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Messages - Nagaraj

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3691
General topics / Prosperity Adversity
« on: December 08, 2011, 06:44:40 PM »
Remember that there is nothing stable in human affairs;
therefore avoid undue elation in prosperity,
or undue depression in adversity.
Salutations to Bhagavan

3692
General topics / Live Streaming
« on: December 08, 2011, 03:08:37 PM »

3693
General topics / Deepam Significance
« on: December 08, 2011, 11:59:00 AM »
प्रबोधमेहि पश्यस्व मात्मानमुदितं सदा ।
निर्विकल्पं चिदाभासं प्रातःपद्यं रविं यथा


Rama, Return to your right understanding, and
behold your soul in its clear light as a manifestation
of the unchangeable luminary of the intellect; in the
same manner as the unfolding lotus beholds the
rising sun.

प्रबुध्यस्व प्रबुध्यस्व पुनःपुनरयं मया ।
प्रबोध्यसे महाबाहो पश्यात्मार्कमनामयम् ॥


I exhort you repeatedly, O Rama! To wake from
your drowsiness, and by remaining ever wakeful to
your spiritual concerns; see the undeclining Sun of
your soul at all times

Moral: Guru Vasishta's concern over Rama (ourselves) shows in itself, in the verse! Today being the Deepam day, Guru urges us to return to our right understanding with absolute clarity which manifests itself as clear Light of understanding. This light is the significance of Arunachala Deepam. Arunachala Deepam is only a symbolic significance of the lighting of the inner light of wisdom. What light we wish to see in the arunachala hill should occur within ourselves as a light of proper discernment.

Adi Shankara in his Eka Shloki reveals this Luminous Light which is the Symbolically represented by the Arunachala Deepam:


Shankara's Ekashloki -

किं ज्योतिस्तवभानुमानहनि मे रात्रौ प्रदीपादिकं
स्यादेवं रविदीपदर्शनविधौ किं ज्योतिराख्याहि मे ।
चक्षुस्तस्य निमीलनादिसमये किं धीर्धियो दर्शने
किं तत्राहमतो भवान्परमकं ज्योतिस्तदस्मि प्रभो ॥
इति श्रीमत्परमहंसपरिव्राजकाचार्यस्य
श्रीगोविन्दभगवत्पूज्यपादशिष्यस्य

Bhagavan Ramana adopted the same in Ulladu Naarpadu Anubandham (7)

Master : ‘By what light do you see?’
Disciple : ‘The sun by day, the lamp by night.’
M : ‘By what light do you see these lights?’
D : ‘The eye.’
M : ‘By what light do you see the eye?’
D : ‘The mind.’
M : ‘By what light do you know the mind?’
D : ‘My Self.’
M : ‘You then are the Light of Lights.’
D : ‘Yes, That I am.’

Arunachala Deepam symbolically represents the "I am" luminous light that which is within and without, that Light of Lights, that Mind of the Mind. In the Kena Upanishad, the Seer sings:
  • Not that which the eye can see, but that whereby the eye can see: know that to be Brahman the eternal, and not what people here adore;
  • Not that which the ear can hear, but that whereby the ear can hear: know that to be Brahman the eternal, and not what people here adore;
  • Not that which speech can illuminate, but that by which speech can be illuminated: know that to be Brahman the eternal, and not what people here adore;
  • Not that which the mind can think, but that whereby the mind can think: know that to be Brahman the eternal, and not what people here adore.
Arunachala Deepam represents the understanding/discernment of the spirit of the Kena Upanishad as above. Realising this inner light is the significance of Arunachala Deepam.

Guru Vasishta urges further with an intense compassion towards Rama (ourselves) to wake up from this drowsiness of ignorance and instead asks us to be very concerned with our spiritual quests and not let of this desire of realising the Self! It is very important for us to remain wakeful to our real purpose of Live, real purpose of Human Birth, that is to realise ourselves as Undecaying Atma.

This moment, let us remember the words of the Sages of the Yore, who are urging us by our own inner light, let us bow to those Sages and Saints who are none but our own Selves, who manifest externally as knowledge, forms, just out of intense love of itself.

