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Messages - Nagaraj

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Dear I,

that "its ego, thought, mind!" ... is a thought too ;)

Yes, so long thoughts are there it continues. Your second thought

BTW ... :) and "you" need not know who you are ;) cant ask me abt it! ;)
just kidding!

is no kidding, please see, introspect further, the "you" to whom you are addressing is yourself! Mind addressing to mind, thought addressing to thoughts.

You are really talking and answering your own questions, your arguments are for yourself only.

It is so very important to know who the "Who" is. Who is this?

Who am I? is no different from Who are you? Both are one and the same for 'I' and 'You' are just Ego, thoughts, Mind, I

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Dear I,

The question is that why a need arised to see the dog. In particular only the dog, please introspect and tell me.

Do you have a choice? There is no choice. The Dog is seen.
you cannot choce "I'll not see Dog" or "i'll See a Dog now" ... its not possible!

Please question again, Please introspect why the dog is seen? it is seen because of some desire which you - thought - Mind! Please enquire further to whom this thought or desire has come !

Vasanas are nothing but thoughts themselves!

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Dear I,

        :) Between two thoughts, there are no thoughts ... you are still there!
suppose you are not there, how did the next thought come ???

in deep sleep, no thoughts ... you are still there.

you are totally independent of the thoughts. thoughts do not make you.
There presence or absence cannot touch you... just as a shadow cannot touch the real person ... or a mirage's presence or absence does not make any difference.  

Who is it that is saying this ? Whos is the 'I' that is saying thus? Thinking thus? How do you - 'I' Mind know that you are there in deep sleep? why are you not able to say this in deep sleep? why don't the 'I' say that between thoughts as you put? Who is the one that is saying all there?

It is the Ego, Thought, Mind, I

Who is the one that is saying "you are totally independent of the thoughts. thoughts do not make you." ???

Who am 'I' ?

Salutations to Sri Ramana

General topics / Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« on: January 13, 2010, 10:15:11 AM »
Dear I,

  ... it did not ask me permission to arise.
it arose and only then u can ask this question.
when you asked this question its already there ...

also Nagaraj, its useless to keep telling this is thought, this is also thought and so on ... coz we know that anything written, and read has to be thought. why are you constantly telling its thought? it is ... everyone knows that!
and then you ask "find out who says this"...  thats one more thought added to the list of thoughts ! 

It did not arise automatically, it arose, because you were interested to see what the response for your question. You login here here because of some motive to feed your thought. More over don't all members who login here, will first check their own posts and then the other posts? You - 'I' - Thoughts are here to feed the thoughts - Ego - Mind - I

This is the need!

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Dear I,

Excellent post. Felt very nice reading your article posted.

These are all experiences, experiences are thoughts. Still there is one that is experiencing all these experiences. We have to enquire, Who is the 'I' to whom these thoughts/experiences are arising.

Bhagawan always stressed not to stop with these experiences/feelings/thoughts. He always finally asked the devotees to enquire upon the 'I' to whom these experiences are arising!

Who am 'I'?

Salutations to Sri Ramana

General topics / Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« on: January 13, 2010, 09:33:05 AM »
Dear I,

Bhagavan Ramana has said the following on the various points
1.  Desiring the Self is the only desire that one can have.  If
desire is meant as vasana, this is the only vasana that one can
2.  Bhagavan Ramana did write books, did have some thoughts,
why only thoughts, He did have dreams too.  He did drinking
and sleeping.  He has said that this is done by the Pure Mind
or Suddha Manas,  or Sattva Manas, which does not produce
any prarabdha effect.  It is from the Pure Mind, which is like 
the burnt rope.  The burnt rope has only a form but of little
use for any activity i.e. activity that we normally mean. 
He has also said that the Self does everything that a self realized
jnani does.  It is an advaitic paradox.  Sri Sankara did all the work,
including pilgrimages (which Bhagavan Ramana did not do) with
this Pure Mind or the Self.  It is said in Tamil -  Ninaiyamal ninainthu... thinking without thinking, sollaamal solli ... telling
without telling.... kaanaamal kandu....seeing without seeing.
It is like doing acitivity in a dream.  He has said this to Maurice
Frydman in one of His conversations.

