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Messages - Nagaraj

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Dear Subramanian Sir, Udai,

Sri Bhagavan says in Talks No. 523:

1. Why do passions arise? Because of likes and dislikes towards the objects seen.

2. Again, what is the cause of the passions? Desire to be happy or enjoy pleasure. Why does the desire for happiness arise?

3. Whereas the happiness arising from other
objects are external and thus liable to be lost. Therefore it cannot be permanent and so it is not worth seeking.

a) If anyone tries remaining aware of the Self while watching a movie, one would immediately recognize that the amount of interest in the movie is indirectly proportional to the time we actually remain aware of the Self.

c) I practise regularly remaining established in "Aham Asmi", "I AM" --- we can do it during the day, during the work, or during any activity... just a small pause and remain established as self as "I AM"! that is like smearing the mind with oil again and again.

d) Then there is an indirect way. Drop asha, Hope. Say "No where to go, nothing to do". be like an empty room, the doors of the room are the sense organs and this body. The space within is awareness. and there should be no one else inbetween. Thus, while interacting, doign things etc... you remain as an empty room... whenever there appears a fellow inbetween  and says "i like this, i dont like this or i want this"... resolve him into the awareness which is the space of the room and remain as awareness. this can be practised, as it means having no agenda. "no where to go, nothing to do". just remain. and while interacting , no agenda. relaxed... just a holliday.

Fundamentally, i discern from here, that the root of these issues is because,

We either
  • Are not yet able to realise the Atmic bliss
  • Are able to directly realise the bliss in external objects
It is sure, what ever we are exerting ourselves for, it is only for the bliss, happiness. For Now, that the Atmic bliss, is our real nature, that Atmic bliss is only the everlasting bliss, Atma is our real nature, etc... are only golden words of promise to us (at least as of now) but, we have not yet realised this truth. We strongly believe in this, only because we have faith in our Guru, in our scriptures. We implicitly believe that realisation of our atmic nature is our true goal. But, on the contrary, we seem to experience momentary happiness in our day to day affairs, in the objects external to ourselves, whereas, we are not yet able to experience the atmic bliss as lovingly shared by Guru's and the scriptures.

One one hand, there is faith, and, on the other hand, we have direct experience of external objects. Let us keep aside the revelations of the Sages, like, Atma is ever here, ever shining, ever blissful , etc... but, it is certain that we are experiencing the atmic bliss as well, but unconsciously, where as we experience the external objects consciously. I am able to say that we are experiencing the atmic bliss also just because of the fact that, we do remain still, without any external objects, in happiness. Those moments when we just are, without doing anything, simply sitting, simply being, is surely the experience of Atmic bliss as it is thoroughly independent, without the support of any external aid, such as objects, people, relationship, past happy memory, etc... it is thoroughly free of just anything.

Now, as i write here, i am thoroughly happy at this recognition of the atmic bliss, and it simply gives me immense happiness is expressing myself here, perhaps, not even to share with anybody. But, I am free at the moment, free from my duties, I am momentarily free from my duties. Now, in a while, the duties would present themselves to me, and, the intensity of this recognition would usually, slowly begin to fade away, as the responsibilities are quite demanding. I realise, that no matter, what duties, we have to slowly and slowly, reduce our responsibilities to the barest minimum. Because these responsibilities should not supersede the responsibility of remaining in constant recognition with atma. The more we recognise in recognition with the atma, the lesser one would want to experience the momentary happiness that which comes with cost, which is effort. Where as the Atmic bliss is free ;) readily available, and requires no effort on our part, yet, we seem to opt for the latter, external objects.

I am urged to ask myself, how do i know that i am experiencing myself, ie. i am enjoying the recognition of atmic bliss? Now, perhaps, these questions are being asked by each one of us, without words or thoughts perhaps. It could be so that we are wanting something higher or greater than ourselves to affirm our real nature to us. To put it briefly, we are wanting to hear from something external to ourselves to affirm ourselves, our recognition. Do we want to be told, yes what you are experiencing is Atmic bliss. This perhaps arises, only due to the doubt that we could perhaps be deluding ourselves, by imagining it to be atmic bliss, where as it could even be just, yet another external momentary happiness.

Here, Now, Sages have quoted some clues in helping us to affirm if our experience is truly atmic bliss or not. They have expressed as follows - Swayam Prakasaham - Self Effulgent, meaning, it is absolutely independent, as observed before, this experience of bliss is totally free of objects, memory, people, thoughts. Then, we have the Mahavakyas -

Tat Tvam Asi - That Thou Art, here, this helps me to see, that, that recognition of Atmic bliss is itself I am, I am that recognition, I am that atma.