Salutations to Ramanachala Deepam

Ramana Hrudayam

3694
General topics / evanescent
« on: December 07, 2011, 10:03:01 AM »
यदिदं दृष्यते किंचिज्जगत्स्थावरजंगमम् ।
सर्वं सर्वप्रकाराढ्यं कल्पान्ते तद्विनश्यति ॥


Rama, whatever appears before you in the form
of this world, and all its fixed(non living) and
movable objects (living), all things, all shapes
of every kind, is altogether evanescent and
vanishes in time into nothing

Moral: Everything that we see is dying every moment, what was some time back is not there today! Scientists say, when a baby is born and when it completes 7 years of age, every cell in the body is completely new and all the old cells have all died into nothing! What body we had when we were 10 years of age or 20 years of age or 30, we do not have now! People change, people die, loved ones change and loved ones also die. Everything is dying, and, there is nothing permanent that we can hold on to, everything is evanescent.

Therefore realising this, we will naturally avoid dependence on the world, be it fixed objects or movable objects or even human beings, for, everything is bound to die! With this discernment, we are able to live peacefully as the false perception such as "My" "Mine" "Yours" etc... are all put to rest as they are all evanescent!

Our best friend in the school, no longer is in our vicinity! What is there is the world to depend on? Hence, Guru Vasishta says, realise the evanescent nature of the world and remain unperturbed as you now know, that all things that are now, may not be there the next moment, do not hold onto anything as they are bound to fool you when they die!

Realise this and remain with equipoise at Loss or Gain, death or birth, good or bad, happiness or sorrow, treachery or faithfulness, insult or praise, love or hate, good or bad, everything that has opposite words (Dvandas) - they are all evanescent.

Let us now, realising this truth remain "Udaaseenam" "indifferent" to every things that we come across, and remain as though like the lotus in water which is untouched by water.


Salutations to Bhagavan

3695
General topics / Re: Jiva
« on: December 07, 2011, 09:24:14 AM »
Dear Subramanian Sir,

Swami Vivekananda referred Sri Gaudapadacharya as the lion among Sages! He was perhaps like Bhagavan just simply seated in the rocks  without even a little of sankalpas! Infact, many scholars have also said that more than half of Sri Shankara's efforts to spread Sanathana Dharma was already done by Sri Gaudapadacharya and Sri Kumarila Bhatta, the former, by just being simple seated in one place and Kumarila Bhatta had taken much interest in spreading the Sanathana Dharma, and Sri Shankara was the one who could touch the length and breadth of the then Bharata country undertook this only on the instruction of his revered Guru Sri Govindapadacharya.

Maandukya Upanishad is the smallest Upanishad containing just 12 verses (i think?) and This Upanishad perhaps is so great because, it is able to bridge the gaps across religions!

It was pleasant to know that Sri Tapasyananada Himself blessed you with this great work!

In this Kali Yuga, according to (advaita sampradaaya), the Guru lineage begins with Sri Gaudapadacharya.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3697
Thank you Ramana, I was asking as I wanted to get this idea to one of my friends who is a christian. There is huge difference in just knowing that God is doing his work and discerning that God is the real doer, and this truth about "non doership"

Proper discernment is very much necessary for every persons of all religions to be able to 'see' the 'truth' without borrowed ideas out of just hearsay from bland sermons.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3698
General topics / Earning Money
« on: December 05, 2011, 11:04:45 AM »


क्रमागतेष्वखिन्नोऽर्थं बकवच्चिन्तयार्जय ।
अर्थोपार्जनकार्येषु वासनाक्रान्तमूढवत् ॥


Earn money by honest means and with prudence like
that of a crane (bird known for its excellent judgement),
in what ever chance presents itself before you, and do
not run in pursuit of gain, like the ignorant
Moral: We should practice utmost integrity in our earnings and money dealings. We should earn money by rightful means and not indulge in any sort of even minor cheating (our conscience knows) paying proper taxes and not even think of avoiding taxes by unlawful means. These days, it is a practice by many people to submit false medical bills to claim the compensation from the company, it is all wrong and unlawful and we should be very prudent in our money dealings.

Guru Vasishta compares to that of the bird Crane, which is said to be endowed with excellent judgement. Giving no place for any confusion, stay focused in Dharmic way of life. Don't even push or desire to do this or that to earn an extra penny (do not exert for more gain) Do the best with what presents itself to us and we should not do something, exert ourselves to make opportunities present itself before us! Be content with what we already have and happy with what God provides us. Lets practice highest integrity and morality in our money dealings, income as well as outcome. Not going behind money, rather accepting with graciousness what money presents itself before us. Lets root out the notions such as "Mo money" "Your money" After all, everything belongs to the Mother Nature 'Prakruti' but to this day, the Mother nature has never claimed anything as its won. It has remained silent when people planted nuclear bombs and when some planted trees! This is wisdom. Lets remember Bhagavan, who used to pick up even single morsal of rice that was fallen in the ashram and restored the rice back to kitchen


Salutations to Bhagavan

3699
Dear Ramana,

Can you please let me know if there are any quote about "Non Doership" in Bible? The parallels for "I am not the Doer, But Thou Art!"

