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The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Question about Jnanis
« on: October 17, 2011, 10:46:48 AM »
Dear ramana1359,

This question springs from the avidya that a "Jnani" is different from you. What you see is not different from yourself. There are no two things there (yourself and a jnani), it is all part of yourself only, like the curds in milk, like the ghee in milk, like the butter in milk! Because you see through your physical eye, you perceive difference, if you see with the inner eye, you realise that the physical eye is inert, there is some seer within our eyes. there is some seer who sees through our eyes, who hears through our ears, who feels through touch, who smells through nose. That seer within is common, that seer is only one!

Its is the interpretation of the mind that is the culprit, when you see a coconut tree, how did you know it as "cocunut tree", how did you know a "coconut", how did you know a "tree", unless you had previously heard it from somewhere, what is blue colour before you knew what a blue colour is, Who is father, before the mother shows the father to us? who is a mother before she tells us that she is "mamma"

So all that we seem know only seems. It opnly seems, not really is!

There is no "jnani" outside of you. Jnani is just within/without yourself! What you see is only your imagination, it is the creative process of your mind which makes the ideas of a "jnani" with a body, form, mind, and you see all the activities through your own mind only. Suppose you close your eyes, where are these forms, Jnani, activities. Ok, we can say, if I close my eyes, I can still see this as a 'vision' through my mind, its precisely just that, its just like a dream, it really never is! What vision you see when you close your eyes, you see the same when you open your eyes and too! There is no difference.

So long you see through just the mere physical eye, there is mind activity, it appears that a jnani also has a mind and activity. when your mind is merged within the Self, there is no mind, there is no jnani outside of you.

Just imagine now, a jnani is flying up in the air above you and lifting his hands and doing some action and you are seeing all this! continue the process for sometime....

Now Get back, become aware, where is this jnani, whom you just saw a moment back? when you became aware, you realise it was only a thought, thought-vision and when you became aware now, you abided as self. like this, the mind keeps goiing out like the bubbles in boiling water, it goes up, up, up and bursts. Bubble never really is. It appeared due to the Heat, which are nothing but Vasanas. When you become aware, we need not heat anymore. When you don't heat it, under the sway of Vasanas, the mind does not go outwards, it remains as Self!

That a Jnani has a body, is outside of you, is different from you, etc... is a product of your own mind only! Where was the jnani during deep sleep? where was the jnani's body during deep sleep? where were the activities during your deep sleep? What is body, how did you know what a "body" is unless you previously heard it that a "body" is made of skeleton, flesh, blood, muscles, tissues, nerves, and so on. keep asking yourself, how did you get to know these nerves, skeletons, muscles, etc... unless you heard it before. Get back to the source!

Mind does not exist, it only seems to be! That which is not can never be measured, therefore these modern scientific devices are limited to the mind itself.  The outgoing Self is Mind, and its Abidance is just it-Self.

How can something that does not exist be measured? Which is why the sages have called it as Maya.

Scientific studies and devices, etc... are all like studying about the snake perceived by mistake in the Snake Rope phenomenon, which really is not there. What is the use of studying the snake, when it really is just a rope. It waste of money, wast of energy, it avidya, ignorance! Instead, discern and recognise the rope which is the Self. Enquire the I The Jnani is self is the rope Perceiving Jnani as external is as good as the perception of Snake from a rope! 

The questions and answers are all part of the mind only. Really, there are no questions and answers at all. So long the mind asks questions, answers are also there, answers are part of the questions itself. its like two sides of the same coin. Answers are not different from questions. Hence the real answer is the silence of Dakshinamurty, of Bhagavan Ramanar - Silence.

The existence of questions and answers only indicates the outgoing mind. It indicates one under the sway of Vasanas.

Salutations to Bhagavan


Salutations to Bhagavan

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Question about Jnanis
« on: October 15, 2011, 06:56:33 PM »
Dear Sri Ramana1359

That a Jnani functions in the world is a product of our mind :) not the Jnani's! It is we, who think, how come a jnani is able to function in the world without a mind. If you look subtly, it is our mind. There is no "other" other than you. There is no "Jnani" outside of you. Ramana is not outside of you.

