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Messages - Nagaraj

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General topics / Re: This moment
« on: April 10, 2012, 12:20:50 PM »
There is no ending...

'just being' is as unending as the 'moment'

General topics / Re: This moment
« on: April 10, 2012, 12:06:05 PM »
The Self is nothing to keep looking at, i wonder what Bhagavan was looking at, in the vastness of what is.

General topics / Re: This moment
« on: April 10, 2012, 12:04:06 PM »
Dear Udai,

Its actually further to that, what is it to be awake? what do you have to do, when you are awake? We have read, that there would be nothing to do, etc... and this is vaguely described as 'just being' or 'summa iruthal' but what do we really mean by this?

There is nothing to do, yet, there is nothing, not to do as well.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: This moment
« on: April 10, 2012, 11:48:52 AM »
Dear Udai, Friends,

I would like to revive this discussion. I would like to stress upon the massiveness of what i shared in my original post here about this moment. Friends, we actually have got lost in the moment, when you realise, when you are awake, you see the massiveness of the moment, and the unending-ness of the moment.

What do we really mean when we say 'Just be' or 'Summa iru'

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Sri Ravi,

:) what a way to begin the day, please keep posting Bharathiyar poems as and when you can. What fire in his words! What energy in his words.

I just wished he lived some more years :)

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: This moment
« on: April 09, 2012, 07:53:18 PM »
dear i,

This one is from Dry Salvages, where he contemplates on Krishna, simply wonderful -

(It requires, sure, steady, and slow reading. quite deep and profound actually, am still assimilating, as i post here)

I sometimes wonder if that is what Krishna meant-
Among other things - or one way of putting the same thing:
That the future is a faded song, a Royal Rose or a lavender spray
Of wistful regret for those who are not yet here to regret,
Pressed between yellow leaves of a book that has never been opened.
And the way up is the way down, the way forward is the way back.
You cannot face it steadily, but this thing is sure,
That time is no healer: the patient is no longer here.
When the train starts, and the passengers are settled
To fruit, periodicals and business letters
(And those who saw them off have left the platform)
Their faces relax from grief into relief,
To the sleepy rhythm of a hundred hours.
Fare forward, travellers! not escaping from the past
Into different lives, or into any future;
You are not the same people who left that station
Or who will arrive at any terminus,
While the narrowing rails slide together behind you;
Watching the furrow that widens behind you,
You shall not think "the past is finished"
Or "the future is before us".
At nightfall, in the rigging and the aerial,
Is a voice descanting (though not to the ear,
The murmuring shell of time, and not in any language)
"Fare forward, you who think that you are voyaging;
You are not those who saw the harbour
Receding, or those who will disembark.
Here between the hither and the farther shore
While time is withdrawn, consider the future
And the past with an equal mind.
At the moment which is not of action or inaction
You can receive this: 'on whatever sphere of being
The mind of a man may be intent
At the time of death' - that is the one action
(And the time of death is every moment)
Which shall fructify in the lives of others:
And do not think of the fruit of action.
Fare forward.
                        O voyagers, O seamen,
You who came to port, and you whose bodies
Will suffer the trial and judgement of the sea,
Or whatever event, this is your real destination."
So Krishna, as when he admonished Arjuna
On the field of battle.
                                            Not fare well,
But fare forward, voyagers.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: This moment
« on: April 09, 2012, 07:41:11 PM »
Dear i,

on a further reading of TS Elliot, i found this wonderful one, again from 'four quartets' -

At the still point of the turning world. Neither flesh nor fleshless;
Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,
But neither arrest nor movement. And do not call it fixity,
Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards,
Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point,
There would be no dance, and there is only the dance.
I can only say, there we have been: but I cannot say where.
And I cannot say, how long, for that is to place it in time.
The inner freedom from the practical desire,
The release from action and suffering, release from the inner
And the outer compulsion, yet surrounded
By a grace of sense, a white light still and moving,
Erhebung without motion, concentration
Without elimination, both a new world
And the old made explicit, understood
In the completion of its partial ecstasy,
The resolution of its partial horror.
Yet the enchainment of past and future
Woven in the weakness of the changing body,
Protects mankind from heaven and damnation
Which flesh cannot endure.
                                                    Time past and time future
Allow but a little consciousness.
To be conscious is not to be in time
But only in time can the moment in the rose-garden,
The moment in the arbour where the rain beat,
The moment in the draughty church at smokefall
Be remembered; involved with past and future.
Only through time time is conquered.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: This moment
« on: April 09, 2012, 07:24:18 PM »
Dear cefnbrithdir, Subramanian Sir,

It took a while to get a grasp of the wonderful words of Eliot, quoted by yourselves.

It is certain, that Eliot was a Seer !

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / This moment
« on: April 09, 2012, 12:27:32 PM »
Dear self,

The self is as ordinary as, ordinary can get. The sheer simplicity of it is baffling.

