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Messages - Nagaraj

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3586
Krishnan, Subramanian Sir, Friends

Here is a Kabir's doha:

Peeya chahe prem ras, raakha chaahe maan*.
Ek myaan me do khaDg, dekha suna na kaan.

You want to drink the wine of Love and want to keep your self-identity too, which is not possible. I have never heard two swords being kept in one sheath

keeping self-identity and drinking the wine of love are impossible in the similar way. Maan is not similar to respect, but it denotes to the rights a Beloved gets when he knows how much his lover loves him. He is so much loved that what ever he will ask, the lover will grant out of the love he has for the Beloved, but still all things granted in such a way are not a substitute of Love.

Pure love is not something that is to be got. It is already there, by default, just that it is covered by our ideas and other dirt. Recognise the barriers and break open them and allow yourself to be vulnerable before the Mother of the Universe.

Just proper discernment is necessary. You are not different from all those great saints you have quoted. When you truly see your God, even a fraction of her, you are killed that very moment. Where is place for 'you' in her?

Ssalutations to Bhagavan

3587
General topics / Handling samsaric problems
« on: March 13, 2012, 07:22:29 AM »
Everybody gets in to some sort of Samsaric problems and it becomes a cause of worry, deep worry, which may lead to thoughts such as, Oh what did i do now, feeling of guilty, unable to take any decisions, unable to accept reality, unable to do something when you desperately want to do something inorder to help somebody, unable to make somebody understand, and so on....

It helps to keep affirming again and again, that all this is dream, all this is but just a dream. Also reflect that what ever happens is but just a dream, no matter what I do or not, no matter what happens or not - all that happens or not happens is just a dream.

When nothing helps, remember it is nothing but just a dream. When there seems to be no way to escape, then affirm again and again that this is just a dream. All the relatives, fiends, loved ones, all are dream. All sufferings are happening only in dream. Keep affirming again and again, that all is dream.

Respond in a way you would normally do, and affirm again that your responding too, is just a dream!

Automatically, we are reminding ourselves the illusory nature of the universe and the hold on the world is relaxed.

All this is dream. We are that which sees all the dream, who is ever awake!

The more we remind ourselves of that, that is of illusory nature, we are clearing the clouds that seem to hide the ever shining Sun, Self.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3588
Dear Anand,

I reproduce the following quote from Bhagavan, that is potential enough to blast ones hold on freewill and destiny.

"The waking state also is equivalent to a dream, only that the Waking is long and a dream is short; other than this there is no difference. Just as waking happenings seem real while awake, so do those in a dream while dreaming"

So, Anand, for whom is this freewill and destiny? It is either to the one who is Sleep dreaming or who is Waking dreaming. Do we worry about the destiny of a character in a movie? Do we worry about the exercise of freewill by a character in a movie?

So when we know, all this to be a dream, what matters about freewill or destiny? it is just dream, and nothing else!

Infact, this is also being told to you in your dream only, this also is just dream, but this awakening is happening due to the grace of your Self, which is none but Bhagavan himself.

If you truly understand this, then the question about freewill and destiny can never haunt you, for you will know very clearly that it is just a mirage, or a shadow. You will not worry about what is going to happen, what to do or what not todo, etc...
you will not even bother whether you will be Self Realised or would you even care much to put efforts to become Self Realised. Does it help you if you enact as "Jnaneshwar" or "Ramana Maharshi" in a movie? does the enacting of attainment of Self Realisation in a movie help you in any way? No, therefore, realise this truth and.... (I do not want to also add "just Be", as by this too, one will start building ideas, as to what "Just Being" is)

Having said this, till one is completely awake(complete conviction),  one has to keep doing ones Swadharma, consciously, with awareness.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3589
Dear Achalam,

Freewill, Destiny is ignorance. Self does not have either destiny or freewill.

All the talks about freewill and destiny is just dream.

You neither have freewill nor destiny.

Contemplate, where then, do you belong? what could be beyond freewill and destiny?

Salutations to Bhagavan

3590
General topics / Re: Everything is you
« on: March 12, 2012, 06:49:59 AM »
Thank you so much Subramanian Sir.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3591
General topics / Re: Everything is you
« on: March 10, 2012, 08:25:12 PM »
Dear Subramanian Sir,

Kindly share the contact details, I would be most happy to buy a set of books for myself.

Vallalar sang,

"Kadaiyai thiranden Vaanguvor illai"

I opened the shop, but nobody is there to buy, referring to "bliss" of Atman.

