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Messages - Nagaraj

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3136
Dear i,

Vallalar sang,

"Kadaiyai thiranden Vaanguvor illai"

I opened the shop, but nobody is there to buy, referring to eagerness in sharing the "bliss" of Atman.

Is one of the most profound statements of ecstasy, which expresses his eagerness/sadness, that nobody is ready to truly listen to That.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3137
And all these line of thoughts or ideas such as, one who has known, will have no need to stay in forum, or he would renounce the world and go away, or he would not declare, etc... all such statements are only ideas, but far from truth!

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3138
Dear i,

you have rightfully observed, that bodilessness is a foregone conclusion, when one discerns the weight of:

“Be still and know that I am God.”
To be still is not to think. Know, and not think, is the word.

It is also important to note that, the above revelation is essential, basically to 'know' the Self, or to know that which is God. Because, there has already been an effort to 'know' the Self. All these exercises and great revelations are only to 'know' the Self.

Once one has 'known' the Self, once when one has seen the Self, with absolutely no doubts or any more dilemmas, or any kind of 50 50 feelings; there is no more a requirement for such a one to "be still" or do "Self Enquiry" or again repeatedly remain still to know the Self again and again and again.

Knowing is only Once, once it has been known, there is no need to know it again! Jnana vasana or Knowledge is vasana that again propels one to again look within, does self enquiry, and goes through needless discernment again and again, even though he has seen the Self.

For such a one, there is nothing more to do, his own sweet will is his action. all the revelation about thoughtlessness, stilling the mind, looking within, etc.. were only for one to be able to realise the Self or know the Self.

There is no question of Being the Self, Knowing itself is being, unknowingly, we have thought in the past that being is yet again some other level to attain, after 'knowing' the Self.

I do not know how many are able to see what i have tried to convey here, but it is certainly greatly releiving, what ever i just saw, and am conveying it here immediately!

There is nothing more to do, nothing to become!

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3139
D.: What is moksha (liberation)?

M.: Moksha is to know that you were not born.

“Be still and know that I am God.”

To be still is not to think. Know, and not think, is the word.

(Talks 131)

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3140
General topics / Bhagavan and Dog
« on: May 24, 2012, 04:17:07 PM »
Many of us may be familiar with this incident, but i was very much moved by reading this post in David Godman's blog, posted by Srini. i couldn't stop myself from posting this very touching incident here.

"A diseased dog was trying to enter the gates of Ramanashram daily for 3 days. Other dogs and some Ashram people kept driving it away. One night Bhagavan slowly walked out of the hall without disturbing anyone. The person attending him thought he was going to the bathroom and followed him at a distance. After a couple of minutes, when Bhagavan did not return, he went looking for him and heard Bhagavan’s voice saying “Thrupthiyachaa?” “Podhumaa ?” (Is it enough ?, Are you satisfied?). He found Bhagavan squatting next to the diseased dog. The dog was licking Bhagavan all over his body including his face while Bhagavan was talking to the dog with these words. After a few minutes, Bhagavan got up and slept on the cot without bothering to clean himself. Next day morning, the Ashramites found the dog lying dead near the entrance. The dog was holding on to its life to have Bhagavan's Darshan."



Seldom, we come across such moving incidents, incidents like this makes one tremble in joy and bones melt, unable to face the extant of compassion of Sri Bhagvavan.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3141
General topics / Re: I-Am Ness
« on: May 24, 2012, 04:06:43 PM »
Dear i,

excellent article!

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3142
Dear i,

you may be interested to go through this link:

http://www.kamakoti.org/souv/5-58.html

The Maha-Svami and The Maharishi by Ra. Ganapati

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3143
General topics / Re: Shakti Ma
« on: May 24, 2012, 09:17:55 AM »
Dear i,

on some occasion, when some such concerned devotees came the following day to again feed the boy Saint, and as usual when they opened his mouth, so as to feed him, they found the milk still in his mouth, he was thus, that much in Nishta.

(recollection from Arunachala's Ramana)

Prostrations to Bhagava

3144
General Discussion / What is Discrimination
« on: May 24, 2012, 08:23:02 AM »
NEIGHBOUR: "What is discrimination?"

MASTER: "Discrimination is the reasoning by which one knows that God alone is real and all else is unreal. Real means eternal, and unreal means impermanent. He who has acquired discrimination knows that God is the only Substance and all else is non-existent. With the awakening of this spirit of discrimination a man wants to know God. On the contrary, if a man loves the unreal-such things as creature comforts, name, fame, and wealth, then he doesn't want to know God, who is of the very nature of Reality. Through discrimination between the Real and the unreal one seeks to know God.