Aham Brahmasmi - if we carefully, see this, the real translation goes thus - Aham - I, Brahma - Atma, Asmi - am --> I am Brahman - So, here that recognition, itself should know, that it is that, it is not going to declare in words or thoughts, but intuitively, the recognition knows, it knows as itself, Swayam Prakasha iti. It reveals itself through its own light. We are able to see the sun through its own light.

Ayam Atma Brahma - Ayam - this, Atma - itself, Brahma - That - This myself is that. That recognition, that we are talking about itself, reveals itself as That. It knows.

Prajnanam Brahma - Prajna - Self Knowing, the ideal word for Prajna is Ulladu, what Bhagavan has used in tamil. Self knows. The recognition itself knows.

These are some of the clues, the Sages have revealed. There are many such clues, as revealed by the Sages, we could discuss even more.

Knowing itself is Brahman, knowing fully thorougly well, without any doshas, would destroy all our predispositions towards external objects.

If we experience the atmic bliss thoroughly, then through the recognition itself, one will begin to drop the dependence on external objects for happiness. It is only because, we are not recognition the bliss of atma, that we look towards the external objects for happiness. Atmic bliss is ever present, only we fail to put our attention on it. Again, putting attention is verily recognition. Recognition is constant, like,

ajya-dhärayä srotasä samam
sarala cintanaà viralataù param

Like an unbroken flow of oil or a stream of water, continuous meditation is better than that which is interrupted.

The recognition has to be un interrupted. This recognition is not something like DVD player, that we can pause for some time and then resume it from that very point. Untill our recognition of the atmic bliss is stronger ie. NISHTA till then, we ought to be very very careful. The daily responsibilities and duties are the villains, which try to dissuade you from atmic bliss and if we get lost in the dynamics of performing our duties, then we will forget that recognition and once again go back to where we started from. We would have forgotten and began to think that the experience of happiness through external aids is contending, and we would continue to strive and put immense efforts in order to experience the happiness again and again, because, here its like a battery, once the power is over the batter is of no use, you either need to re charge it or you need to buy another battery.

Recognition is important and constantly remaining in recognition is even more important.

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Udai,

vasanas eventually dissolve when we keep the mind stilled for a long time.
We need to practise regular meditation , self inquiry and japa
and also listen to some scriptures every day.
this has to be inculcated and we have to include all this in our lives.
thats the way to eventually calm the vasanas and dissolve them.
As even we need regualr exercise for the body we need regular meditation and japa for the mind and also listening to the vedanta.

None of these can be avoided. until one is effortlessly established as Self.

Perhaps in our case, it is more like, watching a movie in a theater and trying to keep ourselves still  :D

My point of observation is that, in our case, we ought to be dynamically still, that is, keep doing our swadharma and remain still, ie. focused on self. For instance, which ever direction we see, it is only Vasana temptations in all sides.

At your work place, its the gossip of what people talk, when you go out, some tasty eatery, very big inviting pictures, in the roads, some times the vehicles themselves become temptations, people and their behavior, triggers anger, big big billboards, advertisements, television, people, the way people dress.

In our case, we are directly involved with objects that trigger passions. We are more closer to these objects. Now, the question of concern is that, if we try to remain focused in Self, the duty there is affected, certainly, you want to avoid these objects that trigger your vasanas.

What we are trying to do, is that, we want to do meditation while watching a movie in theater! It is still possible to focus on Self, but, the point is, when we focus on self, we will not watch movie, in the same way, our day to day activities are getting affected, if we truly and sincerely practice focusing on Self.

Hence, all our attempts are filing miserably.

What I assimilated from Bhagavan words is that, these focusing on Self, ain't going to help really. Knowledge alone relieves

True nature of all vasanas need to be discerned. Why are we attracted to various objects. What is there in those objects that attracts us?

Generally, we only lament, oh, am so much bound by vasanas, but we don't enquire , why are we bound by vasanas. Unless this is discerned, no matter how much tapas, meditation, concentration, effort, all are bound to fail, verily like that of Vishwamitra.

we can discuss further.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: April 12, 2012, 07:50:36 AM »
The Divine Mother asked Sri Ramakrishna not to be lost in the featureless Absolute but to
remain in bhavamukha, on the threshold of relative consciousness, the border line between
the Absolute and the Relative

Dear Sri Ravi,

I am not able to grasp this, why is it meant as being lost in the featureless Absolute? Could there be any losing at any time?

Thank you,

Salutations to Bhagavan

Question : What is the best way of dealing with desires and vasanas with a view to getting rid of them - satisfying them or suppressing them?

