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Messages - Nagaraj

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General topics / Re: Karma
« on: February 02, 2012, 08:30:53 AM »
Bhagavan says, find out who is the 'I' that is suffering, and, it shall save you from all pains and sufferings and ignorance, it shall reveal to you all that you need to remember, all that you need to learn.

It shall itself reveal all the secrets about Karma.

Salutations to Bhagavan

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Where is the problem ?
« on: December 29, 2011, 04:47:54 PM »
Dear Udai,

yes, true, that is the reason why there are said to be about 33 crores of Gods in our way. Each one chooses what is best for oneself!

What is good for oneself may not be acceptable to another! We all choose Ramana, some chose Prabhupada, some choose Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, some Ramanujar, some Christ, some Allah, some Sri Ramakrishna, some Satya Sai Baba, some Shirdi Sai Baba, some even Eckhart Tolle etc...

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: few points for contemplation
« on: December 29, 2011, 04:44:33 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

It would be great if you could narrow down your point of focus. While I am able to generally follow what you are conveying, but I am little lost about what topic you are trying to bring to surface for discussion.

Salutations to Bhagavan

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Where is the problem ?
« on: December 29, 2011, 04:37:34 PM »
Dear Subramanian Sir,

I love the poetic expressions of Kambar, I have heard few quotations from the tamizh Ramayanam, and i felt, it required an decent scholarly understanding for one to really understand and appreciate the poets expression in its pristine-ity, which most commoners fail to discern.

When Tulasi das first set out to compose his version of Ramayanam, he began to compose in sanskrit, Tulasidas was a great sanskrit scholar but each day when he wrote something, the script used to disappear every day and he repeated this again and again and it disappeared again and again! Then he was depressed and wondered if he was not fit enough or he had come defect, but in his dream (insight) he heard within that there are already thousands of sanskrit version of Ramayana and none had yet composed the Ramayana in saral hindi language which even the most innocent person without any education could appreciate the Ramayana Rasa. Today, Tulasi Ramayana is the most widely read Ramayana in Bharata country

Salutations to Bhagavan

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Where is the problem ?
« on: December 29, 2011, 04:25:06 PM »
Dear Udai, Subramanian Sir,

:) there is a secret message in all these aspects of Puranas too! While it may sound ridiculous to hear abut Rama and his ignorance, that Vishnu and Brahma both search for the head and foot of Lord Shiva, Lord Muruga and Ganesah fight for simple fruit and Karthikeya gets angry and goes to Pazhani Malai with just a Koupinam, Sage Durvasa cursed Vishnu, because of which Vishnu had to take 10 avatars in earth, etc...

There are plenty of stories like these. But the real secret is that, these kinds of stories are deliberately written by the Sages to indicate that we are ourselves the Self, and being the very Self, we fall down from our glory!

For instance, Vishnu and Brahma searching for Shiva's head and foot indicates the same Self. Vishnu is Shiva is Brahma is the very Self itself and our effort to search for the Self is like searching the head and toe of Lord Shiva which is the Self itself!

It is like the same Self (Vishnu, Brahma) forget themselves and go in search of same Self (Shiva) and search for some particular ends!

It clearly depicts the paradox of our search! Kabir has illustrated this beautifully in his Doha, Kasturi Kundal Base Mrig Dhunde Van Maahi - The kasturi, a fragrant, is in naval of a particular specie of deer, but the deer having its fragrance runs in search of that in whole of forest, to whom it concerns?

The same is the case of Vishnu and Brahma searching for Shiva, Muruga and Ganesha fight, Sri Rama's ignorance!

Not many see this hidden secret :)

Its lovely! I hope I was able to convey what I intended to!

The Self searching for Self Paradoxes!!!! While we say easily how stupid it is that the poets have conveyed the ignorance of Rama, while we forget our own ignorance! We being that very Self, keep looking around elsewhere. The Sages have illustrated this with a hidden sense of humor!

Salutations to Bhagavan

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Where is the problem ?
« on: December 29, 2011, 03:14:34 PM »
Dear Udai,

That Ahalya became a stone is described in all other kinds of Ramayanas, especially in the Kamba Ramayana and Tulasi Ramayana. But it is just a poetic expression of the poet. Becoming a stone does not mean literally. It means Ahalya lost her glory and wisdom and discernments and discrimination and remained like a "jada" She had become a stone hearted and had lost all the virtues of a celebrated human being.

I too have seen so may say things about Ahalya, they say things without proper understanding and discerning the inner essence of the poets expression.

