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Messages - Nagaraj

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4396
Dear I,

I would rather put it this way:

When the glass tumbler is half filled with water. One says its half filled and the other says its half empty.

Thats all is the difference.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4397
Absolutely, nothing greater than this.

The eternal Dakshinamurthy Himself.

4398
Dear I,

                    I agree with your comments as above.When we know that who am I is simply holding on to the "I", why so many posts in this forum on various headings on various topics?.Bhagavan has given his  first teaching "Naan Yar' crystal clear without any room for doubt  and still do we require endless discussions on his teachings ?It is enough if only Bhagavan's teachings alone are published in this site as being done by  Sri Subramanian and Mr.Prasanth (Both of them are doing great service) and there are sufficient material for them  to publish more of Bhagaan's works for many years.This will help members who have not so far gone thro his books  and for the one who has already gone through , it will help to refresh.Few years back, Swami Chinmayananda was invited to a Ramana function and was asked to deliver his talk on Bhagavan Ramana.He did not deliver lecture and instead sat in silence forsome time and at the end told the audience that this is what bhagavan's teaching.Bhagavan says that Silence is ever speaking and it is interrupted by speaking.Are we following his teachings?

You are absolutely correct. The best course is to simply maintain silence. I have always found the tamizh works of Ramana more clearer than any of the other languages, it may be because it is my mother tongue, but I did not know how to read or write tamizh, but due to Bhagavan's grace, I am learning to read and write tamizh now atleast I am able to read it slowly though.

Personally, I feel, Bhagavan's teachings are to be discussed within the Self alone, in the course of enquiry itself and not outside. One has to taste the tea himself to know its taste, no matter what elaboration anybody gives, is going to be of no avail.

It is due to the Vasana of finding out answers to our questions that breeds questions and endless discussions. Bhagavans says, we need not know any answers at all. We fail to recognise the very presence of Bhagavan Ramana, if he is not there physically, does it mean that he is not going to clear our questions within? its because of this wrong notion, that we begin to discuss our issues or questions and it leads to analyses over analyses. What we need is a strong belief or Faith or Shraddha that Bhagavan will clear all doubts Himself and I need not ask anybody and that He himself will reveal it to me in any way, maybe an unknown person would come and say something in some other context, or through some incidents. We just need to remain alive and keep the enquiry always going. Like how Dhathathreya had 24 Gurus, most of them being animals, in a similar way, Bhagavan will bestow on us the clarity in some way or the other.

To ask doubts and discussing it is going outwards. We have to remain within our self - holding on just to 'I' alone.

In Talks:

253: Bhagavan has said “The illiterates are certainly better off than the literates whose egos are not destroyed by the quest of the self.”

355: "Illiteracy is ignorance: education is learned ignorance. Both of them are ignorant of their true aim; whereas a sage is not ignorant because there is no aim for him."

D.: Mind itself is very subtle and is also the same as the Atman.
How shall we know the nature of the mind? You have said that all
supports are useless. What should be our stand then?
M.: Where does your mind stand?
D.: Where does it stand?
M.: Ask the mind itself.
D.: I ask you now. Should we concentrate on mind then?
M.: Um!
D.: But what is the nature of the mind? It is formless. The problem
is perplexing.
M.: Why are you perplexed?
D.: The sastras want us to concentrate and I cannot do so.
M.: Through what sastras have we known our existence?
D.: It is a matter of experience. But I want to concentrate.
M.: Be free from thoughts. Do not hold on to anything. They do not
hold you. Be yourself.
D.: I do not yet understand as to where I take my stand and concentrate.
Can I meditate on my mind?
M.: Whose mind?
D.: My own mind?
M.: Who are you? The question now resolves itself all right.
(All retired for lunch. The visitor returned at 2-30 p.m. and pursued
the same question.)
He said: Maharshi advises the seeker to get rid of thoughts. On what
should I concentrate the mind after all the thoughts are expelled? I
do not see where I stand then and on what I should concentrate.
M.: For whom is the concentration?
D.: For the mind.
M.: Then concentrate the mind.
D.: On what?
M.: Answer the question yourself. What is the mind? Why should
you concentrate?
D.: I do not know what the mind is. I ask Maharshi.
M.: Maharshi does not seek to know the mind. The questioner must
question the mind itself as to what it is.
D.: Maharshi advises that the mind should be divested of thoughts.
M.: This is itself a thought.

D.: When all thoughts disappear what remains over?
M.: Is the mind different from thoughts?
D.: No. The mind is made up of thoughts. My point is this: When all
thoughts are got rid of, how shall I concentrate the mind?
M.: Is not this also a thought?