The abandonment of "Not me, my, I etc... but only Thou" etc,

Thanks in advance

Salutations to Bhagavan

3700
General topics / Gems from Vaasishtam
« on: December 05, 2011, 10:09:02 AM »
ययैव वेत्सि ततया युक्त्या पुरुषयत्नतः ।
वासनाकुंरनिर्मूलमेतदेव परं शिवं ॥


Vasishta: Rama, in what ever manner you think it is
possible to rid of your tendencies (Vasanas, bad desires)
whether by Yoga or by means of your manly exertions,
you must root every desire from your heart, in order to
secure your best welfare (Self)

पौरुषेण प्रयत्नेन यथा जानासि वा तथा ।
निवारयाहंभावांशमेषोऽसौ वासनाक्षयः ॥


Vasishta: Rama, endeavour to the utmost of your manly
power, to suppress some portion of your egoism,
in order to prevent the rise of selfish passions,
and desires within your health.

Moral: We have the power within ourselves to
root out the evils that are within either by our own will
(purushkara, or with the aids of Yoga, Pranayama, dhyaana, etc...)

Exert our free will in choosing the Right over the Wrong! At all
instances, Choose the Desire of Self over every other thing!

Salutations to Bhagavan

3701
Questioner: In some places it is stated that human effort is the source of all strength and that it can even transcend Karma. In others it is said that it is all divine grace. It is not clear which of them is correct.
Sri Ramana Maharshi: Yes, some schools of philosophy say that there is no God other than Karma of the previous birth, that is Karma done in the present birth in accordance with the scriptures is known as Purushkara (human effort), that the previous and present Karmas meet for a head-on fight like rams and that the one that is weaker gets eliminated. That is why these people say that one should strengthen Purushkara. If you ask such people what the origin of Karma is, they say that such a question is not to be raised as it is like the eternal question, ‘Which is earlier, the seed or the tree?’


Debates such as this are mere arguments, which can never arrive at the final truth. That is why I say first find out who you are. If one asks, ‘Who am I? How did I get this Dosha (fault) of life?’, the ‘I’ will subside and one will realise the Self. If one does this properly the idea of Dosha will be eliminated and peace will be obtained. Why even obtained? The Self remains as it is.


The essence of Karma is to know the truth of oneself by enquiring ‘Who am I, the doer, who begins to do Karmas?’ Unless the doer of Karmas, the ego, is annihilated through enquiry, the perfect peace of supreme bliss, which is the result of Karma Yoga, cannot be achieved.


Question: Can people wipe out the consequences of their bad actions by doing Mantras or Japa (repeating God’s name) or will they necessarily have to experience them?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: If the feeling ‘I am doing Japa’ is not there, the bad actions committed by a man will not stick to him. If the feeling ‘I am doing the Japa’ is there, the consequences of bad actions will persist.


Question: Does the Punya (merit accumulated from virtuous acts) extinguish Papa (demerit accumulated from sinful acts)?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: So long as the feeling ‘I am doing’ is there, one must experience the result of one’s acts, whether they are good or bad. How is it possible to wipe out one act with another? When the feeling that ‘I am doing’ is lost, nothing affects a man. Unless one realises the Self, the feeling ‘I am doing’ will never vanish. For one who realises the Self where is the need for Japa? Where is the need for Tapas (austerity)? Owing to the force of Prarabdha life goes on, but he who has realised the Self does not wish for anything.

Prarabdha Karma is of three categories, Ichha, Anichha and Parechha (personally desired, without desire and due to others' desire). For the one who has realised the Self, there is no Ichha-Prarabdha but the two others, Anichha and Parechha, remain. Whatever a Jnani (Self-realised) does is for others only. If there are things to be done by him for others, he does them but the results do not affect him. Whatever be the actions that such people do, there is no Punya and no Papa attached to them. But they do only what is proper according to the accepted standard of the world – nothing else.