Mind is inert, mind never worked or operates even now. There is no mind, and even is there is some mind, it is most definitely not ours Just take for instance our inhalation and exhalation? are we using our mind? Take for instance, while we are walking, are we using our mind to walk? Is the feeling of hunger the mind's? Where is the mind, the mind is in body, we say, whose is the body? can we say body is mine? Where is mind? Where are you, where am I?, Whence am I?

Since we have identification with the mind, we are seeing a jnani also as the same and hence we wonder, how come a jnani is able to function without a mind!

Mind of a Jnani never is, when we say Jnani's mind its like How can we say a "childless mother"?, when we say mind of a jnani its like saying "childless mother" which is ridiculous, if one did not have a child how she became a mother to its child?! Infact Mind never was or is. Mind is Maya. What is mind really? Infact it is wrong to refer a jnani as "Jnani" has Bhagavan as said there is really no "jnani" but only "jnanam"

All these questions arise because of our identification with a Mind phenomenon (identification with dream * ). Enquire who is asking this question, the answer will be "my mind" and then when we ask, "who's mind is this?" and the answer will be "My Mind" and then we have eventually ask, who is this "My? If it is my mind, then who am I?

The "I" is the root of all the questions and answers. Instead of trying to figure out the knowledge of all other question, figure out the father of all questions and answers, the "I". Bhagavan says,

"If we clear one doubt, another arises, and there will be no end of doubts. All doubts will cease only when the doubter and his source have been found. Seek for the source of the doubter, and you find he is really nonexistent"

Always stick to the source. Infact there is no use in knowing how a jnani is able to function with or without a mind! What matter it is to us, how a jnani function? What is Functioning really? Functioning itself is illusion? Who functions? what Functions really? What is the use if the answers is a "Yes" or even a "No" How much difference is that going to be for us? Our state is not going to change because of knowing this!

That which wants to know the answer is as good as the one asking questions in dream, it makes no use really in true waking! * Suppose you get Self Realisation in your dream, suppose, some great jnani blesses you in your dream and you ask some questions and the jnani also answers all the questions and in the end you attain Self Realisation, when you wake up, you realise it all as a dream. You see that nothing really has changed, You are exactly the same as you were.

Dreaming in sleep is for short duration, while in waking dream is for longer time. All happens only in dream. Just realise that all questions and answers are all happening in dream. The knowing really is of insignificance, for really there is no "Knower" (Jnani) says Bhagavan there is only "Knowledge" (Jnanam). Therefore "Knower" is illusion, "Knower" is mind, enquire who is the "knower" Who am I?

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Sri Ramanaduliji & Sri Anilkumarsinha ji,

This is a very good point, that, "knowing does not help to conquer our mind and in that way, we again reach the point where we started our journey"

Perhaps, what we could try is, like they say, make or fake portray the smile on your face always; In the same spirit, we have to make or fake, just believe we are that brahman, we are realised, we are that Self what Bhagavan said. It does not really matter if we have not yet. But with the attitude of विणम्र​ता​ Vinamra(modest, humble) with submissive attitude towards God and not bringing the Advaita with others, but, just believing that we are realised, I am Brahman now. This moment, I am That.

Lets Fake it, even if we know very well that we are not really that yet! eventually we become really that like the Bhramara-Kita-Nyaya:

The Bhramara or the wasp is said to sting the insects or the Kitas which it brings to its hive and through stinging them and poisoning them makes them feel its presence alone everywhere, at all times. The insects, so to say, meditate on the presence of the wasp, at all times, and in turn become wasps themselves thereby. This is to show that by meditating on the formula ‘Aham Brahma Asmi’ or ‘I am Brahman’ the Jiva becomes Brahman itself in the end.

Make or Fake, Be the Brahman. With विणम्र​ता Vinamrata (modest, humble) with submissive attitude towards God and not bringing the Advaita with others

यद्भावं तद्भवति - Yadbhaavam Tadbhavati

What you consider yourself to be that you are or that you become

ब्रह्मविद् ब्रह्मैव भवति - Brahmavid Brahmaiva Bhavati

Knower of Brahman is Brahman himself or becomes Brahman himself

Know Brahman and you become Brahman itself!

