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Messages - Nagaraj

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General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: October 13, 2012, 10:45:13 PM »
Why cling to the arrows shot at you?
Time heals you see.
Why hold so tightly
Do these things define you?
Do these things set you free?
Why inject yourself with these poisons of the mind
Why not let them go
Set them free.
Accept the choices you have
And your responsibilities.
Accept all that is, rather than "as it should be"
For what does define "you"
What will set you free
What if you never find great meaning
What if, in not clinging,
You find stillness

(Jeniffer Edwards)

General Discussion / Re: sandhyA vandanam - Discussion
« on: October 13, 2012, 06:42:48 PM »

I have not expected any responses for my posts, call it despondency, yes, it is painful to see (in general) that here, it is only either Ramana-way or Highway!

My going and coming back out of forum, is my personal choice I make, for my own upliftment, and i see Sri Bhagavan, absolutely quiet about it, and Sri Graham has always welcomed me back without any change in my presence, i do not see why my coming and going out should be a point of observation to others. People come and go, Life itself is like that, people come and go. As Bhagavan says, each has to attend for oneself, for the purpose for which we are here, people will come and go!

I have my doubts, yes, whether this platform is truly beneficial for me, hence, i see it for my betterment, if i have been going out or coming back. It truly throws questions to my conscience, whether the time i spend here, will help me nourish my spiritual evolution or only nurture ego in just trying explain endlessly where there is no purpose served, neither for the receiver nor the giver!

I think, it is my liberty to quit when i want and come back when i want! I have never shied away in coming back as I am, nor am I really worried what others would think about me, what is important is how am i helping myself to the betterment! That should not be a problem for anybody. This is my view!

with prayers,

General Discussion / giving and receiving of knowledge
« on: October 13, 2012, 06:08:14 PM »
ॐ सह नाववतु । सह नौ भुनक्तु । सहवीर्यं करवावहै ।
तेजस्विनावधीतमस्तु । मा विद्विषावहै ॥
ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥

saha nAvavatu saha nau bhunaktu saha vIryan karavAvahai
tEjasvinAvadhItamastu mA vidviShAvahai
Om shAntih shAntih shAntih

Om! May Brahman protect us (teacher and student) both! May Brahman nourish us both! May we both acquire energy (as a result of this study)! May we both become illumined (by this study)! May we not hate each other! Om, Peace! Peace! Peace!

This Peace invocation contains many beautiful sentiments, sentiments which have inspired Indian education — secular and religious — for a few thousand years. Teacher and student engaged in the pursuit of knowledge and excellence of character is education. It is a co-operative endeavor between the student and the teacher. The invocation expresses the idea of education as the achievement of knowledge and excellence of character in the context of a harmonious relationship between teacher and student; they are en rapport. The giving and receiving of knowledge leading to the remaking of man depends on the stimulus of such teacher student relationship. The teacher gives and the student receives not only ideas and information, but inspiration as well. In all true education, teacher and student are not mere individuals but personalities. Education, according to the Indian sages, is the lighting of one lamp from another lamp.

In our case, there may not be a teacher, but i believe we have to observe the same fervor!

Infact, in the literal translation, of the above verse, there is no mention of a Guru or disciple!

(Swami Nirvikarananda)

General Discussion / Re: sandhyA vandanam - Discussion
« on: October 13, 2012, 06:00:33 PM »
Sri Ravi,

That was a bulldozer :) thank you. yes, i have to, i will

with prayers,

General Discussion / Maithreem Bhajatha
« on: October 13, 2012, 05:27:09 PM »
Maithreem Bhajatha Akila Hrith Jeththreem - Serve with Friendship and Humility, which will conquer the Hearts of Everyone.
Atmavat Eva Paraan api pashyata - Look upon others similar to yourself.
Yuddham Tyajata - Renounce War
Spardhaam Tyajata - Renounce unnecessary Competition for Power
Tyajata Pareshwa akrama aakramanam - Give up Aggression on others' properties which is wrong
Jananee Prthivee Kaamadughaastey - Mother Earth is wide enough and ready to give us all we desire like a Kaamadenu
JanakO Deva: Sakala Dayaalu: - God, Our Father, is very Compassionate to All
Daamyata - So, Restrain yourself
Datta - So, Donate your wealth to others
Dayathvam - So, Be Kind to others
Janathaa: - Oh People of the World
Sreyo Bhooyaath Sakala Janaanaam - May All People of this World be Happy and Prosperous.
Sreyo Bhooyaath Sakala Janaanaam - May All People of this World be Happy and Prosperous.
Sreyo Bhooyaath Sakala Janaanaam - May All People of this World be Happy and Prosperous.