This article which seems written by Maurice Frydman is actually yours, it has become yours when you have read it. Its again your thought. Like this all the various books written by various devotees are verily their own (your) thoughts.

Is it not just a thought again? that Bhagawan had thoughts, dreams, ate, drank etc...? whose thoughts are these? Who is the 'I' to whom these thoughts arise? please see.

They are all just thoughts.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Dear I,

The 'Jiva' is there so long thoughts exists. Thoughts themselves is verily 'Jiva'

You are Thoughts. As long as thoughts are there, You are there!

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Dear I,

So you chose to see the dog or the tree in your corridor
did you chose to "think" a particular thought?

if you chose, then we can discuss.
if u did not chose, how can u chose not to have them ???
its not in ur hands at all!

I din't quite get what you are conveying here.

The question is that why a need arised to see the dog. In particular only the dog, please introspect and tell me.

To tell me means introspection, you are not telling me in reality, but to yourself

Saluations to Sri Ramana

General topics / Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« on: January 12, 2010, 08:06:00 PM »
Dear I,

1. The moment one does something if its lost ... than Ramana was doing so many things! what do u intend to say? ;)

Why are you - Mind trying to know how Ramana was? is it of any help to you? You - Mind can never know Ramana. It is You - Mind - thoughts that is asking You - 'I' this questions - "than Ramana was doing so many things! what do u intend to say?" Please enquire who is the 'I' to whom this question has come! Who am 'I'

Who is the one that saw Ramana doing so many things? He is to be enquired first! Who is Ramana and Who is the You - 'I' that saw Ramana doing so many things.

More primarily, what is 'Doing'? What are 'Things', that you are talking about?

And when you mentioned - "what do u intend to say?" Pleas tell me actually to whom are you asking this question? Who is the "u" in "what do u intend to say?"

2.what kind of self inquiry are you talking about Nagaraj?

When a thought came ...

and you remembered that you have to question to whom it has come...
the original thought is already over. the thought now is this remembrance.
while the illusion is created as if you are killing the previous thought!!

and if u did not remember, you cannot ask the question either.

so u sit for just be ... and the thought arose ... it did not ask u permission to arise. it just arose.... and nothing can be done about it! u try it tomorrow. just sit. thought arises. when you remembered your self inquiry and tried to use it to "resolve that thought" ... this remembrance is slow. by that time the thought has already passed away.

infact the reason u r saying this always but not doing it is ... u r not able to do it ... coz its impractical!

First, please tell me - You - 'I'(Please introspect), why the thought arised. Then we can look further!

Salutations to Sri Ramana

General topics / Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« on: January 12, 2010, 07:54:58 PM »
Dear I,

Is eating and drinking also part of effort and one requires to refrain from them to "Just Be"?
What do you say?

I am trying to understand whether it can be classified as a thoughtful or thoughtless activity.

Why do you - 'I' want to know, whether eating and drinking also is part of effort and whether one has to refrain from them to "Just Be" - please see, this very need is taking you - 'I' away from Just Being. This is what you - 'I' - Mind - Thought is doing. Questioning!

Just for purposes of clarity, in a thoughtless (state) what matters to you - 'I' ? why speculate about it now Thinking about it? what ever you think about it now, is going to be false as it falls in the realms of thoughts only!

A honest answer thought can give is - "you - thought - 'I' will know answer for your question only in thought-less (state) {in reality you will never know for you - thoughts will never be there to know this answer}

Ideally, Ramana Mahashi would say, first get to the thoughtless (state) and then ask this question.  :)

You - 'I' (as in - Thoughts) can never know Manonasham (state) what ever you know is just thought alone! Please see, it is you - 'I' - Mind - thought that is just hungry for thinking - Thoughts, Mind just want to procreate for continuity for eternity.

Please see, as I mentioned in other posts about the Sushupti (State), is there any hunger, thirst, life, Body, others, world, are you there? where are these questions about the effort and effortlessness, activity and inactivity!

Salutations to Sri Ramana

General topics / Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« on: January 12, 2010, 04:19:09 PM »
Dear I,

The moment you responded, you are not just being. You - 'I' - Thoughts just don't want to be. see it wants to continue.

