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Messages - Nagaraj

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4066
:) Self does not have attributes. neither samatvam nor the opposite.
Self is beyond both. Both sama-dristi and partiality [whats the sanskrit word for it?] , are there as properties of mind in the presence of Self.

dear srkudai,

if ego/mind itself does not exist, how can it own anything?

Samatvam is derived from Sama + Tvam which means - Same are you, you are same or you are yourself which again only conveys the essence of Maha Tatvas such as Tat Tvam Asi

Salutations to Bhagavan

4067
Dear srkudai,

Quote
So when I say mind is not there ... its not a statement be said ... its a pointer for the mind to resolve itself into Self.... with no one to say. This pointer in mind, purifies the mind and makes it Suddha manas. when mind is suddha, it is automatically resolved in Self!


well again, don't you also see that its again the mind giving pointer to itself? pointer to itself to resolve itself? why should it be necessary? when mind is really non existent? why purify something that does not exist? If only Self exists, why then should ego exists?


I agree with you and and at the same time, what I have observed is that this pointer is not enough for our mind, ego still persists, in the guise of purifying itself.


Why even purify, why cant we discard it as it is with all the dirt of rajas and tamas and satwa? why do we need to make it shuddha before discarding it?


Dropping expectation is dropping mind itself, no matter if its satwa, rajas or tamas.


The bigger point is that even after this pointer, the mind does not go away, it stays, continues...


Salutations to Bhagavan

4068
"Samatvam" is Self itself

4069
Quote
When someone brought a fan, Bhagavan asked them to take it back. why do you think Bhagavan did that ?

Bhagavan said that because, he was being given special attention in a hot sunny day while many devotees who were sitting down were all sweating and He did not encourage his attendants to give him special attention by bringing him a fan just for him alone! Such was his Samatva Bhava.

4070
dear Srkudai,

you say -

  • it is the ego that wants to know
how can a non existing ego get to know?

and again in the end you say that

  • So ultimately ... the mind has to undo all its notions ... disassociate itself from them ... and just remain. Thats it.

It is again the mind/ego that gets to know! :)

you are saying again that the mind or the ego itself has to undo its notion and just remain.

Its one and the same! On a lighter side, its the ego that is asking - "If I am not there, where am I? " :D

Salutations to Bhagavan

4071
Dear srkudai, amiatal

its much to do with not knowing the Truth yet and actually less to do with seiousness. If one truly knew the reality, then seriousness is automatic. when a human body is dead, we begin to call the human as "It/body"and no more by his name! it drops automatically, seriousness is simultaneous

Light of discernment itself is Seriousness as result. as In when the fruit is ripe, it falls down, similarly, expectations fall when truly complete discernment is attained. Which as a mater of fact - we don't know

4072
Dear srkudai,

I am in deed trying to investigate the reasons for such dichotomy you have mentioned.

yes, there is  contradiction! It raises certain questions whether it is even possible to act without having expectation, to act without having the desire for the fruits, is it even possible! Hence a need arises to question our own understanding as well!

Its not that we are not serious, truly it is because we still have not attained that discernment! Basically WE DON'T KNOW   ;)

Salutations to Bhagavan

4073
Dear srkudai, amiatal,

The grace of Light can be felt only in darkness. Arjuna was given the Gitopadesa during a battle, in the same lines, we are in a battle field of our very own, words such as intellctual understanding etc... are only used for mediums for communication.

I am completely in agreement that either one knows it or does not know it. We are all here only because, we are still not reached that distinction yet and hence we are seeking light from the grace of Bhagavan.

Whether we term it as practical or otherwise, we are facing situations of contradiction in most moments of our life and its only due to lack of proper discernment that we are unable to stand straight for we are in midst of utter confusion as udai pointed out, in our daily life, we are in times whether we have to follow rules or not, whether to pay bribe or not and many many more such contradiction.

What i am trying to investigate is that inspite of 'knowing' that we should drop all expectations, we are unable to carry out that manner (hard truth) which is the fact and this is simply because contradiction still exists and we have been tying to surrender innumerable no. of times are still failed at it! It all goes to show that we are missing something very fundamental, very basic, which we are unable to discern! It raises certain questions whether it is even possible to act without having expectation, to act without having the desire for the fruits, is it even possible! Hence a need arises to question our own understanding as well!

Salutations to Bhagavan

4074
Dear srkudai,

What i conveyed is this conversation with Bhagavan given below -

Quote
in Talks 282,

D.: If the advaita is final, why did Madhvacharya teach dvaita?
M.: Is your Self dvaita or advaita? All systems agree on Self surrender. Attain it first, then there will be time to judge whose view is right or otherwise.

Well, its of absolutely no use to discuss if it is Advaita or Dvaita or Visishtadvaita for all of them agree that everybody has to attain Atma-Jnanam and they all agree that we are not the body but the Atma. So Bhagavan clearly states that instead of delving into whether it is dvaita or advaita or visishtadvaita, first we have to attain atma Jnanam.

The debate whether the Atma-Jnanam is Advaita or Visishtadvaita or Dvaita can be looked into after Atma-Jnanam. Therefore it is our immediate concern that we focus completely in realising this Atma and abide as the Atma which we truly are. It does not matter if it is advaita or dvaita or visishtadvaita. I tried to convey this aspect.

