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Messages - Nagaraj

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3121
Dear Sri Ravi, devotees,

yes, the object was to bring to light that thoughts need not be problem, too! While ignoring thoughts too is an important exercise, which i follow too, when i find my self being carried away by emotions. But at all other times, when there is peace, we need not really worry if there are thoughts are not, especially when one is content and aware and happy, and not under the sway of any stimulations.

Peace is important. Sri Bhagavan has said "It is therefore obvious that peace is the real thing, the reality; call that ‘shanti’, ‘soul’, or ‘Paramatma’ or ‘Self ’ — whatever you like. We all want it, don’t we?"


3122
Dear cefnbrithdir

Its wonderful quote "Become passers by"

I remember another quote from The Bible, 'Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself' explained further by Swami Vivekananda? as follows - Why? because, Thy neighbor is yourself. By hurting your neighbor, you are hurting yourself, by loving your neighbor, you are loving yourself. By seeing God in your neighbor, you are seeing God in yourself! You are God, Aatma, Chaitanya, You are that Self.

Dear Jewel,

I see it in the same light you have concluded, "to accept everything, means to love everything" when it is clear that it is the Same Self in all, as revealed in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad as quoted above. Everything that is, is "That" what can be different from "That"

There is a beautiful word in Sanskrit, Akhanda, meaning, undivided, unlimited, without any break or disturbance, whole, and so on,

Nothing, what so ever, can cause any Khanda (limitation, break, disturbance, so on)

in the same spirit of the great verse:

purnamadah: 'That is complete.'
purnamidam: 'This is complete.'
purnamadah purnamidam 'That is complete, this is complete'.
purnat purna mudachyate - 'From that completeness comes this completeness'
purnasya purnamadaya - If we take away this completeness from that completeness'
purnameva vashishyate: 'Only completeness remains.'

He realises that the flow of thoughts, are just purnat purna mudachyate, purnasya purnamadaya, purnameva vashishyate.

With this viveka, with humility, what can be a barrier, thenceforth? good or bad, heat or cold, pleasure or pain, He remains unperturbed, undisturbed, at peace. Samadhi.

A Jnani's thoughts are like this. i contemplate.. a jnani's thoughts are/is mirror for the Self.

For the one who has not had the darshan of this Purnatvam, there is Khandam, Limitedness, barriers, disturbance, humps and bumps, thoughts become barrier, and so on.


3123
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: September 19, 2012, 05:38:57 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Even Sri Bhagavan too, unlike popularly it is seen (of a renunciate of highest order, kaupina dhari, one who lived only with kaupina, etc...) lived his life like a millionaire. He had thousands of people who loved him, he accumulated a huge family, bound by love of Bhakti. His life does enunciates the experiences of an ideal human being.

It reminded me a verse from Mankuthimmana Kagga, which is very famous in the Kannada world,

An easy way to be contented, is to realise that it is a drama that is played on a stage, and, immerse oneself in it completely right from the begining. One must play ones part to the fullest of ones ability to entertain others, and, at the same time, one must be aware that he himself also is a spectator for the drama that is unfolding on the stage and enjoy the play as a witness as well, irrespective of whether it is a comedy, tragedy. If this is discerned, one will be the master, who rules ones world. This drama does not have any plot, neither begining nor an end, but it has rules!

(DV Gundappa, Mankuthimmana Kagga)


3124
Dear Sri Anil Ji, devotees,

I express below, some musings on this subject -

'Ignoring thoughts' is a useful process when one is agitated by thoughts and when one is predominantly under the sway of the emotions, the thoughts exhibit. But, I would like to bring into picture a different dimension to this. Self, is not some inert, lifeless, stone-like 'state'! We have seen the expressions of Sages in many scriptures, who have said in the likes that "That" is neither 'this' nor 'that' that is neither inert nor active. The word which is used to attitute to 'that' is "Turiya" which too, the Sages have said is only for the purposes of revelation alone and that, the very word is incapable of attributing "That"

One is asked to ignore thoughts, when one is controlled by thoughts, but, for the one, who is steadfast, thoughts are manifest by the will of the Self. For such a one, there is no requirement to ignore any thoughts. For such a person, thoughts are simply the waves in the ocean. Suppose one is walking down a busy road and happens to see a small puppy struggling in the middle of the road, it becomes his natural response to bring the puppy to safety.