Ramana Maharshi : If a desire can be got rid of by satisfying it, there will be no harm in satisfying such a desire. But desires generally are not eradicated by satisfaction. Trying to root them out that way is like trying to quench a fire by pouring inflammable spirits on it. At the same time, the proper remedy is not forcible suppression, since such repression is bound to react sooner or later into a forceful surging up of desires with undesirable consequences.

The proper way to get rid of a desire is to find out `Who gets the desire? What is its source?' When this is found, the desire is rooted out and it will never again emerge or grow. Small desires such as the desire to eat, drink, sleep and attend to calls of nature, though these may also be classed among desires, you can safely satisfy.

They will not implant vasanas in your mind, necessitating further birth. Those activities are just necessary to carry on life and are not likely to develop or leave behind vasanas or tendencies. As a general rule, therefore, there is no harm in satisfying a desire where the satisfaction will not lead to further desires by creating vasanas in the mind.

Salutations to Bhagavan

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / on overcoming Passions
« on: April 12, 2012, 07:29:39 AM »
Find their root and then it will be easy. (Later) What are the passions? Kama (lust), krodha (anger), etc. Why do they arise? Because of likes and dislikes towards the objects seen. How do the objects project themselves in your view? Because of your avidya, i.e., ignorance. Ignorance of what? Of the Self. Thus, if you find the Self and abide therein there will be no trouble owing to the passions.

(Later) Again, what is the cause of the passions? Desire to be happy or enjoy pleasure. Why does the desire for happiness arise? Because your nature is happiness itself and it is natural that you come into your own. This happiness is not found anywhere besides the Self.

Do not look for it elsewhere. But seek the Self and abide therein. Still again, that happiness which is natural is simply re-discovered, so it cannot be lost. Whereas the happiness arising from other objects are external and thus liable to be lost. Therefore it cannot be permanent and so it is not worth seeking. Moreover craving for pleasures should not be encouraged.

One cannot put out burning fire by pouring petrol over it. An attempt to satisfy your craving for the time being, so that the passion may later be suppressed, is simply foolish.There are, no doubt, other methods for the suppression of passion. They are (1) regulated food, (2) fasting, (3) yoga practice, (4) medicines. But their effects are transitory. The passions reappear with greater force as soon as the check is removed. The only way to overcome them is to eradicate them. That is done by finding their source as stated above.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: This moment
« on: April 11, 2012, 10:18:44 AM »
In the process, i came to the following discernment -

The demand to wonder how to pass the moment has arisen from the illusory moment of the next. It flashed to me that the next moment never exists!

Subtly, i discern that the question of how to pass the moment is actually about how to pass the next moment, for this moment is already over, by the time i contemplate, the moment is yet, gone by, this raises a very fundamental question or discernment,

The past moment is not, the next moment is not, now, is there, really, a present moment? It feels, as though, there is no present moment at all, to pass!

Therefore, what is this fire, or urge, or energy, that is trying to bubble out? By the time i observe this fire, urge, energy, bubbling, it is past, already.

What we witness, is already past and over! There is no witnessing the present moment.

What is this question about passing the moment?


Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: This moment
« on: April 11, 2012, 10:07:51 AM »
"On one occasion Ma-tsu and Po-chang were out for a walk, when they saw some wild geese flying past.
"What are they?" asked Ma-tsu.
"They're wild geese," said Po-chang.
"Where are they going?" demanded Ma-tsu.
Po-chang replied, "They're already flown away."
Suddenly Ma-tsu grabbed Po-chang by the nose and twisted it so that he cried out in pain.
"How," shouted Ma-tsu, "could they ever have flown away?"
This was the moment of Po-chang's awakening."

(Zen thoughts)

Its enlightening, but the moment still remains...

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear i,

.... And God fulfils Himself in many ways,
 Lest one good custom should corrupt the world.

Alfred Tennyson

Salutations to Bhagavan

General Discussion / Re: Remembering Maha maya
« on: April 11, 2012, 09:30:20 AM »
Dear Sanjaya_ganesh

What a song to remember this morning! of Sadasiva Brahmendra, its one of my favorites:

sarvam brahmamayam rE rE

kim vacanIyam kima vacanIyam kim racanIyam kima racanIyam

kim paThanIyam kima paThanIyam kim bhajanIyam kima bhajanIyam

kim bOddhavyam kima bOddhavyam kim bhOktavyam kima bhOktavyam

sarvatra sadA hamsa dhyAnam kArtavyam bhO mukti nidAnam

What is to speak of IT, what not to speak of IT? What is to do with IT, what is to not do with IT? what is to be taught about IT, what is not to be taught about IT? What is to recite about IT, what is not to recite about IT? what is to experience about IT, what is not an experience about IT? always, immerse yourself in THAT meditation, THAT itself would reveal itself!

