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Messages - Nagaraj

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4696
Dear I,

If self is "writing books" , "giving talks", why not thinking ?
Can not Self do that?

And who does not have thoughts? The Self in Ramana is the same as the Self here .So that Body Ramana had no thoughts , but this body of Ramana has thoughts!
While Ramana himself --- Consciousness is Ever Thoughtless ! Here as well as there!

It is not the Self that does all these, but the I - mind, thought, ego.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4697
Dear I,

How can we know if Ramana Maharshi had thoughts? is it not us who are assuming? and similarly with Janaka as well. It is the reader, who is imagining about the state of Ramana or Janaka.

Pls see, who is it that is questioning - "how is it without thoughts" is nothing but a thought. You are just a thought!

The idea that they had thoughts and functioned is our own thought again.

To your last question, you ask "whose thoughts? see if you sit and stop thoughts in your mind ... but my mind has thoughts ... can you say you do not have thoughts? if so, you are identifying with that mind, isnt it ?"

You yourself are just a thought. How can thought kill thought?

You - I are nothing but just a thought!

Manonasham is destruction of You - I.

Salutation to Sri Ramana

4698
Dear I,

The very word "manonasham" itself means destruction of mind. When there is destruction of mind how can there possibly be any thoughts. If there are thoughts, then there is perception, at least the perception that these thoughts do not affect me. Mind or Manam itself is thought.

How can there possibly be thoughts after Manonasham?

Manonasham is absolutely no thoughts at all.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4699
Dear I,

Actually, I was scrolling through so many posts here in this forum, which are really of high quality and are really excellent explanations and great Satsang. I was contemplating and then, (without any offence to anybody) I realised, even these discussions, themselves are in a way deviating one from the direct path of Self Enquiry as guided by Sri Ramana Maharshi.

Whatever knowledge we may gain here, whatever we may try to understand, whatever new stories or even for that matter, the life and day by day with Ramana, how he was, what he did, His Talks, his answers to questions posted by devotees, anything for that matter, what it does is, makes us stay put on that. What we fail to do immediately are the following words of Bhagawan, the only thing Bhagawan wanted everyone to do:

"To whom do these thoughts arise?"
"Whence does the 'I' to which these thoughts come, arise?"
"Who am I"

As a matter of fact, any discussion, is only a hinderance be it even discussing any spiritual topic of great importance, or even the life of Sri Ramana Maharshi as well.

This is purely without any offense meant to anybody here. Its just so very very important to see the truth ourselves, how much we are giving room to Vasanas. Vasanas are not just necessarily only on Bad habbits, or etc... Scriptures even say, that Spirituality itself is a very strong Vasana.

It is so important to raise this question to ourselves, whenever we get any thought - "To whom do these thoughts arise?". more specifically, whenever we are so concentrated in spiritual quest.

Each time, a though comes, we need to question the very thought. We should not get carried away by anything, even not allowing oneself to get carried away on very important topics on Self, or Ramana Maharshi itself. Suppose we get carried away, it becomes a fuel for the thought to carry on. It is so important to not let thought get carried away.

Question the every thought - "To who do these thought arise?" by enquiring like this, one will realise that one need not know any answers at all! Why is there any need to clear any doubt or question in our mind? it is of no relevance at all. It is of absolute inconsequence.

Infact, don't you think, that the success of this forum is solely dependent on our thoughts-force? This forums successful performance gives us such clear statistics about our own thoughts-force. our mind is so powerful. The various tens of thousands of posts in this forum reflect the thoughts within ourselves. Have you all ever questioned "to whom do all these thoughts arise?" (Deeply, meaning no offense to anybody)

There is so much noise here, in the forum, so many thoughts, so quickly, such beautiful posts, the thoughts is conquering so many kingdom and is the emperor here. Don't you all think we need to dethrone this emperor (thoughts) and the only way to do that is to only enquire "to whom to these thoughts arise?"

Question the very need to post, the very need to enquire!

The number of posts here in this forum directly reflects the number of thoughts going on at present in our mind.

This is an honest reflection to I. No offenses meant to anybody.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4700
Dear I,

Being a witness helps quieten the mind, its just like a praanayaama. It stops you from jumping about like a monkey. But also, we should be aware
that the Self is Non Witness. The Self is not a witness. Enquire if there is a witness and a witnessed!

Bhagawan says:

"All that you have to do is to give up being aware of other things, that is of the non-self - 'ego'. If one gives upbeing aware of them then pure awareness alone remains, and that is the Self"

Once a devotee asked Ramana Maharshi - "I do not know how to worship, please tell me, how do I worship?" Bhagawan replied replied - "enquire if there is Worshiped and a worshiper"

So never give any scope of duality.

