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Messages - Nagaraj

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331
General Discussion / Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« on: September 16, 2014, 08:56:10 PM »
Dear friends,

i have come across in few instances some exchanges with Bhagavan about Sri Aurobindo and about how the philosophies of Sri Bhagavan and that of Sri Aurobindo were different, but i have come to conclusion by my own little bit of exposure that all such differences are not true and that they are one and the very Same!

However maybe, somewhere, some extreme logicians may end up with some proofs of some expressions of both, how they differed but, for me, they are just the dusts of extreme logicians.

But i must admit that it takes a bit more, more time to get in tune with the writing style of Sri Aurobindo. well, atleast for me!

--

332
General Discussion / Re: Wise Quotes
« on: September 16, 2014, 08:52:20 PM »
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to
make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

333
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: September 16, 2014, 08:48:57 PM »
Stray thoughts...

being is the nature of Self, it is
not attained by imitation (by effort)
you can't 'Be' that, you are 'That'
so resounds the shruti-voice from within!

--

334


?It is due to weakness of mind
that peace once gained is later lost.?

335
Dear Sri Anil,

I pray too, that all the obstacles to your most cherished
visit to our beloved home Sri Ramanasramam, be removed
and Guru Ramana's blessings do the needful.



--

336
General Discussion / Re: Misc Articles
« on: September 15, 2014, 11:03:44 AM »
?You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, ?What did that man pick up?? ?He picked up a piece of Truth,? said the devil. ?That is a very bad business for you, then,? said his friend. ?Oh, not at all,? the devil replied, ?I am going to let him organize it."

I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others. This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley. If you would attain to the mountain-top you must pass through the valley, climb the steeps, unafraid of the dangerous precipices.

If an organization be created for this purpose, it becomes a crutch, a weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery for himself of that absolute, unconditioned Truth.

~ J Krishnamurty

337
Question: Why does not Bhagavan go about and preach the truth to the people at large?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: How do you know I am not doing it? Does preaching consist in mounting a platform and haranguing the people around? Preaching is simple communication of knowledge; it can really be done in silence only. What do you think of a man who listens to a sermon for an hour and goes away without having been impressed by it so as to change his life? Compare him with another, who sits in a holy presence and goes away after some time with his outlook on life totally changed. Which is the better, to preach loudly without effect or to sit silently sending out inner force?

Again, how does speech arise? First there is abstract knowledge. Out of this arises the ego, which in turn gives rise to thought, and thought to the spoken word. So the word is the great grandson of the original source. If the word can produce an effect, judge for yourself how much more powerful must be the preaching through silence.

339
That inner Self, as the primeval Spirit,
Eternal, ever effulgent, full and infinite Bliss,
Single, indivisible, whole and living,
Shines in everyone as the witnessing awareness.
That self in its splendour, shining in the cavity of the heart
This self is neither born nor dies,
Neither grows nor decays,
Nor does it suffer any change.
When a pot is broken, the space within it is not,
And similarly, when the body dies the Self in it remains eternal.


The collected works

340
Quote
Oh, No! dear Sri Nagaraj Ji. There is no need to raise a hue and cry over a minor passing remark of mine. I do not understand why my expression has become prone to be often misunderstood by you.

Dear Friend,

There isn't minor or major remarks in Sadhana, and having endeavored to post your reflections on Bhagavan's Self Enquiry, i believe, a sincere aspirant that you are, would not give place to any complacency in reflecting the wonderful teachings of Sri Bhagavan for your own reflection and more specifically, when you also intend to post your reflection for the benefit of other devotees.

Dear friend, i am trying to make this a constructive reflection. Of-course, i am aware what you meant, that you meant only your topic thread be spared from postings from others who may post their thoughts that may be different from the recorded teachings of Sri Bhagavan.

Well, definitely, my friend, i have not initiated my expressions now, just for some casual exchanges for minor thing, over scoring some brownie points. I am more interested in the Sadhana itself!

I am trying to bring to your reflection that firstly, you cannot stop others from posting any thoughts of others, even in your thread, at most you could request only.

I am trying to bring to your eyes that there ins't a "Non-Ramana Maharshi" way at all. I am trying to bring into your reasoning, why such resistence?

At any time, what ever other devotees may post even in your thread, be it is different from Bhagavan's teachings, they don't post it unassumingly, it is only because, there is the same Sadvastu, the same essence of Vichara in those expressions as well. you can't stop from facing differences. You can't have an exclusivity for Bhagavan, He is UNIVERSAL. He is not limited by just Self Enquiry alone. Especially when Ramana truly is the SELF. Of all, that Supreme Self is truly UNIVERSAL beyond the boundaries, even beyond self enquiry itself! Yes, He has mainly only recommended Self Enquiry, but He is not limited just to that. Now you as having to face so many Non-Bhagavan related posts, in your thread, can't be limited by the exclusivity of Self Enquiry alone, you also need to break free, and recognise the Self Enquiry in perceived Difference as well, the walls need to be broken, my friend. This is the crux.

