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General Discussion / The supreme compassion of Sri Ramana
« on: October 01, 2012, 08:23:45 AM »
I happened to stop by this wonderful article by Sri Michal James. I am reproducing it as below, from his blog:

Towards the end of chapter 10, ‘The Practice of the Art of Being’, on page 558 of the second e-book edition (page 589 of the forthcoming printed edition) of Happiness and the Art of Being, I give a translation of the nineteenth paragraph of Nan Yar?, which Sri Ramana concludes by saying:

... It is not proper [for us] to let [our] mind [dwell] much on worldly matters. It is not proper [for us] to enter in the affairs of other people [an idiomatic way of saying that we should mind our own business and not interfere in other people’s affairs]. All that one gives to others one is giving only to oneself. If [everyone] knew this truth, who indeed would refrain from giving?

On pages 559 to 562 of the second e-book edition (pages 589 to 592 of the printed edition) I discuss the meaning of this paragraph, and while doing so I write:

When Sri Ramana says that it is not proper for us to allow our mind to dwell much upon worldly matters, or for us to interfere in the affairs of others, he does not mean that we should be indifferent to the sufferings of other people or creatures. It is right for us to feel compassion whenever we see or come to know of the suffering of any other person or creature, because compassion is an essential quality that naturally arises in our mind when it is under the sway of sattva-guna or the quality of ‘being-ness’, goodness and purity, and it is also right for us to do whatever we reasonably can to alleviate such suffering.

I then explain that though there is little that we with our limited powers can do to alleviate the many forms of suffering that exist and will always exist in this world, we should at least take care to avoid contributing in any way to that suffering, and I conclude my explanation by writing on pages 561 to 562 of the second e-book edition (page 592 of the printed edition):

Moreover, in the final analysis, this world and all the sufferings that we see in it are created by our own power of imagination and exist only in our own mind, just as the world and the sufferings that we see in a dream are. If we feel compassion on seeing the sufferings of other people and animals in our dream, and if we wish to alleviate all such suffering, all we need do is to wake up from that dream. Likewise, if we truly wish to put an end to all the sufferings that we see in this world, we must strive to wake up from this dream that we mistake to be our waking life, into the true waking state of perfectly non-dual self-knowledge, by tenaciously practising the art of self-attentive being.

In continuation of this discussion about the final four sentences of the nineteenth paragraph of Nan Yar?, on pages 592 to 609 of the printed book I have incorporated a detailed explanation about the importance of compassion and ahimsa (a word that means 'non-harming' or not injuring, that is, not causing any suffering to any living being). Since this explanation is quite long, I will post it here in two separate instalments, of which the following first instalment is what I have written on pages 592 to 601:

However, though our life in this world is in fact just a dream, so long as we experience this dream we should not dismiss the sufferings of others as being simply unreal and therefore of no consequence. We who experience this imaginary dream are ourself a part of it, and hence everything that we experience or witness in this dream is just as real as we are.

So long as we feel ourself to be a person — a body-bound mind — who is experiencing this dream, we cannot but feel that the joys and sufferings that we are undergoing are perfectly real, and so long as we thus feel that our own joys and sufferings are real, we cannot deny that the joys and sufferings of other people and creatures are equally real and just as consequential. Hence, since we each naturally wish to avoid any form of suffering being caused to ourself, we should wish equally strongly to avoid any form of suffering being caused to any other sentient being.

Therefore, when Sri Ramana advises us to avoid interfering in the affairs of others or allowing our mind to dwell much upon worldly matters, he does not suggest that we should avoid such actions of body, speech or mind due to heartless indifference, but only that we should do so due to holy indifference — compassionate indifference, truly loving and caring indifference.

Sri Ramana never advised anyone to be heartlessly indifferent — uncaringly and unkindly indifferent — to the sufferings of others. On the contrary, through his own actions he clearly exemplified how compassionate, tender-hearted and caring we should all be, and how strictly we should avoid causing even the least himsa or harm to any other living being.

Though Sri Ramana seldom taught the importance of compassion explicitly in words, he did teach it very clearly through his own life — through his every action and attitude. In every situation, his attitude and his response through speech or action clearly demonstrated his unbounded love, compassion, tender-heartedness, kindness, consideration and ahimsa — sensitive and careful avoidance of causing any harm, injury or hurt to any living being.

Compassion, kindness and love shone through every action of Sri Ramana because that is what he was. His very being was itself the fullness of love — infinite and all-inclusive love. Because his seeming individuality had merged and been consumed in the infinite light of true self-knowledge, he was truly one with the absolute reality, whose nature is perfectly non-dual and indivisible being, consciousness, happiness and love.

He therefore loved all of us — each and every sentient being — as his own self, because he experienced himself as the one infinite reality, other than which none of us can be. He truly was and is the real and essential self of each and every one of us, and hence none of us can be excluded from his infinite love — his all-inclusive self-love — which is his own essential being.

Therefore the seeming ‘person’ that was Sri Ramana was a perfect embodiment of parama karuna — supreme compassion, grace, kindness and love. His kindness and love were equal to all. To him sinner and saint were all alike. He showed the same simple care, kindness, tenderness, love and compassion to people whom we may consider to be bad as he did to people whom we may consider to be good.

His love and kindness were absolutely impartial. He showed no greater love, kindness or concern for his most sincere devotees — those who most truly understood and put his teachings into practice — than he did either for those people who disregarded him, disparaged him or even ill-treated him, or for those devotees who were unconcerned about his teachings, or who misunderstood them, or who even tried to distort, misinterpret or misrepresent them.