Is one of the most profound statements of ecstasy, which expresses his sadness, that nobody is ready to truly listen to him.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3592
Friends, this is another enlightening incident in the life of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. This is about breaking the barrier and giving absolutely no room to any kind of duality between Jivatma and Paramatma.



Ashtavakra said;

"O SON, LONG HAVE YOU BEEN CAUGHT IN THE NOOSE OF BODY-CONSCIOUSNESS. CUT THIS NOOSE WITH THE SWORD OF KNOWING 'I AM AWARENESS' AND BE HAPPY. THAT WHICH IS BORN, REMAINS, INCREASES, CHANGES, DETERIORATES AND PERISHES: YOU ARE NOT THAT. YOU ARE ALONE, VOID OF ACTION, SELF-ILLUMINATED AND INNOCENT. YOUR BONDAGE IS THIS: THAT YOU PRACTICE SAMADHI (MEDITATION).

"THIS UNIVERSE IS PERMEATED BY YOU, IT IS STRUNG ON THE THREAD OF YOU. IN REALITY YOU ARE PURE CONSCIOUSNESS BY NATURE, DO NOT BECOME SMALL-MINDED. YOU ARE UNCONCERNED, UNCHANGING, VOID OF FORM, OF COOL DISPOSITION, FATHOMLESS INTELLIGENCE, UNPERTURBED. THUS HAVE FAITH ONLY IN CONSCIOUSNESS.

"KNOW THAT WHICH HAS FORM IS FALSE, AND KNOW THE FORMLESS AS UNCHANGEABLE AND EVERLASTING. FROM THIS TEACHING OF THE TRUTH IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO BE BORN IN THE WORLD AGAIN. JUST AS A MIRROR IS THE SAME INSIDE AND OUTSIDE THE IMAGE REFLECTED IN IT, GOD IS THE SAME INSIDE AND OUTSIDE THIS BODY. JUST AS THE ONE ALL-PERVADING SKY IS THE SAME INSIDE AND OUTSIDE A POT, THE ETERNAL EVERLASTING BRAHMA IS THE SAME IN ALL THINGS."

The first sutra: Ashtavakra said, "O son, long have you been caught in the noose of body-consciousness. Cut this noose with the sword of knowing 'I am awareness' and be happy."

In Ashtavakra's vision -- and this is the purest vision, the ultimate vision -- bondage is only a belief, bondage is not real.

There is an episode in Ramakrishna's life.... For his whole life he had been worshipping Mother Kali, but at the very end he began to feel, "It is duality; the experience of oneness has still not happened. It is lovely, delightful, but two still remains two." Someone loves a woman, someone loves money, someone politics; he loved Ma Kali -- but love still was divided in two. Still the ultimate nonduality hadn't happened and he was in anguish. He began looking out for a nondualist, a Vedantist -- for some person to come who could show him the path.

A paramahansa named Totapuri was passing. Ramakrishna invited him to stop with him and asked, "Help me to have darshan of the one."

Totapuri said, "What's difficult in that? You believe there are two, so there are two. Drop the belief!"

Ramakrishna replied, "But dropping this belief is very difficult -- I have lived with it my whole life. When I close my eyes the image of Kali is standing there. I drown in that nectar. I forget that I am to become one; as soon as I close my eyes there are two. When I try to meditate, it becomes dual. Help me out of this!"

So Totapuri said, "Try this: when the image of Kali is before you, pick up a sword and cut her in two."

Ramakrishna said, "Where will I find a sword?"

What Totapuri said is the same as what is said in Ashtavakra's sutra. Totapuri said, "From where did you bring this Kali image? -- bring a sword from the same place. She too is imaginary. She too is an embellishment of your imagination. Through nurturing it for your whole life, through continuously projecting it for your whole life, it has become crystalized. It is just imagination. Not everyone sees Kali when they close their eyes."

After years of effort a Christian closes his eyes, and Christ comes to him. A devotee of Krishna closes his eyes and Krishna comes to him. A lover of Buddha closes his eyes and Buddha comes to him. A lover of Mahavira closes his eyes and Mahavira comes to him. Christ doesn't come to a Jaina, Mahavira doesn't come to a Christian: only the image you project will come. Ramakrishna's effort was with Kali, and the image became almost solid. It became so real from constant repetition, from continuous remembering, that it seemed Kali was standing in from of him. No one was standing there.

Consciousness is alone. There is no second here, no other.

"Just close your eyes," Totapuri said, "raise the sword and strike."