In the quest for Self, don't you think, that thoughts and its suppression, restraint, is given too much importance over the true spirit of viveka itself.

Which is why, the words of all Sages have to be studied carefully, and preferably under a Guru. What the Sage says to one, need not be the same for the other.

Sri Bhagavan did say to the many to ignore the thoughts and remain still. But, the true purport ought to be seen with keen intellect. As it is said Yoga is Skill in action. So is stillness. Thoughts are expression of the Self. Brihadaranyaka Upanishad expresses the following:

In the beginning, there was only the Self. ... He
reflected, and saw that there was nothing but Himself,
whereupon he exclaimed, “I am” (Aham). Ever since, He has
been known within as “I.” Even now, when announcing
oneself, one says, “I am ...,” and then gives the other name that
one bears.

He was afraid. Even today, one who is alone is
afraid. But then he realized, “Since there is nothing else but
myself, what is there to fear?” It is only from [the presence of]
a second [entity] that fear need ever arise. However, he was
still unhappy. Even today, one is unhappy when alone. He
desired a mate. And so he took on the form of a being the size
of a man and woman joined in a close embrace; and then He
separated into two individuals: a man and a wife. Therefore,
as the sage Yajnavalkya has declared, this body, by itself, is
like half of a split pea. [In order to become whole again,] this
empty space must be filled by a woman. The male [half] then
embraced the female [half], and from that the human race
arose.

But the female wondered: “How can he unite with
me, whom he has produced from himself? Well then, let me
hide!” She became a cow; he became a bull and united with
her, and from that cattle arose. She became a mare; he became
a stallion. She an ass, he a donkey and united with her; and
from that solid-hoofed animals arose. She became a goat, he
a buck; she a sheep, he a ram and united with her; and from
that goats and sheep arose. In this way, he poured forth all
pairing creatures, down to the ants. Then he realized: “All this
creation is actually myself; for I have poured forth all this.”
One who knows this truth realizes that he, himself, is truly the
creator [living] within his own creation.

There is no question of ignoring thoughts once true viveka is dawned, that the thoughts are simply Manifested Self. Thoughts manifest/flow only at the will of the Self, unlike before, when thoughts flow/manifest due to fear of unknown. The ocean worry about the waves, when it realises its, just itself, throbbing. But, this may not hold true for a person who says he is thirsty being himself the great Ganges - as Bhagavan said.

The Self expresses itself in the form of Bhakti, Jnana, Prema, and so on, for the sheer joy of itself, knowing itself, loving itself. Like it is said in upanishads, one loves his spouse for his own Self and so on..

Sri Bhagavan came down when his Mother's shrine was built, he fed the squirrels, he communicated with monkeys, cow Lakshmi, Dogs, humans, he cleared and provided light to people, he led the devotees to safety, from the darkness of ajnana ignorance. He saved the broken egg with great care, he fractured his leg trying to save a cat from a dog chasing it, tears flowed when he heard the story of Kannapa Nayanar, he showed concern for his mother's health, he composed so many hymms in praise of Arunachala, he composed a prayer to Arunachala to heal his ailing mother.

Thoughts need not necessarily be untouchables. Thoughts are wonderful, They are verily the Self, yourself, ourselves. With the dawn of true viveka, ignoring thoughts also amounts to ignoring Self. Thoughts are great creation, manifestation of Brahma, thorough which the Self is able to become aware of itself. Otherwise, there is no way for the Self to know itself.

Sri Bhagavan has said that a Jnani's mind itself is Brahmam. Jnani's thoughts are verily the Vedas. His expressions and his thoughts only benefit and bless for its own Self.

.... some musings


3125
General Discussion / Prarabdha
« on: September 18, 2012, 09:07:03 PM »
आत्मानं सततं ज्ञात्वा कालं नय महामते |
प्रारब्धमखिलं भुञ्जन्नोद्वेगं कर्तुमर्हसि ||

Aatmaanam satatam jnyaatvaa kaalam naya mahaatmate
Praarabhdamakhilam bhunjannodvegam kartumarhasi (Nada Bindu Upanishad)


O' Esteemed Honored one, spend your life always in the knowing of the Atma/Self, enjoying the whole of your Prarabdha (destiny to be worked out in this life, resulting from the balance-sheet of actions in past lives) without making any complaint of it.