In fact, if he ever seemed to show any partiality, it was not for those who loved him most sincerely, but only for those who had least love or no love at all for him. Devotees who loved him most sincerely, and who earnestly tried to follow his teachings by turning their mind inwards and surrendering it to him in the core of their being, sometimes felt that outwardly he seemed to ignore them, and to give his attention only to other less sincere devotees. However, if they understood him correctly, they knew that he outwardly gave his attention to those who were most in need of it, and that if he outwardly ignored us it was only to encourage us to turn inwards to seek the true form of his love, which is always shining blissfully in our heart as our own non-dual self-conscious being, ‘I am’, waiting to draw us within by its magnetic power of attraction.

The reason why he showed equal love and kindness to each and every person, irrespective of the fact that a particular person may have been the worst of sinners or the greatest of saints, was that in his view there is no essential difference between a sinner and a saint, between an atheist and a devotee, or between a cruel person and a kind person. He knew that in essence every person is the same single non-dual self, which he experienced as himself. If at all there seems to be any such thing as a separate person, he or she appears to be such only due his or her imaginary ignorance of the true nature of the one real non-dual self, which we all always experience as our own essential self-consciousness, ‘I am’.

Not only are we all in essence the same one non-dual self, but as people we are all also equally ignorant of our own true nature. Even our theoretical knowledge of our own true nature does not make us any less ignorant than another person who has no such theoretical knowledge, because this theoretical knowledge exists only in our own mind, which arises only because of our basic underlying self-ignorance or self-forgetfulness.

In our self-ignorant view, Sri Ramana appears to us to be a person like us, and even our honest belief and conviction that he is in reality not a person but only our own infinite real self is a faith that exists only in our own mind. So long as we experience ourself as a person, and not as the one infinite and undivided real self, we cannot experience Sri Ramana as our own essential self, but can only know him as a person, albeit a person immeasurably superior to ourself.

Therefore in our self-ignorant view, Sri Ramana seemed to be a person, and as such he seemed to see each one of us as a separate person. However, even insofar as he seemed to see each of us as a person, he did not see any essential difference between us. He saw us all as being equal in our ignorance of our real self. In his view there was no person who was any more or any less ignorant than any other person. We either know ourself as we really are, or we ignore our real nature and experience ourself as a person — a finite body-bound mind.

Since in his view we are all equally ignorant, we are all equally in need of his karanam illada karunai — his causeless grace, mercy, compassion, kindness and love. Nothing that we can do can make us worthy of his grace, and equally nothing that we can do can make us unworthy of his grace. Just as the rain falls on the good and evil alike, his divine grace and love is equally available to all creatures, including the greatest saints and the most evil sinners, the most brilliant intellectuals and the dullest of fools, the richest and the poorest, kings and beggars, human beings and all the so-called lesser animals.

His grace or love is uncaused because it is his essential nature. As the one infinite real self, he cannot but love us all as himself, because he experiences us all as himself. Since his grace is infinite, and not dependent upon any cause other than itself, it can never either increase or decrease. In truth it is the only reality — the one absolute reality, which is eternal, immutable and self-shining.

Though Sri Ramana is truly the one infinite reality that we call ‘God’, who is always making his grace available to each and every one of us by shining eternally in the innermost depth of our heart as our nearest and dearest — our own true self-conscious being, ‘I am’ — he manifested himself in human form in order to teach us that we can experience the perfect and ever-undiminishing happiness that we all seek only by turning our mind selfwards and thereby surrendering it in the absolute clarity of our own non-dual self-conscious being, which is the true form of his grace or love.

His human form was thus an embodiment of parama karuna or supreme compassion, grace, mercy, tender-heartedness, kindness, care and love, and as such no creature could ever be excluded from his infinite kindness and love. And though his human form passed away in 1950, before most of us were even born, his grace, love and inner guidance are ever available to us, because they are the one eternal reality that ever shines within us as ‘I am’, our own most beloved self. Moreover, not only does he always remain as our own essential self, but he also continues to be manifest outwardly in the form of his precious teachings, which are still available to remind us constantly of our need to turn selfwards in order to experience the infinite happiness of true self-knowledge.

In order to avail of his love or grace in all its infinite fullness, all we have to do is to turn selfwards and to drink thus at the source from which it springs. Though his grace is always helping us, so long as we attend to anything other than our own essential self we are ignoring it, and by doing so we are in effect closing the doors of our heart on it, obstructing it from flowing forth and consuming us in its infinite clarity.

His grace is the light of consciousness that shines within us, enabling us to know both ourself and all the imaginary objects that we have created in our mind. Both subject and object are illumined only by his grace, and without his grace as their essential substance and reality they could not even seem to exist.

However, so long as we attend to any form of object — whether the objects that we recognise as being only thoughts in our own mind, or the objects that we imagine exist in a world outside our mind — we are misusing the light of his grace, and we are distorting his infinite non-dual self-love and experiencing it as our desire for some objects and our aversion for other objects. Rather than misusing his grace in this manner to know objects, or expecting it to fulfil any of our petty desires, we should derive true benefit from it by using it to know ourself.

That is, our mind, which the distorted light of consciousness that we now use to know objects, is a reflected form of our original light of self-consciousness, which is his grace. Therefore if we turn our mind away from all objects towards the source of its light, it will merge in that source like a ray of sunlight that is reflected from a mirror back towards the sun. By thus turning the reflected light of our mind back on ourself, we are surrendering ourself to our original light of grace — our fundamental self-consciousness, ‘I am’, which is the true form of love that we call ‘Sri Ramana’.

When Sri Ramana manifested himself in human form, the compassion, tender-heartedness, kindness and love that he showed towards every person he encountered was an outward expression of the infinite, eternal, undivided and non-dual love that he experienced as his own self, and that always shines within each one of us as our own essential self-conscious being, ‘I am’. Therefore the impartiality of his outward kindness and love demonstrated clearly the absolute impartiality of his true inward grace, which is always surging in the heart of every sentient being.