D.: Yes, but I am advised to concentrate.
M.: Why should you concentrate? Why should you not allow your
thoughts free play?
D.: The sastras say that the thoughts, thus playing free, lead us astray,
that is, to unreal and changeful things.
M.: So then, you want not to be led to unreal and changeful things. Your
thoughts are unreal and changeful. You want to hold the Reality. That
is exactly what I say. The thoughts are unreal. Get rid of them.
D.: I understand now. Yet there is a doubt. “Not a trice can you remain
inactive.” How shall I be able to rid myself of thoughts?
M.: The same Gita says: “Although all actions take place, I am not the doer.”
It is like the sun towards the world activities. The Self always remains
actionless, whereas thoughts arise and subside. The Self is Perfection; it
is immutable; the mind is limited and changeful. You need only to cast
off your limitations. Your perfection thus stands revealed.

D.: Grace is necessary for it.
M.: Grace is ever present. All that is necessary is that you surrender to It.
D.: I surrender and pray that even if I go wrong I may be forcibly
drawn to it.
M.: Is this surrender? Surrender to be complete must be
unquestioning.

D.: Yes, I surrender. You say I must dive into the ocean of the Self
like a pearl-diver into the sea.
M.: Because you are now thinking that you are out of the ocean of
Consciousness.
D.: I practise pranayama. It generates heat in the body. What should
I do?
M.: The heat will pass away when the mind gains calm
D.: That is true but most difficult.
M.: This is again a thought which is an obstacle.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4399
Here is the classic pic taken from the famous movie Adi Shankaracharya. Its one of the best examples as to how our enquiry has to be carried on:



Crow and dove.Crow is the doer, the active one.The dove is the passive observer, the atman(inner self) - our attention should be always focussed only on this.

instead of focusing our attention on the 'I', if the Dove begins to fight with the crow, it is only going to cause damage and loss of peace. Just remaining indifferent to what is happening, remaining in the world, carrying out our duties, we should remain like the Dove with our attention focused on the Self till our Prarabhha karma is dissolved.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4400
It is the tendancy of our nature that we complicate things by not only our own analysis but also analysis of analyses itself.

Who am I is simply holding on to the 'I'. All the analysis are to be given absolutely no importance at all. one need not even learn all these intricacies. After all what is the real objective? is not to hold on to the 'I'? its like, we forget the main dishes served in an plantain leaf and showing more interest in the "echils" - food spilt down from our mouth.

These are just tools for 'I' so that it can simply continue in the garb of spiritual enquiry and enjoy its existence. It does not at akk matter if awareness is watching awareness or awareness is not watching awareness, whether Ramana's teachings are same as Michal James or different, whether Bhakti yoga is same as Jnana Yoga or different. Whether my point is accepted here or rejected. whether the discussions  is helping or not.

'I'   -    just hold on to it, everything else is play and only play: Merry-Go-Round

Self Enquiry is like the passive observer. A classic example which Shankara Bhagavatpadal has given is that of the bird Dove which lays eggs and carefully guards it everyday and accumulates food for it from various places and when the eggs are going to hatch, one day the crow comes pushes the eggs down from the nest and eats all the eggs and just born dove. The dove, which comes there just sees all this without reaction. It just remains.

Such should be our enquiry.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4401
General topics / Re: Ramanashramam Visit
« on: June 26, 2010, 11:17:28 AM »
Om Namo Bhagavate sri ramanaya

Salutations to Sri Ramana



4402
General topics / Re: Spiritual search is changing me...
« on: June 26, 2010, 11:04:28 AM »
That which is changing is not you, and that by which you are able to see that spiritual search is changing you, is You.

4403
General topics / Ramanashramam Visit
« on: June 26, 2010, 10:20:47 AM »
Dear I (Subramanianji)

You had mentioned about your visit to Ramanashramam on 19th and 20th and since its Sri Guru's will that you not post any new topics here, I request you to please share your experiences in Ramanashramam as a response to this post.

Thank You

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4404
General topics / Re: Karna
« on: June 26, 2010, 10:16:02 AM »
Dear I,

I have always had some emotional connect with Karna, I don't know why. There is some greatness in him that nobody else had in Mahabharata.

When all Pandavas died, they were all taken to hell first for all their sins. Only Yudhishtra was taken in a Golden chariot to Heaven, and on reaching Heaven, hist first glance fell upon Duryodhana and he searched and searched for all his brothers, but there was no trace of them anywhwere and upon enquiry with Yamadeva, he learnt about them being in Hell. He was shocked and questioned Yamdeva about how could of all Duryodhana be in heaven and his brothers in hell, it is absurd!!