3126
General Discussion / Spirituality should ripen us
« on: September 18, 2012, 06:51:47 PM »
i have come to discern and believe, that, all our practices, sadhana, exposure to various spiritual literature, satsang, various Saints, company of the good people, should ripen us as a better human beings, more than even spiritual evolution. I believe that spiritual evolution is a natural fruit for a ripened soul. The Latter comes as a boon from God or Self as a gift  The very purpose of life is to be lived awake, feel and experience the joys and sorrows of life, in its full, express solicitude and gratitude for persons who have touched our lives in some way or the other, both, the good and the bad ones, they have all helped us, here today, where we stand. A life of Dharma, itself is Realisation. Sri Rama's life is a testimony to this. A life, being awake.

"There was a monastery in a certain place. The monks residing there went out daily to beg their food. One day a monk, while out for his alms, saw a landlord beating a man mercilessly. The compassionate monk stepped in and asked the landlord to stop. But the landlord was filled with anger and turned his wrath against the innocent monk. He beat the monk till he fell unconscious on the ground. Someone reported the matter to the monastery. The monks ran to the spot and found their brother lying there. Four or five of them carried him back and laid him on a bed. He was still unconscious. The other monks sat around him sad at heart; some were fanning him. Finally someone suggested that he should be given a little milk to drink. When it was poured into his mouth he regained consciousness. He opened his eyes and looked around. One of the monks said, 'Let us see whether he is fully conscious and can recognize us.' Shouting into his ear, he said, 'Revered sir, who is giving you milk?' 'Brother,' replied the holy man in a low voice, 'He who beat me is now giving me milk.' (Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa)

In the end, if our spiritual quest, does not help us in being a more considerate human being, it is not really worthy possession. All the rivers reach the ocean, so, any which way, whether one is in a spiritual quest of the Self or God, is primarily in a journey. The great Realised souls are genuinely known more for their compassion, the so many lives that they have touched, than their realisation.


3127
General topics / Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« on: September 18, 2012, 01:36:40 PM »
What is important in all  these experiences, its purpose is to give the experiencer a peak into the Stillness of the Self, that is Achala, and, Agrahya, ingraspable.

The repeated desire to experience this bliss, is, whether directly or indirectly, these experiences, relieve the expriencer from his worries and worldly woes.

A sharp sadhaka discerns the source of these experiences, the Self, God and does not give/lose himself to such experiences as the end, buut realises how small he is, before the Self, the All powerful God. A Jnani stops not and meditates further on the Source, that is unlimited and the Bhakta stops not. and engages in the praise of the Allmighty that is most Lord of all worlds.

One who has recognised or discerned the purpose of these transcendental experiences, worries no more, as he has seen the source of all these experiences.

Let us not forget that, Realisation is not a goal or an end to achieve. Realisation is simply a residue (which is also only for the onlooker alone) of the one who has seen the Source and reposes or surrenders or is humbled at the unlimited expanse of that there is, above all and before all and after all.

All sadhanas are bound to give some experience or the other, what is important is not the experience but the silence behind that experience, if one fails to notice that substratum silence, then any amount of spiritual experience would not be of any use other than just display any new powers acquired.



As regards to Kundalini,

Sri Ramana Maharshi mentioned that the kundalini energy is nothing but the natural energy of the Self, where Self is the universal consciousness (Paramatma) present in every being, and that the individual mind of thoughts cloaks this natural energy from unadulterated expression. Advaita teaches that Self-realization, enlightenment, God-consciousness, nirvana. But, initial kundalini awakening is just the beginning of actual spiritual experience. Self-inquiry meditation is considered a very natural and simple means of reaching this goal.

Question: Will concentration on Chakras quieten the mind?

  • Sri Ramana Maharshi: Fixing their minds on psychic centres such as the Sahasrara (the thousand petalled lotus Chakra), yogis remain any lengths of time without awareness of their bodies. As long as this state continues, they appear to be immersed in some kind of joy. But when the mind, which has become tranquil emerges and becomes active again it resumes its worldly thoughts. It is therefore necessary to train it with the help of practices like Dhyana (meditation) whenever it becomes externalised. It will then attain a state in which there is neither subsistence nor emergence.
  • The Self does not come from anywhere else and enter the body through the crown of the head. It is as it is, ever sparkling, ever steady, unmoving and unchanging. The individual confines himself to the limits of the changeful body or of the mind which derives its existence from the unchanging Self. All that is necessary is to give up this mistaken identity, and that done, the ever shining Self will be seen to be the single non-dual reality.