The same love that he showed to all people he showed to every other creature. He did not consider any animal to be any less worthy of his kindness, love and compassion than any human being, and animals naturally responded to the love they felt in him, and therefore approached him without any fear. Numerous stories and incidents in his life have been recorded that beautifully illustrate his extraordinary relationship with both wild and domesticated animals — the tender-heartedness, kindness, care and love that he showed to them, and their reciprocal fondness for and trust in him.

Moreover, not only was he equally kind to and caring about individual animals of every species, but he also showed his strong disapproval whenever any person treated unkindly or caused any harm to any animal. He would not tolerate or allow people to kill even poisonous animals such as snakes and scorpions, and he pointed out that our fear of such animals is caused only by our attachment to our own bodies. He said that just as we cherish our life in our present body, so every other creature equally cherishes their life in their present body, and hence we have no right to deprive any creature of its cherished life, or to cause it harm or suffering of any kind whatsoever.

One very clear illustration of his unbounded and absolutely impartial compassion and love was an incident that occurred when he was a young man. One day while he was walking though a thicket his thigh accidentally brushed against a hornet’s nest, disturbing its numerous occupants, who immediately flew out in a rage and began to sting his offending thigh. Understanding their natural response, and feeling sorry for the disturbance that he had accidentally caused them, he stood quite still and, in spite of the intense pain that they were inflicting upon him, patiently allowed them to string his thigh until they were all fully satisfied and returned to their nest. In later years, when Sri Muruganar wrote a verse (which is now included in Guru Vachaka Kovai as verse 815) asking him why he felt repentant and allowed the hornets to sting his thigh even though the disturbance he caused them was not intentional, he replied by composing verse 7 of Upadesa Tanippakkal, in which he said:

Though the swarming hornets stung the leg so that it became inflamed and swollen when it touched and damaged their nest, which was spread [and concealed] in the midst of green leaves, and though it [the act of disrupting their nest] was a mistake that happened accidentally, if one did not at least feel sorry [pity for the hornets and repentant for the trouble caused to them], what indeed would be the nature of his mind [that is, how thoroughly hard-hearted and insensitive it would be]?
By his own life and example Sri Ramana taught us the great importance not only of kindness, love, tender-heartedness, consideration, compassion and ahimsa, but also of humility, selflessness, desirelessness, non-acquisitiveness, non-possessiveness, non-wastefulness, generosity, contentment, self-restraint, self-denial and utter simplicity of lifestyle.

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Bhagavan & Animals
« on: October 01, 2012, 08:09:01 AM »
A villager had a dream in which he was told to offer his next calf to Ramanasramam. He brought his cow and the calf to Bhagavan. The jungle around the Ashram was thick at that time and there were cheetahs. The Ashram people were perplexed and refused the offer, but the villager was taking his dream seriously and would not take the calf away. The mother cow had to remain with the calf to feed her. Finally, the cow and the calf were entrusted to a devotee in the town. The calf became the famous cow Lakshmi. She grew up and had three calves within a few years. She would come daily to the Ashram to have her meals, graze on the Ashram land, enter the Hall and sit contentedly near Bhagavan. In the evening, she would go back to the town as other women did.

Once Lakshmi came into the Hall. She was pregnant at that time. It was after lunch time when Bhagavan was reading the newspapers. Lakshmi came near and started licking the papers. Bhagavan looked up and said: "Wait a little, Lakshmi." But Lakshmi went on licking. Bhagavan laid his paper aside, put his hands behind Lakshmi's horns and his head against hers. Like this they stayed for quite a long time. I stood nearby looking at the wonderful scene. After some ten minutes or so, Bhagavan turned to me and said: "Do you know what Lakshmi is doing? She is in Samadhi."

I looked at her and tears were flowing in streams down her broad cheeks. Her breathing had stopped and her eyes were fixed on Bhagavan. After some time Bhagavan changed his position and asked: "Lakshmi, how do you feel now?" Lakshmi moved backward, as if reluctant to turn her tail towards Bhagavan, walked round the Hall and went out.


I looked around. Squatting on the floor or sitting in the Buddha posture or lying prostrate face down, a number of Indians prayed-some of them reciting their mantras out loud. Several small monkeys came into the hall and approached Bhagavan. They climbed onto his couch and broke the stillness with their gay chatter. He loved animals and any kind was respected and welcomed by him in the ashram. They were treated as equals of humans and always addressed by their names. Sick animals were brought to Bhagavan and kept by him on his couch or on the floor beside him until they were well. Many animals had died in his arms. When I was there he had a much-loved cow who wandered in and out of the hall, and often lay down beside him and licked his hand. He loved to tell stories about the goodness of animals. It was remarkable that none of the animals ever fought or attacked each other.

Mercedes de Acosta,

In the roof of the Old Hall, squirrels would build nests. Once, some new-born squirrels dropped on Bhagavan's sofa. Their eyes remained yet unopened and the size of each baby may not have been more than an inch; they were very red in color with fresh flesh, absolutely tender to touch. The mother squirrel ignored them. Now what to do? How to feed and attend to such tender things?

The baby squirrels were in the palm of Bhagavan. Bhagavan's face glowed with love and affection for them. While there was a question mark in the faces of those who surrounded Bhagavan, He Himself was happy and cheerful. He asked for some cotton to be brought. He made a soft bed for them. He also took a bit of cotton and squeezed it to such a tiny end, the end portion looked like a sharp pin. He dipped it in milk and squeezed milk into the tiny mouths. At regular intervals, Bhagavan repeated this act of compassion. He tended them with great care and love till they grew up and ran around. They did not run away, only ran around their 'Mother'. Kinder far than their own mother!

