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Messages - Nagaraj

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3226
Dear i,

Please visit this link below, you will find many tamizh literature works available online. If you open the file in Unicode type, you would be able to simply copy and paste here, for your ease.

http://www.projectmadurai.org/pmworks.html

Salutations to Bhagavan

3227
Dear i,

i request you to kindly post verses from GVK TVK at your convinience, it would be really wonderful !

What treasure we have in our hands, i guess, we don't even fathom the value of these! Our Yajna would be to read it, assimilate the Bhavam of Manickavachakar and Muruganar.

This itself would suffice!

Salutations to Bhagavan

3228
Dear i,

the beauty of Guruvachaka Kovai is enhanced when read along with Manickavachakar's Thiruvachaka kovai

i am happy at least i became acquainted with these!

Salutations to Bhagavan

3229
Dear i,

wonderful, thank you for elaborating these beautiful ecstatic expressions of Manikkavachagar. i do not get these subtle essence of what you have mentioned in GU Pope's translation - "The mere seeing of Siva's golden feet, in Tiruperundurai has conferred him liberation! Veedu = moksham in Tamizh."

There is a beauty when one reads the meaning of this verse as above and as how GU Pope has rendered his translation. How truly blessed one must be to pass the life time, or, pass this never ending moment by praising the almighty. Manickavachagar lived some thousand years back, very recently, can we believe, Muruganar was there? sometimes, its so pleasantly surprising!

Here i reproduce the Thiruvembavai verse in tamizh:

போற்றி அருளுக நின் ஆதியாம் பாதமலர்
போற்றி அருளுக நின் அந்தமாம் செந்தளிர்கள்
போற்றி எல்லா உயிர்க்கும் தோற்றமாம் பொற்பாதம்
போற்றி எல்லா உயிர்க்கும் போகமாம் பூங்கழல்கள்
போற்றி எல்லா உயிர்க்கும் ஈறாம் இணையடிகள்
போற்றி மால் நான்முகனும் காணாத புண்டரிகம்
போற்றியாம் உய்யஆட் கொண்டருளும் பொன்மலர்கள்
போற்றியாம் மார்கழிநீர் ஆடேலோர் எம்பாவாய். 174
         pORRi aruLuga n^in AdhiyAm pAdhamalar
    pORRi aruLuga n^in an^dhamAm chen^dhaLirgaL
pORRi ellA uyirkkum thORRamAm poRpAdham
    pORRi ellA uyirkkum pOgamAm pUN^gazalgaL
pORRi ellA uyirkkum IRAm iNaiyaDigaL
    pORRi mAl n^Anmuganum kANAdha puNDarigam
pORRiyAm uyyAaT koNDaruLum ponmalargaL
    pORRiyAm mArgazin^Ir ADElOr embAvAy. 

here is the other one -

யானே பொய் என்நெஞ்சும் பொய் என் அன்பும் பொய்
ஆனால் வினையேன் அழுதால் உன்னைப் பெறலாமே
தேனே அமுதே கரும்பின் தெளிவே தித்திக்கும்
மானே அருளாய் அடியேன் உனை வந்து உறுமாறே. 94
         yAnE poy enn^enychum poy en anbum poy
 AnAl vinaiyEn azudhAl unnaip peRalAmE
thEnE amudhE karumbin theLivE thiththikkum
mAnE aruLAy aDiyEn unai van^dhu uRumARE

Salutations to Bhagavan

3230
Dear i,

with this peace, i was absolutely content. i was free for some time, so i came home, then due to the natural pre disposition, i switched on the television, then, i restrained myself, and switched off the television, then, not knowing what to do, i naturally went towards the books, that too, i felt is due to my pre disposition, and i restrained, and i just sat down for some time, remaining just as i am. There is a demand to keep myself occupied with something. there is a struggle from within to pass this moment, but, there is no passing this moment. And, here i am back to forum, letting out my energies in these very words!

The peace remains, but, what to do? with this moment, remains! Kindly share your thoughts.

Also, i want to add that i am not religiously trying to restrain myself, but, watching television, even reading books constantly is strain, no matter spiritual books. i am just going in to subtler details. It may not be required, but, just letting out these energies here.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3231
Dear i,

such a beautiful discernment!