Then, Yamadeva narated to him how Duryodhana landed up in heaven. After his death in the battle, Duryodhana was taken to hell for his deeds, and soon after the death of Karna, the Devas came with a Golden chariot and escorted him to heaven, upon reaching heaven, Karna had only one thought in his mind, of his beloved friend Duryodhana. He searched and searched and when he was not to be found anywhere, he enquired with Yamadeva, and when he learnt that Duryodhana was in Hell, he could not control his tears, he immediately asked for himself to be sent to Hell near his dearest friend Duryodhana, and when Yamdeva refused and said that he can never do that because of his various misdeeds, Karna still insisted that atleast he be sent to hell and it doesn't matter to him, if he is in hell or heaven as long as he is with his beloved friend Duryodhana, such was his loyalty towards his friendship with Duryodhana. But Yamadeva too could not do that or even think about a person like Karna suffer in Hell, he pursuaded Karna that he would give him more luxuries and pleasures and highest place in heaven, still Karna, who was in sorrow, refused. Finally, Yamadeva had to bring Duryodhana to heaven just for the sake of Karna. After hearing this, Yudhishtra could not but just be at 'awe' on Karna.

Such was the greatness of Karna.

This also illustrates about the greatness of Satsangh.

To my knowledge, Krishna is the only Brahmajnani.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4405
Dear I,

I would like to add just one more.

So solution is to know that we are not the mind and it is mithya i.e dependent on our real naturre i.e sat-chit-ananda.

The very first step and the only Step (which implies Absolute Sharanagati or Absolute Jnana), is to stop looking for a solution at all. This itself is the very problem. Solution itself is Mithya. For whom is solution required? If you look in and see, you will find that its only a Mithya that has been looking for a solution.

Trying to define Mithya or Asat or Illusion or Maya is trying to give some value for zero or infinity.

No Solution is required, Nothing need change. Truth is perfect as It Is.

The Sage says, Reliase this Truth and be at Peace.

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4406
Ultimately, Bhakthi and Jnana are just one and the same,

Bhakti yoga is to absolutely not bother about all these whether they are illusions, about consciousness, etc.. and just remain at the Lotus feet of Lord abiding which is abiding as Self

Jnana Yoga is realising the truth of all these - illusions and maya and then just remaining as pure Self where all the external phenomenon cease to affect one

4407
Dear I,

Those are very wise words...

Absolutely Correct and very True! all your observations.


4408
In this discussion, the fundamental question would be:

1.   Who are you   

and

2.   Who is Mind

Q - Are you different from your Mind?
A - No, you are not then Why should Mind trouble us?
Q - Are you the Mind itsef?
A - Yes so long you are enquiring for Self

Why this whole problem is arising? because of the wrong notion that there is "mind" and there is "me" Is mind got powers of its own that it can control us? No, Mind is inert, Mind is not differnt from me! Then if Mind is not different from me, then who am I? I must be the mind itself, So I am the Mind, Who am I troubling then? I am troubling myself, Mind am I, the lesser Self.

Is there another Pure Self apart from this I, I am talking about? No there cannot be. This Mind which I am talking about is given existence because of me, I am the one that gives it life by  thinking. WHo am I? Who am I?

Where from This I is originating? enquire, enquire, enquire,

This 'I' this false I this limited I, this Mind is actually naught.

Without Mind who could I be? the limited I asks, The limited I again through Jnana, Viveka, and through grace of Guru, realises its real nature, of Silence, Mauna, Nirvikalpa, the consciousness whic is the source of all I.

When ever the Mind I comes up, your self, through the grace of consciousness, not letting it go out, and putting it under the divine prison of Self, the false I merges with Itself.

Its verily like an actor who is addicted to acting, every now and then begins to put different 'vesha' or characeters and begins to go out from Self. Each time this desire originates, just stopping yourself from putting a new 'vesha' - that discrimination is the consciousness.

There is no mind, different from I,  the Mind, I, and Self are all one and the same. ]

Mind is as good as the Snake in Rope and Snake.

and the Consciousness is neither Rope nor Snake.

Consciousness

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4409
a) Is it really necessary for us to kill our mind to achieve self-realisation?

The mind that we propose to kill, is just as good as a rope mistaken for a snake. The person who contemplates to either kill or not kill is as good as a Self mistaken for a rope.

b) How long can/should a person really stay in turiya(wakeful sleep) state?

The moment one is 'said to be' in 'Turiya' as it is Akala, beyond the realms for time. It is timeless, who is there to perceive how much time has passed by? So long one is able to perceive that he is in Turiya state and keeps a check of how much time has passed, know that it is not Turiya and the mind has still not merged with Self.

c) If our teeth bite our tongue do we suggest to remove the teeth so that all problems will be solved? :-)

The Teeth biting the tongue - Neither the teeth nor the tongue complains, The one which bites (Teeth) and the one which is hurt (Tongue) is not botherd. It is only the 'I' that reacts. Who are we to decide to remove the teeth? the tongue and teeth would say, mind your business, first you find out who you are and then you come and decide what to do with us - tongue and teeth.

Who are you? Who am I? Please enquire and give possible answers!

Salutations to Sri Ramana

4410
Infact, Tirumoolar, the don of Saiva Siddhanta of South, Sri Tirumoolar, whom we owe a lot, is from Kashmir.

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