V. Ganesan

Once an Ashram deer was attacked by some animal and the wounds turned from bad to worse. Sri Bhagavan sat near the deer and held its face in his hands, looking at its tearful eyes. Sri Bhagavan sat like that for a couple of hours. Chinnaswami asked my uncle who was standing close to look after the deer and relieve Sri Bhagavan. Sri Bhagavan heard this but did not make any response. Sri Bhagavan sat there till the deer breathed its last. That was the compassion that Sri Bhagavan had for that deer. Soon after, Sri Bhagavan went to the hall. There is a Samadhi for the deer in the Ashram.

From: Dr. K. Subrahmanian,

General Discussion / Re: Mother Theresa
« on: October 01, 2012, 07:55:28 AM »
Dear Deepa,

As it is said, beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder, differences too, lie in the eyes of the beholder. That a Jnani has a prarabhda, also is only an onlooker's point of view. Truly speaking, it is said, Jnanis are not even bound by prarabdha. But, since we see a human form, doing some acts, moving around, it is said they have prarabdha.

Where is the feel of doership for one whose doership is extinguised? Their actions are Gods actions, grace. Their actions completely excludes selfish motives.

Even for Selfish motive, would any body go about caring people with diseases whom normally one would even hesitate to touch, even go near them? It is possible only by a soul whose mind has ceases seeing any difference between people, whose mind has ceased seeing any difference between disease, filth, dirt, nakedness. These days when people even hesitate to clean their own toilets.

As Bhagavan has said somewhere that Jnani is beyond all karmas, Agami, Sanchita and Prarabhda, and so called Prarabhda Karma of a Jnanis is only like the fan that continues to rotate after the power is switched off, for some time. when the power is switeched off, the Jnanis body functions in the spirit:

As the saying goes, in the :

PAROPARAKARYA PHALANTI VRIKSHAH -    The trees bear fruits to serve others.
PAROPAKARAYA VAHANTI NADYAH -           The rivers flow to serve others
PAROPAKARAYA DUHANTI GAVAH -             Cows give milk to serve others.
PAROPAKARTHAM IDAM SHAREERAM -        This human body is meant to serve others.

Paropakaram is the beginning and the end of all knowledge and even Self Realisation.

For a Jnani, since there is no doership, there is no Selfish motive, their body is just another name for Paropakaram - for the service of others, which is actually grace for us. Which is why, we worship the body of a Jnani, Shava Aradhana, they bury the Body of a Jnani instead of burning it, because, that Body is not just flesh bones and blood.

Jnani, even if he happens to abuse or conduct himself in an unusual way, that too, ends up as a blessing.

General Discussion / Bhagavan on Love
« on: October 01, 2012, 07:34:49 AM »
One who renounces desires actually merges in the world and expands his love to the whole universe. Expansion of love and affection would be a far better term for a true devotee of God than renunciation, for one who renounces the immediate ties actually extends the bonds of affection and love to a wider world beyond the borders of caste, creed and race.

A sannyasi who apparently casts away his clothes and leaves his home does not do so out of aversion to his immediate relations but because of the expansion of his love to others around him. When this expansion comes, one does not feel that one is running away from home, instead one drops from it like a ripe fruit from a tree. Till then it would be folly to leave one's home or job.

Question: Swami, it is good to love God, is it not? Then why not follow the path of love?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: Who said you couldn’t follow it? You can do so. But when you talk of love, there is duality, is there not -- the person who loves and the entity called God who is loved? The individual is not separate from God. Hence love means one has love towards one’s own Self.

Questioner: That is why I am asking you whether God could be worshiped through the path of love.

Sri Ramana Maharshi: That is exactly what I have been saying. Love itself is the actual form of God. If by saying, ‘I do not love this, I do not love that’, you reject all things, that which remains is swarupa, that is the real form of the Self. That is pure bliss. Call it pure bliss, God, atma, or what you will. That is devotion, that is realization and that is everything.

If you thus reject everything, what remains is the Self alone. That is real love. One who knows the secret of that love finds the world itself full of universal love.

The experience of not forgetting consciousness, alone, is the state of devotion (bhakti), which is the relationship of unfading real love, because the real knowledge of Self, which shines as the undivided supreme bliss itself, surges up as the nature of love.

Only if one knows the truth of love, which is the real nature of Self, will the strong entangled knot of life be untied. Only if one attains the height of love will liberation be attained. Such is the heart of all religions. The experience of Self is only love, which is seeing only love, hearing only love, feeling only love, tasting only love and smelling only love, which is bliss.

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: October 01, 2012, 05:32:11 AM »

I think, things have gone absolutely out of context. What was being communicated is that as a person evolves further in Self, the more, compassion, friendliness, equanimity, etc.. all these come automatically as a byproduct for the one whose consciousness just grows and grows further, and not just limited to ones own family and friends.

Patanjali says in his Yoga Sutra:

मैत्रीकरुणामुदितोपेक्षाणां सुखदुखःपुन्यविषयाणां भावनापश्चित्तप्रसादनम्
maitrî-karuñâ-muditopekæâñâä sukha-duïkha-puñyâpuñya-viæayâñâä bhâvanâtaå citta-prasâdanam

Consciousness settles as one radiates friendliness, compassion, delight, and equanimity toward all things, whether pleasant or painful, good or bad, as one practices and strives to abide constantly as the knowledge is discerned.

Sri Bhagavan also says:

I have said that equality is the true sign of jnana. The very term equality implies the existence of differences. It is a unity that the jnani perceives in all differences, which I call equality. Equality does not mean ignorance of distinctions. When you have the realisation you can see that these differences are very superficial, that they are not at all substantial or permanent, and what is essential in all these appearances is the one truth, the real. That I call unity. You referred to sound, taste, form, smell, etc. True, the jnani appreciates the distinctions, but he always perceives and experiences the one reality in all of them. That is why he has no preferences. Whether he moves about, or talks, or acts, it is all the one reality in which he acts or moves or talks. He has nothing apart from the one supreme truth. - Sri Ramana Maharshi, from Be as you are

Therefore, Compassion, is not something you can chose, it has to come from within. No compulsions to anybody about doing good to the society, or join or open a missionary and set up an organisation. I don't thing anything has been said anywhere.