Knowing Brahman is Being Brahman.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Advaita & Visishtadvaita
« on: October 14, 2011, 05:28:48 PM »

I am opening this topic in a good sense (Shankara & Ramanuja). Not to open a subject of whether this is right or that is wrong. It is more to do with OUR OWN EXPERIENCES. I have observed at least most of us in this forum (just my own personal observation) including my self, that we all actually side towards the philosophy of Ramanujacharya even though we talk about Advaita and much less towards Advaita at experiential levels! We are content or mostly, we don't know more than what Ramanujacharya has observed. We stand where Ramanuja come to conclusion. and we are caught in a pathless ground, waiting for eternity. There is a need for understanding here.

Our experiences of reality, at least by our views posted so far here (own views, not what Bhagavan has said or not what Shankara has said) By our own experiential knowledge, it can be inferred that we all stand in Sri Ramanujacharya's philosophy. This, on the other hand, doesn't give a peace of mind yet (atleast to myself) as extensively reading Advaita literature of Shankara and others.

There is a fine line in what Shankara has said and Ramanar has said. But They have been only one of their kinds. What Bhagavan & Shankara perhaps landed to is something which is description less or indescribable!

Please check this below  -

Ramanuja's philosophy is referred to as Vishishtadvaita because it combines Advaita (oneness of God) with Vishesha (attributes).

Differences with Shankara

Adi Shankara had argued that all qualities or manifestations that can be perceived are unreal and temporary. Ramanuja believed them to be real and permanent and under the control of the Brahman. God can be one despite the existence of attributes, because they cannot exist alone; they are not independent entities. They are Prakaras or the modes, Sesha or the accessories, and Niyama or the controlled aspects, of the one Brahman.

In Ramanuja’s system of philosophy, the Lord (Narayana) has two inseparable Prakaras or modes, namely, the world and the souls. These are related to Him as the body is related to the soul. They have no existence apart from Him. They inhere in Him as attributes in a substance. Matter and souls constitute the body of the Lord. The Lord is their indweller. He is the controlling Reality. Matter and souls are the subordinate elements. They are termed Viseshanas, attributes. God is the Viseshya or that which is qualified.

Ramanuja opines, wrong is the position of the Advaitins that understanding the Upanishads without knowing and practicing dharma can result in Brahman knowledge. The knowledge of Brahman that ends spiritual ignorance is meditational, not testimonial or verbal.
In contrast to Shankara, Ramanuja holds that there is no knowledge source in support of the claim that there is a distinctionless (homogeneous) Brahman. All knowledge sources reveal objects as distinct from other objects. All experience reveals an object known in some way or other beyond mere existence. Testimony depends on the operation of distinct sentence parts (words with distinct meanings). Thus the claim that testimony makes known that reality is distinctionless is contradicted by the very nature of testimony as a knowledge means. Even the simplest perceptual cognition reveals something (Bessie) as qualified by something else (a broken hoof, “Bessie has a broken hoof,” as known perceptually). Inference depends on perception and makes the same distinct things known as does perception.

He also holds that the Advaitin argument about prior absences and no prior absence of consciousness is wrong. Similarly the Advaitin understanding of a-vidya (not-Knowledge), which is the absence of spiritual knowledge, is incorrect. “If the distinction between spiritual knowledge and spiritual ignorance is unreal, then spiritual ignorance and the self are one.”

The Seven objections to Shankara's Advaita

Ramanuja picks out what he sees as seven fundamental flaws in the Advaita philosophy to revise them. He argues:

I. The nature of Avidya. Avidya must be either real or unreal; there is no other possibility. But neither of these is possible. If Avidya is real, non-dualism collapses into dualism. If it is unreal, we are driven to self-contradiction or infinite regress.

II. The incomprehensibility of Avidya. Advaitins claim that Avidya is neither real nor unreal but incomprehensible, {anirvachaniya.} All cognition is either of the real or the unreal: the Advaitin claim flies in the face of experience, and accepting it would call into question all cognition and render it unsafe.

III. The grounds of knowledge of Avidya. No pramana can establish Avidya in the sense the Advaitin requires. Advaita philosophy presents Avidya not as a mere lack of knowledge, as something purely negative, but as an obscuring layer which covers Brahman and is removed by true Brahma-vidya. Avidya is positive nescience not mere ignorance. Ramanuja argues that positive nescience is established neither by perception, nor by inference, nor by scriptural testimony. On the contrary, Ramanuja argues, all cognition is of the real.