Ramakrishna closed his eyes, but as soon as he closed them his courage vanished. Raising his sword to strike Kali! -- the devotee has to raise his sword and strike God -- it was too hard.

To renounce the world is very easy. What is worth holding onto in the world? But when you have established an image deep in the mind, when you have created poetry in the mind, when the mind's dream has become manifest, then it is very difficult to renounce it. The world is like a nightmare. A dream of devotion, a dream of feeling is not a nightmare, it is a very sweet dream. How to drop it? how to break it?

Tears would start flowing from his eyes and he became ecstatic... his body would begin shaking. But he didn't raise his sword -- he would completely forget about it.

Finally Totapuri said, "I've wasted many days here. It's no good. Either you do it or I'm going to leave. Don't waste my time. Enough of this nonsense now!" That day Totapuri brought a piece of glass with him, and he said, "When you begin to be absorbed in delight, I will cut your forehead with this piece of glass. When I cut your forehead, inside gather courage, raise your sword and cut Kali in two. This is the last chance -- I am not staying any longer."

Totapuri's threat of leaving... and it is difficult to find such a master. Totapuri must have been a man like Ashtavakra. Ramakrishna closed his eyes and Kali's image appeared to him. He was about to bliss out -- tears were ready to flow from his eyes, overwhelmed, joy was coming -- he was about to become ecstatic when Totapuri held his forehead and, where the third eye chakra is, made a cut from top to bottom with the piece of glass. Blood began to stream from the cut, and this time Ramakrishna found courage. He raised the sword and cut Kali in two pieces. When Kali fell apart he became nondual: the wave dissolved in the ocean, the river fell into the ocean. It is said that he stayed immersed for six days in this ultimate silence. He was neither hungry nor thirsty -- there was no consciousness of the outside, no awareness. All was forgotten. And when he opened his eyes six days later, the first thing he said was, "The last barrier has fallen!"

(From internet sources)

Salutations to Bhagavan

3593
Arunachala / Re: dying in arunachala and dying in kashi
« on: March 09, 2012, 05:59:05 PM »
Dear Krishnan, Friends,

Please Refer this Post

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6896.msg25169#msg25169

Salutations to Bhagavan

3594
General topics / Re: Mukti sthalas outside of India?
« on: March 09, 2012, 05:57:24 PM »
Dear Krishnan, Friends,

I reproduce here, Sri Adi Shankaracharya's Kashi Panchakam:

मनोनिवृत्तिः परमोपशान्तिः
सा तीर्थवर्या मणिकर्णिका च.
ज्ञानप्रवाहा विमलादिगङ्गा
सा काशिकाहं निजबोधरूपा (1)


manonivṛttiḥ paramopaśāntiḥ
sā tīrthavaryā maṇikarṇikā ca |
jñānapravāhā vimalādigaṅgā
sā kāśikāhaṁ nijabodharūpā | | 1 | |

Calming the mind and the (bringing) the complete pacification,
It is the best tirtha, it is Manikarnika.
The flow of knowledge, pure Ganges
This Kashik and this - I am the embodiment of pure awareness.

यस्यामिदं कल्पितमिन्द्रजालं
चराचरं भाति मनोविलासम्.
सच्चित्सुखैका परमात्मरूपा
सा काशिकाहं निजबोधरूपा(2)


yasyāmidaṁ kalpitamindrajālaṁ
carācaraṁ bhāti manovilāsam |
saccitsukhaikā paramātmarūpā
sā kāśikāhaṁ nijabodharūpā | | 2 | |

The one in which all conjured up the illusion
All movable and immovable is shown as a mind game,
The form of Paramatma, Truth, Consciousness and Bliss,
This Kashik and this - I am the embodiment of pure awareness.
कोशेषु पञ्चस्वधिराजमाना
बुद्धिर्भवानी प्रतिदेहगेहम्.
साक्शी शिवः सर्वगतोन्तरात्मा
सा काशिकाहं निजबोधरूपा(3)


kośeṣu pañcasvadhirājamānā
buddhirbhavānī pratidehageham |
sākśī śivaḥ sarvagato'ntarātmā
sā kāśikāhaṁ nijabodharūpā | | 3 | |

Five cover (panchakosha) reigns
Bhavani, mind, living in the house of each body.
And Shiva, Witness, The true essence of all
This Kashik and this - I am the embodiment of pure awareness.

