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Messages - Nagaraj

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Dear Ramana,  :)

Ego and all other souls which you say exists, exists as yourself only, there is nothing 'other' than you. The sweetness of Sugar, the sugar, is also oneself alone.

(How are you able to say, ego still exists, by which light you were able to discern ego exists? there that very moment, it ceased to exist, there is no ego. You say ego exists, simply for the bliss of discernment, which is the light of the Self!)

still, I say, it is not the world that troubles us, it is oneself who troubles oneself. The broken marriages, people damaged by accidents, are all oneself alone. How are you able to experience the pain, when you are not hurt? it is within you.

(When you see the troubles of the world, the troubles of various people, it is your own pain which you experience, not really theirs, and, the natural response of compassion to them is for oneself alone, and, not really to them. The sweetness you experience when you taste sugar is your own, it is not really derived from the Sugar, it was already in you, you are the sugar)

The world is onself, the pains, the pleasures that we see, is our own, the pain that we experience by seeing 'out there' is our own, everything is within oneself. The demand for God to tell us answers is also our own. And the God that may tell us about the world is also oneself. The feel of separation from Self or God is ones own self as separation to experience the separation to experience the bliss of merging again.

All confusions and troubles raise from onself alone, Simply, for oneself to experience the bliss of looking beyond the confusions, beyond the problems, it is just the play of oneself, because, it is blissful for oneself. Oneself plays hide and seek with oneself.

oneself solves the problem for the bliss of solving the problem, so oneself alone creates the problem for the bliss of solving the problmes, just to enjoy the bliss of discernment, again and again and again...

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« on: April 07, 2012, 11:30:05 PM »
Dear cefnbrithdir, Subramanian Sir,

I was very much intrigued with this verse of Adi Shankaracharya. Actually to speak, it is quite clear, that knowing or discerning the truth is not the end in itself. The task is unfinished unless one attains the Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi, constant identity with the truth.

But, thereafter, knowing the truth, we tend to keep discussing about the truth itself, because of some fascination, or because of the unlimited expanse of the truth, or because of the simple and beauty of the truth and so on... but, if we fail to strive to attain the Nishta or 'being that' which is the real goal, and, nit just knowing the truth alon. Tapas, Tapas, ceaseless and tireless Tapas.

Knowning truth is also, just another Siddhi, one can easily get caught in this and keep sharing it, becoming one Guru, guiding people, in utmost sincerity, but if one fails to attain the Nishta, it is still birth after birth...

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Ramana,

I am not talking about you or me, or absolute point of view or relative point of view. that which i discern, i share. this also is discernment, on our way...  :)


I can know what is sweetness without having something sweet in my mouth right now.

This is the point, this alone, the sweetness is in you, only yourself, or only ourselves, and not elsewhere.

The world doesn't trouble us, it is ourselves alone always.

The world, that which we see, the experience of our 5 senses, see, hear, touch, taste, breathe is ours own.

Salutations to Bhagavan

actually it is impossible to perceive the anger or just anything external to yourself, what you see in others is ones own.

What is impossible is verily 'maya' or 'Asat' or 'Unreal'

Suppose, somebody gets angry and is a top rate hypocrite, how does one go about making the 'other' understand? is it the 'other', who has to discern or is it one self who needs to discern?

It is all within oneself.

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Ramana,

There is a subtle pointer that i discern from your expression, in your previous post.

you said:


Can you pray to God if you don't believe He is real? To pray to Shiva all night and in the morning to teach people that God is unreal is hypocracy! It's the same with the ego. "There is no ego! There is no ego, my friends!" and suddenly he who's said this start going angry. That's my point. I don't mean to offend anyone or to prove he/she is wrong but he or she to be honest to the others and most importantly - TO THEMSELVES.

The hypocracy which you or we see in others is actually ourselves, how are you or we able to discern something as hypocracy, unless it is first found in oneself?

it is oneself alone who gets angry at seeing somebody getting angry after somebody who had been talking all along about "There is no ego! There is no ego, my friends!", it is oneself who is agitated, you or we are agitated, but we say, they who talk all nice words get angry in the end!

If you perceive anger of somebody else, it is your own anger, if you perceive love of somebody else, it is your own love. To point somebody their hypocracy, is actually pointing ones own hyporacy. Do you see this?

it is all ourselevs, oneself.

Salutations to Bhagavan

Very subtly discerning, it is a blemish-less understanding that there is really nothing to surrender really. There is really no ego to surrender, it is the seeing as being, the ego or mind, hung its head on shame before the its own self, and remaining in constant awareness of this truth, always. Here, one will see the impossibility of surrendering! What is really ours to surrender? It is a realisation or blemish less discernment that we are by default surrendered already and any effort on our part to surrender is contrary to surrendering.