How to pass this moment? this moment seems like eternity to me. I do not know how to pass this moment now. I move from one point to another in an effort to some how pass of this moment.

The sheer simplicity of Summa Iruthal (just being) is most baffling! What is it really to be summa iruthal?

Even now, I am just trying to pass of this moment by writing, simultaneoiusly striving to discern the truth of the moment. Instead of passing off the moment in any other un wanted things, I am trying to channelise my wavering energy here, by these expressions. Each word being mentioned here is quite challenging, as, it is, as if, I am bringing all energies from all corners in order to pass this moment, now, by these very words. I realise this way is only transient, it can't be repeated to eternity. I realise a need to realise a way by which i could pass of the moment without really passing the moment.

What else I could think about? I could think about some sadhanas, like, I could do some nama japam, i could contemplate on the self, i could write some articles in my blog, i could respond or open a new post in some forums that i participate, i could call somebody and speak to them, i could look at the leaves and admire the sheer beauty of the nature, the birds, the trees, the feel of the breeze, the touch of the water, the breath of the air, the smell of divinity, the feel of hot or cold, do something, browse internet, read worldly articles, watch movie, watch news, watch sports, play sports,....... but for how long? why are we unable to pass of this moment? i look at the sky in between the trees and wonder without any answers.

by this time, when I exercise my energies carefully in channelising and with these discernments, i am engulfed with tremendous peace, I am at peace now, but still, this doesn't pass of the moment, the moment is still unfilled, the moment is a bottomless pit. Peace comes at giving up!

I send this flower to the universe...

General topics / Re: Giving up body consciousness
« on: April 09, 2012, 07:49:25 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

enlightening bit of information of Sri Ramakrishna. Through the conversations that your post of the Master, I am seeing the sameness in Him and Bhagavan. Also, Sri Ramakrishna reminds me of Sri Rama. Sri Ramakrishna was more like Rama, who was a brahma jnani but with all mixed emotions... Rama cried bitterly at the loss of Sita, felt deeply saddened at her step mother sending her to forest and was extremely disturbed at the entire scenario where by his father Dasaratha died, yet, Rama baffled even Bharadwaja Muni, who, thought Rama is such an ideal brahma swaroopam, and he used to enjoy his presence, but immediately when he used to feel thus, Rama cried venting his feelings to Bharadwaja Muni... feeling extremely confused, who is this person, Rama, is he just an ordinary man or a man of highest realisation, he is baffling me, and he goes to Valmiki to seek clarity, and this is when Valmiki narrates the Maha Ramayana - Vasishtam to him!

Yes, i would like to hear more about Sri Totapuri and Sri Ramakrishna, the instance where Totapuri makes Ramakrishna attain Nirvikalpa Samadhi is an amazing story indeed. I could not find an accurate article regarding this.

These people, i say, the ones such as Sri Bhagavan and Sri Ramakrishna, they stupefy us, like the verse from Akshara Mana Malai -

With some magic powder, you stupefied me, robbed me of
my jiva-hood and revealed instead your Siva-hood. (73)

dangerously gracious  :) once if ones falls to them, he is lost, for ever!

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Sri Ravi, Subramanian Sir,

I share the same views, across religions.

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Ravi,

nice story of Papa Ramdas, also, Papa acknowledged himself as a visishtadvaitin:

Papa: Ramdas is not a pure advaitin. He believes in the co-existence of dvaita and advaita. The jivanmukta retains a higher subtle individuality; he moves about and acts in the world realising that he and God are one. Ramdas in this body is active in doing things. Whatever he may do, he is at the same time conscious that he is the eternal and all-pervading Reality. So, in that state there is separation and unity simultaneously.

I had raised a topic on this subject some time back -----> Click Here <-----

We are caught in this dilemma, rather unconsciously, friends, I am never condemning or speaking less about bhakthi any where, infact, if you look at my past posts, you could very well see a equal mix of bhakti and jnana, together. I firmly believe, non difference between both bhakthi and jnana.

Also, when Bhagavan said Bhakthi is Jnana Mathe, generally, the translation in english is as follows: "Bhakthi is the mother of Jnana" but to me, it is thus: "Bhakthi is Mother Jnana herself" and there is subtly a deep difference, in the way one looks at it.

This has been an age old debate, especially, between the Visishtadvaitins and Advaitins, both being at logger heads for over centuries, one trying to prove superiority over the other.

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Ramana,

At no time, i have said anywhere, that all else is meaningless. This i would like to correct.

Suppose, some person is scared of a Ghost pole, and because of fear towards ghost, refuses to go near it, what do you do? do we leave the person right where he is, for his belief is true to that moment? But, for such a person, initially, if somebody says, no it is not a ghost, ghost is unreal, it is just an ordinary pole, which itself seemed like a host, then it surely would seem extreme, for it would take time for the person to really see that it is not ghost and just an ordinary pole.