काश्यां हि काश्यते काशी काशी सर्वप्रकाशिका.
सा काशी विदिता येन तेन प्राप्ता हि काशिका(4)


kāśyāṁ hi kāśyate kāśī kāśī sarvaprakāśikā |
sā kāśī viditā yena tena prāptā hi kāśikā | | 4 | |

Kashi shines in Kashye , Kashi illuminates everything
As Kashi is known as Kashi is achieved.

काशीक्शेत्रं शरीरं त्रिभुवन - जननी व्यापिनी ज्ञानगङ्गा.
भक्तिः श्रद्धा गयेयं निजगुरु - चरणध्यानयोगः प्रयागः.
विश्वेशोयं तुरीयः सकलजन - मनःसाक्शिभूतोन्तरात्मा
देहे सर्वं मदीये यदि वसति पुनस्तीर्थमन्यत्किमस्ति(5)


kāśīkśetraṁ śarīraṁ tribhuvana-jananī vyāpinī jñānagaṅgā |
bhaktiḥ śraddhā gayeyaṁ nijaguru-caraṇadhyānayogaḥ prayāgaḥ |
viśveśo'yaṁ turīyaḥ sakalajana-manaḥsākśibhūto'ntarātmā
dehe sarvaṁ madīye yadi vasati punastīrthamanyatkimasti | | 5 | |

Kashikshetra - this body, Mother of three worlds, all-pervading, the Ganges of knowledge,
Devotion and faith - Gaya refuge with clean feet of Guru and meditation - Prayag,
Lord of the world - turiya, a witness in every man and his inner being.
If all this is in my body, what else can be a place of pilgrimage?


Salutations to Bhagavan

3595
General topics / Re: Mukti sthalas outside of India?
« on: March 09, 2012, 03:22:11 AM »
Dear Jyoti,

Some more thoughts...

But a believer of Vedas, makes his own Mukthi Sthala, where ever he is. Today, we have many indians who are resident of many countries, and the small community has built their own colony and temples. we have temples of all vedic faith in most countries. we have temples for Raghavendra(Duality), we have temples of Sharada/Shankaracharya (Advaita) and also of Vishnu/Ramanujacharya as well, also, apart from this we also have the Swaminarayan temples, Shakti temples, practicers of Sri Vidya. And of course we have the modern day Gurus, who preach vedic truths abroad.

Today we have Shaiva Sidhanta Churches sprouting in many places.

It is our Vedas that was first to proclaim,

वसुधैव कुटुम्बकम "Vasudeva Kutumbakam"

that means that the whole world is one single family and allmost all religions agree to this that there is "soul" and as Bhagavan says, lets first realise this "soul" and only then would all theories make any sense! if at all!

Therefore, a believer of Vedas, is ever at home, where ever he may be.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3596
General topics / Re: Mukti sthalas outside of India?
« on: March 09, 2012, 02:52:00 AM »
Not precisely, because, in those country where vedic religion does not exist, other religions (generallY) do not have THE concept about Mukti at all.

Or, we can infer, Jerusalam or Mecca to be a Mukti Sthala.

But I don't know, if people of that religion have any such belief such as Mukti Sthala for even such places.

Which is why, India is called Karma Bhoomi, for outside of India, none of the Shastras are applicable, and the elders used to say, one should not cross the Seas and go away from India, it is Shastrically not allowed.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3597
General topics / Re: Mukti sthalas outside of India?
« on: March 09, 2012, 02:40:37 AM »
Dear Jyoti,

No. There are no Mukti Sthalas outside of Bharata country.

In a deeper sense, ones own self is the Mukthi Sthala, all the external Mukti Sthalas are only symbolic representation of the Self, the Mukti Sthala.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3598
Dear Achalam,

the question is not whether "am I mature enough to practice Self Enquiry?" the question is, Who am I, that asks if I am mature enough to practice Self Enquiry.

One who begins to get such questions like yours, is itself, a proof of your maturity, of aspiring to know, that which is beyond. The matured one, leaves aside all other questions, and just sticks to this one question alone, Who am I? as, he realises the futility of any other question.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3599
Dear Kicsi108,

All religions, all scriptures are shouting the same truth.

What is required is proper understanding of ones own scriptures, unbiased understanding, and not just believing the various interpretations that have been made by the many so long. I do not know much about Christianity, but the interpretations of the bible have been different. There is old and new testaments.

But, if we ourselves look into the very words of Jesus, and inwardly search the essence of it, it truly is one and the same!

This topic http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6683.0 by Ramana, is very useful in this regard.

I truly believe, there is just ONE TRUTH. And, there cannot be two different truths, two different Gods. It is absurd.