Those who know that what is to be experienced by them in this life is only what is already destined in their Prarabdha will never feel perturbed about what is to be experienced. Know that all one’s experiences will be thrust upon one whether one wills them or not.



Question: The realised man has no further Karma. He is not bound by his Karma. Why should he still remain within his body?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: Who asks this question? Is it the realised man or the Ajnani (ignorant)? Why should you bother what the Jnani (Self-realised) does or why he does anything? Look after yourself. You are now under the impression you are the body and so you think that the Jnani also has a body. Does the Jnani say he has a body? He may look to you as if he has a body and he may appear to be doing things with the body, as others do, but he himself knows that he is bodiless. The burnt rope still looks like a rope, but it can’t serve as a rope if you try to bind anything with it. A Jnani is like that – he may look like other people, but this is only an outer appearance. So long as one identifies oneself with the body, all this is difficult to understand.


That is why it is sometimes said in reply to such questions, ‘The body of the Jnani will continue till the force of Prarabdha works itself out, and after the Prarabdha is exhausted it will drop off’. An illustration made use of in this connection is that of an arrow already discharged which will continue to advance and strike its target. But the truth is the Jnani has transcended all Karmas, including the Prarabdha Karma, and he is not bound by the body or its Karmas.


Not even an iota of Prarabdha exists for those who uninterruptedly attend to space of consciousness, which always shines as ‘I am’, which is not confined in the vast physical space, and which pervades everywhere without limitations. Such alone is the meaning of the ancient saying, ‘There is no fate for those who reach or experience the heavens’.


Question: If a thing comes to me without any planning or working for it and I enjoy it, will there be no bad consequences from it?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: It is not so. Every act must have its consequences. If anything comes your way by reason of Prarabdha, you can’t help it. If you take what comes, without any special attachment, and without any desire for more of it or for a repetition of it, it will not harm you by leading to further births. On the other hand, if you enjoy it with great attachment and naturally desire for more of it, it is bound to lead to more and more births.


Question: According to the astrological science, predictions are made about coming events taking into account the influence of the stars. Is that true?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: So long as you have the feeling of egotism all that is true. When the egotism is destroyed, even if they appear to see they do not really see.


Destiny is the result of past action. It concerns the body. Let the body act as may suit it. Why are you concerned with it? Why do you pay attention to it? Should anything happen, it happens as the result of one’s past actions, of divine will and of other factors.


Question: The present is said to be due to past Karma. Can we transcend the past Karma by our free will now?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: See what the present is. If you do this you will understand what is affected by or has a past or a future, what is ever-present and always free and what remains unaffected by the past or future or by any past Karma.


Question: Is there such a thing as free will?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: Whose will is it? So long as there is the sense of doership, there is the sense of enjoyment and of individual will. But if this sense is lost through the practice of Vichara (self-enquiry), the divine will will act and guide the course of events. Fate is overcome by Jnana, Self-knowledge, which is beyond will and fate.

Question: I can understand that the outstanding events in a man’s life, such as his country, nationality, family, career or profession, marriage, death, etc., are all predestined by his Karma, but can it be that all the details of his life, down to the minutest, have already been determined? Now, for instance, I put this fan that is in my hand down on the floor here. Can it be that it was already decided that on such and such a day, at such and such an hour, I should move the fan like this and put it down here?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: Certainly. Whatever this body is to do and whatever experiences it is to pass through was already decided when it came into existence.


Question: What becomes then of man’s freedom and responsibility for his actions?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: The only freedom man has is to strive for and acquire the Jnana (knowledge) which will enable him not to identify himself with the body. The body will go through the actions rendered inevitable by Prarabdha and a man is free either to identify himself with the body and be attached to the fruits of its actions or to be detached from it and be a mere witness of its activities.


Question: So free will is a myth?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: Free will holds the field in association with individuality. As long as individuality lasts there is free will. All the scriptures are based on this fact and they advise directing the free will in the right channel.

Find out to whom free will or destiny matters. Find out where they come from, and abide in their source. If you do this, both of them are transcended. That is the only purpose of discussing these questions. To whom do these questions arise? Find out and be at peace.