The short message of this song is do not enter into arguments and discussions as to what is right and what is wrong; all that would be meaningless and unnecessary. What is meaningful is 'Pray HIM' and 'Merge in HIM"

Salutations to Bhagavan

Dear Friends,

Thirumoolar revealed ages ago in his Thirumandiram, Anbe Sivam (love or compassion, itself is Sivam)

When we try to describe this love, it is verily an attempt to describe the attribute-less, the Brahman, the Atmam, which is beyond the grasp of mind.

Another name for Atma, Self, is love or compassion.

What is conveyed by Ananda in Sat Chit Ananda, is this very love, or, compassion.

When we read books about Bhagavan or Ramakrishna, immersed in bliss, it is immersed in this Anandam, this love, perennial   flow. I, once again, reflect here, with these thoughts, about the unlimitedness of the moment.

So long we are limited to the moment, the love, the compassion, that we reflect would be limited before the massiveness or the unlimited ness of the moment or the Self. So long the difference between the moment and me exists, so long difference exists.

But, it is frightening (perhaps?) to jump into the moment, like Sri Ravi mentioned elsewhere, are we (salt) willing to jump into the ocean and get lost? for ever? are we truly ready to become the ocean? the moment? the Self? the love? the compassion? i reflect in wonder....

Anbe Sivam

General topics / Re: Original messages of Maharihsee in Tamil Required
« on: April 11, 2012, 08:35:21 AM »
Dear Sir,

Bhagavan is a mystery beyond the grasp of our minds...

The lives of Bhagavan and the likes, is such an injustice to us ordinary mortals  :D stars run around our heads, even thinking about them!


Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: This moment
« on: April 11, 2012, 08:31:50 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

I am very much in line with your observation, Summa Iruthal or just being is a samadhi sthithi, and the hallmark is to attain sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi.

At themoment, when we all say "summa iru" or "just be" it is only aspiration, and really not yet being that, hence, the massiveness of this moment is felt tremendously, it is ever unending, unlimited.

All creation, observation, ideas, etc... everything happens only to pass of this moment, those are ways, by which, one, currently being unable to pass of this moment, tries to pass of the moment, but in vain!

The energy of this moment is many many nuclear bombs put together. I wonder...

Through this moment, as of now, many many yugas have passed, many janmams, birth have passed, being witnessed many creations, pralayas, and what not? But the moment still is....

Bhagavan, quoted Arunagirinathar, Summa Irunthu Pazhagu - "practice just being"

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: Original messages of Maharihsee in Tamil Required
« on: April 10, 2012, 05:57:52 PM »
Dear Subramanian Sir,

you are most welcome sir, it was my pleasure. Here is the tamil translation, as well, of the 1896 note of Bhagavan:

"நான் என் தகப்பனாரைத்
தேடிக்கொண்டு அவருடைய உத்தரவின்படி இவ்விடத்தை விட்டுக் கிளம்பிவிட்டேன்.
இது நல்ல காரியத்தில் தான் பிரவேசித்திருக்கிறது. ஆகையால் இந்தக்காரியத்திற்கு
ஒருவரும் விசனப் படவேண்டாம். இதைப் பார்ப்பதற்காகப் பணச்செலவும் செய்ய
வேனாம். உன் சம்பளத்தை இன்னும் செலுத்தவில்லை. ரூ. இரண்டு இதோடுகூட

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: Original messages of Maharihsee in Tamil Required
« on: April 10, 2012, 03:54:45 PM »
Here is the original message of Bhagavan to his mother in Tamil -

அவரவர் பிரரப்தப் பிரகாரம் அதற்கானவன் ஆங்காங்கு இருந்து ஆட்டுவிப்பன். என்றும் நடவாதது என் முயற்சிக்கினும் நடவாது; நடப்பது என்ன தடை செய்யினும் நில்லாது. இதுவே திண்ணம். ஆதலின் மௌனமாயிருக்கை நன்று.

Salutations to Bhagavan

General topics / Re: Original messages of Maharihsee in Tamil Required
« on: April 10, 2012, 03:38:29 PM »
Dear Krishnan, Subramanian Sir,

here is the hand written note of Bhagavan in 1896 -

“I have, in search of my Father and in obedience to his command, started from here. THIS is only embarking on a virtuous enterprise. Therefore none need grieve over THIS affair. To trace THIS out, no money need be spent.

Your college fee has not been paid. Rupees two are enclosed herewith.

       Thus ___________________

I will post Bhagavan's message to his mother in some time, as i need to type it out.

Regarding, the final message of Bhagavan, i believe, Bhagavan never gave any final message, as he never believed so in finality, all i remember is his most famous quote - "where can I go? I am here" But let me see, I have some book, which perhaps gives out some details before his Maha Nirvana.

Salutations to Bhagavan

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