But moments of anger, jealousy, lust, fear, worry , guilt ... they come automatically ... very fast. So fast that the person does not get time to remember your statement until some time!  

they don't come automatically, it comes because there is a need for all these emotions. To put it more clearly, these emotions arise because when any thought which arises and questions the very foundation of you - 'I' - your thoughts, then it responds frantically, anger, fear, etc.. comes because it itself is under threat, its place is under question. hence these emotions arise.

And at the same time, if any emotions such as comforting or happiness arises, it is nothing but anything that is conforming to what it already knows, it feels stronger, its place is assured, hence such emotions.

emotions such as lust arise because of its inherent need of security to exist permanently. Lust need not necessarily be physical, money, material etc.. are all accumulated because of insecurity or incmpleteness.

If the person is already JUST IS, this is redundant to say.
if the person is not already JUST IS, this statement does not help him ... coz his mind wont allow him to just be! he has no choice.  

If the person is already as you say Just Is, then he would not have posted it here. and as you say "if the person is not already JUST IS, this statement does not help him ... coz his mind wont allow him to just be! he has no choice." is because, thoughts have to die, Manonasham is this. Thoughts - you - 'I' need thoughts to survive.

The very moment you read this post you have already put effort. Just Be is zero effort. zero thinking, where you can't see that you are not thinking for if you begin to see that you are not thinking, you have put an effort there. Just Be.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Dear I,

What do you mean "what is the need to see the dog". The dog is seen. Its not a choice. You are seeing. You are seeing all this. The moment you see you will have thoughts flashing. What is the need ?? Its not in your hands. Things are happening. Even if you close your eyes, perceptions will be there ... there is no choice here!

As you are seeing this reply, why do you see just the words and sentences, why don't you see the monitor, the computer? are not these sentences now in the computer? but you - "I' just sees the reply, because, it is more interested in what it wants. How come it is not aware of the computer but only the words, here? see, this is what it wants, thoughts wants thoughts!

Everyday, we may read hundreds of articles in newspaper, stories and other contents in various different magazines and papers, when you were reading all these, were you aware about the paper in first place? you - 'I' wouldn't have even seen or registered the paper, because, we - 'I' is more interested in what it needs, the thoughts that are written.

In the Dog illustration, why only Dog, is registered and not the earth or mud, or any other thing for that matter, because there is some sort of need of recollecting about the past happenings. Even remembering your past - memories is just a need, a desire, you cherish your memories - good or bad.

As long as you - 'I' - thoughts are there, thoughts lasts, perception will be there. You - 'I' are nothing thoughts themselves.

Thoughts are nothing but Vasanas.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Humour / Re: "mano" equations
« on: January 12, 2010, 08:17:53 AM »
Dear I,

It is threatening the validity of the equations themselves.

Yes it is, it is a threat of life, or death itself for the mind, thought, ego, I. But some how, this mind/ego/I/thought wants to strike a compromise the best of both sides, it wants to continue to be there along with 'Self defined realisation' hence it keeps arriving at various different options and conclusions, because it wants to be there all the time!

Salutations to Sri Ramana

General topics / Re: How to watch the sense 'I am'
« on: January 11, 2010, 09:28:47 PM »
Dear I,

It takes a mammoth effort to do something, to think and it takes absolutely no effort at all to simply be. This is the greatest irony that 'mind' thinks  other wise and never rests! This is the essence of 'I am'

Just cast of the very need to understand this and simply be. do not attempt to know or even bother to answer your question, cast of your very question itself, relax and just be. You do not need to know anything about "I am" that is really being 'I am'

Salutations to Sri Ramana

Dear I,

Suppose, 'I' - 'you' land up in some abyss of confusion, where you find yourself unable to enquire 'who am I' then just see and introspect what happened to 'I', thoughts, mind, the situation of confusion during deep sleep o Sushupti.

1. Where were 'I' - 'you' in deep sleep - Sushupti
2. Where were all these situations, thoughts during Sushupti or deep sleep
3. The one that is seeing all these and introspecting is only during Jagrat or during awake-state or Swapna or Dream state. Where was 'I' - 'you' during deep sleep? where were 'I' - 'you' during Sushupti - deep sleep, where did 'I' - 'you' get missing
4. Where were all the questions, sorrows, irritation, liberation, desires, Bhagawan, 'I' - 'you', God, world during deep sleep.

Who am I?               Who am I?               Who am I?

Salutations to Sri Ramana

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