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Messages - Nagaraj

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3991
Dear Udai,

When we deeply look within, that a thorn is a thorn is "Not Real" and the need of another thorn to remove this thorn too is unreal. Its not there really!

What is "Practical point of view" I fail to understand. by asserting "Practical Point" aren't we not, out of maya giving existence to a mirage really? and more so, when we say as practical point, then there should be its opposite view too, like - "in deep reality, its different and in practical matters its different." Do you see what I am conveying, there are dualities I mean. Which is not really!

and when you say "For most of us" do you include others also in your replies of just yourself? for I felt, each one can talk only for Himself, "that other" is really mithya.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3992
General topics / Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« on: October 07, 2011, 10:59:40 AM »
and some more views, as a matter of fact, yes, as Bhagavan's way is the Direct Way, for instance, we tend to lose interest on rituals etc... and see no purpose in all these activities, even then we should respect the faith that people have in these and we should participate in all these rituals in the same fervor as they are with the discernment.

We, most primarily as Bhagavan's devotees should not be the ones who make the differences perceived. I felt this is what Bhagavan would have wanted from us

:)

Salutations to Bhagavan

3993
General topics / Re: worship of bhagavan/Arunachala and human relations
« on: October 07, 2011, 10:25:18 AM »
Yes these problems are evident to most of Bhagavan devotees But we should go above these differences. The very fact that we are able to cognise these differences also indicate the difference perceptions that are within ourselves too. Feelings such as 'We are Bhagavan's devotees', and they are other followers, etc.. are all negative works of our mind. We ought to discern and recognise this truth and Be casual with everybody and not make the differences evident among others as it is the same Self that is in everybody.

We should be like the Lotus in water, yet un-wet. As Bhagavan's devotees, its our primary duty to look beyond these differences and be all loving unconditionally with everybody is my humble opinion and all saints are Ramanar Himself, be it Sai Baba or anybody, We should be able to see Bhagavan in all Gurus, who are venerated by so many people. There are no differences between Guru's.

Bhagavan's own conduct with all people are only a lesson for us devotees on how we ought to live in the world and yet strive to remain in the abidance of the Self.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3994
Give up even "Giving up"

So long we have the desire to give up or surrender, then it indicates a 'concept', we all are quite influenced about various ideas about surrendering and what it means to surender, what it means to give up, etc... and we can never attain that concept surrendering, giving up really, because, its "imaginary" not real. That state of surrendered never exists that which we already are! please see this! We are already Surrendered by default! There is nothing to practice here really! Practice applies only for concepts! One cant practice the reality! One cant practice being Self. One cant practice Surrendering, please see the reality! Discern friends!

This practice applies for worldly affairs, if you want to become a carom champion or a good tennis player you need to practice, not for Surrendering, not for Self enquiry! But offcourse, we can practice Concept Surrendering, concept giving up, concept spirituality! Please abolish the word practice from our inner dictionary!

Surrender does not mean any of those ideas, concepts we are thinking about and surely not by practicing all that!

Who really is there to surrender? What do we own to surrender really? Friends, just take a moment and look within if we really own anything that we can surrender?

We we want to Surrender ourselves? ok, but to whom? Is there an another to surrender? Is God not in you so that you can surrender to God? Recognise this friends, our concepts are hilarious, lets all pray Asatomaah Sadgamayah (Lead us from Darkness to Light)

Right from childhood days, we are only being taught to become slaves to concepts, Unreality, Fiction, ideas assimilated by humans since human first took birth, Since creation and over the ages and it has gone over our head which has resulted in the illusory feeling of "I", "mine", ego, mind has been shaped.

Just looking within, did we own anything before we were born? where were we before birth? This body belongs to God, this Nature belongs to God, the food we eat belongs to God, what does not belong to God that we can claim ours first and then even think about surrendering! All the Charity Karmas have been laid out only to arrive at this discernment. Anna Daanam (Food Charity, and all other charities) who does charity to whom really?

All the RITUALS ARE FULL OF ESSENCE, AND WE CANNOT RUBBISH IT OUT. in every HOMAM that we do, after the obelation or offering done onto the fire in the kundam, the Karta or the performer says "idam, na mama" ((O Lord, all this is) Yours, NOT mine)" Nothing is ours. Every Karma has been laid out only for our Enlightenment only!

Friends, we have to liberate ourselves from "Concept Knowledge" and see the light of "True Knowledge" Discern the Reality!

