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Messages - Nagaraj

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What is the mind? What is the Self? If the thoughless mind is the Self then where do the thoughts come from? Why the Self projects the mind deluding Itself of Its Being? If this chain is true world --> body --> senses --> mind --> thoughts --> the Self then every one of them ultimately derives from the Self, then why should we call them unreal? Yes, they are not the Self (considering them as not-Self) but they are real realizing they are the Self. Rope is a rope, it is not a snake but it doesn't mean that the rope doesn't continue to seem like a snake in the dark, I just know now it is a rope. Sun and its rays are not different. It is unreal and untrue if we say that the rays are something different from the Sun. But it is true if we say "They are from the Sun. They are the Sun. I know it now for sure".

Self manifests itself as mind, as thoughts. The Self which is nondual, manifests itself as manifolds by way of mind, as thoughts.

The idea that the Self projects the mind deluding itself of its being is incorrect. The Self is never deluded.

The Self projects itself as Mind, Thoughts for its own sake. Like the waves in an ocean.

You are yourself the Rope and Snake as well. Even though it is a beautiful jewelry with amazing craft, it is just Gold. Gold in the manifestation of a jewelry. Now what is ignorance in this context is forgetfulness of the Gold and knowing the piece as a ring or a necklace. This is all to it. So, if you know that the mind, thoughts, to be just the manifestation of the Self, then the delusion is no more. You know thought, mind like a jewelry, but you are aware that it is Gold, in the end.

If that which appears as dream, illusory (snake, rope) Then, is the perceiver (discerner) of the dream Also illusory?

Salutations to Bhagavan

Udai, yes,

also, when we say, my Self, its a great mistake, there is no place for the word 'my' when we say Self.

We can say My parents, my family, my body, but we can't say My Self, it becomes two there, you are different from your self.

the Self envelops all the 'My' -  That which says myself itself is the Self, That which stakes ownership as its, as 'My' is itself the Self.

Salutations to Bhagavan

I felt,

Real and Unreal, is to be really discerned, real unreal, is not to be taken literally. Real and Unreal is english words of the sanskrit words Sat and Asat.

That which is is Sat, That which is not is Asat. That which is not Sat is Asat.

That which is not Real is Unreal.

That which is not you is Unreal, That which is not you is Asat.

In the same way, that which we see, we recognise, but that is not us, inclusive of our body. My family, my parents, my friend, my body, my mind, but when we say, myself, what do we really recognise?

Hence contemplating the Self with English words becomes difficult, I doubt, if there is an alternative word for myself in sanskrit.

But they say in sanskrit as Aham, or Ayam, but the english word Myself does not even come close to Aham or Ayam.

some musings...

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Ramana, Udai,

Likewise, we recognise our limbs, our body, so it is so that this body too is just seen as we see our mother, who are we?

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Vasanas after knowing the truth
« on: March 30, 2012, 09:19:29 AM »
ज्ञाते वस्तुन्यपि बलवती वासनाऽनादिरेषा
कर्ता भोक्ताप्यहमिति दृढा याऽस्य संसारहेतुः।
प्रत्यग्दृष्ट्याऽऽत्मनि निवसता सापनेया प्रयत्ना-
न्मुक्तिं प्राहुस्तदिह मुनयो वासनातानवं यत् ॥२६७॥

Jnaate Vastunyapi Balavati Vaasanaanaadireshaa
Kartaam Bhoktaapyamiti Druda Yaasya Samsaarahetuh |
Pratyadrushtyaatmani Nivasataa Saapaneyaa Prayatnan-
Muktir Praahustadiha Munayo Vaasanaataanavam Yat || 267

Even when the  Truth is known, there remains powerful, beginningless, deep residual impression that one is the doer and the enjoyer, which is the cause of rebirth. That impression has to be carefully removed by living in an inward state of steady
identification with the Self. The annihilation of these impressions, here and now, is called liberation by the sages.


Therefore that perfection is only attained by constant Tapas alone, ceaseless meditation, constant discernment.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: celibacy and complete detachment
« on: March 29, 2012, 11:20:26 PM »
Krishnan, Friends,

I had some more thoughts to share:

Truly speaking, complete knowledge, is free of all kinds malas or doshas, even if one has complete jnana, his jnana will only bloom when it is pure, without any doshas, otherwise, it just like a bud! no matter what, only the fully bloomed flower is beautiful.