In the same way, I am not trying to thrust anything to you, it is certainly not my intention, i am just saying what is limited to my experience, and, if it may seem what i am conveying is like the ultimate truth, it is not wrong or fault, for i have also posted a post on a particular verse of Adi Shankaracharya, where he has said that just knowing the truth is not the end, but one has to constantly remain in meditation with it, constantly remain in identity with the truth that one has seen.

But even before this, it is important to 'know' that everything is oneself, that everything has really sprung from oneself, and oneself alone is the cause and effect of everything, but this is just one discernment, only when this is clear, ONE CAN TRULY MEDITATE, for until this is clear, that everything is just oneself, one will keep speculating, this or that, not like this, not like that, etc...

When you say, or we all say, that i'd rather try to help you, i too share the same belief, but with the sweetness of a discernment that by helping 'others' we are actually helping yourself, oneself alone, and that, that, we are helping others is only the real illusion. :)

I believe, if we, each one of us allow ourselves to be helped, unconditionally, it will just flow like the soft moving river.

To tell the truth itself is the Highest help to oneself (to others)

Sometimes, we get caught in the spiritual terms as they become a cliche, So, no matter, what i say, or for that matter, anybody, what ever they say, ultimately is going to be a cliche, that which is over used, unfortunately, truth is the same, and truth is not different.

:) best wishes, ahead.

Salutations to Bhagavan


You say that everything come from oneself but do you know this self? The self you are talking about is the ego. And Lord Ramana has said many times that when the ego, "I"-thought "exists" then all other things "exist". Bhaktas say at the final "Only the Lord exists", jnanis "All is Brahman", Lord Ramana says "Everything is the Self. The Self alone exists". They all talk about the Reality but what you point to is the ego. You say that one notion of the ego is more true than other. I humbly disagree. The purpose of all religions and philosophical systems is one - to quieten the mind and to help of the person to merge it with its Source.

Dear Ramana,

you have no possibility of 'knowing' the self that I am talking about? can you? And, that what i point to is the ego, is your understanding, do you see this?

At all times, there is oneself, and there is no possibility of yourself knowing, what i am really pointing towards, it is you, in the end who defines me, it is your own understanding, that defines me, it is yourself, that even understands, defines, what somebody has to convey, i am, too, yourself!

Basically, when you or each one of us, either agree or disagree, we are only agreeing or disagreeing with ourselves alone!


Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Giving up body consciousness
« on: April 08, 2012, 12:41:30 PM »
Dear cefnbrithdir,

You aroused in me the latent desire to read the teachings of Sri Siddharameshwar Maharaj, i had read about Sri Maharaj, some time back, but never pursued with it, and, since your mention about Sri Maharaj on a couple of occasions, i began to read about him. Here is one nice  article, of his,

Leaving behind the mis-identification with the body, followed by dispassion from worldly life, should be obtained with the aid of the body, mind, and speech. By constantly thinking of the Self, the passionate attachment for worldly life begins to fade, and one's "True Nature" (Swaroopa) comes into focus and is realized. The mind then gives up the ego and forgets the body.

When the mind is directed towards the Self, it discovers that the Self is omnipresent. Aspirants who want to experience the Self, are required to give up any thought of the body and focus exclusively on the Self. Body consciousness must be vanquished, and then the aspirant is left with no other motives, or impulses. Such a person may carry out their daily routine, but their actions do not reveal bodily awareness. While going through their bodily actions and routines, they never consider themselves to be the doer.

Just as a dry leaf is easily blown away by the wind, body consciousness should also be blown away. One should give up being obsessed with the body. Only then, does one discover one’s true Self. We can elevate ourselves, and bring about our own upliftment, but while we remain engrossed solely in worldly affairs, it is we ourselves, who are responsible for our own sorry state. Procrastination is a common habit that should be discarded. If one always puts off giving up body consciousness until tomorrow, it will never be done at all. Tomorrow never comes. In this way, we bring about our own destruction. If you have ever attempted to sit on your own shadow, you see that the moment you try to do so, your shadow disappears. In a similar manner, the moment you overcome body consciousness, illusion is destroyed.

A Dnyani understands and experiences that the body is untrue. Even if a Dnyani says "I have done this, I have done that," he remains unaffected by any outcome, as his body identification no longer exists. He has understood everything. His ego is wiped out, and he is unaffected by pride. Body consciousness influences one's behavior, so as one increasingly identifies with body consciousness, the result is that one becomes swollen with pride. One should investigate and find out how much body consciousness and how much consciousness of the Self one possesses, and in what proportion.

Shri Siddharameshwar Maharaj - From a talk on "Eknathi Bhagwat" given on September 25, 1933

Salutations to Bhagavan

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