Question: If what is destined to happen will happen, is there any use in prayer or effort or should we just remain idle?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: There are only two ways to conquer destiny or be independent of it. One is to enquire for whom is this destiny and discover that only the ego is bound by destiny and not the Self, and that the ego is non-existent. The other way is to kill the ego by completely surrendering to the Lord, by realising one’s helplessness and saying all the time, ‘Not I but Thou, O Lord’, giving up all sense of "I" and ‘mine’ and leaving it to the Lord to do what He likes with you. Surrender can never be regarded as complete so long as the devotee wants this or that from the Lord. True surrender is love of God for the sake of love and nothing else, not even for the sake of liberation. In other words, complete effacement of the ego is necessary to conquer destiny, whether you achieve this effacement through self-enquiry or through Bhakti Marga (path of devotion).

Salutations to Bhagavan

3702
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Bhagavan on Karma
« on: December 04, 2011, 03:49:19 PM »
Question: Is it posssible to overcome, even while the body exists, the Prarabdha Karma which is said to last till the end of the body?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: Yes. If the agent, upon whom the Karma depends, namely the ego, which has come into existence between the body and the Self, merges in its source and loses its form, how can the Karma, which depends upon it, survive? When there is no ‘I’ there is no Karma.

Question: It is said that Prarabdha Karma is only a small fraction of the Karma accumulated from previous lives. Is this true?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: A man might have performed many Karmas in his previous births. A few of these alone will be chosen for this birth and he will have to enjoy their fruits in this birth. It is something like a slide show where the projectionist picks a few slides to be exhibited at a performance; the remaining slides being reserved for another performance. All this Karma can be destroyed by acquiring knowledge of the Self. The different Karmas are the slides, Karmas being the result of past experiences, and the mind is the projector. The projector must be destroyed so that there will be no further reflection and no further births and no deaths.

Question: Who is the projectionist? What is the mechanism, which selects a small portion of the Sanchita Karma and then decides that it shall be experienced as Prarabdha Karma?
Sri Ramana Mahrshi: Individuals have to suffer their Karmas but Iswara manages to make the best of their Karmas for his purpose. God manipulates the fruits of Karma but he does not add or take away from it. The subconscious of man is a warehouse of good and bad Karma. Iswara chooses from this warehouse what he sees will best suit the spiritual evolution at the time of each man, whether pleasant or painful. Thus there is nothing arbitrary.

Question: In ‘Upadesa Saram', you say that Karma bears fruit by the ordinance of God (Karta). Does this mean that we reap the consequences of Karma solely because God wills it?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: In this verse Karta (God) means Iswara. He is the one who distributes the fruits of actions to each person according to his Karma. That means that he is the manifest Brahman. The real Brahman is unmanifest and without motion. It is only the manifest Brahman that is named as Iswara. He gives the fruit to each person according to his actions (Karma). That means that Iswara is only an agent and that he gives wages according to the labour done. That is all. Without this Sakti (power) of Iswara, this Karma would not take place. That is why Karma is said to be on its own, inert.

Questioner: The present experiences are the result of past Karma. If we know the mistakes committed before, we can rectify them.
Sri Ramana Maharshi: If one mistake is rectified there yet remains the whole Sanchita Karma from former births which is going to give you innumerable births. So that is not the procedure. The more you prune a plant, the more vigorously it grows. The more you rectify your Karma, the more it accumulates. Find the root of Karma and cut it off.

Question: Does the Karma theory mean that the world is the result of action and reaction? If so, action and reaction of what?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: Until realisation there will be Karma, that is action and reaction. After realisation there will be no Karma and no world.

Question: If I am not the body why am I responsible for the consequences of my good and bad actions?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: If you are not the body and do not have the idea ‘I am the doer’, the consequences of your good or bad actions will not affect you. Why do you say about the actions the body performs ‘I do this’ or ‘I did that’? As long as you identify yourself with the body like that you are affected by the consequences of the actions, that is to say, while you identify with the body you accumulate good and bad Karma.

Questioner: But since I am not the body I am not really responsible for the consequences of good or bad actions.
Sri Ramana Maharshi: If you are not, why do you bother about the question?

Salutations to Bhagavan

3703
I feel, we need to be clear what we really mean when we refer "Karma" Does it mean "endurance" or "bodily acts" of Jnani.

If it is a mater of endurance, a Jnani does not endure. He is devoid of Pain or Pleasure, They are all just the same experiences of Self alone. They don't have any experience other than Self. Even to say "Experience" is really not correct, as there is no experience also really! If it is a question of Bodily acts, then too, a jnani is not bound by body, it has been seen in every saints life that the body is just an inert 'thing' which is at complete control of the Jnani, i.e. the jnani is not bound by the body like us! If we take Sadasiva Brahmendra, when his hands were cut off, he was not even aware, when somebody saw that and pointed this to Sadasiva Brahmendra, he simply went back and fixed his hands back. Even Shirdi Sai Baba is said to have practiced Khanda Yoga, where in, he removed his limbs, and placed them separately and fixed them back!