Unpleasantness is created when Souls such as Mother Theresa Mahatma Gandhi have taken a beating. But, it is fine. They are such big souls, and they only engulf everybody with their love and compassion and love. No matter how a child is, the Mother still loves it. Was it a question about realisation? no not even that, it was a question of Humanness, primarily. Nobody is bound to force on to themselves, the "Joy of Giving" we just share here, what touches our hearts, and we take it if it touches our hearts or else, there is no compulsion.

Compassion, love is not some object somebody can chose, it is a Gift from God. If we want to say, then it is a product of the Soul, not of Mind and Senses. One True Self only generates Love and Compassion.

General Discussion / Selected quotes from Ramana Gita
« on: September 30, 2012, 06:47:59 PM »
Some selected quotes from Sri Ramana Gita:

  • Let knowledge be guessed by the sign of equality to all beings.
  • ... just as the limb gives assistance to the body, likewise the member of the community helps the community and reigns supreme.
  • It is said that a good brotherly feeling with a sense of equality is the supreme goal to be reached collectively by all members of the community.
  • By happy fraternity amongst themselves, the embodied beings get the supreme peace. Then all this earth shines like one house. When the men, the embodied beings treat each other with equal respect and have good brotherly feelings amongst themselves, great peace and harmony abound. Then all this earth shines like one house. The whole world shines like the one dwelling house of the entire human family.
  • [A member of the community] should conduct himself always by word, mind and body in such a fashion that it results in help to the society. He should also make his own men understand this.
  • Having set one's family in consonance with the community, he should make his family prosperous to ensure the prosperity of the community.
  • Peace is for the purification of one's mind. Power is for the growth of the community. Having established the community with power, one should then establish supreme peace.

General Discussion / Re: Mother Theresa
« on: September 30, 2012, 04:36:48 PM »
Dear Subramanian garu,
yes agreed with your views 100% sir.
M.theresa and others you mentioned might be great karma yogis.
Honestly people who compare her with sri bhagavan are a laughable stock for me..
Someone in this forum compared M.theresa to divine mother and sri bhagavan as father  :)  I wonder what about sri bhagavan's mother Sri Alagammal garu?
If few people think  M.theresa as divine mother then why not search for m.theresa devotees forum and why still hanging in sri bhagavan's forum?  :)

Prashant garu, you can emphatically say Nagaraj, instead of "Somebody" - i do not mind!  :D

well, if being a laughing stock, i am able to bring some laugh in you, i am worth it! I am actually happy :)

God bless you :)

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: September 30, 2012, 01:12:26 PM »
Dear Sanjay garu, Sri Ravi, friends,

with additional inputs by Sri Ravi, in his response to Swami Rama's post, yes, the Atma is neither a slayer or a slain.

The question is if we can sit in this abidance, without it troubling us, as expressed by DV Gundappa, in his Kagga (thread)

Everybody is a Saint, Everybody a Preacher,
Till, Life's tests comes and stands in front,
Inner secrets of nature (vasanas) then rise from the bottom
God is the only refuge then - Mankuthimma

This is the test, if we are able to live upto the knowledge that atma is neither a slayer or a slain in real, else, at least one must trust the ways of God which is mysterious and surrender to His will. I have conversed with others outside, somewhere they have this feeling that Bhakti is inferior to jnana, and they remain stuck in this knowledge and suffer with inner conflict, being unable to digest the truth as knowledge or are they even able to surrender to a Higher power, which seems inferior as they feel, there is no Higher power than the Self. They may not talk about it openly, as they themselves are not aware of it yet but the problem arises only when it is neither of the above, that is Samsara. That is Pain, That is agony of being unable to either abide in perfect knowledge or surrender to the Higher power. They also feel, that Bhakti and Jnana are conrary to each other, and Both can't co exist. Sometimes it would appear to me that Bhagavan was actually a great Bhakta and Ramakrishnar as a great Jnani. But the popular feel is the opposite! What can be said? they are both Jnani and Bhakta.

Either way, be it Jnana or Bhakti, Surrender is inevitable, the death of ego is inevitable.

Sri Ravi, wonderful post about, Master's word are so lucid, and clear.

Yes, I say to the Divine Mother: 'O Mother, I do not need to understand. Please give me love for Thy Lotus Feet.' The aim of human life is to attain bhakti. As for other things, the Mother knows best."

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: September 30, 2012, 11:28:42 AM »
Dear Nagaraj,Prasanth,Sri Ravi,Friends, I would like to say something regarding Prasanth comment on Ramana and Mother Teresa. My answer is not inspired with their saying,coz,for me,both are following their own way and thinking,but with reactions on that. The way i see it,Prasanth didnt said anything offending,and i would like to see reactions if instead Mother name there was Osho name,would everyone ask for respect. I Love Nagaraj approach and think it is beautiful and inspiring. But one is what i love,and another what is needed or not needed. Not everyone can be missionar and not everyone need to. What if someone had life without freedom,and his way to realisation is to shun all bonds and restrictions? He will not serve. Even,if i think that Nagaraj didnt said that in the first place,but is talking about goodness,idealistic view,and also Prasanth didnt offended anyone,but follow his own way. Like Nagaraj beautifuly said,live,live free,true to your self,follow your way and your nature.