IV. The locus of Avidya. Where is the Avidya that gives rise to the (false) impression of the reality of the perceived world? There are two possibilities; it could be Brahman's Avidya or the individual soul's {jiva.} Neither is possible. Brahman is knowledge; Avidya cannot co-exist as an attribute with a nature utterly incompatible with it. Nor can the individual soul be the locus of Avidya: the existence of the individual soul is due to Avidya; this would lead to a vicious circle.

V. Avidya's obscuration of the nature of Brahman. Sankara would have us believe that the true nature of Brahman is somehow covered-over or obscured by Avidya. Ramanuja regards this as an absurdity: given that Advaita claims that Brahman is pure self-luminous consciousness, obscuration must mean either preventing the origination of this (impossible since Brahman is eternal) or the destruction of it - equally absurd.

VI. The removal of Avidya by Brahma-vidya. Advaita claims that Avidya has no beginning, but it is terminated and removed by Brahma-vidya, the intuition of the reality of Brahman as pure, undifferentiated consciousness. But Ramanuja denies the existence of undifferentiated {nirguna} Brahman, arguing that whatever exists has attributes: Brahman has infinite auspicious attributes. Liberation is a matter of Divine Grace: no amount of learning or wisdom will deliver us.

VII. The removal of Avidya. For the Advaitin, the bondage in which we dwell before the attainment of Moksa is caused by Maya and Avidya; knowledge of reality (Brahma-vidya) releases us. Ramanuja, however, asserts that bondage is real. No kind of knowledge can remove what is real. On the contrary, knowledge discloses the real; it does not destroy it. And what exactly is the saving knowledge that delivers us from bondage to Maya? If it is real then non-duality collapses into duality; if it is unreal, then we face an utter absurdity.
Bhagavad Ramanuja taught his followers to highly respect all Sri Vaishnavas irrespective of caste.

Cited from Sri Ramanuja, His Life, Religion, and Philosophy, published by Sri Ramakrishna Math, Chennai, India.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / ? Realized State ?
« on: October 14, 2011, 04:28:02 PM »
Suddenly, I began to wonder about the "state" of a jnani.

While I am aware that it is no use knowing the "State" of a jnani, for whatever we know is a product of the mind only. While Bhagavan has also said that only a Jnani can know a Jnani's state. Well it is really needless really and would end up being a futile effort in the end. Still, it was a surprise really, a wonderment really, when this thought occurred about the "Realized State"

Friends, I just want your thoughts on this. What you think is the "Realized State" ?

I request you to be brief, as in it would be good, if you can write in small sentences, yes, am being very unreasonable :) though, please feel free to write a brief explanation if you want to.

For example:

"The realized state is a state where there are no thoughts, but only awareness"

Thank you

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Sri Anilkumarsinha ji,

I appreciate your focus. It is an inspiration. Its not easy! Although in the scheme of self enquiry, there is nothing to get appreciation and to appreciate!

There is nothing more to add here

with prayers :)

Salutations to Bhagavan

General Discussion / Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« on: October 14, 2011, 10:35:18 AM »
Dear Sri Prashanth,

that was not a comparison between Chetan Bhagath or Narayana Murthy. This was not a post to weigh what has anybody contributed and who had contributed better to the nation. It cannot be denied, and it is a fact that the kind of work pressure, these companies thrust on their employees by providing state of the art environment as an attractive substitute for the time and energies of its employees and people get swayed by these. It has become a matter of pride for one who works in some branded organisation! Unfortunately, it has also become a measure the worth of bridegroom and brides at the time of marriages. All other qualities are over looked!

It is not a hidden fact that divorce among the youth working in such industries is very high

They encourage work from home and snatch the little time that people get to spend with their families

Blackberry technology is another culprit with calls and emails having to attend all the time

On public holidays when the company gives off, people have only energies for just recuperation and sleep.

The family nearness is snatched or rather employees get swayed, in the name of career building and promotions and attractive incentives and recognition.

In the name of overseas opportunities, so many children have left their parents all alone and got settled abroad.

There are so many who have forgotten their roots and culture and traditions and when they come to India they come with some cynicism.

Bad Marriages and no understanding between couples because they dont get to spend enough time together.

Suicides. well the reasons are endless.

The problem is Economics does not have Value Economics, Economics is all about money, and billions.

Money and job alone are not the primary determinants of an achiever. How much money has one contributed to the nation.

For example.

Narayanan Krishnan - (please watch this video) contributes much more than all the well known famous people.