Actually many Sadhanas or methods are only a quick solution to quietining the mind but not themselves an end to itself to the Self. It sometimes may make one stay put.

Salutations to Sri Ramana


4701
Dear I,

I'd like to make a small change here.

Everything is illusion, everything is unreal, etc... is also an illusion. The one that is discriminating this is illusion himself. because everything cannot be illusion, everything cannot be unreal. We cannot define the "everything", it is illusion to even continue something after "everything......"

There is only Atma, Brahman, or there is nothing and everything alone and the one that is telling this is again Illusion itself. The very effort to affirm that everything is illusion is illusion. I just re-iterate this statement that "Thinking Maya as Maya is the greatest Maya"

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4702
General topics / Re: Proper place of "I"
« on: January 06, 2010, 06:27:36 PM »
Dear I,

What you have said is exactly what Sri Vaishnavites call "Prapatti". Complete surrender, Sharanagati, being aware of the I's limitedness. Humbleness is effortless. a Sense of giving up.

Krishna Says in Gita - 18 Chapter, 66 verse:

Sarva Dharman Parityajya Maaekam Sharanam Vraja
Sham Tvaaam Sarva Paapebhyo Mokshayisyaami Ma Sukah

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4703
General topics / Re: Liberation not possible for everyone?
« on: January 06, 2010, 08:14:35 AM »
Dear I,

The one that is enquiring cannot get liberated, this is assured. So long you are searching it, you will keep searching it. and then, when you stop searching it, and feel you have got it, you will still remain away from it. No Chance!

Who wants to be liberated? is it the Self or you? can you ever be liberated? that which does not exist!, can it be liberated? This is only the Chemical! and that which exists and does not exist at the same time is awareness. You can not know awareness, its sheer waste of time. We can pack our bags and go home, rather find the awareness!  

the YOU can never be liberated!

Liberation is not an act, becoming, or even knowledge!

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4704
Dear I,

You take us all to Ramanashramam by your narration here about your experiences each time! I am just there beside you invisibly, watching every incident of yours through your narration.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4705
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Late night musings
« on: January 02, 2010, 08:16:28 AM »
Dear I,

yes, what more to write here? I have to end 'this' with just a full-stop  .

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4706
Humour / Re: Bhagavan's humour
« on: January 02, 2010, 08:14:56 AM »
Dear I,

Its a sad news at at the same time a good news, that you shared with us. I keep reading Smt. Kanakammal's Cherished Memories always, its an outpour of her love to he beloved Guru, Sri Ramana Maharshi. And what a perfect ending to her body? Its really a great miracle, that she should step  inside the Samadhi Hall and merge with Sri Ramana Maharshi Himself. I was getting goosebumps as I read the news from your post. I was feeling really sad, for a great devotee has left this world, more appropriately left the physical memory of her in me. But She is ever here, along with Sri Ramana Maharshi.

She was graced by Nayana Dheeksha from Sri Bhagawan. Its such an extraordinary experience to read her experience, right from her young days, when she had an intense desire to move to Sri Ramanashramam, how she stayed there, and how she had to struggle to convince her father who wanted her to lead a normal life.

She was so close to Sri Bhagawan and ever is here!

Salutations to Sri Ramana


4707
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: What is Self Inquiry?
« on: December 31, 2009, 11:12:18 PM »
Dear I,

Yes, a good discussion leads to the light.

An actual event can take place, involuntarily, which seems - without thinking, are only that the thinking process is too fast to be noticed, like those that are a threat to the survival of the body, like when somebody keeps a fire on your hand, there is an automatic reflexes, the thinking process is too fast here, but there is a remembrance of the very first experience of having kept the finger on the fire - this happens so fast, this is called involuntary.

Thinking literally need not necessarily be carefully planned course of action after a detailed analysis. The thinking which you shared about is just that the thinking has already been done for that situation. When you see the clock to see the time, you know already what is hour needle, minute needle and second needle. When you see the time, you involuntarily are able to tell what the time is without any delay.

What you say as "actual events can happen without thinking before/after atual event" is nothing but the thinking process is just too fast for the mind to notice it thats it.

What I understand is that there cannot be any actions performed, or any events happen without any Self Motive. This motive that exists is nothing but the thinking.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

 

4708
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Late night musings
« on: December 31, 2009, 10:18:50 PM »
Dear I,

Whether one thinks, he is on the path of Jnana or Bhakti, evenually, He will see the culmination of Jnana and Bhakti at one point, where He can be both - a Jnani and a Bhaktha.

Sometimes, it is so important to free oneself from all the intellectual struggle and just simply surrender oneself unconditionally to the One that runs the show. The mind or the ego is always on look out for something interesting, something more, something exciting that will give it a sense of contentment, a sense of achievement, a sense of being a Jnani. It cant just be with fact as it is. There is nothing there really, but the ego does not want to  stop, it just cant be, it simply just does not want to retire! Basically, it does not want to die!