"Listen to a song:

                      Come, let us go for a walk, O mind, to Kāli, the Wish-fulfilling Tree,
                      And there beneath It gather the four fruits of life.
                      Of your two wives, Dispassion and Worldliness,
                      Bring along Dispassion only, on your way to the Tree,
                      And ask her son Discrimination about the Truth. . . .

"By turning the mind within oneself one acquires discrimination, and through discrimination one thinks of Truth. Then the mind feels the desire to go for a walk to Kāli, the Wish-fulfilling Tree. Reaching that Tree, that is to say, going near to God, you can without any effort gather four fruits, namely, dharma, artha, kama, and moksha. Yes, after realizing God, one can also get, if one so desires, dharma, artha, and kama, which are necessary for leading the worldly life."

NEIGHBOUR: "Then why should one call the world maya?"

God and the world


MASTER: "As long as one has not realized God, one should renounce the world, following the process of 'Neti, neti.' But he who has attained God knows that it is God who has become all this. Then he sees that God, maya, living beings, and the universe form one whole. God includes the universe and its living beings. Suppose you have separated the shell, flesh, and seeds of a bel-fruit and someone asks you the weight of the fruit. Will you leave aside the shell and the seeds, and weigh only the flesh? Not at all. To know the real weight of the fruit, you must weigh the whole of it-the shell, the flesh, and the seeds. Only then can you tell its real weight. The shell may be likened to the universe, and the seeds to living beings. While one is engaged in discrimination one says to oneself that the universe and the living beings are non-Self and unsubstantial. At that time one thinks of the flesh alone as the substance, and the shell and seeds as unsubstantial. But after discrimination is over, one feels that all three parts of the fruit together form a unity. Then one further realizes that the stuff that has produced the flesh of the fruit has also produced the shell and seeds. To know the real nature of the bel-fruit one must know all three.

"It is the process of evolution and involution. The world, after its dissolution, remains involved in God; and God, at the time of creation, evolves as the world. Butter goes with buttermilk, and buttermilk goes with butter. If there is a thing called buttermilk, then butter also exists; and if there is a thing called butter, then buttermilk also exists. If the Self exists, then the non-Self must also exist.

Note WRT "If the Self exists, then the non-Self must also exist" :

                  What is called knowledge
                  Is nothing but [the corollary of] ignorance;
                  Each appears at the concealment of the other.

                  ----------

                 If we call this “ignorance,”
                 What shall we call “knowledge”?
                 Is the Self an object of either one?

                 (Jnaneshwar)

"The phenomenal world belongs to that very Reality to which the Absolute belongs; again, the Absolute belongs to that very Reality to which the phenomenal world belongs. He who is realized as God has also become the universe and its living beings. One who knows the Truth knows that it is He alone who has become father and mother, child and neighbour, man and animal, good and bad, holy and unholy, and so forth."

Virtue and vice

NEIGHBOUR: "Then is there no virtue and no sin?"

MASTER: "They both exist and do not exist. If God keeps the ego in a man, then He keeps in him the sense of differentiation and also the sense of virtue and sin. But in a rare few He completely effaces the ego and these go beyond virtue and sin, good and bad. As long as a man has not realized God, he retains the sense of differentiation and the knowledge of good and bad. You may say: 'Virtue and sin are the same to me. I am doing only as God bids me.' But you know in your heart of hearts that those are mere words. No sooner do you commit an evil deed than you feel a palpitation in your heart. Even after God has been realized, He keeps in the mind of the devotee, if He so desires, the feeling of the 'servant ego'. In that state the devotee says, 'O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant.' Such a devotee enjoys only spiritual talk and spiritual deeds.
He does not enjoy the company of ungodly people. He does not care for any work that is not of a holy nature. So you see that God keeps the sense of differentiation even in such a devotee."

NEIGHBOUR: "You ask us, sir, to live in the world after knowing God. Can God really be known?"

MASTER: "God cannot be known by the sense-organs or by this mind; but He can be known by the pure mind, the mind that is free from worldiy desires."
NEIGHBOUR: "Who can know God?"
MASTER: "Right. Who can really know Him? But as for us, it is enough to know as much of Him as we need. What need have I of a whole well of water? One jar is more than enough for me. An ant went to a sugar hill. Did it need the entire hill? A grain or two of sugar was more than enough."

NEIGHBOUR: "Sir, we are like typhoid patients. How can we be satisfied with one jar of water? We feel like knowing, the whole of God."

MASTER: "That's true. But there is also medicine for typhoid."
NEIGHBOUR: "What is that medicine, sir?"