This man goes unknown. There are MANY MANY NARAYANAN KRISHNAN. Who get highlighted is only what media decides or who make billion $$$ company!

Prashanth, you are 100% right when you said
My conclusion as bhagavan said that advaita and knowing that we are indeed self should be only in bhavana.
we need to acknowledge that in order to achieve this goal we need to  make use of our body.

We have responsibility to recognise and support such hidden Narayanan Krishnan's who are out of the range of our minds, we have responsibility towards Mother earth, we need to protect environment, we need to protect other animals, not only humans, we need to give space for other animals also, we need to save water, we need to lessen pollution.

We need to use right discernment to channelize energies towards the right source.

Not everybody falls in these categories, there are pepple who work in these industries and are still able to maintain sanity. They reject promotions and additional responsibilities after having recognized the reality and truth.

Again this is all due to avidya. People don't know, when they get the discernment, the flower blooms.

Salutations to Bhagavan


In the same vein, I am of the view, that Sadhana is in our control because sadhana is done inward and all pictures of the universe
are outside.

Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

While you have presented your views from a different dimension, on looking ever deeper, you would appreciate, discerning even further, that, Universe is neither inside nor outside, or even within; it is not there really, it is maya! Adi Shankara said

Brahma Satyam Jaganmitya”, i.e. Brahmam is the Real existence and Jagat (world) is unreal.

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Sri Anand Sundaram,

Yes you are absolutely 100% Correct! It is true that
the universe is a picture(in line with a pre written script) on consciousness.If yes, then in a certain sense can we not say that we with our Sadhana also form of the picture?

But Bhagavan and all the scriptures also say that we are not our body, we are the eternal Self,

When we identify with the body then our sadhana also is part of the same picture.

When we realise the self, Bhagavan has also said, we are substratum of everything really, and, everything else is just mere illusion, including our Sadhana, for really we do Sadhana only out of ignorance, avidya!


Salutations to Bhagavan

General Discussion / Re: the shopkeeper analogy
« on: October 13, 2011, 06:27:46 PM »

Recently Chetan Bhagat commented on Sri NR Narayana Murty for his comments on IIT "It is ironic when someone who runs a body-shopping company and calls it hi-tech,...."

Well this is 100% correct, while I do respect Sri NR Narayanamurty also, but i sided towards the fact of body shopping by MNC corporates and they squeeze the youth juice out of our men and make them insensitive, workaholics, stressed, (we can add on) . Would have been interesting to see what Swamy Vivekananda would have done today!


I am afraid if I sound biased, but I truly side towards Swadeshi model and a NO NO to Globalization! I believe in Globalization harmony model. not Globalization for a business model!

Source: Wikipedia
Swadeshi believes that, mere rule of law is inadequate to lay the ground for social interactions. A higher order of life has been in practice in India; all non-official community and social transactions take place on this higher principle of life called dharma, even today. ‘Dharma’ - an ancient Indian concept, which has no English equivalent - means ‘that which sustains’. In its wider sense, it implies the nourishment of all aspects of life - individual social global. Swadharma forms the very core of Swadeshi; Swadeshi is the living tradition of India. Though buried under the veneer of the superficial West-centric Indian exterior it is still the largest sustaining force and the core of Indian society, economy and polity.
The essential ingredients of the Swadeshi thought may be summarised as follows:
Swadeshi means that which is natural and native to a country and society, but allows scope for assimilation of wholesome and beneficial elements from the outside. This applies to economics as well as politics; culture as well as technology.
It is the principle of preferring the neighborhood to the remote.
It commands need-based life, and rules out unlimited consumption as an end.
It renews and relies on family, community and society as socioeconomic delivery systems. It does not substitute these traditional institutions by the State and the Market.
It is not autarky; but a global alternative, which accepts only need-based trans nationalism.
Swadeshi restores economics to its earlier definition which even now the dictionary meaning of economy indicates, namely, practical human needs, frugality, savings, thrift etc. and seeks to remove the latter-day distortion of defining economics as multiplication of wants and efforts to satisfy them, powered by greed.
Stated in simple terms, Swadeshi rejects materialistic and imperialistic homogenization and aimless trans nationalism of the Western assumption. Swadeshi is a multidimensional thought, embracing civilisational, political and economic aspects of human life and presenting an integrated vision of life in harmony with nature.

with regards to Category 1 Category 2 -

"The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their prarabdhakarma. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try as you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to prevent it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent"

Again, I have the same song to play, please excuse friends :D Categorization is only the play of the mind. We are neither householders nor non-householders, neither Category 1 nor Category 2 or even the third  ;)

These are all absolutely the concepts of mind - these 2 categories and its respective notions! A devotee who has absolutely nothing else to do but Sadhana and another devotee who has got duties to do and lesser time to do sadhana is all a mere illusion! Mind itself is said to not exist, these are like the horns of a hare!