Scriptures say, yes, one has to get freed from all these Doshas. But the way is not to hold a knife on ones own nect and closely threaten to get freed from these doshas, it just doesn't happen that way. One has to be kind to oneself, one has to grow up, one has to continue to discern the difference completely, be it any of the doashas, only then the jnana will be complete and ready to bloom. Until then, it is a bud yet, ready to bloom.

The point to say about not bother or worry about past of future is not inaction, or just ignoring the persistance of doshas, but, it is to be easy on oneself. Feel guilty, yet be free of guilt, ie. Recognise and be aware of it, it should prick you, yet, you remain ease with it, so that you are able to forgive yourself and work yourself out. You may fail a hundred times, but there is always a hundred and first time, still. If you have uttered a lie, it should prick you that you have lied, otherwise, it makes no sense. But what is the way, if it concerns another, you can seek forgiveness for your actions, but if it concerns yourself, who can you seek forgiveness from? it is just yourself, say sorry to yourself, and keep trying to improve. Its only because there isn't complete clarity, that doshas still exist, seek to get freed, Pray, discern, with sincerity!

Letting go, doesn't mean, some careless, mindless, thoughtless discarding. You discard, yet you don't. Not to hang on your past commitence and just move on! What to do, if you have commiteed some doshas, once again? Do you sit on your own shoulders and stop the world? What can one do? do you have any other option? Has any body given a secret option? We expect some short cuts somewhere deep within, but there is no short cuts. One has to work out, if we fail we have to re write the exam, but if we do not re write then we will never pass unless we write it! but, while preparing for the re exam, if we allow  our failure to affect our current exam then, again one is bound to fail!

It is accepting oneself as he is, and, stopping not, with our tragedy, but, its a highets maturity, to face the truth, and it is not easy to accept the truth, once one is able to accept as he is, without any bias of morals, half the battle is won. This way, Krishna says in Gita, Uddharet Atmanaatmanm... One is oneself ones friend and foe, therefore, uplift yourself with your wisdom and do not lower yourself with our lower values.

Allow the bud to bloom, do not let it be a bud for ever. By forcing it to bloom immediately, now, will not happen. Allow things to flow as they are. When the fruit is ripe, it frops of its own accord!

The problem is the need to realise immediately now itself., This is the issue.

You are already realised, just that the flower has to bloom. LIke Bheeshma waited for entire 6 months for the Uttaraayana Punya kaala during Mahabharata battle to leave his body. It esoterically represents  working out his Doshas, which still existed in Bheeshma.

Take it easy! Doshas are not somethinbg that can be wiped oout as easy as we erase with an erasor!

It is discernment. It is learning, it is knowing!

Wait, patience!

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Sri Ravi,

Very nice to have you here. Hearty welcome  :) It will surely be fruitful Satsang with you, perhaps, also to keep us all grounded too, at certain levels. We all need that, we all need to complement each other.


Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: celibacy and complete detachment
« on: March 29, 2012, 06:36:44 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

You seem to be caught up often with feel of guilt, often, especially, in this topic, celebacy! Realise you neither have your past or future, Both is not in your hands. So what do you worry about? bury your past, do not bother about future! Only when you hold on to either past which is unreal, and worry about future, which too, is unreal, you are stuck! You have to Let Go and be!

If you do not like your foot prints and your shadow, does it go away, if you run away from it? It keeps coming with you, whereever you go! If you sit still and be, the foot prints would go away, and, if you go enter some shadow, there would be no shadows! You have to run away, not from your footprints, or your shadows, but, your actions and shadows of the past.

Discern the true spirit, mechanical interpretations of celebacy would never help you. Discern and move away from the avidya, and not by trying to fix it!

Devotee: If it is a question of doing something one considers wrong, and thereby saving some one else from a great wrong, should one do it or refrain from doing it?

Bhagavan: What is right and wrong? There is no standard by which to judge something to be right another to be wrong. Opinions differ according to the nature of the individual and according to the surroundings. They are again ideas and nothing more. Do not worry about them, but get rid of thoughts. If you always remain in the right, then right will prevail in the world.