MASTER: "The company of holy men, repeating the name of God and singing His glories, and unceasing prayer. I prayed to the Divine Mother: 'Mother, I don't seek knowledge. Here, take Thy knowledge, take Thy ignorance. Give me only pure love for Thy Lotus Feet.' I didn't ask for anything else. "As is the disease, so must the remedy be. The Lord says in the Gitā: 'O Arjuna, take refuge in Me. I shall deliver you from all sins.' Take shelter at His feet: He will give you right understanding. He will take entire responsibility for you. Then you will get rid of the typhoid. Can one ever know God with such a mind as this? Can one pour four seers of milk into a one-seer pot? Can we ever know God unless He lets us know Him? Therefore I say, take shelter in God. Let Him do whatever He likes. He is self-willed. What power is there in a man?"

(The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna)

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3145
Dear i,

We need to be absolutely firm in our conviction!

D.: When duhka (misery) overpowers me, enquiry is impossible.
M.: Because the mind is too weak. Make it strong.

D.: By what means?
M.: Sat-sanga, Isvara Aradhana, Pranayama (association with the wise, worship of God, breath control).

D.: What happens?
M.: Misery is removed; our aim is removal of misery. You do not acquire happiness. Your very nature is happiness. Bliss is not newly earned. All that is done is to remove unhappiness. These methods do it.

D.: Association with the wise may strengthen the mind. There must also be practice. What practice should be made?
M.: Yes. Practice is necessary too. Practice means removal of predispositions. Practice is not for any fresh gain; it is to kill the predispositions.
D.: Abhyasa (practice) should give me that power.
M.: Practice is power. If thoughts are reduced to a single thought, the mind is said to have grown strong. When practice remains unshaken it becomes sahaja (natural).

D.: What is such practice?
M.: Enquiring into the Self. That is all. Atmanyeva vasam nayet ... Fix the mind on the SELF.

D.: What is the aim to be kept in view? Practice requires an aim.
M.: Atman is the aim. What else can there be? All other aims are for those who are incapable of atmalakshya (having the Self for the aim). They lead you ultimately to atma-vichara (enquiry into the Self). One-pointedness is the fruit of all kinds of practice. One may get it quickly; another after a long time. Everything depends on the practice.

(Talks 290)

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3146
Dear i,

Moreover, as the saying goes "make hay while the Sun shines" the God, makes nice haly while the sun shines, ie. when the ego, delusion, ignorance, is shining in all glory in anybody. That is the time when the God almighty decides to hunt and trap all those with the twine!

And, some tamil poet, either Thayumanavar or somebody sings, why name has come come for Arunachala? it has come only because of his devotees, the great devotees, whom he decides to take away are the ones who bring fame to Arunachala. The name and fame of Arunachala is truly not His but his devotees, sings the poet . So Arunachala is always in look out of devotees, and he catched them and traps them and pulls them to him and makes them reside in him for ever!

In the same ways, Dear i, look at the lives of all Asuras? Ravana, Tarakasura, Narakasura, Hiranyakasipu and so many other Asuras? they were all devoured by God almight? HOW BLESSED THEY ARE? Asuras are symbolic representation of ones own ego.

look at the fate of Bhasmasura? After having received boon from Shiva himself, that whoever he touched in head, they would become bhasma, and he goes on to try it on Shiva himself, and it is said that Lord Shiva ran, ran to try and escape from Bhasmasura and Vishanu appears as a beautiful lady and when Asura is infatuated towards her, she insists to teach him to dance and that he has to enact as she dances and in turn she keeps her hand on her head and so does Bhasmasura on his own head and gets killed!

It is said tha Shiva ran ran and ran, the truth is that no matter how much Bhasmasura would have ran behind Shiva, he could never reach him, always shiva can never be caught outside, the more he tried to catch Shiva externally, he could not kill himself (Shiva), where has the moment he touched his own head, he was killed immediately.

All Asuras are indeed blessed.

Ironically it is those bad people who have attained God quickly, :D we all who are in between, neither good nor bad, are the ones who delay by too much intelligence :D

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3147
Friends - The trickiest thing about some prayers for those who are new and try to "understand" and chant the prayer is about chanting some advaitha slokas like Nirvana Shatkam. Unless the person is conversant with Advaitha, chanting like "Na Punyam.. Na Papam..." etc can be interpreted very miserably by ego. I am in no way saying anything against prayers - but I just expressing a trap, if I may call so. And the need to properly understand and pray - if one has to.