Subramanian Sir,

This reply by Bhagavan conveys everything in a nutshell -

Quote
Bhagavan: The question of doing only arises if you are the body.

I feel we need to delve more in to this statement by Bhagavan and how we can live this in our practical daily life without the identofication with body, intellectually I understand, we all understand what Bhagavan says but when it comes to crux of the situation, we get carried away and we lose this recognition, no matter how much we try. This discernment is not complete yet for, if we get the absolute discernment, then we can never fall from our Tapas.

Salutations to Bhagavan

4075
Dear srkudai,

while i have little difference with your in this understanding (we have discussed this even before), like Bhagavan says, all the 3 - advaitins, visishtadwaitins and dwaitins - all of them agree with the realisation of oneself as Atma as he says, first its important to realise oneself and thereafter we can discern whether it is advaita, visishtadwaita or dwaita. I admit I started it in my previous post, but lets leave it for it is not of relevance as the more immediate concern is constant abidance as the Self. How can we strive to achieve stillness in action without our minds being perturbed!

salutations to Bhagavan

4076
Its like Action in Stillness

its like violating the law of magnets - "like poles repel and unlike poles attract"

In this case of Atma Nishta it is "like poles attract"

fore really thereis only one, there is neither like pole or unlike pole but still it remains like Mirage.

udai, you always mention that after discernment, the mirage will remain, but it will not affect you. This is the theory of Visishtadwaita of Ramanuja. Where as in advaita, that mirage does not exist at all. as in, the seer of mirage and seen (mirage) is one and the same!

Intellectually one can only reach to Ramanujars theory and what Shankara and Ramanar saw is beyond.

4077
Dear srkudai,

I agree with you. you are correct, I guess most of us face this problem, if we are able to discern to remain in abidance as we do our work then there would be no difficulty. yes we need to overcome the pull of our vasanas then and there with our conscious effort - is the way!

just going with the flow of the river of life as it goes instead of force changing the direction of the river of life!

4078
Dear Prashant,

this feeling has to be Akala - timeless. We all only have glimpses i.e. bound by time, we have such feelings for just few seconds or minutes and then its lost.

we have to strive to achieve such abidance continues, for instance, when we sit to meditate, we sit with an intention already that I will mediate for 1 hour because after 1 hour I have to go to work, or after 1 hour I have to meet some person, etc...

there are 2 options -

  • Either practice to continue the abidance even after 1 hour in our work or while meeting people constantly.
  • or complete renunciation of everything and practice to remain in absolute abidance.

It has to be continues, however depending the nature of the person. we have to strive for such continues tapas, non stop like aajya dhaaraya - continues flow of the ghee like a thread

Salutations to Bhagavan

4079
yes very true, infact, doership of karmas only indicates expectation of a particular result.

But not all karmas an be classified as the above. I mean, certain karmas which we have unwisely chosen in the past, with some desire to its fruits, are no longer relevant after this discernment. For example, say Jai had wanted to become a great businessman and very famous and he also had good mind and also thought that when he earns lots of money, he would do a lot of charity, he would help poor people and he would do lots of Sevas for people and he would do lot of Pujas for God etc...

you know, when the light over Karma daws on Jai, he realises that all these are unnecessary, what is more important than all the above is complete abidance in Self and that itself is the greatest service.

"sukha tyagi , krishna bogi, nrpa janaka raghavau ..." beautiful quotation, also it is said that Krishna was a Brahmachari even though he had thousands of wives!

The magnitude of Karmas what Krishna did is unfathomable and yet he remained a Sthithah Prajna. Where as Ramanar did very very meagre karmas. Its just choice or we can say their respective prarabdha karma!

Krishna could have chosen to remain like Ramanar and Ramanar could have chosen to be like Krishna!

For me to look at Krishna is absolutely unfathomable, to live like Krishna is impossible, only in 4 yugas only one Krishna was there, Krishna way is not even graspable, I mean to live like krishna is verily impossible atleast in my case.

Where as Ramanar, also made lot of choices, he chose not to allow devotees to prostrate, if he willed he could have made a great Peetham like a Shankara Matam for posterity and also he chose not to have a sishya parampara.

we have the right to make some wise choices, i felt.

Its impossible to be like Krishna. again this is different for each person based on their nature.

Salutations to Bhagavan


4080
Dear srkudai,

it subtly also conveys that we have a choice over our Karmas. What we do - we have choice on this But not on the outcome!

Personally, in my case, I observed that most karmas that I am doing, are really not at all necessary but just doing it as a course of past conditioning or due to making past unwise choices! Now that discernment and recognition seems to sprout showing light on the Karmas.

Its quite clear enough in this that we have choice over what we do and we CAN CHOSE WISELY what minimal we can do! Its also 100% sure that the very life is only for the purpose of realising oneself and in perfect abidance. Instead of this, out of avidya, we have got onto ourselves various Karmas in the past, whose fruits, we are being fed today! So we should be careful and wise not to make any more newer karmas. Just finish off accepting the fruits of our past karmas and remain perfectly still. Simply being.

Karma is hindrance for abidance.

When we have choice to chose what we can do, we also have the wise choice to NOT DO ANYTHING too  and just be :)

your thoughts?

Salutations to Bhagavan

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