(The devotee was not satisfied with this answer and asked for further elucidation.)

Sri Bhagavan then pointed out that to see wrong in another is one's own wrong. The discrimination between right and wrong is the origin of sin. One's own sin is reflected outside and the individual in ignorance superimposes it on another. The best course for one is to reach the state in which such discrimination does not arise. Do you see wrong or right in your sleep? Be asleep even in the wakeful state, abide as the Self and remain uncontaminated by what goes on around you. Moreover, however much you might advise them, you hearers may not rectify themselves. Be in the right yourself and remain silent. Your silence will have more effect than your words or deeds. That is the development of will power. Then the world becomes the Kingdom of Heaven, which is within you.

- From Talks

A zen student asked: “I have feelings of guilt. What to do?”

The master asked: “If you are thirsty, what do you do?”

The student said: “You drink.”

The master said: “Exactly. What if you feel tired?”

The student said: “You rest.”

The master said: “Exactly. What if you feel guilty?”

The student said: “I don’t know.”

The master said: “Try to always find the fitting answer.”

The student said: “But that doesn’t help me much. I still don’t know what to do about this guilt.”

The master said: “Look within for the fitting answer and it will come naturally.”

A zen student asked: “For years, I’ve been struggling with feelings of guilt. I’ve tried everything. Can you help me?”

The master asked: “Have you tried simply accepting that the feeling exists?”

The student said: “Why would I want to do that? I want to get rid of it. And be free!”

The master suggested: “If you’ve tried everything to get rid of it, maybe it’s time you tried accepting it?”

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / outwardness and inwardness of mind
« on: March 28, 2012, 11:25:27 AM »
बाह्यादृष्टिर्हि नियतं सुखदुःखादि विन्दति ।
नान्तर्मुखतया योगो देहे वेत्ति प्रियाप्रिये ॥

By looking on the outside, we are subjected to the feelings or experiences of pains and pleasures, but the inwardly oriented Yogi, is unconscious of the pain or pleasure of this body.

(Guru Vasishta)

The Truth as declared by the Sages can be summed up as follows, the outwardness of mind is misery and its inwardness is happiness

(Bhagavan Ramana)

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / A generous man free from any kind of attachment
« on: March 28, 2012, 10:21:58 AM »
त्वचं मांसं वीवं यदपि ददुरस्थीनि पृथिवीं
श्रियं रत्नाधीशं त्रिदशतरूमैरावतमपि ।
तदेतत्प्रत्येकं मिलितमपि नालं तुलयितुं
मनस्कारोपितां स्थिरमधुर कल्योक्तिकणिकां ॥

A generous man free from any kind of attachment will gladly part with their 

Skin, Flesh, Life, Backbone (Shouldering burden), Earth, Money, gems, gifted tree, elephants; Either of these individually or collectively will not equal even a fraction of the sweet state of mind in which the donor feels and knows that what he has given is after all nothing!

(Sri Vedanta Desikan)

Salutations to Bhagavan

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: How do I live it ?
« on: March 28, 2012, 09:17:22 AM »
Unless one over comes the mental stupor, and see things for their real worth, and, until it hits one really, a sense of intensity urgency to get freed would not arise.

So long, the fear of death strikes, the fear of the unknown strikes, a sense to get get freed would not be really intense.

So long, one does not realise the transient nature of life, relationship, bondages, luxury, etc..., a sense to get freed would not be really intense.

Mostly we are just existing our lives, with a carefree attitude, of just getting up, eat, go to work, eat, chill out, sleep, again, get up, eat, go to work chill out, sleep, again..... some people also have additionally daily rituals, daily worship, but such a worship for satisfying ones own worldly needs are no use, to this!