The gates of that Self Ramana is ever open, my dear friends (there are no gates there), for one and all, YOU ARE THAT SELF (or when, as a sadhaka you aspire to be that Self) so you can't stop anything from uniting with the Self, even what is seemingly different in whatever way it may be, be it path, method, terms, ramana or non ramana. And true Self Enquiry takes one beyond all differences, beyond the limitations of the very path itself, such is the greatness of Self Enquiry.

Without sorting this out you would face further a lot of disturbances, unless, you are able to absorb so so called Non-Maharshi teachings as the same as Bhagavan's.

How long can you face your sadhana as Bhagavan's and non-Bhagavan's? Is there any difference? Why not address to yourself this evident difference that you perceive?

This is the reflection about. You may treat this as another sincere Sadhaka who is dropping in by for clarification or you may treat yourself as such a one seeking clarification and he who benefits, benefits! The Truth is the ultimate victor, that ought to be kept on pedestal.

However, you are free to ignore in attending to this. I needed to bring to your reflection, as I am compelled from within from my own reflection.

Wishing you the best.

Lots of love and regards,

--

341

And since Atma-vichara and Surrender to the Cause of one's being are His Preference and Emphasis, when I seek to dwell on the same for my as well as for those devotees of Sri Bhagwan who may also benefit, questions should not have been raised in a forum which claims to be dedicated to Bhagwan Sri Ramana. This is how I feel. For instance, please tell me, is it appropriate to start a topic here in this board of the forum, whatever that may be, other than Sri Bhagwan's Teaching, exclusively and strictly? And for the same reason, kindly also tell me, why should emphasis on Sri Bhagwan's Teaching not be laid here in this dedicated forum? 

Dear friend, just expressing as a true friend, just keep focused, no matter what opposition come forward, no matter how misplaced the arguments may be, be it for or against any spirit.

Questions will keep coming, you cannot change that, for what we give out, the responses will surely come back, that cannot be stopped. But in the spirit of Bhagawan, you keep focused in your sadhana.

What ever questions come towards us, be it various views or opinions, we ought to continue our sadhana with perseverance and without getting distracted at the least. Every thing that come in the form of various responses only help us get firm in our sadhana.

I wish you the best my friend.

Having said the above, my friend, I feel you need to review your thoughts on your expression as above, quoted below:

Quote
when I seek to dwell on the same for my as well as for those devotees of Sri Bhagwan who may also benefit, questions should not have been raised in a forum which claims to be dedicated to Bhagwan Sri Ramana. This is how I feel. For instance, please tell me, is it appropriate to start a topic here in this board of the forum, whatever that may be, other than Sri Bhagwan's Teaching, exclusively and strictly? And for the same reason, kindly also tell me, why should emphasis on Sri Bhagwan's Teaching not be laid here in this dedicated forum?

I feel, your views need to be introspected my friend, on questioning the opening and posting of various topics other than Sri Bhagavan's. I believe nobody has ever questioned about posting topics on Sri Bhagavan which has been having quite healthy exchanges. And my friend, I also request you to introspect if your views as expressed are in line with Sri Bhagavan's path.

And if that may be the case, I am afraid, I would not be able to participate officially here in this forum dedicated exclusively only on the topics of Sri Bhagavan alone.

Like you, my friend, I am also exclusively devoted to the Lotus feet of Sri Bhagavan, but I find myself not just limited to Sri Bhagavan alone. I would request Sri Graham also to provide clarity on this matter, if need be.

My friend, this exchange also is pure introspection mutually and for the benefit of all and I believe in the spirit of Self enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagavan you would take this in spirit for reflection

--

342
General Discussion / Re: Wise Quotes
« on: September 14, 2014, 07:04:05 PM »
It is an ego in man, that is shocked to find ego in others.

~ Sri Aurobindo

343
General Discussion / Re: Misc Articles
« on: September 14, 2014, 06:21:59 PM »
I maintain that truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or coerce people along a particular path. ... This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies.

~ J Krishnamurti, Dissolving the Order of The Star (breaking free from theosophical society that groomed him)


344
General Discussion / Misc Articles
« on: September 14, 2014, 06:11:31 PM »
The next day at one o'clock I went to Mr. Baker's prayer-meeting. There I was introduced to Miss Harris, Miss Gabb, Mr. Coates and others. Everyone kneeled down to pray, and I followed suit. The prayers were supplications to God for various things, according to each person's desire. Thus the usual forms were for the day to be passed peacefully, or for God to open the doors of the heart.

A prayer was now added for my welfare: 'Lord, show the path to the new brother who has come amongst us. Give him, Lord, the peace that Thou hast given us. May the Lord Jesus who has saved us save him too. We ask all this in the name of Jesus.' There was no singing of hymns or other music at these meetings. After the supplication for something special every day, we dispersed, each going to his lunch, that being the hour for it. The prayer did not take more than five minutes.