Such a stone hearted Ahalya needed the Sparsha Dheeksha of the soft hands of Sri Rama and his sweet and caressing words of Sri Rama. One of the names of Sri Rama in Sri Rama Ashtottara is "Mridu Bhashine" meaning "Soft Spoken"

Look at the story of Angulimaala who used to kill people and cut the persons thumb and had it as a garland as a testimony to his killing. He needed the soft words of Buddha to wake him up, He was a stone too, till Buddha's touch graced him!

Salutations to Bhagavan

General Discussion / Re: Progression or Erosion of Brahmin Ethos?
« on: December 28, 2011, 07:10:24 PM »
Dear Friends,

Dear all,

I would like to mention Swami Vivekananda's quotes along with my previous post on Progression or Erosion of Brahmin Ethos. I felt it is essential to also include these quotes as some points may be slightly extremist in nature for some!

Therefore, it is important to filter what ever we read with proper discernment and knowledge:

"It is man-making religion that we want. It is man-making theories that we want. It is man-making education all round that we want. And here is the test of truth- anything that makes you weak physically, intellectually and spiritually reject as poison; there is no life in it, it cannot be true. Truth is strengthening. Truth is purity. Truth is all knowledge."

"Each soul is potentially divine. The goal is to manifest this divinity by controlling nature, external and internal. Do this either by work, or worship, or psychic control, or philosophy - by one, or more, or all of these - and be free. This is the whole of religion. Doctrines, or dogmas, or rituals, or books, or temples, or forms, are but secondary details.”

Salutations to Bhagavan

General Discussion / Progression or Erosion of Brahmin Ethos?
« on: December 28, 2011, 04:26:15 PM »
Dear Friends,

I received a forward email and this is of general interest to everybody and specially the brahmin community in particular. The content is definitely worth reading and reflecting!