Dear Friends, Just to add,not to put something which Nagaraj didnt said,not in that way anyway,i said folow your way and your nature. Nagaraj said live,live free,and for me,he have beautiful way and looking on life. That is not why i said all this,and i also believe that it is more important what kind of person someone is,than anything else,realisation too. But,i dont think everyone is like that,and i dont think that that can be chosed,but must come from heart. Also,i didnt saw anything offending there,and wanted to share my thoughts. And i would like that everyone should be respected in the same way. Only that. Not with like or not,but the way it is.

Dear Jewel,

you words are heard and they are very true. But in the same spirit, nobody also took Prashant garu's question as offending as well. Every response is an act of compassion, and i believe, we all respect each other for who each one truly is. I am sure, none of us are in any way, in any spirit against this spirit. Everybody are children of God. We are all from the same source. colours of cows are different, but the milk is one, people, the nature, leaves, flower, water are all different, but the soul is one, it is the same love, compassion that connects everybody. I am sure, we all respect the different aspects of the same source. And only when this difference exists, without the string (soul)  that connects the difference, that it breeds samsara, it breeds duality, the love that connects every different aspect is seen to be different, then a discussion takes place, as a form of compassion to simply go beyond these differences. Lord Krishna states, he would take birth then ad where there is decay in Dharma, does that mean, he is going to come in a form which we expect him to? no, he will take birth in the form of the Truth in our exchanges, and in the end Truth alone prevails, we all have to bow before this Truth.

The response may have seemed a little offending, perhaps because, (without any wrongful intentions) this topic of discussion, this thread, is just continuing since where it was left in the past in the following posts, which i am not sure, you are aware:

So, therefore, this is simply a continuation of that discussion, i am sure, we all do not want to leave any hard feelings, of-course, the discussion has to continue till the cause unites at one common goal that is God. This is the cycle of birth, and death, which continues from where it is left, and is carried along, to the next birth, until to a point, where there is no more re-birth at all.

I am sure, Prashant garu, you would agree. We are all here, to uplift ourselves mutually, with exchange of views, only in-order that, it help us go beyond differences people may be.

I believe, no matter, how different each person may be, how different path, each one may be, no matter, how different, the concept of freedom may be, everybody is still connected with the fine thread of compassion and love which is the same Self, which can never be different, no matter what ever else is different.

with love to one and all,

General Discussion / Re: Mother Theresa
« on: September 30, 2012, 11:04:10 AM »
Just curious How do we know mother thearesa attained salvation?  :) atleast incase of bhagavan there was meteor disappearewd in the sky.

Is not our faith or belief that she would have attained salvation?

Dear Prashant garu,

i have, posted a response to your question as above under "my musings", assuming you had posted this in that section. therefore, you would find my musings on this subject under that topic.

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: September 30, 2012, 10:09:10 AM »
Dear Sanjay garu,

i am not sure, if i really got a grasp of what you are asking. But, i felt like expressing as follows:

Since you listen to Guru Nochur's pravachanams, you would remember that, the Paramporul, like a mother, slowly and slowly, in order to feed the baby, keeps on telling various theories, and stories, like there was a horse with a horns and there was a barren woman, whose son sat on a white golden elephant, that flew in the air and crosses the 7 seas and so on... by which time, the child would have eaten its food, and the mother is happy, so is the child as well. Like these, for one who asks about creation, so many things are said, so that, slowly, out of this curiosity, that Paramporul, out of immense compassion, gives out various doctrines, and various interpretations various Gods, and so on, only so as to make the child finally eat the food of Jnana. Sanjay garu, there are millions of doctrines and theories, listen and read them so long, there is curiosity to know about creation and the ways of God. Listen to your heart, that knows more than any doctrine and theories, when the hunger satiates, what doctrines what theories and what logics? everything is burnt in the fire, not even the Vedas last then. The vedas themselves exclaim being unable to describe That which is. it bows down.

some humble musings.

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: September 30, 2012, 09:49:36 AM »
Dear Prashant garu,

A meteor disappearing or just vanishing into thin air like Ramalinga Adigalar, or a sun revolving behind their heads, these things are not the ones that help one know whether somebody is a jnani and these things do not determine a Sage's Mukti. When a Sadhaka is even pulled towards the path of Gods, even a little, he will know within his heart that such a being is Supreme Being. Even a strongest of egoistic person bows in humility before such a Paramatma.

There are so many articles written on how to recognise a Jivanmukta. Various complicated things are written, such as, they say, a Jivanmukta has dropped desires, he is like blazing Sun, above good and evil, mysterious, fearless, angerless, he is above 3 gunas, his state is beyond description, he will move like ordinary man, He has no Mine, I, duality, non duality, qualified duality non duality, and so many more, we can add on. This list can be endless. All these are quite tiresome and quite complicated. The question is, are we so evolved enough  to even notice and grasp these subtle aspects? If we truly could, there would not be any difference between the Jnani and ourselves.

You asked, how can we recognise a Jnani? can we? are we so evolved that we can recognise who is a Jnani or God realised person? How can one recognise a Jnani with the senses and a mind? It is impossible. That is why, living beings are blessed with Bhavam, feelings that sprout from heart. That of (He/She), in whose presence, your heart begins to melt like an ice filled with love, in whose presence, our minds bow down in humility, there our hearts rise and do the bidding, there peace permeates all over, every cell of our body is at peace, there is a sense of release, relief, as safe as being in a womb, security, one will be able to recognise a Mahatma, inspite of his ego, senses and the plays of mind there, one can know one is in presence of a Jivanmukta.

We can never recognise a Jnani through mind, but only by heart. That we have all some Guru, is a proof that we are blessed.

For, Truly, a Guru pulls one towards him only out of grace, out of compassion. And, even thought, we may be in search of a realised Guru, and find one eventually, (rather He pulls us), and when we do so, we actually are pulled and moved by his grace, not even by his realisation. I am sure, we are all pulled by Gurus like Bhagavan, Ramakrishnar, Shirdi Sai Baba, and others, only due to their compassion, love, grace, as a father, mother, and so on and never it is out of a recognition that such one is a Jnani, or a realised being.

