not really removed, as its only illusion) there is no need to even bear the discomfiture.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Bring out the Vasanas
« on: December 17, 2009, 01:23:52 PM »
Asceticism is our real nature. all other stages are only illusions. Asceticism is the most natural self. Asceticism is verily the Self itself. One who takes to Asceticism can be divided into two. One is involuntary, as in the case of Ramana Maharshi, avadhootas, another based on the schools of thoughts laid down by Adi Shankaracharya, Ramanujacharya, and others. The latter ones take to Asceticism to propound the Vedic Dharma as a service rendered to the God almighty to the people.

We cannot decide on what is desire, whether Asceticism also could be a sort of desire, destiny's etc... because, the so called "Acts" of Ascetics are their most natural actions, spontaneity, These actions defy logics and societal norms and rights or wrongs.

When we watch these, it raises confusions within ourselves. Therefore what is more important is to watch our own selves alone.

true Ascetics may not necessarily be only in orange garb or with long beards or very lean, bony or without any clothes. persons very close to us, in  our own family, our own loved ones may also be an Ascetic without even being aware about Asceticism, who is just doing their daily chores without any disturbances or sort.

A true Ascetic is the most ordinary and most natural man/woman/etc.. with no complications!

Salutations to Ramana

Dear I,

I found this interesting story in some website and found it worth sharing it here.

When Annamalai Swami was staying at the Ashram of Sri Ramana Maharshi, he was given charge of constructing more buildings for the Ashram.
Annamalai Swami was some times troubled by sexual thoughts but some how he used to avoid the thoughts. Amongst the construction workers there were some very attractive females and occasionally, Annamalai Swami were attracted to them. Once he expelled all the female workers so that he can avoid them. But Ramana Maharshi stressed him to employ them.

Once he told Ramana Maharshi that he doesn't want Moksha but he wants to get rid of the desire for women. Ramana Maharshi laughingly said “all saints are striving only for this”. From Ramana Maharshi  answer, Annamalai Swami was assured that he was not alone in this suffering. But one afternoon Annamalai Swami was sitting in his room, when he saw a beautiful woman going to meet Ramana Maharshi. After some time when that woman came out of room, Annamalai Swami was totally captivated by her beauty and lust. Suddenly Ramana Maharshi came out and asked Annamalai Swami to stand on a particular rock and Maharshi started conversing with him. The sun was at its peak and Annamalai Swami was not wearing any sandals. So soon his feet starts burning from heat but he could not change his feet as it was an order from Maharshi.

The pain in his feet started increasing and suddenly a thought arises in him that the pain he is experiencing has replaced the sexual desire. As the thought entered his mind, Ramana Maharshi abruptly ended conversation and left him. After some days Annamalai Swami was again disturbed by sexual thoughts to the extent that he could not eat or sleep properly for three days. At last he thought of taking Maharshi's help.

Maharshi advised him “Why you pay attention to evil thought? Why don’t you meditate? To whom does this thought came. The thought will leave you on its own accord. You are not the body nor the mind, you are the Self, Meditate on your Self and all desires will leave you."

Salutations to Ramana

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: The beauty of Arathi
« on: December 17, 2009, 11:32:14 AM »
Dear Srkudai,

Hi to you! :)

Another interpretation that flashed to me:

The Camphor is the body or the Ego - I and the fire is the knowledge. When the body (camphor) is totally burnt, there is neither body, ego - I nor knowledge. What remains and still does not really remain is the eternal consciousness and rotating around the idol or any God is concentration without allowing the Vasanas take over you. Suppose Vasanas takes us over like a strong wind, the fire stops and camphor would still remain.

It signifies the burning of ego to consciousness. fusion of ego, intellect and knowledge to consciousness.

Salutations to Ramana

Dear Subramanian,

Happy to say Hi to you once again!  :)

You are right in a way that all structures whether religious or not do get dilapidated some time or the other. Renovations or new buildings coming up in its place is also normal. But is this not what is called rebirth in a way? We always look for continuity, birth after birth, hope after hope. In this way we get used to the fact of such continuity and just don't give up. We will have to give up some time or the other. There has to arise a point where there is no hope, no continuity, no rebirth for this - "I" which is ego personified. Absolutely nothing to cling upon. Truly absolutely hopeless situation is when we are nearer to what is called "Sharanagati" absolute desolate position. We just postpone this!

A true Guru is one who frees himself to you and leave you absolutely alone as "Divya Chaitanya, or Sat Chit Ananda" and our beloved Sri Ramana Maharshi has illustrated this to so many devotees in various different ways. Things that we cling upon dies one day or the other. What is born dies and we forget what is not born at all.

Salutations to Ramana

Dear S Lakshmi,

I felt deeply sad after reading your post that Sri Ramana Maharshi's birth house is under renovation. I wanted to visit Sri Ramana Maharshi's birth place at least once in lifetime to feel and see the place touched by Sri Ramana Maharshi and feel the air and mud sand trees that existed at that time. feel the cement flooring, walls and the spirit of Sri Sundaram Iyer - his initiative to let out one half of his house for pilgrims and hungry people and place where they fed them. It is said even robbers would avoid only Sri Sundaram Iyers house out of gratitude towards his service. I wanted to see and feel the place where Sri Azhagammaal would have cajoled and fed and played with Venkataraman.

Sad I cant see the place again in its pristine-ity but I realise that everything is momentary. Happy that you gave me an opportunity to soak myself in tears in front of Sri Ramana after much time.


Cautionary advice / Gratitude
« on: December 15, 2009, 09:37:16 PM »
Dear Graham

I don't know if you remember me, but I was a member in this Forum for some time and then due to some reasons, I did not strike in chord here in this place and I had the urge to move out of this forum as I felt this is not a right place for discussions etc... but then still I used to check this forum each day several times and read all the articles posted by fellow devotees and I took my share of cake where ever I found it in various posts.

But today, now, as usual I visited the forum to see updates in posts and I saw 2 posts from you and I don't know why or for what reason, I again felt a strong urge within me to become part of this forum. I felt so strongly withing me the genuine-ity in your todays posts! some kind of chord struck within me and here I am!

I went through all your struggle by reading couple minutes your posts. Sometimes what we believe as pains actually end up being our extreme contentment, but we just mistake the process as suffering. I cry in front of Sri Ramana Maharshi out of pain of not being able to have been during his physical presence. there will be a lot of pain in my heart, unbearable yet it is so pleasing, blissful. I want that pain again and again.

I had decided I am never going to be part of any forums or discussions, but here I am without any agenda or with any views and with any intentions to posts various threads or to discuss or clarify doubts but simply present!

I would like to show deep gratitude for your services. I have revolved around your room doors (websites) for long hours. you and your team gave me a doorway to everything of Sri Ramana Maharshi who is everything to me. Thank you.


General Discussion / bidding adieu
« on: June 19, 2009, 12:19:05 PM »
Dear all,

I feel this is the time for me to bid adieu to one and all here in this Forum. I personally have come to understand that discussions are endless loop and there is no ending point in this. Also, in my deepest heart, I feel a Disciple-Disciple discussions are no good at all for it leads either one to Nowhere. Only Disciple-Guru discussion would lead one from Darkness to Light.

I don't intend to be against this Forum Discussions but only that I have come to understand that personally, the need for such discussions, in a general Forum; here in me is only halting me in an endless loop.

It has been nice knowing each one of you all. I thank each one from my deepest heart. I pray and wish, each one of you reach to where you aspire to go or realise your goals.

You are welcome to keep in touch with me vie e-mail -

With Prayers,
Best Wishes, Regards & Love,


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