Mana eva Manushyaanaam kaaranam Bandha Mokshah - mind alone is the cause for bondage as well as liberation

"Sadhana" has been conceptualized here (by the outgoing mind)

Why create barriers among ourselves? Why distinguish as Category 1 Category 2 and create difference perceptions between people, of higher and lower, better and lacking? and why make newer concepts and newer karmas in trying to free ourselves from some non existing web, like trying to save ourselves from the wrath of heavy rain in our dream? We get entangled in this illusion of concepts and forget the root itself! We recognise that, Concepts are addictive, like a drug!

Directly get in to the root, stay stuck with "I". Only the "I" alone, which alone is real. Lets believe only in this, for it has been said by our Sages, lets believe them, follow them, even blindly, for if one follows blindly the truth, it shall take us all by itself to immortality! As children we just blindly follow our mother, whereever she went, blindly, not even knowing where she was taking us! for we trust the mother and it never forsakes us. In the same spirit, lets blindly follow Bhagavan, whether it makes any sense to us or not!

Always talk, breathe, eat live only this "I" and nothing else. Everything else is a concept. We should never get lost in concepts....


Salutations to Bhagavan

« on: October 12, 2011, 06:40:22 PM »
Dear Subramanian Sir,

They all make a great stress buster  :D  (atleast)

I was reminded about this incident from Shirdi Sai Baba -

These was a rich gentleman (unfortunately his name and whereabouts are not mentioned) who was very prosperous in his life. He had amassed a large quantity of wealth, houses, field and lands, and had many servants and dependents. When Baba's fame reached his ears, he said to a friend of his, that he was not in want of anything, and so he would go to Shirdi and ask Baba to give him Brahma-Jnana which, if he got, would certainly make him more happy. His friend dissuaded him, saying, "it is not easy to know Brahman, and especially so for an avaricious man like you, who is always engrossed in wealth, wife and children. Who will, in your quest of Brahma-Jnana, satisfy you that won't give away even a pice in charity?"

Not minding his friend's advice, the fellow engaged a return-journey tanga and came to Shirdi. He went to the Masjid, saw Sai Baba, fell at His Feet and said, "Baba, hearing that You show the Brahman to all who come over here without any delay, I have come here all the way from my distant place. I am much fatigued by the journey and if I get the Brahman from You, my troubles will be well-paid and rewarded." Baba then replied, "Oh, My dear friend, do not be anxious, I shall immediately show you the Brahman; all My dealings are in cash and never on credit. So many people come to Me, and ask for wealth, health, power, honour, position, cure of diseases and other temporal matters. Rare is the person, who comes here to Me and asks for Brahma-Jnana. There is no dearth of persons asking for wordly things, but as persons interested in spiritual matters are very rare, I think it a lucky and auspicious moment, when persons like you come and press Me for Brahma-Jnana. So I show to you with pleasure, the Brahman with all its accompaniments and complications."

Saying this, Baba started to show him the Brahman. He made him sit there and engaged him in some other talk or affair and thus made him forget his question for the time being. Then He called a boy and told him to go to one Nandu Marwari, and get from him a hand-loan of Rs. five. The boy left and returned immediately, saying that Nandu was absent and his house ws locked. Then Baba asked him to go to Bala grocer and get from him, the said loan. This time also, the boy was unsuccessful. This experiment was repeated again twice or thrice, with the same result.