Bhagavan said, only a Jnani can see a Jnani. Therefore, does it not mean, when we all see and know Bhagavan to be a Jnani, in those moments, aren't we also, not the same perfect Self? We have that within ourselves, we have the same nature here, hence beyond the senses and mind some force guides us, from within, what we call intuition, the grace of Lord itself that enables us to recognise the Paramatma. Avan Arulale Avan Thaal Vanangi, meaning, it is out of his own grace, that we are even able to worship his holy feet. I remember a wonderful quote of Goethe that helps to substantiate this:

Within the soul's pure place moves a spirit
unto a higher, purer and unknown
giving itself freely in thankfulness,
Reading the riddle of them no tongue can name

I truly believe that a Sadhaka's approach should be that everybody apart oneself is a Mukta:

Isavasyam idam sarvam yat kim ca jagatyam jagat,
All this is pervaded by the Lord, whatever is moving and not moving in this world.

When we, slowly strive to be like this, we are blessed with humility, our mind which distinguishes is trained to be humble. everybody out there is a mukta, everybody is my Guru, we get to learn and see the truth through everybody in some way or the other. Everybody is Guru Swarupa.

General Discussion / Ordeal of Guru Bhakti
« on: September 29, 2012, 10:03:10 PM »
Let us now see, how the second Cholera-ordinance fared with Baba. While it was in force, somebody brought a goat to the Masjid. It was weak, old and about to die. At this time Fakir Pir Mohamad of Malegaon alias Bade Baba was near. Sai Baba asked him to behead it with one stroke, and offer it as an oblation. This Bade Baba was much respected by Sai Baba. He always sat on the right hand of Sai Baba. After the chilim (pipe) was first smoked by him, it was then offered to Baba and others. After the dishes were served, at the time of taking meals at noon, Baba respectfully called Bade Baba and made him sit on His left side, and then all partook of food. Baba paid him also daily Rs.50/- out of the amount collected as Dakshina. Baba accompanied him hundred paces whenever he was going away. Such was his position with Baba. But when Baba asked him to behead the goat, he flatly refused, saying "Why it should be killed for nothing?" Then Baba asked Shama to kill it. He went to Radha-Krishna-Mai and brought a knife from her and placed it before Baba. Knowing the purpose for which the knife was taken, she recalled it. Then Shama went to bring another knife, but stayed in the Wada, and did not return soon. Then came the turn of Kakasaheb Dixit. He was 'good gold' no doubt, but had to be tested. Baba asked him to get a knife and kill the goat. He went to Sathe's Wada and returned with a knife. He was ready to kill it at Baba's bidding. He was born in a pure Brahmin family and never in his life knew killing. Though quite averse to do any act of violence, he made himself bold to kill the goat. All the people wondered to see that Bade Baba, a Mahomedan was unwilling to kill it while this pure Brahmin was making preparations to do so. He tightened his dhotar and with a semicircular motion raised his hand with the knife and looked at Baba for the final signal. Baba said - "What are you thinking of? Go on, strike". Then, when the hand was just about to come down, Baba said - "Stop, how cruel you are! Being a Brahmin, you are killing a goat?" Kakasaheb obeyed and kept the knife down and said to baba - "Your nectarlike word is law unto us, we do not know any other ordinance. We remember You always, meditate on Your Form and obey You day and night, we do not know or consider whether it is right or wrong to kill, we do not want to reason or discuss things, but implicit and prompt compliance with Guru's orders, is our duty and dharma".

Then Baba said to Kakaseheb, that He would Himself do the offering and killing business. It was settled that the goat should be disposed of near a place called Takkya, where fakirs used to sit. When the goat was being removed to that place, it fell dead on the way.

Hemadpant closes the Chapter with a classification of disciples. He says that they are of three kinds :

(1) First or best
(2) Second or middling and
(3) Third or ordinary.

The best kind of disciples are those who guess what their Gurus want and immediately carry it out and serve them without waiting for an order from them. The average disciples are those who carry out the orders of their Masters to a letter, without any delay, and the third kind of disciples are those, who go on postponing the carrying out of their orders and making mistakes at every step.

The disciples should have firm faith, backed up by intelligence and if they and patience to these, their spiritual goal will not be distant. Control of breath -- ingoing and outgoing, or Hath-Yoga or other difficult practices are not at all necessary. When the disciples get the above-mentioned qualities, they become ready for further instructions and the Masters then appear and lead them on, in their spiritual path to perfection.

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: September 29, 2012, 09:57:58 PM »
Sanjay garu,

The subject which has sprung has been the question over all ages, when so many killings were going on, what is the plan behind this? This is the one "space" or "corner" that tests even the more wisest and great Bhaktas, they fail to discern the ways of the Truth or God, they simply cannot grasp the ways. Lord Krishna could not stop the war. What could be said, if he willed what could not be achieved by him? he even indirectly participated in a war? What are His ways? mysterious, they are, which is why, in Russia, some groups are so confused, that they believed Krishna in Gita promotes violence and so on. But the fact is that Truth is much different from fact and Truth cannot be perceived by our normal ordinary eyes.

Upon reading your post, i was only reminded about the times Jnaneshwar and his Brother-Guru Nivritti. It was the times of tyranny of Muslim invaders, who tortured Hindus, destroyed temples and resorted in unreligious acts, of forceful conversion, taking away the hindu women and committed many atrocities that are unacceptable for any sane human being, who is simple and just even if not religious. I am reproducing from Swami Abhayananda's book, about such a topic, which was quite a magnitude as it seemed in the world war. Kindly read on...