(From The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi, Edited by David Godman")
[/i]
Further readings - Talks 282, 392, 131


3128
General Discussion / Patience
« on: September 18, 2012, 11:39:41 AM »
A young man came to a zen master to learn about meditation.

The zen master asked, "Are you capable of waiting?"

The young man asked, " of course, how long?"

The master said, " That is enough for me to reject you"


3129
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: September 18, 2012, 11:29:51 AM »
Thank you, thanks to all for your love


3130
General Discussion / my musings
« on: September 17, 2012, 08:07:46 AM »
O Mother, what a machine is this that Thou hast made! What pranks Thou playest with this toy Three and a half cubits high!

God alone is the Doer. I say: 'O Lord, I do as Thou doest through me. I speak as Thou speakest through me. I am the machine and Thou art the Operator. I am the house and Thou art the Indweller. I am the engine and Thou art the Engineer.'


...remembering the words of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Thank you.


3131
Dear i,

friend, i genuinely discern what you have, and others have conveyed. Unfortunately, you see, i can only express what i truly can, what i truly see as the best response for every view that comes about, i express, keeping myself in mind each time when i express what i have expressed at various instances, as in, i have seen myself as the questioner and expressed what ever responses made at appropriate posts.

I see there is no possibility of discussions or sharing between oneself. i have observed and convinced only over various instances that each one is only conversing with oneself, when such being the reality here, it is absolutely contradictory here conversing.

Dear friend, once it is discerned, that, even knowledge cannot be shared, knowledge can only come from within, then it pings from within, what i am really doing? after all?

it is discerned that silence alone is best form of communication, all these words too, are meaningless. because, the moment there is conversation, there is just oneself.

my friend, i am not just running into some urgent conclusion. when there is impossibility of communication, then there is no purpose of communication here, when 'This' cannot be communicated 'There' the truth just smiles back, sarcastically, silently asking, what are you going to communicate? what is there to communicate?

As that witness, as that seer alone, what is there to communicate? Truth cannot be communicated or shared - this i discern. only oneself discerns it and yet realises that discernment itself false.

It thus, naturally reclines in silence, it reposes, simply! also i see, that what i am seeing are quite radical as well, such as there is no teaching, that there is none to be taught and none to teach as well. These are dangerous lines of thoughts - i discern. But, all i can say at these radical statements is only that, i have passed through these, i have faced heart shattering revelations as a listener that changed me for good. revelations don't happen in soft and cosy way as generally one would ideally want to attain to liberation. Unfortunately, in my own experiences, i have had to face shocking revelations of truth, the bare simplicity of truths discerned at various instances tremendously blows one away.

one has to face such contradictions, confusions, one does have to face it, yes, the various discernment of truth at various instances slowly drop away our preconceived notions that we are so stuck to. this verily like being killed at various instances, it is that shocking, and yet, funnily there is no death, one self remains being revealed truth at various instances.

Hence, i discern, silence is the best i could share with every one, isn't this a natural discernment?

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3132
Dear i (all)

yes, there is no point in discussion, and these are going to be endless. i see, i am no teacher, and, what has been expressed, as well, were not expressed with that attitude, i discern, the purpose of my being here is fulfilled, i am no longer looking for something, or am i eligible to express myself to anybody, as that is not my prarabdha, hence, i relieve myself to continue to practice just abidance.

Extremely grateful and thanks to one and all.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3133
Talk 601.