Sai Baba was, as we know, the living and moving Brahman Incarnate. Then, some one may ask - "Why did He want the paltry sum of five rupees, and why did He try hard to get it on loan? Really He did not want that sum at all. He must have been fully knowing, that Nandu and Bala were absent, and he seems to have adopted this procedure as a test for the seeker of Brahman. That gentleman had a roll or bundle of currency notes in his pocket, and if he was really earnest, he would not have sat quiet and be a mere onlooker, when Baba was frantically trying to get a paltry sum of Rs. five. He knew that Baba would keep His word and repay the debt, and that the sum wanted was insignificant. Still he could not make up his mind and advance the sum. Such a man wanted from Baba the greatest thing in the world, viz., the Brahma-Jnana! Any other man, who really loved Baba, would have at once given Rs. five, instead of being a mere onlooker. It was otherwise with this man. He advanced no money nor did he sit silent, but began to be impatient, as he was in a haste to return and implored Baba saying- "Oh Baba, please show me the Brahman soon." Baba replied - "Oh my dear friend, did you not understand all the procedure that I went through, sitting in this place, for enabling you to see the Brahman? It is, in short this. For seeing Brahman one has to give five things, i.e. surrender five things viz. (1) Five Pranas (vital forces), (2) Five senses (five of action and five of perception), (3) mind, (4) intellect and (5) ego. This path of Brahma-Jnana of self-realization is 'as hard as to tread on the edge of a razor'.
All persons do not see or realize the Brahman in their life-time. Certain qualifications are absolutely necessary. (1) Mumuksha or intense desire to get free. He, who thinks that he is bound and that he should get free from bondage and works earnestly and resolutely to that end;and who does not care for any other thinks, is qualified for the spiritual life. (2) Virakti or a feeling of disgust with the things of this world and the next. Unless a man feels disgusted with the things, emoluments and honors, which his action would bring in this world and the next, he has no right to enter into the spiritual realm. (3) Antarmukhata (introversion). Our senses have been created by God with a tendency to move outward and so, man always looks outside himself and not inside. He who wants self-realization and immortal life, must turn his gaze inwards, and look to his inner Self. (4) Catharsis from (Purging away of) sins. Unless a man has turned away from wickedness, and stopped from doing wrong, and has entirely composed himself and unless his mind is at rest, he cannot gain self-realization, even by means of knowledge. (5) Right Conduct. Unless, a man leads a life of truth, penance and insight, a life of celibacy, he cannot get God-realization. (6) Preferring Shreyas, (the Good) to Preyas (the Pleasant). There are two sorts of things viz., the Good and the Pleasant; the former deals with spiritual affairs, and the latter with mundane matters. Both these approach man for acceptance. He has to think and choose one of them. The wise man prefers the Good to the Pleasant; but the unwise, through greed and attachment, chooses the Pleasant. (7) Control of the mind and the senses. The body is the chariot and the Self is its master; intellect is the charioteer and the mind is the reins; the senses are the horses and sense-objects their paths. He who has no understanding and whose mind is unrestrained, his senses unmanageable like the vicious horses of a charioteer, does not reach his destination (get realization), but goes through the round of births and deaths; but he who has understanding and whose mind is restrained, his senses being under control, like the good horse of a charioteer, reaches that place, i.e., the state of self-realization, when he is not born again. The man, who has understanding as his charioteer (guide) and is able to rein his mind, reaches the end of the journey, which is the supreme abode of the all-pervading, Vishnu (lord). ( 8 ) Purification of the mind. Unless a man discharges satisfactorily and disinterestedly the duties of his station in life, his mind will not be purified and, unless his mind is purified, he cannot get self-realization. It is only in the purified mind that Viveka (discrimination between the Unreal and the Real), and Vairagya (Non-attachment to the unreal) crop up and lead on the self-realization. Unless egoism is dropped, avarice got rid of, and the mind made desireless (pure), self-realization is not possible. The idea that 'I am the body' is a great delusion, and attachment to this idea is the cause of bondage. Leave off this idea and attachment therefore, if you want to get to the Self-realization. (9) The necessity of a Guru. The knowledge of the self is so subtle and mystic, that no one could, by his own individual effort ever hope to attain it. So the help of another person-Teacher, who has himself got self-realization is absolutely necessary. What others cannot give with great labour and pains, can be easily gained with the help of such a Teacher; for he has walked on the path himself and can easily take the disciple, step by step on the ladder of spiritual progress. (10) and lastly the Lord's Grace is the most essential thing. When the Lord is pleased with any body, He gives him Viveka and Vairagya; and takes him safe beyond the ocean of mundane existence, "The Self cannot be gained by the study of Vedas, nor by intellect, nor by much learning. He, whom the Self chooses, by him It is gained. To him the Self reveals Its nature", says the Katha Upanishad.