  • Please note – The Self, Parents, Grand-parents are representative Brahmin characters of 3 generations below. It does not reflect me or my predecessors entirely. I do imbibe shades of many of them though.
  • My great grand-father never went to Kaapi hotel. My grand-father secretly went to the kaapi hotel. My father openly went to hotel on need basis. I go to hotel everyday for survival; sometimes to Velu military hotel too! So what?
  • My great grand-father never tasted coffee. My grand-father started having coffee and deviced a style for Kumbakonam coffee. My father has 4 cups a day and gets head-ache (read as addiction to caffeine) if he misses the turns. He takes tea too. I take all forms of drinks now! So what?
  • My great grand-father piously did 3 times Sandhi. My grand-father at least did once a day, and sometimes more than that. My father rarely did Gayathri. But, catches up once a day Sandyavandhanam, after retirement. I don’t know to do Sandhyavandanam. So what?
    My grand-father had no hesitations in saying “Abhivadhayae” in public when he saw elders. My father knew it, but never displayed it as obedience to elders, in public. Probably, he found that practice embarrassing. I neither know Abhivadhaye, nor care about it! So what?
    When Kingdoms existed, probably Royal families endorsed Brahmins and supported them. My great grand-father either was ringing bell in one of the sanctum-sanctorum or helping the Brahmin and Royal community conduct Hindu rituals. Today, Kingdom doesn’t exist and Brahmins rendering such service are rare; those who render such service do it for a big fee. So what?
  • Today’s Sastrigal don’t do Sandhi regularly and do not follow Brahminical norms. They treat their work as job and recite & conduct rituals and go; sometimes cut it short, if they know, we don’t know! They treat their appearance, with small tuft of late, as their dress code only and carry no sanctity. They eat in hotels and chew paan/gutka. Some are regulars in TASMAC shops too. This is being treated now as a profession and not service. So what? I have hesitation in calling them and even if I do, have reservations in falling at their feet. So what?
  • My great grand-father was sporting a tuft and shaved his beard clean. My grand-father removed the tuft and sported a cropped-hair but still was clean shaven. My father sported a moustache with a loose cut during his younger days. I sport a Goatee and sometimes a full beard; I color my hair black routinely. Some of those bald headed brahmins, sport a wig even. So what?
  • My grand-mother showed perfect obedience to her in-laws, despite her in-laws and naathanaar tortures. My mother showed little restraint and moved away decade later. My wife and I started our family as “Thani kudithanam” from Day 1. When I search alliance for my son, I will tell them openly during engagement, to move away after marriage. I will start looking for an old-age home for myself. I know, what is sent, comes back![size=78%][/size]
  • My father prostrated without hesitations to elders. I do it when insisted by my parents. My children will never do it. So what?
    When my parents come to my home, they are not welcomed. Years later, when they departed, my wife asked me to observe Mahalayapaksham for Pithrus, as we think that our good place in heaven is linked to it! So what? So will my son and daughter or may not be too.. So what?[size=78%][/size]
  • My grand-parents kept ancestral names to my father.  My father kept my name as Suresh, Ramesh, Mahesh etc for fancy. I keep my wards name as Akil, Nikil, Tejas, Shreyas etc for easy pronunciation and corporate appeal. My son will keep his children’s name as Bob balsu, Sherin Shriya, Tony Tarun, Mohd Mahesh for universal appeal depending on whether he is in USA/Europe or Middle-east. So what?[size=78%][/size]
  • My Children dislike using words like “Avaa, Ivaa, Aathukku, Poraelaa, Varaelaa, Jalam / Thootham,  etc.” and they shifted to non-brahminical language like “Veedu, Thanni, Poriyal etc”. So what?[size=78%][/size]
  • We don’t like kids addressing us as Maamaa/Maamii etc. Uncle/Aunty sounds better to us. Most of this generation don’t want to use words like Authukaarar/Aathukaari (not regularly,  as a rare quote too). We don’t know the meaning of Orpudi, nathanaar, Shuddagarr etc. So what?
  • My great grand-mother never uttered my great grand-father’s name. My grand-mother sometimes called my grand-father as “Indha Brahmanannnn” during distress. My mother had no hesitation in telling my father’s name but called him “Vaango, Pongo”. My wife calls me by name and “vaada, podaa” more to prove some point than a necessity. So what?[size=78%][/size]
  • The age difference between Brahmin couples has narrowed down since ages. I also see some marriages where the boy is younger than the girl. So what?
  • Marriages were for the keeps during my grand-parent’s times. My father’s days, one or two marriages ended up in divorce and they were treated as social out-caste. Today, if slightly provoked, people go to family courts. My son and daughter may go for pre-nupital agreement and courtships. So what?[size=78%][/size]
  • Brahmin Society pushed my grand-father to the city for survival. It pushed my father to other states in India. Society pushed me outside the country and told me to go to the “U.S of A”. If I did not, the Brahmin society ridiculed me as incompetent. My son and daughter wants to stay in the “U.S. of A” and most likely will get me a “Durai or Durasaani” as Mappillai or Maatuponnu. So what?
  • My great grand-father never ate in a marriage hall as the food was prepared by a Barjaaragun.  My grand-father ate, but my grand-mother stayed away and prepared her food in “kumutti-aduppu” along with few others of her age and ate “madi saappadu”. My father ate in Brahmin and non-brahmin marriages but stayed Vegetarian. I eat in all marriages and don’t hesitate to eat “all” types of food outside! My son would prepare non-veg at home. So what?[size=78%][/size]
  • My grand-mother strictly followed madi and aacharam (Yechall, Patthhu etc). She will ask me to help her to pull out one of the madi saree from the Kodi with a stick and give it to her (on the stick) after her bath. My mother knew such practices but never followed. My wife does not know it. So what?[size=78%][/size]
  • My grand-mother stayed in kollaipuram with insects bites, scary thoughts, weird sounds during her mensus period. People cruelly sent her to the backyard, 3 days a month.  My mother was inside the house in the city but was in a different room. My wife and I live in apartment and stay side-by-side all the days. So what?[size=78%][/size]
  • My grand-father was respected as “Iyeru” by kudiyanavan. My father was ignored by them as Kudiyanavan’s children started studying. I studied and work with some of them. When I was young, they made fun of me as “Iyeru deiiiiiii”. And teased me and my language. I never reacted to them; I just bent my head when such things happened. My son is not and will not be aware of such changes and differences. So what?[size=78%][/size]
  • My grand-father married the girl, whom my great grand-father pointed (and the girl did the same too on her side). He or she had no choice. My father had the option to see the girls that my grand-father showed. I selected my wife from matrimony sites; the families not known to each other in any ways. My son and daughter will select partner from Coffee shop, DATING sites and courtship. So what?
    Today most Brahmin family (or their cousins) has some non-brahmin daughter or son-in-law. Tomorrow, we may start selecting boy and girl from other communities too. So what?[size=78%][/size]
  • My great grand-father went to Kaasi, learnt Vedas and carried out Purohitham as his profession or brahminical service. He was living in penury, with kings not there to support such people! Brahmin society made fun of him as “Yezhai sastry”. My grand-father took up govt job and my father became a graduate and worked for a private firm. I did B.Tech & MBA and work for a Global MNC. We have moved away from the laid out Brahminical norms slowly and steadily through generations. So what?
  • Today, all of us call ourselves as “Traditional, Conservative but yet Modern upbringing”, especially when searching for alliances. I don’t know what exactly this means. But, I think, this is an inference of the above summary. If it is, I am one among them too.
  • I see quiet a few elders (must be retired Senior bankers, Govt servants or retired from MNC and definitely not true Sastrigals) advising youngsters not to go after money but to tread in Brahminical path. With due respects to them, I see lots of hypocrisy in their statements. They played the role described as a Father in the previous summary. I would ask all the elders to take the quote from Kavignar Kannadasan before advising others. In all of Kannadasan’s books (especially “Arthamulla Indu madham”) he states on the first page, “I have lived my life, in ways it should not have been lived. I have the right to tell others, how life should be lived”.
  • Most often, we advise others what we never practiced. I feel I am not worthy enough to advise anybody; so are others! Brahmins have changed; so did our customs and practices. Our Children inherit from us. They just echo what we did earlier, but more loudly.
  • I don’t know if such changes are some kind of progression or erosion of Brahmin values and ethos. It is arguable whether this is good or bad. Whatever it is, I am part of it and hence a catalyst. If I want things to change, I need to change first.