G. V. Subbaramiah, an Andhra devotee, mentioned something about time.
M.: What is time? It posits a state, one’s recognition of it, and also the changes which affect it. The interval between two states is called time. A state cannot come into being unless the mind calls it into existence. The mind must be held by the Self. If the mind is not made use of there is no concept of time. Time and space are in the mind but one’s true state lies beyond the mind. The question of time does not arise at all to the one established in one’s true nature.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3134
Dear Devotees,

When one is the Self, there is no relativity, no ignorance. When one is Pure intelligence or  Pure illumination, there is no discrimination and there is no so called DISCERNMENT either. Mind, jivas, Jnana, ajnana, etc., including all discussions on them, are mere words, from the stand-point of Absolute Reality.  ONLY THE SELF IS AND IT ADMITS NO DISCUSSION ABOUT IT. All these discussions are possible only from the stand-point of relativity and ignorance called ‘I’-conceit or the ego.  Yes, one is a baby, a child, a youth, an adult and then an old person. But the Essence remains the same all through different stages of life. Even this discernment is possible only from the stand-point of relativity only. AND FROM THE STAND-POINT OF RELATIVITY, THERE ARE ADVANCED SEEKERS AND THERE ARE RAW SEEKERS, SO FAR AS SHEDDING THE IGNORANCE BY SPIRITUAL PRACTICE IS CONCERNED, AS SRI BHAGWAN HIMSELF SAID. Otherwise, how can a certain seeker immediately realises Atma-swarupa the moment he hears the truth from the Guru and some take years to even recognise the ‘I am’ness in them and start holding on to It?

Dear i,

the stand point of relativity itself is Maya. it is like in a dream, some of them attaining realisation quickly and some attaining realisation taking long time. In dream, the same self manifest as somany other people and multiplies himself, but it is all the same self, in the end.

This question of relativity is just dream. Infact, there is no realisation, truly speaking. There is no relativity, there is no actuality. Both are false.

That is why Sri Bhagavan has said, For a Jnani, everything, every body is Jnani.

Please read this, stated in At the Feet of Bhagavan:

I AM NOT TALKING TO YOU!


MR. Noles, an Italian, not more than 30 years old yet well-read in philosophy, both Eastern and Western, and eager to imbibe the spirit of Sri Maharshi’s teachings, was at our Ashram once, and he had very many interesting talks with Bhagavan.

One morning Sri Bhagavan was telling of the state of a jivanmukta; how he is the ever-aware Self, the Witness-Consciousness transcending space and time and causation, the fullness of Being; how he is the non-actor, non-enjoyer, and yet at the same time the greatest of actors, the greatest of enjoyers, and so forth.

Well, this was too much for Mr. Noles to digest. He put a straight question to Sri Bhagavan: “Are you, or are you not, now talking to us?” By an answer to this question he wanted to know how Sri Bhagavan expressed Himself consistently. Others around eagerly watched for what would fall from Sri Bhagavan’s lips.

Sri Bhagavan gave Mr. Noles a meaningful look and said in a most emphatic tone: “No, ‘I’ am not talking to you.” In an ecstatic mood Mr. Noles echoed: “No; Sri Bhagavan is not talking to us; Sri Bhagavan simply IS.”

The devotees present greatly enjoyed this conversation.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

3135
Dear i,

thank you for explaining this beautifully.

therefore, does it not now discern that it is upto the (koLLvAr) each one to take it.

i am am no where insisting, i am some Vallalaar or am i making some statements that i have realised truth or something. In the very same spirit as above, i am just expressing what ever i am seeing, honestly, after all if, i am deluding, then i have to delude only myself first.

In this way, whether it is latching onto descriptions of truth, etc... can only be discerned about oneself alone, unfortunately, we cannot know about this of others, and i see, it is not important as well, if others are speaking out of anubhuti or simply faking what they are saying, if what is expressed is worth seen, taken and discerned, then that is pure wisdom.

Don't we take the medicine given by doctors out of faith? Everybody has to tap into their intuitive intelligence, take what is to be taken and disregard what is to be disregarded.

Therefore, each one takes what he discerns, it is completely upto the (KoLLvAr),

Now, (KoLLvAr), cant complain, this is not to be given, only this and that has to be given.

"Each one is already realised, only one has to claim it" but no body claims it. That direct has been Sri Bhagavan.

Therefore, from discussion in my last post, it follows that indeed ther are raw and advanced seekers so far as shedding of ignorance by spiritual practice is concerned.

Dear i,

To discern that there are raw and advanded seekers so far as shedding of ignorance by spiritual practice is concerned can be directly discerned as oneself being a baby, child, youth, adult, and then old person, But all throught He was the same.

In the same way, when we say, somebody as raw or beginners or advanced seekers, essentially they are the same. this movement of beginner to advanced is as good as being a baby, child and adult, but never has changed really.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

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