After the dissertation was over, Baba turned to the gentleman and said - "Well sir, there is in your pocket the Brahma (or Mammon) in the form of fifty-times five(Rs.250/-) rupees; please take that out." The gentleman took out from his pocket the bundle of currency notes, and to his great surprise found, on counting them, that there were 25 notes of 10 rupees each, Seeing this ominiscience of Baba, he was moved and fell at Baba's Feet and craved for His blessings. Then Baba said to him, "Roll up your bundle of Brahma viz. Currency notes. Unless you get rid completely of your avarice or greed, your will not get the real Brahma. How can be, whose mind is engrossed in wealth, progeny and prosperity, expect to know the Brahma, without removing away his attachment for the same? The illusion of attachment or the love for money is a deep eddy (whirlpool) of pain full of crocodiles in the form of conceit and jealousy. He, who is desireless, can alone cross this whirlpool. Greed and Brahma are as poles asunder, they are eternally opposed to each other. Where there is greed, there is no room for thought or meditation of the Brahma. Then how can a greedy man get dispassion and salvation? For a greedy man there is no peace, neither contentment, nor certainty (steadiness). If there be even a little trace of greed in mind, all the Sadhanas (spiritual endeavors) are of no avail. Even the knowledge of a well-read man, who is not free from the desire of the fruit or reward of his actions, and who has got no disgust for the same, is useless and can't help him in getting self-realization. The teachings of a Guru are of no use to a man, who is full of egoism, and who always thinks about the sense-objects. Purification of mind is absolutely necessary; without it, all our spiritual endeavors are nothing, but useless show and pomp. It is, therefore, better for one to take only what he can digest and assimilate. My treasury is full, and I can give anyone, what he wants, but I have to see whether he is qualified to receive what I give. If you listen to Me carefully, you will be certainly benefited. Sitting in this Masjid, I never speak any untruth."

When a guest is invited to a house, all the members of the household and other friends and relations that happen to be present, are entertained, along with the guest. So all those that were present in the Masjid at this time, could partake of the spiritual feast, that was served by Baba for the rich gentleman. After getting Baba's blessings, one and all, including the gentleman left the place quite happy and contented.

Salutations to Bhagavan

« on: October 12, 2011, 05:15:53 PM »
Friends, I couldn't resist from posting this one! ;D have a good one!


Salutations to Bhagavan

« on: October 12, 2011, 05:12:58 PM »


Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Krishnan,

Yes, the purpose is to finally arrive at this discernment, and be able to "Be" the "Knowing/Discernment" -

Both are false.   The dream and projection of mind is equally false as the other side of arguing about these things.

But the Discerner is never False, He is "Satyam", He is the "Hrudayam", He is "Ulladu"

The light from which the Discernment happens is alone the Truth. The Discerner is the screen on which all the world appears, where all the discernment happens, the Discerner, the screen remains unchanged all through. It is beyond all "Dvandas" dualities.

Bhagavan sings in Arunachala Akshara Mana Malai -

பொக்கும் வரவுமில் பொதுவெளி யினிலருட்
பொராட் டங்காட் டருணாசலா (74)

74.   In the wide open space of pure being, where there is
no going and no coming, reveal to me the joy of wrestling
with your Grace, O Arunachala.

That Discerner is that "pokkum varaum illa podu veli" the wide open space of pure being, where there is no going and no coming,

Shankara's Ekashloki -

किं ज्योतिस्तवभानुमानहनि मे रात्रौ प्रदीपादिकं
स्यादेवं रविदीपदर्शनविधौ किं ज्योतिराख्याहि मे ।
चक्षुस्तस्य निमीलनादिसमये किं धीर्धियो दर्शने
किं तत्राहमतो भवान्परमकं ज्योतिस्तदस्मि प्रभो ॥
इति श्रीमत्परमहंसपरिव्राजकाचार्यस्य

Ulladu Naarpadu Anubandham (7)

Master : ‘By what light do you see?’
Disciple : ‘The sun by day, the lamp by night.’
M : ‘By what light do you see these lights?’
D : ‘The eye.’
M : ‘By what light do you see the eye?’
D : ‘The mind.’
M : ‘By what light do you know the mind?’
D : ‘My Self.’
M : ‘You then are the Light of Lights.’
D : ‘Yes, That I am.’

Salutations to Bhagavan

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