When I remember about surrendering, I remember one of my friend who was having some problems and when I said to that person, just forget everything and surrender everything to God and He shall take care, to which that person replied "hmm, am tired of surrendering, surrendering, surrendering ... am just so tired! If at all I can surrender anymore now I only can go to police station and surrender" :D

This way, we need to be able to Discern friends, there is no point in blindly surrendering, it is not possible to Surrender! what to surrender really friends? FREE YOURSELVES FROM CONCEPTS. RECOGNISE YOU ARE ALREADY FREE, YOU ARE ALREAY SURRENDERED BY DEFAULT! CONCEPTS ARE NOT BINDING US, WE ARE BOUND BLINDLY ON THEM DUE TO AVIDYA, IGNORANCE! DISCERN, DISCERN, DISCERN reacognise the reality of these concepts, these concepts are like the snake in the snake rope phenomenon!

Give up these ideas of surrendering,

Give up Giving up

Surrender Surrendering


If somebody keeps a heated iron on our hand its going to pain and the body is going to feel he pain and shout "Aaaah" (not you :)) Its absolutely normal :) to loosing control  in day to day activities, shouting at that auto fellow, etc... shouting at office juniors, rogues, etc...  Recognise, be aware of the truth constantly

(recognise that losing control thought is just a Concept)

Its only because, we are not giving way to this True Discernment that lays bright as the Sun within that we are wanting to Surrender, Give up etc... want to improve, want to be a better disciple, etc...

Become aware of the difference between the real and unreal and the doership automatically ceases. Recognise by steady discernment that Doership also is concept only! and once this Discernement Light of True Knowledge takes over, then WE NEED NOT WORRY ABOUT THE RESULTS OF OUR SHOUTING, your shouting is correct by default, the action is by default correct, as its Gods will, not yours (with the discernment off-course) and automatically we have no intention/desire on the results, fruits of actions exactly as said by krishna. This cant be achieved by practice, One cant practice not to have desire for the actions we perform, recognise, discern friends! this is so very important and fundamental, for practice applies only for concepts and not reality! we cant practice to not have desires! We ought to Discern!

for Vedas PROCLAIM

DHARMO RAKSHATI RAKSHTAH God protects those who protect Dharma

SWALPAMASYA DHARMASYA TRAAYATO MAHATO BHUYAAT Even a little bit of this practice of Dharma will save you from dire fears and colossal sufferings [Bhagavad Gita 2:40]

when Krishna said, SARVADHARMAAN PARITYAJYA, MAAMEKAM SHARANAM MAMA. he meant to free ourselves from CONCEPT DHARMA  and  MAAMEKAM SHARANAM MAMA meant, surrender to the one that only is, there is no other, Maam Ekam, (I, only, one) 

Dharma is this only.... the meaning and essence of Dharma is only this Discernment. and be assured, you can never commit any offense, mistake if we follow Dharma! (again please discern that really there is no "following Dharma" you are Dharma already, you are Dharma itself, We are Dharma itself, We are Self itself)

Hence, friends, we should learn to first discern between the REAL AND UNREAL FIRST. We need to first be receptive to the already shining Chaitanya that is within ourselves, and close all the books on concepts and ideas. Open the doors wide open (Recognise that really there is no opening, no new concept here please :) ) so that the Goddess Lakshmi shines. Recognise the Goddess Lakshmi already within! We need not sing "Bhaagyada Lakshmi Baaramma" She is ever here shining! Let the rays of Sun soak the world around you which is the Self!

SURRENDERING IS IMPOSSIBLE. RECOGNISE THIS AND JUST BE. For What does surrender mean really?

Bhagavan says -

All talk of surrender is like stealing sugar from a sugar image of Ganesha and then offering it to the same Ganesha. You say that you offer up your body and soul and all your possessions to God, but were they yours to offer? At best you can say: ‘I wrongly imagined till now that all these, which are Yours, were mine. Now I realise that they are Yours and I shall no longer act as though they were mine.’ And this knowledge that there is nothing but God or the Self, that ‘I’ and ‘mine’ do not exist and that only the Self exists, is Jnana.

Yes, we have seen Bhagavan talk about partial surrender, for whom complete surrender is not possible! But this response was for that devotee in the question! This is not a general rule, Discern and not make this as a new concept so that you can hold onto this! There is nothing called as partial surrender or full surrender! See with the light of discernment friends!

Friends, Devotees, we need to be able to discern Bhagavan's teachings properly and not just take it in its face value literally. Bhagavn gave customised answers according to the caliber of the devotees. We have see the real Light, Discern the REAL HIDDEN REVELATION OF BHAGAVAN and not take just his replies literally and make newer concepts and newer levels of understanding. Why get stuck in the concepts of Full Surrender and Partial Surrender?