சிவன் அவன் என்சிந்தையுள் நின்ற அதனால்
அவன் அருளாலே அவன் தாள் வணங்கிச்
சிந்தை மகிழச் சிவ புராணம் தன்னை
முந்தை வினைமுழுதும் ஓய உரைப்பன் யான். 20
          chivan avan enchin^dhaiyuL n^inRa adhanAl
avan aruLAlE avan thAL vaNaN^gich
chin^dhai magizach chiva purANam thannai
mun^dhai vinaimuzudhum Oya uraippan yAn.

Because He, Civan, within my thought abides,
By His grace alone, bowing before His feet,
With joyous thought, Civan's 'Ways of Old' I'll tell,
That thus my former 'deeds' may wholly pass. (20)


எல்லாப் பிறப்பும் பிறந்து இளைத்தேன், எம்பெருமான்
மெய்யே உன் பொன் அடிகள் கண்டு இன்று வீடு உற்றேன்
உய்ய என் உள்ளத்துள் ஓங்காரமாய் நின்ற
மெய்யா விமலா விடைப்பாகா வேதங்கள்
ஐயா எனவோங்கி ஆழ்ந்து அகன்ற நுண்ணியனே 35

வெய்யாய், தணியாய், இயமானனாம் விமலா
பொய் ஆயின எல்லாம் போய் அகல வந்தருளி
மெய் ஞானம் ஆகி மிளிர் கின்ற மெய்ச் சுடரே
எஞ்ஞானம் இல்லாதேன் இன்பப் பெருமானே
அஞ்ஞானம் தன்னை அகல்விக்கும் நல் அறிவே 40


          ellAp piRappum piRan^dhu iLaiththEn, emberumAn
meyyE un pon aDigaL kaNDu inRu vIDu uRREn
uyya en uLLaththuL ON^gAramAy n^inRa
meyyA  vimalA  viDaippAgA  vEdhaN^gaL
aiyA  enavON^gi Azn^dhu aganRa n^uNNiyanE              35



veyyAy, thaNiyAy, iyamAnanAm vimalA
poy Ayina ellAm pOy agala van^dharuLi
mey nyAnam Agi miLir kinRa meych chuDarE
enynyAnam illAdhEn inbap perumAnE
anynyAnam thannai agalvikkum n^al aRivE
HE FOUND THE MASTER

Truly, seeing Thy golden feet this day, I've gained release.
O Truth! as the OngAram dwelling in my soul,
That I may 'scape. O spotless one ! O Master of the bull !
Lord of the VEdas! Rising, sinking, spreading, subtile One ! (35)

Thou art the heat ! and Thou the cold ! the Master Thou, O spotless One !
Thou cam'st in grace, that all things false might flee,
True Wisdom, gleaming bright in splendour true,
To me, void of all wisdom, blissful Lord !
O Wisdom fair, causing unwisdom' self to flee far off !


(Translated by GU Pope)

Salutations to Bhagavan

3232
Intellectual or intuitional, knowledge that one is not the mind, helps. So, by knowledge, desires or vasanas, in my view, can be rendered weaker. Desires and vasanas are in the mind. Therefore, knowledge that the mind is only a bundle of thoughts, knowledge that it is insentient and shines in the Light of the Self, helps one to control the mind.
Sri Bhagwan says that every time one attempts satisfaction of a desire, the knowledge comes that it is better to desist. Repeated reminders of this kind weaken the desires in due course.

The more the desires are fulfilled, the deeper grows the samsakara. Therefore, they must become weaker and THAT WEAKNESS CAN BE BROUGHT ABOUT BY RESTRAINING ONESELF AND NOT BY LOSING ONESELF IN DESIRES.

Yes, this is the way. Perhaps the only way! Constant remembrance of the 'knowledge' assimilated and holding on to it, without swerving for a slightest temptation. It is a razors journey, initially, until it becomes our nature!