Lets not forget Man Made religions, and, god did not!

So, we should aspire to go beyond the Man's mind, which is obviously limited.

Sugar is english word, Cheeni is Hindi word, Sharkar is a Sanskrit, the words are different, but, the sweetness is same. Similarly, the religions are different words for the same sweetness. While ordinary people take the different words to be different, the wise see the same sweetness even though the words are different.

The colours of the cows are many, but, the milk is one.

If you may require, you may bring in any christian quotes here and we could collectively reflect on them and arrive at a common point.

What generally is done is that people take in blindly what one has already interpreted and himself does not question it. This way, religion becomes a dogma.

Buddha says - "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

We have seen many Christain Advaitic Saints, (St. Paul is said to be one) Muslim Advaitic Saints in the past (Sufi Mystics)

Advaita - Means - Non Dual, or we can further say, Non Difference. Hence Hinduism is not even a religion. Hence it is referred to as Sanathana Dharma or Universal truth, That which holds good to anybody, no matter who he is, what he may do, what his beliefs may be

There is no conversion to Sanathana Dharma. You may remain who you are, and continue your own prayers and rituals, and even without dropping your faith, you may realise the same truth, without even having to take a new God or a new messenger as your new one.

The Sanathana Dharma looks at you,, not with your body or mind or your ideas, it looks at you as the Atma, the Soul, the Spirit, which does not have, absolutely any attribute. All attributes, ie. colours, name, form, beliefs pertain to your body alone and not yourself.

hence, it is important for oneself to realise or just know who he really is.

Moreover Kicsi108, you don't even have to think it this way, ie. realising the teachings of Bhagavan Ramana or jesus Christ or Hindu, Islam, Just take it, as, what ever is the truth, Let it show light onto me.

Truth is not something like, Ramana's truth or Jesus's Truth, Prophet's Truth.

The One Universal Truth, they all saw, Let us also have darshan of that one truth, as seen by Ramana, Jesus, Prophet.

We need to change the paradigm of seeing as Ramana's truth, Jesus's Truth, Prophet's Truth.

Let us see and seek Truth.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3600
General topics / Re: one pointed sadhana
« on: March 07, 2012, 06:39:52 AM »
Krishnan, you mentioned that saints like Sambandhar, Thayumanavr, etc... performed just one sadhana and attained liberation, in this context, i would like to share with you this incident  -

One day a lady who was well versed in classical music and who was also proficient in playing the Veena , came up with a question to Bhagavan.

“Bhagavan is it possible to attain liberation through music alone or would other spiritual practices be required,?" the lady asked.

Bhagavan remained silent as if to reveal the stillness of the Atman where no music can penetrate.

The lady, unable to understand Bhagavan's silence further queried, “Did not Saint Thyagaraja and other saints attain moksha by singing the praises of God?"

A smile broke forth from Bhagavan. He said,

"Avaallaam, Adayarthukaaga Paadalai, Adanjada paadinaa"

“Thyagaraja and the others did not attain Moksha through their songs but from the ecstasy that sprang forth from within as a result of their realisation of the ultimate. Their songs were just an expression of their blissful state. This was the reason why their music stood the test of time. This is what is called as 'Nadopanishad!"

The astonished lady prostrated to Bhagavan and said, “Bhagavan all these days I have been living with my own misinterpretation of facts and mistaken beliefs. You have illumined me. My doubts have dispelled and my mind is clear and free!"



Moreover, Krishnan, Subramanian Sir,

It is not about what Sadhana we do, how many Sadhanas we do, whether it one or many, it is all only about the BHAVA, behind what ever one does. Sadhana itself is nothing, it is BHAVAM, that is more important. Krishna has said in the Gita:

पत्रम् पुष्पम् फलम् तोयम् यो मे भक्त्या प्रयच्छति।
तस्याहम् न प्रणस्यामि स च मे न प्रणस्यति॥

patram puspam phalam toyam
yo me bhaktyä prayacchati
tad aham bhakty-upahrtam
asnämi prayatätmanah

whosoever offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, a fruit or water, I will accept it.

here, Krishna does not mean literally, a leaf or a flower or water or fruit or some thing like these, he means the insignificance of what is given, that is, he clearly says that THE INTENTION AND PURITY AND THE BHAAVAM is what counts. The actions are nothing. Sadhana is not something particular. Anybody can do anything, work becomes a Sadhana, any act, what ever, the act itself is not important but the way it awakes one within, the love of God just for Love alone. That alone counts.


Salutations to Bhagavan

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