The Misses Harris and Gabb were both elderly maiden ladies. Mr. Coates was a Quaker. The two ladies lived together, and they gave me a standing invitation to four o'clock tea at their house every Sunday.
When we met on Sundays, I used to give Mr. Coates my religious diary for the week, and discuss with him the books I had read and the impression they had left on me. The ladies used to narrate their sweet experiences and talk about the peace they had found.

Mr. Coates was a frank-hearted staunch young man. We went out for walks together, and he also took me to other Christian friends.

As we came closer to each other, he began to give me books of his own choice, until my shelf was filled with them. He loaded me with books, as it were. In pure faith I consented to read all those books, and as I went on reading them we discussed them.

I read a number of such books in 1893. I do not remember the names of them all, but they included the Commentary of Dr. Parker of the City Temple, Pearson's Many Infallible Proofs and Butler's Analogy. Parts of these were unintelligible to me. I liked some things in them, while I did not like others. Many Infallible Proofs were proofs in support of the religion of the Bible, as the author understood it. The book had no effect on me. Parker's Commentary was morally stimulating, but it could not be of any help to one who had no faith in the prevalent Christian beliefs. Butler's Analogy struck me to be a very profound and difficult book, which should be read four or five times to be understood properly. It seemed to me to be written with a view to converting atheists to theism. The arguments advanced in it regarding the existence of God were unnecessary for me, as I had then passed the stage of unbelief; but the arguments in proof of Jesus being the only incarnation of God and the Mediator between God and man left me unmoved.

But Mr. Coates was not the man easily to accept defeat. He had great affection for me. He saw, round my neck, the Vaishnava necklace of Tulasi-beads. He thought it to be superstition and was pained by it.

'This superstition does not become you. Come, let me break the necklace.'

'No, you will not. It is a sacred gift from my mother.'

'But do you believe in it?'

'I do not know its mysterious significance. I do not think I should come to harm if I did not wear it. But I cannot, without sufficient reason, give up a necklace that she put round my neck out of love and in the conviction that it would be conducive to my welfare. When, with the passage of time, it wears away and breaks of its own accord, I shall have no desire to get a new one. But this necklace cannot be broken.'

Mr. Coates could not appreciate my argument, as he had no regard for my religion. He was looking forward to delivering me from the abyss of ignorance. He wanted to convince me that, no matter whether there was some truth in other religions, salvation was impossible for me unless I accepted Christianity which represented the truth, and that my sins would not be washed away except by the intercession of Jesus, and that all good works were useless.

Just as he introduced me to several books, he introduced me to several friends whom he regarded as staunch Christians. One of these introductions was to a family which belonged to the Plymouth Brethren, a Christian sect.

Many of the contacts for which Mr. Coates was responsible were good. Most struck me as being God- fearing. But during my contact with this family, one of the Plymouth Brethren confronted me with an argument for which I was not prepared:

'You cannot understand the beauty of our religion. From what you say it appears that you must be brooding over your transgressions every moment of your life, always mending them and atoning for them. How can this ceaseless cycle of action bring you redemption? You can never have peace. You admit that we are all sinners. Now look at the perfection of our belief. Our attempts at improvement and atonement are futile. And yet redemption we must have. How can we bear the burden of sin? We can but throw it on Jesus. He is the only sinless Son of God. It is His word that those who believe in Him shall have everlasting life. Therein lies God's infinite mercy. And as we believe in the atonement of Jesus, our own sins do not bind us. Sin we must. It is impossible to live in this world sinless. And therefore Jesus suffered and atoned for all the sins of mankind. Only he who accepts His great redemption can have eternal peace. Think what a life of restlessness is yours, and what a promise of peace we have.'

The argument utterly failed to convince me. I humbly replied:

'If this be the Christianity acknowledged by all Christians, I cannot accept it. I do not seek redemption from the consequences of my sin. I seek to be redeemed from sin itself, or rather from the very thought of sin. Until I have attained that end, I shall be content to be restless.'

To which the Plymouth Brother rejoined: I assure you, your attempt is fruitless. Think again over what I have said.'

And the Brother proved as good as his word. he knowingly committed transgressions, and showed me that he was undisturbed by the thought of them.

But I already knew before meeting with these friends that all Christians did not believe in such a theory of atonement. Mr. Coates himself walked in the fear of God. His heart was pure, and he believed in the possibility of self-purification. The two ladies also shared this belief. Some of the books that came into my hands were full of devotion. So, although Mr. Coates was very much disturbed by this latest experience of mine, I was able to reassure him and tell him that the distorted belief of a Plymouth Brother could not prejudice me against Christianity.

My difficulties lay elsewhere. They were with regard to the Bible and its accepted interpretation.

~ MK Gandhi My experiments with Truth

345
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: September 14, 2014, 05:49:42 PM »
Stray thoughts...

whether you prefer to catch bus or train or airplane or walk,
make sure you reach the destination. that is all that matters!

--

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