Which is why the english word 'Surrender' is quite different when compared to Sharanagati (as rightly observed by Sri Ravi elsewhere)

Sharanagati is something like perhaps like the JK lingo, "choiceless and effortless"

Note: But, this discernment, will make sense only to the ripe ones, who have sought the nature of their self very dearly.

Bhagavan says -

All talk of surrender is like stealing sugar from a sugar image of Ganesha and then offering it to the same Ganesha. You say that you offer up your body and soul and all your possessions to God, but were they yours to offer? At best you can say: ‘I wrongly imagined till now that all these, which are Yours, were mine. Now I realise that they are Yours and I shall no longer act as though they were mine.’ And this knowledge that there is nothing but God or the Self, that ‘I’ and ‘mine’ do not exist and that only the Self exists, is Jnana.

I read in newspaper today, quote from Chandogya Upanishad:

Man, in truth, is himself a sacrifice.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General Discussion / Re: Happy Birthday Udai garu
« on: April 05, 2012, 08:29:46 PM »
Dear Udai, Happy 'Birth' - day



i reflect, why is it important to contemplate on manifestation of Brahman, why is it important to contemplate on the reflection of Brahman(if that is what we refer it as) all these are really unnecessary !

We seem to be more interested in our reflection! than ourselves! And we are more stuck in proving that even the reflection also is brahman! But why, for what, to whom? why do we need to prove that even the reflection is also brahman or not? Stay Still with the Self. That is only required. All these, are deviations, is it not? i reflect.

Just go to the root, self, find out the Self, why even bother about the reflections?

Enquire not the reflection, esquire that which is being reflected, staying with this, is only tapas, looking at the reflection is going away from our center

These are small ways, we get deviated. Many such discernment also are not required, we just need to stick to the 'I' always, that is all. if it raises questions, such as, ok, I am there (dont even allow this expression, just remain), but what is all these that I see, it is not the right question, the moment, we say "I am" etc.. we are lost! We are only deviating from the Tapas, deviating from the 'I', deviating from the enquiry.

We ought to give least importance to questions, and stick to the source.

Salutations to Bhagavan

I agree that my explanation is limited. But every explanation is limited because it is dualistic. Even when we say Brahman, we are already in duality.

Thats because, each of you are only communicating with yourselves (including myself now) until and unless, we discern for ourselves, this duality will remain. But we feel, we are communicating with 'others'

Ramana is communicating with Ramana(but imagines himself to be Udai), Udai communicates with Udai (but imagines to be Ramana) similarly to myself, as well.

So, to who are we really raising questions or seeking light from? It is the same source!

Two people cannot meet, because, there is no place really for two! They are already One!

If we enquire, why a need arises to communicate and whom? by whom, to whom, for what? deeply, it will reveal itself!

Salutations to Bhagavan

Namaste All,

Welcome Raviji! I have been reading your posts along with R.Subramanianji's and Nagarajji's in David's blog. I have learnt a lot from the blog.

This forum is also really very helpful, mainly because people are very honest and share their strong and weak points in their spiritual journey. Thanks to all the members for this satsangha.

I am facing a conflict between my worldly life and trying to practice Bhagavan's teachings. I trust Bhagavan when he says this world is just another dreamlike state and it is false identification that is leading to the suffering. I am trying to use the sakshi bhava and question who is affected when faced with a tough situation but sometimes all I am able to do is pray to Bhagavan because I am too upset. In some ways the teachings and small glimpses of peace are making it harder to accept both good and bad situations like before.

I was listening to Nochurji's Kurai Onrum Illai discourse. It is definitely Bhagavan's grace to even listen to such messages. In this discourse, he compares the delayed start of an airplane's engine to a person's heart opening. I can relate to this and recognize the call from the Self or Bhagavan. But there is frustration and some guilt when I get depressed and give in to my old habits and watch some comedy or eat some sweets. Probably mind needs more purification for these vasanas to reduce?