Moreover, Prarabhda means, happenings bound by past karma, but a Jnani is not bound by any karma, basically, We could perhaps closely only say that His Will itself is His Karma! He uses the Body so long He Wills. Look into the life of Bheeshma, MahaBharatha, He had the power to live in his body till He Willed!

Moreover, Bhaagavan's words and other Saint's words and responses, can never be generalised! they are case specific, questioner specific and we can surely see contradition to same responses by Jnanis. If we observe carefully, from ordinary eye, even in Bhaagavad Gita, we can see so many contradiction in Krishnas responses.

Ultimately, it goes beyond doubt that a "Jnani" cannot be FIT into our definition or our understanding. hence, what ever, we know, still is not That! For That is not an object of knowing, experiencing!

Ultimately, Bhagavan always brought us back to I only, He gave so many answers and responses, we have tones of thousand of Books,.... but all of what avail? they are all nothing!, they are just merely for quietening our minds, just like a mother making her child eat its food somehow by telling fancy stories and then bring us back to the I -

The Self.

There is no way of finding out, but by just becoming one, or being one!

Who am I?

Salutations to Bhagavan

3704
General topics / Jiva
« on: December 04, 2011, 11:22:25 AM »
The idea of birthlessness exists along with the idea of birth and deathlessness along with the idea of death. Hence both the ideas belong to the realm of ignorance only.

Can the Jiva said to exist separately from the Atman?

from the Maandukya Karika of Sri Gaudapadacharya -

धर्मा य इति जायन्ते जायन्ते न तत्वतः ।
जन्म मायोपमं तेषां सा च माया न विद्यते ॥ ५८ ॥

यथा मायामयाद्वीजाज्जायते तन्मयोऽकुंरः ।
नासो नित्यो न चोच्छेदी तद्वद्धर्मेषु योजना ॥ ५९ ॥

नाजेषु सर्वधर्मेषु शाश्वताशाश्वताभिधा ।
यत्र वर्णो न वर्तन्ते विवेकस्तत्र नोच्यते ॥ ६० ॥

न कश्चिज्जायते जीवः संभवोऽस्य न विद्यते  ।
एतत्त्तदुत्तमं सत्यं यत्र किंचिन्न जायते ॥ ७२ ॥

योऽस्ति कल्पितसंवृत्या परमार्थेन नास्त्यसौ ।
परतन्त्राभिसंवृत्या स्यान्नस्ति परमार्थतः ॥ ७३ ॥

अजः कल्पितसंवृत्या परमार्थेन नाप्यजः ।
परतन्त्राभिनिष्पत्या संवृत्या जायते तु सः ॥ ७४ ॥
Those Jivas (entitities or beings) are said to be born. But that birth which is
never possible from the standpoint of Reality. Their birth is like that of an
illusory object. That illusion, again, is non existent.


The illusory sprout comes forth from the illusory seed.
This illusory sprout is neither permanent nor destructible.
The same applies to Jiva.

The epithets of permanence or impermanence cannot be applied to
unborn Jivas.
That which is indescribable by words cannot
be discriminated (as real or unreal)

No kind of Jiva is ever born nor is there any cause for any such birth.
The ultimate truth is that nothing whatsoever is born.


That which exists  on the strength of the illusory experiences does not,
really speaking, exist. That which, again, is said to exist on the strength
of the views supported by the other schools of thought, does not,
really speaking, exist.

Atman is called unborn from the standpoint of the illusory empirical
experiences. It is, truly speaking, not even unborn. That unborn Atman
appears to be born only from the standpoint of the belief of the other
schools of thought

Salutations to Bhagavan

3705
Dear Subramanian Sir,

I feel, "Jnanam" does not even act! That is Its Natural Self! There is no Action, and, there is no Inaction too! It is beyond action and inaction! Moreover, why should a "jnanam" act, and, for who does "Jnanam" act? there is "no other" for a "Jnanam"

It only seems acting to us, who see. That "Jnanam" is also but, just a reflection of the glorious Self within! There are no two "Jnanams" The Jnani as we see, and the Self that only is!

When we look within and see and discern subtly, it is basically, only because, the self sees itself different from itself!

Salutations to Bhagavan

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