The state of affairs out here is that even if one wishes to look into the nature of all that is transient, people advise (and our Elders advise;) in the name of their wisdom and experience of having seen life for so many years) "oh, all these, this is not the age for you :D reserve all these for retirement, when you would have looooot of time, then you can pass time with these, now it is your duty to earn money, lot of money, get married, give us grandchildren, preferably a grand son  :D and make us happy, meanwile, we'l go to various pilgrimages to Kailas Manasarovar and other places" and, we too take it blindly out of blind love, bondage, that they are my elders and wish good for me, so I should make them happy, and, struggle our lives, keep contributing new citizens to the nation till the blessed son is born, some, who are very religious, even want son for themselves, so that, after they die, they would get the deserved Pithru Sthanam, and enjoy the tarpanams performed by our sons, after we die  :D , slog our asses to settle in life, save money, get insurance plans, plan and save investments for our children to study abroad, count our balances in bank, save taxes, build our dream houses, decorate it with Italian marbles, conduct a function, invite everybody and show our new achievement and experience the happiness out of other people jealous of your achievements. Every year, conduct nice homas, do Satyanarayana Puja, visit temples, do archanais, if we have some spiritual friends, then learn some shlokas or mantrams and show off our abilities in remembering Rudram without a book in hand  ;D etc... We do all those nonsense's, simply out of mental stupor, and, eventually become the same 'Elders' as described above to our children, endlessly! Drunken mental stupor! Completely shammed living!

One has to question, why am I here? What for am I here, Why am I working? Why am I earning money? What for am I slogging for? Who are all my loved ones really? What am I to them, and Who are they to me, Really? What is my purpose here?

If one truly asks this to oneself and remain unbiased to himself, then the truth will itself begin to show what transience really is! unless, when one truly discerns the nature of all that is transient, intensity would never arise, utmost sincerity would never arise.

We have to question ourselves, why do I want to realise this Self? Is the Self, realising which give me more bliss than what I am currently enjoying? Would it really give me more joy than what i get from my money? Would it really give me more joy than all the great pleasures of this world? Would it give me more joy than my family, my wife and my children? If one truly discerns this, such a one would not get into some dichotomy of managing the Spiritual life and worldly life. It is only because we have this dichotomy that we are scared sometimes about going too deep in spirituality, because, somewhere, one seems to perceive perhaps that "hmm, but still, the happiness i derive from worldly pleasures seems to give me more happiness..." but we oourseles know intuitively within, that, all these are really not permanent, they are bound to disappear any time every Guru has said the Self is most blissful than just anything else, But if we don't acknowledge and suppress this intuitive feeling and blindly keep doing enquiry, and puja, japa, and go on with our mundane existence, etc... and when death strikes to our loves ones, we pray frantically hoping some miracle would happen, then, it would be a huge disappointment, and we would blame our Gods and Gurus, and continue this games once again, make new bondages all over again! One has to discern further, till, one sorts out the dichotomy of worldly happiness and spiritual happiness. The problem is basically, because, even our spiritual experiences are just transient, and we take our spiritual experiences too, as real, and then, the dichotomy continues. "Oh, is that all to this experience spiritually? hmm, i want to enjoy driving a car, i am having enough of this spiritual experience now, I'll come back later to this, but now I want to go for a drive and eat nice Masala Dosa and have some fun, I want to relax"

We are all sailing in such a dichotomy. We want to believe somehow or the other, that what the Sages have said is true, but, without giving sufficient thought to it, and, we just keep moving from here and there, alternatively, for ages, and, take the dichotomy as the natural state, and lose ourselves in this mental stupor! All Sadhana would flourish and bloom only when one is thoroughly convinced with himself that one is really ready to give up everything for the Self, including himself. Such conviction should result, only then, when we sit for Enquiry, the Self would be easily found and we would be really ready to renounce the worldly attachments and accept the Self with fully bloomed heart without any dichotomies!

Even before having a fixed schedule of trying to meditate everyday, and various other things, one should first discern some basic nature of the world that one sees, one must reflect what is his relation and connection with the world that appears before him. It is not necessary to worry if one gets all answers, but the point is, such a reflection should give raise to various questions, which usually, one would not have answers for.

Firefly, wanting to go near light, goes into the fire and loses itself, due to ignorance. In the same way, the way we are leading our lives so unconsciously, is verily similar to that of a firefly!

One has to wake up from sleep, is the first basic requirement, one has to wake up from this sleep as though a dangerous flood is going to wipe you out. One has to first wake up and take shelter in a safe place, that is the feet of a Guru.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: Letting Go
« on: March 27, 2012, 10:20:30 PM »
how many are still carrying the story of themselves ? ...... lol

Dear Beloved Abstract,

Forgive me for pointing out, but, I am sure you would take in the right spirit  :) you don't laugh at others like that.