The only way to win over vasanas is to engulf it knowledge, like how the sun is, the sun has never seen the darkness, it cannot even if it wills, and, even if it asks the darkness to stay a little while longer so that he can have a peak into what darkness really is. Brahmasri Nochur says, a person who wanted to find the darkness deep inside a cave, went with the quest with a lantern lamp, inside the dark cave, but where ever he went, there was no darkness!

Thank you. in Zen, this is what is called, mindfulness!

Salutations to Bhagavan

3233
General topics / Re: Shakti Ma
« on: May 04, 2012, 06:32:05 PM »
Dear i,

you may listen/download to the Uma Sahasranaama chanted by MP Pandit in the following links:

http://www.infobuddhism.com/infobuddhism/Umasahasram%20Part%20I%20of%20II.mp3

http://www.infobuddhism.com/infobuddhism/Umasahasram%20Part%20II%20of%20II.mp3

Salutations to Bhagavan

3234
Dear i,

Thank you for your response, i consciously opened this topic here so that i would get to read your response, as i did not want to miss your views as you generally you limit yourself to posting only to this topic - Self enquiry as taught by Bhagavan is enough, and, very rightfully so.

i absolutely understand how difficult it must be to keep yourself abreast with Atma vichara here, with several worldly problems. I WANT TO SAY, IT IS A SOURCE OF GREAT INSPIRATION FOR ONE AND ALL. Thank you.

yes, absolutely, completely giving up desires is sine qua non.

It is our direct understanding, that, we are toiling madly inorder to refuel the ever exhausting experience of Vasanas inorder to experience the happiness, but, there is no guarantee that we can keep doing this for ever! We may not have money, we cannot trust our limbs and body, they all may fail us, no matter how much investments and savings we may plan for, what is the point if we would be unable to eat some food to relish the bliss because of some disease? what is the point in saving the money to buy a nice car, what if we would be unable to drive it eventually?

So, therefore, it is not as though we are absolutely blind to these realities, just that we don't know the truth yet, in its pristine purity. That is why we are forced to depend on the following -

relationships
money
activities
keep ourselves occupied with something, etc....

Instead, now, having known this basic discernment that all these cannot last, if we strive even more to discern the truth, how much blessed we must be, how much blessed we must be?

It is forgetfulness that is to blame. when the vasanas come to attack us with excellent marketing and advertising trying to sell itself to us, instead of giving ourselves to that, instead of succumbing to it, we need to contemplate. This is the attempt.

Let us try to discern, the declaration of Sages, that what is That, that is above the experience of vasanas? what is That, what is That? that is not here? We would be unable to establish in the Self, unless we first intellectually understand that Ananda, which would instantaneously annihilate our dependence of vasanas, ie. (Like cotton in afire, all vasanas in the hearts of those in whom the divine grace, the fire of jnana, has been kindled will be completely and simultaneously destroyed.) and which would be a direct cause for a natural repose in Self. No effort, pure knowledge ie (Establish yourself in the Self so that the vasanas, the impurities, are rooted out and destroyed. That is the true course of action.)

Thanks to all :)

Salutations to Bhagavan

3235
Let us look into it a little more subtly

                  Atma
  • Scripture declare that Atma is Sat-Chit-Ananda, it is continues, conscious, bliss - basically it declares that Atma alone is that, knowing which, there is absolutely no Dukha, no ending, no beginning, no ending, and it is constant experience, without break.
  • They say, there is no need to work for this experience, it is Swayam Siddha, Swayam Sukha, there is no question of more or less as this is continues, they declare.
  • They say, this bliss is not yet experienced so as to over power the experience of a vasana.
  • They say, there is no fatigue here, there is no tiredness, there is no effort required, yet the happiness is immeasurable compared to that of some vasana.
  • What is this happiness?
  • there is no union required, it is Self, by itself complete, there is no such distinctions as found in the corresponding point, on the other side  --->
                  Some Vasana
  • We can enjoy this experience, when ever we want, it is ending, temporary, but, we have the power to repeat it again
  • We need to work for this experience, the more we need the more we need to put effort for this.
  • This experience is readily available.
  • Fatigues one out, tiredness, mental work, all these are the costs involved to experience this joy, additionally, we need somebody to cook that particular taste for us to enjoy or we need money so as to be able to buy from somewhere to relish this joy.
  • The happiness is the union of tongue and the food.
  • This happiness is only experienced with duality, and the union of that duality, happiness is understood in relation to sadness, union is understood in relation to separation, and so on, Unity is understood in relation to difference

Inspite of the disadvantages of the experience of bliss of Vasanas, from the extant of our own direct experience, the experience of Taste is more directly available simply because, we don't yet know the bliss of Atma, yet.