Dear Latha,

your post reminded me Kabir's wonderful doha:

चलति चक्कि देखकर कबीर् दिया कबीरा रोय​
दुइ पाटन के बीच में साबुत बचा न कोए ॥

Your plea or cry or lament is exactly the cry of Kabir, who sees a woman grinding wheat using the grinding stone, and he contemplates himself as the the wheat, being ground, by the heavy stone, without being spared, it is made to crush, forcibly into fine powder, which cannot be segregated eventually. Seeing this, Kabir cries, because of the pain of Samsara,   दिया कबीरा रोय​ in between the sky and the earth दुइ पाटन के बीच, all this takes place, all emotions, such as happiness, sorrow, pleasure, pain, goodness and badness, and so on, all the dualities. The bottom stone is the earth and the sky is the upper grinding stone, and the wheat being us, is being crushed, ie., these dualities is being crushed, it is painful.

But Kabir realises the grinding process, he realises the dualities, he realises the transient nature of all the dualities, you are feeling crushed because, even the idea that there is worldly life and spiritual life separate and distinctive to each other is also a duality, which is being crushed. You are begining to see the transient nature of experiences of worldly life, but also the transient nature of spiritual experiences as well.

Since you have become aware, of the duality of worldly life and spiritual life, you are being finely ground, when the wheat, before it is ground, we can segregate the wheat seeds separately, but when it is fully ground, it is impossible to segregate the finely powdered wheat, the process of coming to awareness is painful. Like the pain experienced by a mother during child birth, is both painful for the mother as well as the child. This also is a process of being born, the process of birth of Jnana is painful, too.

Kabir laments, and, cries too, realising the truth, yet, he has to undergo the drinding, he has to allow himself to be ground, powdered finely!

Till then, pray for strength, clarity, keep with your daily sadhana, hoping and striving to inculcate more and more sincerity to it.

I share with you this very famous, Serenity Prayer:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

Carl Jung, the famous psychiatrist, observed and quoted:

.... there is no coming to consciousness without pain."

In the process, just slowly begin to trust your own Chit Shakti, ie., your own discerning light, your own intelligence. This Chit shakthi from where all discernment originates, and which alone is the sakshi, which alone is the final judge, which gives out judgements without words or thoughts, but only through the silence, Mauna Vaakya, is the one of the names of Goddess found the Lalita Sahasranaamam, Chidagni Kunda Sambhoota -

Chit Agni Kunda Sambhoota - Chit + Agni + Kunda + Sambhuta: Chit : It's the fire of pure consciousness Agni, the inteligence, the discerning source : The fire Kunda : The altar, the reflection, which also done from the same source, Kunda is the Later, where Homa fire is set, which is yourself,  yourself Sambhuta : To be born.

Also, You are the Karta, you are the Discerner, you are the fruits of your discernment as well. in Vishnu Sahasranamam, yajna bhruth yajna kruth yajni: yajna bhuk yajna-sadhanaha:

Yagna brit = He who accepts yagna

Yagna krit = He who doer of Yagna

Yagni = He who is the Yagna itself (everythin, all of above and below)

Yagna bhug = He who enjoys the fruits of Yagna, ie. the clarity that is seen or the discernment that is known is also He himself.

Yagna sadhana = He who puts efforts, Purashkara as a method of attaining Him, that effort also is He himself

So, now, we can discern that the grinding stones are also oneself only, the one pure self, from within, which gets all his power from the one single source, which is God, Self, Atma, Guru.

You are the wheat, you are the top grinding stone and the bottom grinding stones as well, and the handle that is used to rotate the grinding stone is also yourself as the doer, and the purushkara or the effort that is needed to rotate the grinding stone and also the intelligence by which you knew that you have to rotate the handle inorder to grind the wheat also originates from yourself. The finely grounded wheat, that is the Clarity, the Peace, the Samadhi or the Samatva, Shanti, is also yourself.

Keep the Yajna on, add lot of Ghee, add lot of fuel, ie. Sadhana with purity.


Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Ravi,

Your post reminded me about the story of Narada. Narada was actually a celestial being, who was cursed due to some reasons to be born in earth as a son to a maid servant, who was serving at a house, where people were extremely devoted, and carried out various Yajnas and other sacrifices. As a boy, Narada used to see many great yogis come to the house to participate in the yajnas. He used to serve these yogis in some small insignificant ways, as his mother was busy with her chores. And the Yogis too, let the small boy be around.

As a small boy, Narada, who happened to hear the yogis talk and discuss among themselves about Vishnu, or MahaVakyas, or the Truth, They cast some divine spell or impression in the young boy's mind, who later, went to forests and did Tapas, and eventually attained Godhood.

small children even though them may be seen to simply run around in such satsangs, their subconscious mind would be grasping every thing. While we listen through mind, young children listen through heart. Any time jnana could bloom in them.

When we live with Saints or even with the devotees of Saints, it does highest good to us, any time the spark of jnana may be realised. If something is very close to fire, it is highly possible that it could also catch fire.