Amidst all these searches, the path can deviate the Sadhana/Student to various different routes that do not have any destiny at all. But the reality is that there is no destiny to reach at all. The very journey is illusion! The idea that there is realisation on attainment of something itself is a delusion. This very delusion itself is the reason for Self Enquiry even! Intellectually, one cannot 'find' the Self as such because the very 'One' in Search Himself is the Search or the Self! Such is the Irony!

But the pull of Vasanas are so strong that, even though, I am able to clearly write these without any second thought now, as there is so much clarity as write it now, will soon fade away when the day ends! That is because, Even the clarity that we perceive is only for quietening just the ego/mind. Would the Self ever want any clarity? Would the Self want any attainment at all? It just simply is, it is not really bothered about what the ego/mind does!

Therefore, the 'One' that really is seeking clarity or the Self is just the ego/mind.

But the greatest irony is that the ego/mind, due to delusion, believes that it is 'Jiva', 'I' is mind, ego and goes about searching for the Self endlessly. 

When the culmination of Bhakti and Jnana occurs, the ego/mind (not reall ceasing to be) ceases to be. It casts of its agenda of searching the Self and remains as the Self, not even requiring to acknowlege to itself on attainment. There is no more any necessity for such activities. There are no activities at all here. The Self is absolutely free of anything. It does not have any agenda because there is no perception here. Perception exists only when there is ego/mind. But as its agenda ends, there is no more activity at all. N more activity meaning, "Just Be", "Being Still".

Bhagawans teaching on simply being "Just Be","Be Still" and the state of Jnani are of no use to the ego/mind. Whatever, it reads, analyses about the Self is a futile exercise because, It is not the Self. Just like how the Actor who plays the role cannot become the role itself in real life, similarly, the ego/mind cannot be the Self on defining, understanding, analysing the Self. Because Being Self, one is not interested in even knowing that it is Self. The Self just is.

The maximum the ego/mind can do is only understand its own limitedness and be humble.

Its really a futile exercise on part of Jiva to analyse how the transformation from Ego/Mind/Jiva to Self takes place. This itself is the delusion. When the Jiva stops this very exercise and just remains humbly, knowing its own limitedness, without having any agenda on analysing, Jnana, Bhakti, to becoming, to try to become, to try and understand or tries to be as the Self. That itself should be sufficient. The Jiva/ego/mind will not know that He has become the Self or the Jiva/ego/mind cannot know that it is Self.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4709
Dear I,

Celibacy is not what you think is.

A true celibate is a realised person!

Salutations to Sri Ramana.

4710
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: What is Self Inquiry?
« on: December 31, 2009, 07:20:38 PM »
Dear I,

Create a Filter Role ... That appropriates the problems of the roles accordingly.

:) I understand why you want to analyze kartutvam ... The understanding that i am not the doer ... is beautiful ... but if i am not the doer ... its difficult to put in intensity into work at times. Please try to understand this carefully. imagine you are playing cricket. Some anxiety is required for you to perform well. We often find emotions are required to do a proper fight. Emotional intelligence --- there is a book --- which talks about the importance of emotions for performing better.

So "I am not the doer" notion cools down all emotions. its very good ... coz it brings all emotions under control ... but it is also dangerous ... coz one will not be able to Express the Emotions where it is needed as well.So as a householder if you are practically trying to do something ... some emotions are required ... but at the same time all emotions must be under control.

So one Knows oneself As Consciousness is not the Doer ... and yet plays the role of a energetic person ... this is the way to do it! Both have to coexist for acting. For renouncing the first is self sufficient.

Love!
Silence

What I am trying to point is the need for anxiety for the role to perform well. Who is it that needs the anxiety and for what? because there is a Self interest here

Emotional Intelligence - Who is it that wants to perform better?

When you are talking about Emotions and its expressions, actually to whom are we showing those emotions? Are we shoowing it to the other persons? It is not really so, we kiss a baby because there is a desire to kiss the baby and enjoy the pleasure of kissing the baby. We actually dont kiss a baby because the baby likes it? The Baby does not laugh at our kissing it, but only out of its own joy, it laughs!

There is no expression at all, if at all there is any expression, it is only for the self interest only. one does not have sex because it is pleasurable for the opposite sex, that the opposite sex enjoys sex. one has sex because one finds pleasure in it. it is a Self interest!

Who is it that is saying "Emotions are required" and who is it that is saying "at the same time all emotions must be uneder control"?

So is there not a motive behind all these reasons? the motive being the continuity of the "I"?

What Self sufficient does the Self need? if at all there is a need for Self Sufficient, it is only for the "I" Jiva alone.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

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