What we know of Atma is only limited to "They say or Scriptures say" and not yet, our own direct experience, unless we see the bliss in Atma Nishta, we will never be able to over come the experience of taste.

Bhagavan says "Summa Irukkum Sukham" "The bliss of just being" But, do we see the same bliss in just being? we get bored and we look for more transient things which give us bliss.

There is clear lack in discernment of the Atma.

What is that Gap? What is Atma, what Bliss is this Atmic bliss? We need to look deeply at these questions because unless we intellectually grasp the bliss of Atma, we will not be able to let go of our Vasanas. Unless we have direct experience of Atma, we can never know it.

We have read that such bliss were experienced by direct devotees in the Presence of Guru, such as Ramanar, Ramakrishnar, and so on.

i have noticed myself, when i go to Arunachala, i do not remember or even desire any particular food, what ever is available i am content, just to fulfill the hunger. When we come out of that Presence, we no longer have that grasp. But we all have to come back to our places where we are. Bhagavan says in Talks 68

The lady with him was most reluctant to leave the Master and return home. The Master said, “Think that you are always in my presence. That will make you feel right.”

But, the fact is, we are unable to feel that presence right here, why? because, to think about that presence here, seems a very tough! It (seems) tougher than relishing the taste (any vasana) here which is quickly available.

Another factor, on why we are unable to think that we are always near His presence, is because, we don't yet know really what His presence really is. The bliss than we experience at His Sannidhi is unconscious bliss, we are just so troubled by our life that when we go there, we are so tired and mentally fatigued that we simply are, like as though sleep on the Mother's lap. What we may do next time is consciously see for ourselves what that presence really is, so that it stays with us, strongly.

i conclude here as of now!

....some running musings... more later

Salutations to Bhagavan

3236
Dear i,

with the above post, which illustrates, the importance of knowing the truth intellectually, without which, one cannot practice being the truth. With this, i have narrowed down to this discernment -

Jnana is directly revealed at the annihilation of Vasanas. there is no finding the truth, just, it is camouflaged by vasanas. Now, unless we intellectually discern that the truth is the ultimate bliss compared to the temporal bliss experienced through vasanas, is nothing, we will be unable to win over Vasanas. Moreover, suppressing vasanas is really not advised because Bhagavan always advised to go to the root of vasanas and enquire the source, so that it never comes up again. Just suppressing our vasanas blindly is not real solution as it is bound to raise again, because the vasanas are not pressed down by knowledge, but they are pressed down by force of aversion to it, or simply because, we have read in scriptures that Vasanas ought to be avoided, blindly. So, when the force reduces because of fatigue, our tiredness, it will capitalise once again.

So Dear i, i have narrowed down to these fundamental question, discernment, which each one of us has to question oneself.

The questions that we have to ask are as follows:

Is the Atmic Bliss superior to the Bliss experience of basar things such as food, luxury, plasures etc...

yes, we will say, Atmic bliss is superior, but is it our experience?, or are we merely parroting what Bhagavan and other sages have said? If we are troubled by our Vasanas, then it is a fact that at least for now, the Vasanas give us better bliss than the Atma. Lets us look into these one by one. Dear i, kindly contemplate and share here, your discernment.

Let us first look from the base, food, everybody cannot live without food. so eating itself is not an issue, but the taste buds, are the different taste that we relish gives us more relishment than the Atma?

Let us begin from food and go further one by one.