“The wicked mlechhas pollute the religion of the Hindus every day. They break the images of the gods into pieces and throw the articles of worship into the garbage pits. They throw the Srimad Bhagavatam and other scriptures into the fire, forcibly take away the conch and bell of the Brahmin priests, and lick the sandal-paste marks from the women’s bodies. They urinate like dogs on the sacred Tulsi plant, and deliberately pass feces on the altars of our temples. They spit upon the Hindus engaged in worship, and harass the Hindu saints as if they were so many lunatics on the loose.

“With my own eyes, I saw them put a good woman to the test of faith. She had been accused of teaching the Hindu faith, and it was declared that she would be tried by having four large pots of water tied to her hands and feet, and then she would be thrown into the deepest part of the river. If she drowned, she would be ruled innocent. But she did not drown; somehow she escaped and made her way to shore. By the terms of this trial, this was taken as proof that she was guilty as a kaftar (non-believer in Islam). The naib-us-sultan then ordered her to be burnt. This I saw with my own eyes. Do you wonder that all our suffering people pray for the day when all of the Aryavarta will be free of these murdering fiends! But, my friends, God does not hear us. I fear He has forsaken us.”

All during the evening meal, the pilgrims were discussing among themselves what the old sannyasin had said. Jnaneshvar also pondered over what he had heard. He knew that all that occurred was ordained by God, was God’s own actions; yet he could not understand why the Lord saw fit to cause such pain and sorrow on the earth. Later, after their meal, as they sat round the fire, the old sannyasin spoke again:
“The times have become very hard in our country,” he said. “The Muslim tyrants with their ruthless armies of killers have taken the entire northern part of Bharadwaja, and have set up their kingdom in our sacred city of Delhi. Thousands of people are tortured and murdered daily. And I say it is only a matter of time before they cross the mountains and march on Devgiri itself. Then your people too will be slaughtered at Pandharpur, and your temples will be destroyed, your sisters raped and your children enslaved! Why should it be so, my dear friends? What can God have in mind to treat His people so?”

For a few minutes no one answered the old man; but finally, Changadev spoke up; “It is better not to question the ways of God,” he said. “The law of karma is impenetrable; but the causes of every man’s fruits in this life go back to lives before lives, and the cause of what comes to us now is buried in the deep recesses of the past, and cannot be known by the mind of man.”

“Yes,” said the sannyasin, “I know. I’ve heard all that myself. But look, if you go back to the causes of actions and you keep going back and back, mustn’t you eventually come to a beginning of all causes, and isn’t that God Himself? Eh?”

Jnaneshvar chuckled; “I think he’s got you there, dear Changadev; what do you say?”

“It seems to me,” put in the sannyasin, “it’s the noblest souls who suffer the most. Why? It’s the ones who trust in God, who are good and gentle — they are torn to pieces while the murderers grow fat, the liars get rich and the stupid grow more content. What of those good and honest men whom God tortures and drives to the river to drown themselves by their own hand in despair? What of the holy Shankara, or Isha (Jesus)? God tortures such men. He leaves them no place to sleep, with nothing to eat, with no friends to love and laugh with. And when they speak of God, they are beaten and despised among men. Is this a loving god, to make such a world? I ask you?”

Everyone sat quietly gazing into the glowing embers of the fire. Nivritti then spoke: “I think we cannot judge from the point of view of human values, whether what God has done is good or bad. It is as it is, beyond our feeble notions of good and bad; and in the end, when all the yugas are passed and we come to the end of the kalpa, all will be seen to be perfect in the beginning, perfect in its unfolding, and perfect in its end.” “Perhaps,” said the sannyasin; “but still I say that, if God’s world is one in which the good suffer more in proportion to their goodness, where the wise are reviled and the dull-witted are honored; where the gentle are persecuted and the mean are highly respected; where the seers are called ‘mad’ and the deluded are called ‘great’ — then God has done badly, and His world is not fit to live in.”

“That is one perspective,” said Nivritti; “but if He secretly upholds the good with strength in their sufferings, and gives contentment to the wise in their solitary lives, and fills the hearts of the gentle with the joy of love, and grants to the seers the vision of Himself, the knowledge and bliss of their own eternal Souls — then God has done well, and His world is a marvelous

The sannyasin remained silent. Jnaneshvar also said nothing. There was nothing more to be said; and so, one by one, the men wandered off to prepare their bedding for the night and to sit quietly beneath the stars, while nearby they could hear the voice of Muktabai, softly singing:

Rama Raghava, Rama Raghava
Rama Raghava, raksha mam
(Lord Rama, Lord Rama,
Lord Rama, protect me.)
Krishna Keshava, Krishna Keshava
Krishna Keshava, pahi mam
(Lord Krishna, Lord Krishna,
Lord Krishna, enlighten me.)

What could be said, like the saying in tamil goes, Arindadu Kai Alavu, Ariyaadadu Ulagalavu, what is known is just fistful and what is unknown is as huge as the world.

Sanjay garu, you know, this is verily the final test, on our trust of Truth, final test on our faith, that ceases to question the ways of God. We are nobody to question the God and his ways, we are not even an molecule or even the minutest of particle before the truth. This is the last bit of ego that needs to sacrifice itself before the Truth that is RUDRA, sacrifice of all knowledge, logic, all Rights as well. Not to question the Gods will. Ninnishtam en nnishtam as Bhagavan says.

I'll post yet another instance from Shirdi Sai Baba in the next post, which is thought provoking!

General Discussion / Re: Mother Theresa
« on: September 29, 2012, 08:24:02 PM »
Some quotes of the Mother:

  • Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.
  • I have found the paradox, that if you love until it hurts, there can be no more hurt, only more love.
  • Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat.
  • If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other.
  • Let us always meet each other with smile, for the smile is the beginning of love.
  • Love begins at home, and it is not how much we do... but how much love we put in that action.


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