Bhagavan always pushes us to the root, What is there to surrender? who is there to surrender? What do we OWN TO SURRENDER? What is ours? and discerning this is not practice! Discernment happens only once, (actually nothing 'happens' to say if we see subtly, it is already there)

Bhagavan asks do we require to practice to know that we are man woman? do we need to to practice to discern? Nothing to practice, nothing to remember! Discern, it is said that Hamsa or a swan is capable of drinking only milk when the milk is mixed with water, this is discernment! Thats why this Hamsa term is used for a Sansayi - ParamaHamsa

Surrender anymore? practice anymore?

:)

Salutations to Bhagavan

3995
General topics / Re: Self Realization
« on: October 05, 2011, 09:10:56 AM »
I feel, its more to do with real understanding, discernment. When we don't know something for sure, it feels difficult!

Just recollecting my mathematics classes, as long as we knew the solution of a problem, the problem is difficult! in the same way is this "Summa Iuthal" too

The real problem is we know not yet! not convincingly as yet! What we know is just "Yuham" in tamil roughly to say in english, our knowing is only as close to these line of thoughts -

"could it be this? should be this only" "idu daan irkum polarku"
"could it is that? hmm, it should be that only" "adu daaan irkum polarku"
"hmm, it ought to be this state""ipdi daan irkum polarku"
"How can there be action in chumma irutha" and so on...

we don't know yet! We are still lingering with doubts... where we will be fit only for pass marks :)

We will have known the moment when Self Enquiry is no longer required or relevant, for we are that Self!

Discernment, yet to see, once its 100% with the conviction that 2+2=4, till that sort of conviction results, so long,

2+2=  :o
1+3= :-\

In that way, we are yet to really discern what Summa Iruthal really is! We don't know

Salutations to Bhagavan

3996
Humour / Last Guru Before Nirvana
« on: October 04, 2011, 06:40:35 PM »


QUOTE FROM: I AM THAT

Maharaj: Your belonging is a matter of your own feeling and conviction. After all, it is all verbal and formal. In reality there is neither guru nor disciple, neither theory nor practice, neither ignorance nor realization, It all depends on what you take yourself to be. Know your self correctly, There is no substitute to self-knowledge.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3997
General topics / Re: carnal desires -- some observations
« on: October 04, 2011, 06:16:02 PM »
Dear Friends,

The mind is like a Magnifying Glass. What it does is as follows  ;)



and then...



 :D

Salutations to Bhagavan

3998
General topics / Re: This is my Maharishee's place
« on: October 04, 2011, 06:13:02 PM »
Dear Krishna,



His Grace.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3999
General topics / Re: Nama Sankeertanam
« on: October 04, 2011, 12:08:13 PM »
Dear Ramakrishnan,

Here is Kali Santaranopanishad from Krishna Yajurveda, confirming the efficacy of Naama Sankeertanam.

दापरान्ते नारदो ब्रह्माणं जगाम कथं भगवन् गाम् पर्यटन् कलिं सन्तरेम् इति । स होवाच ब्रह्म साधु पृष्टोऽस्मि सर्व श्रुति रहस्यं गोप्यं तत् श्रुणु येन कलि संसारं तरिष्यसि । भगवनत् आदिपुरुषस्य नारायणस्य नामोच्चारण मात्रेण निधूतो कलिर्भवति ॥१॥

hari om. dvaparante narada brahmanam jagama katham bhagavan gam paryatana kalim santareyam iti | sa hovaca. brahma sadhu prishto’smi sarva shruti rahasyam gopyam tacchrinu yena kali samsaram tarishyasi | bhagavata adi purushasya narayanasya
namoccharana matrena nirdhta kalir bhavati [1]


At the end of the Dvapara [Yuga] Narada went to Brahma and addressed him thus; "O Lord, how shall I, roaming over the earth be able to overcome the effects of Kali [Yuga]?" Brahma replied thus; " You have asked well. Listen to that which all the Vedas keep secret and hidden, through which one may cross the ocean of mundane existence (samsara) during Kali [Yuga]. It is through the mere recitation of the names of the Primeval Personality of Godhead - Lord NARAYANA, that one transcends the evil effects of the Kali Yuga

नारदः पुनः पप्रच्छ तन्नाम किमिति । स होवाच हिरण्यगर्भः ।

narada punah papraccha tan nama kim iti sa hovaca hiranyagarbah

Narada asked again: "What are those names ?" Brahma (Hiranyagarbha) replied;

हरे राम हरे राम राम हरे हरे ।
हरे कृष्ण हरे कृष्ण कृष्ण कृष्ण हरे हरे ॥


hare krishna hare krishna, krishna krishna hare hare.
hare rama hare rama, rama rama hare hare


These sixteen names destroy the negative effects of Kali. No better means (upaya) than this is to be had in all the Vedas.