Can we all blossom? Thank you.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3237
The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Sadhana Tips
« on: May 04, 2012, 02:18:41 PM »
when we are troubled by any Vasana, just wait it out, not even try to solve it, and surely not to succumb to it. When the water is hot, we cannot drink it or even touch the vessel, if we leave it out, allowing it to cool down, in some time, it will cool down. That is the nature of heat - Ushnam, Vasanas.

an being cautious to not allowing to heat again, ie, not going near temptations, striving to remain in that cool state always.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3238
General topics / Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« on: May 04, 2012, 02:12:57 PM »
True that in proximity of a great master, vasanas will cease to be active. But to remain unshaken further efforts  are necessary.

.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3239

Mr. Ekanatha Rao: What is sphurana (a kind of indescribable but palpable sensation in the heart centre)?

M.: Sphurana is felt on several occasions, such as in fear, excitement, etc. Although it is always and all over, yet it is felt at a particular centre and on particular occasions. It is also associated with antecedent causes and confounded with the body. Whereas, it is all alone and pure; it is the Self. If the mind be fixed on the sphurana and one senses it continuously and automatically it is realisation. Again sphurana is the foretaste of Realisation. It is pure. The subject and object proceed from it. If the man mistakes himself for the subject, objects must necessarily appear different from him. They are periodically withdrawn and projected, creating the world and the subject’s enjoyment of the same. If, on the other hand, the man feels himself to be the screen on which the subject and object are projected
there can be no confusion, and he can remain watching their appearance and disappearance without any perturbation to the Self.



Bhagavan says (talks 40) -

Unless intellectually known, how to practice it? Learn it intellectually first, then do not stop with that. Practise it.



A sannyasi asked: It is said that the Self is beyond the mind and yet the realisation is with the mind. Mano na manute, Manasa na matam,
and Manasaivedamaptavyam (The mind cannot think it. It cannot be thought of by the mind and the mind alone can realise it). How are
these contradictions to be reconciled?

M.: Atman is realised with mruta manas (dead mind), i.e., mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward. Then the mind sees its own  source and becomes That. It is not as the subject perceiving an object. When the room is dark a lamp is necessary to illumine and eyes to  cognise objects. But when the sun is risen there is no need of a lamp, and the objects are seen; and to see the sun no lamp is necessary, it is enough that you turn your eyes towards the selfluminous sun.

Similarly with the mind. To see the objects the reflected light of the mind is necessary. To see the Heart it is enough that the mind is turned towards it. Then the mind loses itself and the Heart shines forth.

Salutations to Bhagavan

3240
General topics / Re: Vasanas after knowing the truth
« on: May 04, 2012, 12:04:24 PM »
(Kaivalya Navaneetam, part two, verses 149-51)

The four levels of knowing Brahman that correspond to categories four to seven are discussed in the first part of Kaivalya Navaneetham:

94 The wise, remaining like ether and liberated even here, are of four classes, namely Brahmavid (i.e. knower of Brahman), vara, varya, and varishta, in order of merit.

95 The Brahmavids who by steadfast practice have gained clear realisation of Brahman, continue to perform even the hard duties of their caste and stage in life, exactly as prescribed by the shastras, for the benefit of others, without themselves swerving from their supreme state.

96 Should passions rise up they disappear instantly and cannot taint the mind of the Brahmavids who live in society detached like water on a lotus leaf. They look ignorant, not showing forth their knowledge and remain mute owing to intensity of inward bliss.

97 Prarabdha, i.e. karma which is now bearing fruit, differs according to the actions of the persons in past incarnations. Therefore their present pursuits also differ among jnanis who are all, however, liberated even here. They may perform holy tapas; or engage in trade and commerce; or rule a kingdom; or wander about as mendicants.

98 They would not think of the past or future; would partake of what comes unsolicited; would not wonder if the sun turned into the moon or at any marvel, whether the sky were to spread its shoots down like a banyan tree or a corpse were to be revived; nor would they distinguish good and bad, for they always remain as the unchanging witness of all.

99 Among the other three classes, the vara and the varya remain settled in samadhi.
The vara feels concern for the maintenance of the body; the varya is reminded of it by others; the varishta never becomes aware of the body either by himself or through others.

100 Although there are distinguishing characteristics in the lives of the different sages, who are themselves very rare in the world, yet there is absolutely no difference in the experience of liberation.

Salutations to Bhagavan

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