Dear i,

i understand your concern, but, no need to worry, the God takes care, the very fact that Nirvana Shatkam has landed on ones had be it new or a one who is familiar is grace itself, that grace shall take care thereafter, even if one has  to get deluded, it is happening only for that ones own good, the grinding happens, for ones own good. Confusions, contradictions, sufferings, question about faith in ones God during times of distress are blessings in disguise, for without facing them, one cannot cross them.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3148
Dear i,

Absolutely TRUE. Once, when Guru has seen, in a disciple, even a minutest desire to surrender to God, Truth, he takes care of him, once when His sight falls on such a disciple, who has cried to Him, in utter helplessness on his part, the Guru's grace begins to work on him in mysterious and unfathomable ways.

He is taking care, Dear i, period.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3149
Dear i,

This is very true, why this is of such importance is because, we are discussing and trying to find ways to free ourselves of desires. for a relative problem we are looking for a relative solution, but, leaving out something very important in that quest.

our efforts to try and sort out our desires problems is as good as trying to sort out those problems in ones dream. Where as, what is important to first free ourselves of this relative stand point of view. As Bhagavan says "Avidya is Maya"

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3150
Dear i,

very true, it is a great loss to assume Self is not realised, and needs to be realised, and, all sorts of ignorance takes birth only from this wrong belief.

“In practice, the thoughts are found to manifest and subside alternately. Is this jnana?” Sri Bhagavan explained the doubt as follows:

Some people think that there are different stages in jnana. The Self is nitya aparoksha, i.e., ever-realised, knowingly or unknowingly. Sravana, they argue, should therefore be aparoksha jnana (directly experienced) and not paroksha jnana (indirect knowledge). But jnana should result in duhkha nivriti (loss of misery) whereas sravana alone does not bring it about. Therefore they say, though aparoksha, it is not unshaken; the rising of vasanas is the cause of its being weak (not unchanging); when
the vasanas are removed, jnana becomes unshaken and bears fruit.

Others say sravana is only paroksha jnana. By manana (reflection) it becomes aparoksha spasmodically. The obstruction to its continuity is the vasanas: they rise up with reinforced vigour after manana. They must be held in check. Such vigilance consists in remembering = “I am not the body” and adhering to the aparoksha anubhava (direct experience) which has been had in course of manana (reflection).

Such practice is called nididhyasana and eradicates the vasanas. Then dawns the sahaja state. That is jnana, sure.The aparoksha in manana cannot effect dukha nivritti (loss of misery) and cannot amount to moksha, i.e., release from bondage because the vasanas periodically overpower the jnana. Hence it is adridha (weak) and becomes firm after the vasanas have been eradicated by nididhyasana (one-pointedness).



This is yet another conversation, noteworthy -

The visitor said: “One must become satiate with the fulfilment of desires before they are renounced.” Sri Bhagavan smiled and cut in: “Fire might as well be put out by pouring spirit over the flames. (All laugh). The more the desires are fulfilled, the deeper grows the samskara. They must become weaker before they cease to assert themselves. That weakness is brought about by restraining oneself and not by losing oneself in desires.

D.: How can they be rendered weaker?
M.: By knowledge. You know that you are not the mind. The desires are in the mind. Such knowledge helps one to control them.

D.: But they are not controlled in our practical lives.
M.: Every time you attempt satisfaction of a desire the knowledge comes that it is better to desist. Repeated reminders of this kind will in due course weaken the desires. What is your true nature? How can you ever forget it? Waking, dream and sleep are mere phases of the mind. They are not of the Self. You are the witness of these states. Your true nature is found in sleep.



Ignorance has taken birth only out of wrong belief that one is not realised. Therefore, the way to go back home is to first start having faith in the words of Guru and Self revelation, that one is Perfect and truly is realised, and by faith and trust in the words of Guru than one is never ignorant.



A Swami belonging to Sri Ramakrishna Mission had a very interesting conversation with Sri Bhagavan in the course of which Sri Bhagavan observed:

M.: Avidya (ignorance) is the obstacle for knowing your true nature even at the present moment.

D.: How is one to get over Avidya?
M.: Ya na vidyate sa avidya (What is not, is avidya). So it is itself a myth. If it really be, how can it perish? Its being is false and so it disappears.

D.: Although I understand it intellectually, I cannot realise the Self.
M.: Why should this thought disturb your present state of realisation.

D.: The Self is One, but yet I do not find myself free from the present trouble.
M.: Who says this? Is it the Self which is only one? The question contradicts itself.

  • (If the clouds really eclipsed the Sun,
    Who would illumine them?
    If a person were really annihilated by sleep,
    Who would experience it?

    For that by which ignorance is discerned
    Can never be ignorance itself. - Jnaneshwar)
D.: Grace is necessary for realisation.
M.: Inasmuch as you, being a man, now understand that there is a higher power guiding you, it is due to Grace. Grace is within you. svaro gururatmeti (Isvara, Guru and the Self are synonymous).

D.: I pray for that Grace.
M.: Yes, yes.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

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