इति षोडशकं नाम्नां कलिकल्मष नाशनम् ।
नातः परतरोपाय सर्व वेदेषु दृश्यते ॥२॥


iti shodashakam namnam, kali-kalmasha-nashanam | natah parataropayah, sarva-vedeshu drishyate [2]

These sixteen names destroy the 16 envelopments (kala) in which the jiva is enveloped (avarana). Then like the Sun which shines forth once the clouds are dispersed, Parabrahman alone radiates forth. "

इति षोडश कलावृतस्य जविस्य आवरण विनाशनम् ।
ततः प्रकाशते परं ब्रह्म मेघापये रवि रश्मि मन्डलीवेति ॥२॥


iti shodasha kalasya jivasyavarana vinashanam | tatah prakashate para brahma medhapaye ravi rashmi mandali veti  [2]

(This mantra) destroys the sixteen kalas of the living being, which constitute the veil of ignorance. Then the Supreme Brahman shines forth, just as the solar disc shines forth brilliantly when the clouds vanish.

पुनर्नारदः पप्रच्छ भगवन्कोऽस्य विधिरिति । तं होवाच नास्य विधिरिति । सर्वदा शुचिरशुचिर्वा पठन् ब्रह्मणः सलोकतां समीपतां सरूपतां सायुज्यमेति । यदास्य षोडशकस्य सार्ध त्रिकोटिर्जपति तदा ब्रह्महत्यां तरति । तरति वीरहतयाम् । स्वर्णस्तेयात् पातु भवति । वृषलीगमनात् पूतो भवति । सर्व धर्म परित्याग पापात् सद्यः शुचितामाप्नुयात् । सद्यो मुच्यते सद्यो मुच्यते इत्युपनिषत् ॥३॥

punar narada prapaccha bhagavan kasya vidhi-riti | tam hovaca nasya vidhi-riti | sarvada shuci-ashucira va pathan | brahmanam salokya samipya sarupatam sayujyatam eti | yadasya shodashikasya sardha trikotir japati | tada brahma hatyam tarati vira hatyam | svarna steyat puto bhavati. pitrideva manushyanam apakarat puto bhavati | sarva dharma parityaaga paapaat sadya shuchitaamaapnuyaat | sadyo muchyate sadyo muchyate ityupanishat [3]

Again Narada asked; "O Lord what are the regulations (vidhi) to be observed?" Brahma replied: "There are no regulations. Whoever in a pure or impure state chants these names always, attains the same world (salokya), proximity to (samipya), the same form as (sarupya) or absorption into Brahman (sayujya). Whoever chants this mantra of sixteen names 35 million times is absolved of the sin of murdering a Brahmin and that of murdering a hero. He is absolved of the sin of the theft of gold. He becomes purified from sexual misconduct. Having abandoned all Dharmas he is absolved from all sins. He becomes immediately liberated. This is the Upanishad.

Salutations to Bhagavan

4000
Dear Prashant,

:)

yes, two brothers (Ganesha & Subramaniya)  are seated and the darshan in a lamp light really feels very divine

Salutations to Bhagavan

4001
General topics / Re: carnal desires -- some observations
« on: October 04, 2011, 12:51:53 AM »
Friends,

On further contemplation, it just struck me that, Let Lust be what ever it constitutes. Who really has Lust? Is it for me or this body?

Bhagavan says we are not body; then whose problem is this Lust and sex?

When Bhagavan says we are not body; WE ARE NOT period! it doesn't matter if we are not able to realise it YET, but we can't ignore such a JNANI's words. Who are we to question Bhagavan? If HE SAYS SO, SURELY WE ARE NOT THE BODY. Therefore, this being the case, if we try to work towards working out the Lust problem, then we are doing so with the identification with the body and ignoring the words of A GREAT JNANI!

I am further convinced with my conviction that it is really not necessary to bother much about these issues of sex, lust and other similar issues because, ONCE ONE HAS RECOGNISED IT, it shall go away on its own accord, it will drop off as a ripe fruit on its own accord what matters to us?

WE CANT/SHOULD NOT FORCE ONTO OURSELVES CELIBACY whether one marries or not! Basically, its all got to do with doership. Why take the doership? Its his look out!

Its got all to do with FIRMNESS and FAITH IN BHAGAVANS WORDS!

There is nothing to work out on these aspects. What has Bhagavan asked us to do? to look within or to work out our sexual arousal problems?

HE, WHO IS THE GREATEST JNANI AMONG ALL YUGAS has given us only one job to do, to look within and abide as Self, Enquire into the 'I' till it merges as Self.