"Ignorance laughs at others. Wisdom laughs at itself."

We are all here with the only intention to elevate ourselves by wisdom. Words of encouragement and goodness always brings joy to oneself.

ॐ सहनाभवतु। सह नौ भुनक्तु। सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्विनावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै॥ ॐ शांति : शांतिः शांति :।

Om Sahana Bhavatu, Sahanao Bhunaktu Sahaveeryam Karvaa vahaiTejaswee Naava Dheeta Mastu Ma Vidvishaa vahai
 Om Shanti Shanti Shanti

May He protect both of us. May He nourish both of us. May we both acquire the capacity(to study and understand the scriptures). May our study be brilliant. May we not arguewith each other. Om peace, peace, peace.

Salutations to Bhagavan

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: How do I live it ?
« on: March 27, 2012, 09:22:45 PM »
Dear Udai,

if that is so, then the discussion would be nice  :) . I got confused when you conveyed how to live this truth, how to live the teachings of Bhagavan. Because the very meaning of "Jeevanmukti" is freed from life.

Salutations to Bhagavan

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: How do I live it ?
« on: March 27, 2012, 07:39:16 PM »
Dear Udai,

As you observed very rightfully, we would be playing just the games of mental gymnastics if we have to discuss elaborately of what life is. In the same way, What do we really need to really integrate into what really? Is there anything really to integrate anything?

You quoted our nature is Avyaya, Abhava, Apuna Chit Sukham, now, does the question about inegrating something into something really required?

If it is so that, we have to integrate into something to realise our self, that is that self incomplete in first place, and by our exercise, are we trying to make something complete? Does the quantity of water in ocean increases when we put some water into it? What is really required is proper discernment of Truth alone and all else is actually deviation.

If one really discerns the truth, then he would really not have any need to exercise something really, because he would realise how insignificant he is, before the truth which is already complete. If we are integrating, then it is simply taking water from ocean and then again pouring it in the same ocean. This would be needless exercise.

The point is, if one truly knows Bhagavan's teachings, a need to bring them to my life would not arise. So there is no question of integration.

We always believe that there is spiritual life and worldly life and we want to strike balance between both. Only if this belief exists, one worries about how to have both, but, really speaking are there two different worlds? such as Spiritual and Practical? Are they not just one and the same?

Unless, the basic question is sorted oout, ie. who am I, all other exercise would only offer temporary relief, tempoary quisance of mind.

The need is Dridha Vratha, Strong determination, Tapas, our utmost sincerity in discerning the truth. If it is truly seen, there is no need to exercise anything at all to it, it is complete as it is. So, what is Life, Life is a crude translation of sanskirit word "Janma" and Janma  is Vyadhi, Janma is disease, Jara Vyadhi, Life is temporary, Life is identified with body alone. Only in perspective of body alone 'life' makes sense. But the entire aim of Vedanta is to free ourselves from this identity with body, free ourselves with this body which has life, therefore this body is only life. What is Life, the false Identification with body is only Life, this only is Janma. Such being the case, our wanting to integrate truth with this life, this body is really mistake. It is like Trishanku Swarga and the needless effort of Vishwaitra to create all new heaven for Trishanku who wanted to go to heaven with his body as it is!

How we have to live, is stated in Dharma Shastras and Smritis. How one conducts ones life, etc... but this has nothing to do with Truth, Self. The quest for Self continues, there is no question of integrating it in life. Janma or Life exists, so long one realises his true nature All Dharma Shastras, apply till one remains in delusion, he who is full of desires, which is the reason for his Janma or life is shown the way ahead as Dharma Artha Kama and finally Moksha, after expending all his karmic desires of life or Janma.

We cant live the Truth, we can only Be the Truth

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: Devotion to idols and Buddha
« on: March 27, 2012, 05:45:01 PM »
And Krishnan,

I am not conveying to discard faith in ones Guru. Hold on tightly to the feet of your Guru and at the same time remain unclutched!

Salutations to Bhagavan

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