Arunachala Giri is one such place, where, if, one even just happens to go, it casts its spell which has potential to bloom any time, when it wants!

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / TEACHER vs GURU
« on: March 31, 2012, 08:55:29 AM »
"TEACHER vs GURU A teacher takes responsibility of your growth A Guru makes you responsible for your growth A teacher gives you things you do not have and require A Guru takes away things you have and do not require A teacher answers your questions A Guru questions your answers A teacher helps you get out of the maze A Guru destroys the maze A teacher requires obedience and discipline from the pupil A Guru requires trust and humility from the pupil A teacher clothes you and prepares you for the outer journey A Guru strips you naked and prepares you for the inner journey A teacher is a guide on the path A Guru is a pointer to the way A teacher sends you on the road to success A Guru sends you on the road to freedom A teacher explains the world and its nature to you A Guru explains yourself and your nature to you A teacher makes you understand how to move about in the world A Guru shows you where you stand in relation to the world A teacher gives you knowledge and boosts your ego A Guru takes away your knowledge and punctures your ego A teacher sharpens your mind A Guru opens your mind A teacher shows you the way to prosperity A Guru shows the way to serenity A teacher reaches your mind A Guru touches your soul A teacher gives you knowledge A Guru makes you wise A teacher gives you maturity A Guru returns you to innocence A teacher instructs you on how to solve problems A Guru shows you how to resolve issues A teacher is a systematic thinker A Guru is a lateral thinker A teacher will punish you with a stick A Guru will punish you with compassion A teacher is to pupil what a father is to son A Guru is to pupil what mother is to her child One can always find a teacher But a Guru has to find and accept you A teacher leads you by the hand A Guru leads you by example A teacher instructs you A Guru constructs you When the course is over you are thankful to the teacher When the discourse is over you are grateful to the Guru When a teacher finishes with you, you graduate When a Guru finishes with you, you liberate! My Respects to my Teachers and PranAams to the great gurus of India."

         Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: Bhavamukha
« on: March 30, 2012, 08:56:33 PM »
Dear Jyoti,

Bhagavan is calling you, extending his hands to you, only you(we) fail to take notice of it, and, stay put with our mind with own agenda. The mind, says, to Bhagavan who is extending his hands (unconsciously  ;) ) Bhagavan, please wait for some time, i am doing some important analyses. I will sort this out and come to you!

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Prashant,

One ought to learn the Bhastrika, Ujjayi and Nadi Shuddhi Pranayamas - these are very basic and extremely powerful in balancing the mind and body complexities.

If one can also learn Suryanamaskar along with the above pranayamas, it is best.

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Ramana,

The idea that the Self projects the mind deluding itself of its being is incorrect. The Self is never deluded.

These are just words. Even Bhagavan Ramana has expressed Himself this way - how jiva is the Self trying to liberate Itself. I share your opinion - the Self cannot be deluded or illuminated or whatever.

This is a simple discernment, let me share my thoughts with you. That the Self is never deluded is the most simplest discernment. How are you able to state that ignorance is cause for knowledge of that ignorance itself? How are you aware of your own ignorance, without becoming aware of the contradiction? If any way, ignorance could delude the Self, then who is stating all these statements such as "These are just words", and so on? How does anything delude the knower, that is yourself? How can you call it as delusion, when you are yourself, the knower is really not deluded?

Its like this, take for instance, a person with cataract problem. Does it make any sense to say that there is cataract is blurring your vision? At all times, the eyesight is ever unimpaired. The clouds may hide the sun, but the sun is ever aware of the clouds. Does it make any sense to say that the Sun has disappeared? when it is behind the clouds? During the waxing and waning phases of moon, can we say that the moon is really appearing and disappearing? the Moon is as it is, without any change!

It is from that same identification with your Self, you are able to state facts such as "These are just words" etc...

You are yourself the Rope and Snake as well. Even though it is a beautiful jewelry with amazing craft, it is just Gold. Gold in the manifestation of a jewelry. Now what is ignorance in this context is forgetfulness of the Gold and knowing the piece as a ring or a necklace. This is all to it. So, if you know that the mind, thoughts, to be just the manifestation of the Self, then the delusion is no more. You know thought, mind like a jewelry, but you are aware that it is Gold, in the end.

Yes, but the jewelry exists as the Self. That's my point. You are the Gold but you are the jewelry also.

What is the confusion here, when you know clearly that the jewelry exists as the self? you now know the you are the Gold and the jewelry as well!

Is jewelry any way different from Gold?


Salutations to Bhagavan

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