General Discussion / Re: dream and the world
« on: December 28, 2011, 10:59:19 AM »
Dear incameet,

What Subramanian Sir says is correct, but we have to understand it in proper perspective. Day dreaming means, observing Snake instead of the rope. imagining a water body while it is just a mirage. Seeing palaces in the clouds while it is nothing!


The world is this, that... we think while the world is just the SELF

Salutations to Bhagavan

Yes Udai, Subramanian Sir,

Its nice to have a Guru like Bhagavan and so nice to be a disciple like Annamalai Swamy.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: Advaita Vedanta and Mahayana Buddhism
« on: December 24, 2011, 06:09:05 PM »
Dear Ramana,

I have never said anywhere that Buddha is not realised. All through I have only been trying to say that when Buddha said the glass is half empty, Shankara said its half filled. Both are same.

Nothingness = Everythingness: both are infinite (can never be measured)

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: Tamil inscription found in Egypt
« on: December 24, 2011, 09:40:16 AM »
I believe, there are many more such discoveries to be unearthed! It is said that in other countries when civilization was still being evolved and, when people were still nomadic, there were Tamizh Pulavars (great philosophers) in our country along with the Vedas.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: Advaita Vedanta and Mahayana Buddhism
« on: December 24, 2011, 09:11:40 AM »
The many different religions are appropriate to the maturity of each individual, and all of them are acceptable to reality.

(Guru Vachaka Kovai, 342)

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: Advaita Vedanta and Mahayana Buddhism
« on: December 23, 2011, 04:00:21 PM »
Dear Subramanian Sir, Krishnan,

yes difference exists... while i agree, to have expected Sri Shankara to have created Ashtamatham is little exaggerated, but he would have had debates over the issues intereligious issues we have today, like may be so that over debates, he would have had dialogues about the Christians issue that only Chirst is salvation and no other way will save you and similarly with Islam as well.

Well, we could have expected something!

Well, yes Advaita is not a new doctrine, but the point to note was the reason why "advaita" had to be coined! It is more so to show more light on the Vedic revelations that they are genuinely universal!

Krishnan, in a way, as you said, yes it is true that Paramacharaya did not talk much about Advaita because it is likely to be misunderstood by the masses. Yes, because, Advaita is perhaps a great leap in the Hindu Maha Samrajyam. Advaita paved way, and opened gates bigger than ever before and more prominently, it is capable of being interpreted according to ones own faith, be it what ever it is! That itself shows its universality! The fear that it is easily possible to get misinterpreted means it is without any boundary of religion and faiths!

Today we are in times where we are seeing Christian Advaita, Islam advaita, though their religions may not accept it, but these saints who experienced the Advaita, were Shruti Pramana only! Is it not so? Their experiences match with the Pramaanas as revealed in the Vedas. For a Vedantist, all people who believe in God is a believer, there is no restriction for a Vedantist has to believe only in Krishna, only Shiva, etc...

A vedantist is able to accept Jesus, Allah and others as Guru, God - This is because of the spirit of our Vedas. in Gita Krishna sang "Whosoever comes to Me, through whatsoever form, I reach him; all men are struggling through paths which in the end lead to Me." So how can a Vedantist possibly reject others?