Our GURU RAMANA has not asked us to worry about anything else!!!!!!!!!! Once we have given it to HIM, our body is not ours, its HIS, its nature, its prakruti, its like those plants and trees germinating! this Body is like one of those plants and trees. Whether that body sleeps with somebody or over sexed, Why we should be bothered about what happens to the body?

DONT BOTHER, YOU REMAIN AS YOUR SELF, CEASE FROM IDENTIFYING WITH THE BODY! the Body issues are the issues of the body, not ours! Its not our business but for the one whom it belongs! We should not harm the body with our super impositions (doerships)!

There is nothing called LUST AFTER THE BIRTH OF DISCERNMENT, this is RECOGNITION,

We are fighting with our mind only, not with the body, its the mind that has become corrupt! BUT BHAGAVAN SAYS WE ARE NOT MIND TOO so MIND's problem too is not mine!  :)

When ever we are carried away by such guilt trips we ought to take the LAMP OF DISCERNMENT AND RECOGNISE AND BE AT PEACE WITH EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS. ABSOLUTELY NON-JUDGEMENTAL.

ITS ALL BEAUTIFUL AND PERFECT AS IT IS. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN THE NATURE/PRAKRUTI/CREATION OF BHAGAVAN. IT IS ALL IN MIND! DON'T EVEN GIVE A SEAT TO THIS MIND TO RULE YOU. DONT LET MIND RULE YOU, MIND IS INERT! RECOGNISE THIS, DISCERN THIS and just be. THE BODY KNOWS PERFECTLY WHAT IT SHOULD DO, LETS NOT INFLUENCE/FORCE IT WITH OUR IDEAS OF MODELS. LETS BE IN OUR HOME, WHO WE REALLY ARE, NOT SOMEBODY'S HOME (OUR BODY) and cease from identifying with this inert body!

I feel I am convinced with this for myself!

Salutations to Bhagavan

4002
General topics / Re: carnal desires -- some observations
« on: October 03, 2011, 11:05:11 PM »
Friends, I want to ask, what exactly constitutes Lust?

Salutations to Bhagavan

4003
General topics / Re: carnal desires -- some observations
« on: October 03, 2011, 07:40:26 PM »
Dear ramana1359

Basically, there is difference between Love and Bliss. Love is Debt (Runa) we have due to our Prarabdha karma. We either owe it to somebody or 'need' to get from somebody. To love is to "going outward", it actually is mind going outwards, as in, we are looking for fulfillment through another and  Whereas Bliss is totally different, its purely from within ourselves alone! Here there is no requirement for an another to get some fulfillment. We are ourselves 'Purnam', 'Whole' which is the concept of ArdhaNaareeshwara (Half Man Hald Woman) It is because there is a feeling of difference, we look forward for that another, hoping it will give us that fulfillment, where as we ourselves are whole, This is "Jnana"



This is the subtle difference. And the goal is eventually to attain that fulfillment which is the attainment of Self. But so long we require to "be loved" and "to love" i.e. Prarabdha so long, it is, thereafter, there is no such pitfalls

In deeper discernment, Who is Wife to whom? and who is husband to whom?

We say,

My Wife,
My Husband,
My friend, etc..
My Kerchief

Note the word 'My' - My this, My that, My, My...

Notice "My" is different, "Wife" is different,
"My" is different, "Husband" is different,
"My" is different, "Kerchief" is different

The Sages say in truth "My" alone is! Who is this "My", Who is this "I"

and Who is the "I" that wants "to love" and "get love"

Once married, one has to fulfill the duties of a Grahastha or the duties of the Householder. This is where the "Kaivalyam" or "transformation" will take place!

Love is Different from Bliss.

Salutations to Bhagavan

4004
Yes, and Sat Chit Ananda is just a term we devotees use to describe the Realised and the Realised Soul uses the same term just for us devotees.

For the Realised, what do these words, Sat Chit Ananda mean?

Until we are in union, we are bound to use such descriptions, terms because we still are not it! We're still not up to "Being" it. We are seeing it, yet to "BE"



Salutations to Bhagavan

4005
General topics / Re: Nama Sankeertanam
« on: October 03, 2011, 03:45:20 PM »
Dear Ramakrishnan,

While I am not sure about Bhagavan's opinion on Nama Sankirtanam, It was a regular practice to sing songs every day in front of Bhagavan. The Vedas proclaim,

Aakaashaat Patitamtoyam Saagaram Prati Gachchati,

As all the water fallen from the sky flows to the ocean in the same way, all ways and methods with Dharma as its roots reaches the Self ultimately.



Salutations to Bhagavan

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