For a Vedantist, it does not matter if other accept the Truth (Shruti Pramana) HE HAS TO ACCEPT - THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT. THE VEDAS SAY - YOU ACCEPT THE SHRUTI PRAMANA, DO NOT WORRY ABOUT OTHERS WHETHER THEY ACCEPT IT OR NOT. this is the true spirit!

Shruti Pramana is the acceptance of Truth! Veda is Truth. There are 2 ways of looking at "Veda" - one is seeing it as a religion and the other seeing it as the Truth.

The Veda says, "Ekam Sat, Vipraah Bahudaa Vadanti" there is one truth, sages call it differently

Doesn't all true spirit of all other religions too fulfill this? I personally feel, For a Vedantist, there is no 2 religions, there in only one Sanathana Dharma. For a true Vedantist, there is no idea that He is a Christian, he is a Muslim! A Vedantist only sees the spirit, the truth behind the seeker. They too believe in God. The Same God, has created the Non Vedic paths too! How can we limit God by misquoting it as they don't fall under Shruti Pramaana?

It is a different matter whether the Christians or Islamists accept Vedas. But for us, Vedantists, they are not "anyam" different! For us the truth is Pramana. That is why even in our nature, when we read some quotations from the bible or Quran, we are able to recognise the truth that is revealed outside the scope of Vedas, but still we are able to accept it as it satisfies the Shruti Pramana.


Swami Vivekananda in his speech in Chicago spoke thus:

I am proud to belong to a religion which has taught the world both tolerance and universal acceptance. We believe not only in universal toleration, but we accept all religions as true. I am proud to belong to a nation which has sheltered the persecuted and the refugees of all religions and all nations of the earth. I am proud to tell you that we have gathered in our bosom the purest remnant of the Israelites, who came to the southern India and took refuge with us in the very year in which their holy temple was shattered to pieces by Roman tyranny. I am proud to belong to the religion which has sheltered and is still fostering the remnant of the grand Zoroastrian nation. I will quote to you, brethren, a few lines from a hymn which I remember to have repeated from my earliest boyhood, which is every day repeated by millions of human beings:

As the different streams having there sources in different places all mingle their water in the sea, so, O Lord, the different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.

The present convention, which is one of the most august assemblies ever held, is in itself a vindication, a declaration to the world, of the wonderful doctrine preached in the Gita:

Whosoever comes to Me, through whatsoever form, I reach him; all men are struggling through paths which in the end lead to Me.

Sectarianism, bigotry, and its horrible descendant, fanaticism, have long possessed this beautiful earth. They have filled the earth with violence, drenched it often and often with human blood, destroyed civilization, and sent whole nations to despair. Had it not been for these horrible demons, human society would be far more advanced than it is now. But their time is come; and I fervently hope that the bell that tolled this morning in honor of this convention may be the death-knell of all fanaticism, of all persecutions with the sword or with the pen, and of all uncharitable feelings between persons wending their way to the same goal.

I am not qualified enough to talk about Shruti Pramana, but my heart is unable to reject the views of Swami Vivekananda which speaks of highest universality! And I, in my limited understanding, cannot but only see all religions as one - Sanathana Dharma, and it satisfies to me without an iota of doubt that all recognised religions which preaches the Truth by what ever path is RECOGNISED BY THE VEDAS AND FULFIL THE SHRUTI PRAMANA.

Only in Sanathana Dharma, one need not convert to Hindusim - This itself is a simple Pramana that Truth is Supreme. One can still remain a Christian or Muslim and may not even know any Vedanta or Shruti Pramana and yet realise the Self as revealed by the Vedas!

Loka Samasta Sukhino Bhavantu - Let peace pervade in all worlds

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: vasanakshayam - Freedom from Tendencies
« on: December 23, 2011, 11:18:41 AM »
तदागमे हि तद् दृश्यते

Tadaagame Hi Tad Drushyate

Sanskrit has a lot of maxims and they convey highest tatva in smallest words and simplest of examples or analogies.

The maxim of the virtue or characteristic that is acquired and not natural. It takes its origin from the fact that the heated state of oil is due to the action of the fire; therefore heat is not a property of the oil but of the fire.

Therefore, Vasanas can be easily destroyed by the grace of God alone (fire) to try and win over Vasanas only by our own effort is like assuming the heat as the property of oil, where as its of the fire - fire of jnana, grace.

What we need to do is allow ourselves to be heated up by His grace by not assuming that we (oil) can heat ourselves up!

Salutations to Bhagavan

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