(kAnchi mahAswAmi)

General Discussion / Re: sandhyA vandanam - Discussion
« on: October 13, 2012, 04:41:47 PM »
Dear friends, who were eager for this thread, i am sorry, as i am discontinuing this thread (at least temporarily) as my heart doesn't seem to open up in continuing this thread with earnestness, as it is my perception that this is not conducive to the general "feel" in the forum. (please consider it as my weakness, which i need to over come) i do not want to post some thing with half heart. There are plenty of internet resources, one may easily dig out some nice articles which also explain the procedure well. sorry once again! I am sure, when i am ripe, my Guru will tap my head and re-kinder the same enthusiasm in continuing the thread.

with prayers,

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: October 13, 2012, 01:29:31 PM »
Sri Ravi,

Kindly do share (whenever you can) the kAnchi mahAswAmi talks on the subject, it would be really beneficial for my personal self, also thank you for sharing the shudDhananda bharatiyAr's incident, it really touches my heart even more and the song resonates even deeper from within. I am also reminded about the incidents that lead to the composing of kurai onrRum illai song, by sri rAjAji.

with prayers,

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: October 13, 2012, 01:04:35 PM »
Three things thats passing in my mind now, i do not know about rights or wrongs, i listened to my heart. i am not a saint yet.

ஆறுவது சினம்

Home sweet home! everybody is welcome to my home.

மதியாதார் வாசல் மிதியாதே

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: October 13, 2012, 12:29:44 PM »

I am not denying any time, very frequently i also scroll the poems of mAnickavAchakar and the immense feeling that it generates, the bhAvam, it is really impossible to describe. The only thing that comes to my mind is this song:

eppaDi pADinarO
tiruvadiyAr appaDi pADa nAn Ashai koNDEn shivanE


apparum sundararum ALuDai piLLaiyum aruL maNi vAcakarum
poruLuNarnDu unnaiyE

gurumaNi shankararum arumai tAyumAnArum
aruNagirinAtharum arutjyOti vaLLalum
karuNaikkaDal perugi kAdalinAl urugi kanittamizh sollinAl
inidunai anudinam

I desire to sing of you,
oh Lord Shiva, as your devotees (aDiyaar) sang!

As the saints Appar, Sundararar, Aaludaippillai and
Manivaasagar (MaaNikkavaasagar, a great Tamil poet) sang of
you with knowledge (also of the Truth of Brahman) and

As the great teacher Sankara (not a Tamil poet), dear
Thaayumaanavar, Arunagirinathar and ArulJyoti Vallal (a
reference to the poet commonly known as Vallalaar), their
oceans of compassion overflowing (karunaik kadal perugi ),
melting in their love for you(kaadhalinaal urugi), sang of you
sweetly (inidhunai) each day (anudhinam) in chaste tamil words
(kannith thamizh chollinaal), I also wish to sing.

Every words of great saints including Krishna's in the Gits have some verses that convey like the ones you have presented above. But  we should not single out them from the ocean of poems that they have expressed.

I do not understand, why you are so against the shAstrAs? they are nothing big pAndityam or some great Greek literature, the advise of shAstrAs are nothing but simple set of instructions which they lay for everybody to follow for their betterment.

Study Veda means not just studying Vedas, reading Sri Bhagavan's books daily, reading the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, chanting the regular prayers and prostrating before our Puja altar. Attending satsangs, being with the company of the good and spiritual people. going to pilgrimage to Arunachala, going to temples occasionally. Yes, the scriptures lay that everybody ought to perform the nithya karmas, they do not give a reason so as to not perform them unless, one is formally initiated into sanyAsam or be specially instructed as in the case of muruganAr by an authority such as Sri Bhagavan Himself. I understand each one has a personal equation with their Guru and God, and so, due to that love and intuitive communication, one may be convinced from within that one need not perform any nithya karmAs, but that is very personal, which cannot be revealed out to the open, general, is it not Sir? we give out, what is said by the Sages, one has to evolve and be able to decide for oneself, only when each one becomes so ripe, where the least bit of ego is annihilated, that is where perfect humility takes over. Such being the standard, is it not generally wise to remain and carry on with our lives as per the injunctions of our culture? The Karmas have nothing to do with Self Enquiry vichAra of Bhagavan. Atma vichAra has completely to do only with the mind alone. So, why should the limbs fail to carry on with the instructions of scriptures, let the mind be absorbed with the Self, let the body be only engaged in the activities as prescribed by the scriptures?

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: October 13, 2012, 12:26:27 PM »

वेदो नित्यमधीयताम्, तदुदितं कर्म स्वनुष्ठीयतां,
तेनेशस्य विधीयतामपचितिकाम्ये मतिस्त्यज्यताम्।
पापौघः परिधूयतां भवसुखे दोषोsनुसंधीयतां,
आत्मेच्छा व्यवसीयतां निज गृहात्तूर्णं विनिर्गम्यताम्॥ (१)

संगः सत्सु विधीयतां भगवतो भक्ति: दृढाऽऽधीयतां,
शान्त्यादिः परिचीयतां दृढतरं कर्माशु संत्यज्यताम्।
सद्विद्वानुपसृप्यतां प्रतिदिनं तत्पादुका सेव्यतां,
ब्रह्मैकाक्षरमर्थ्यतां श्रुतिशिरोवाक्यं समाकर्ण्यताम्॥ (२)

वाक्यार्थश्च विचार्यतां श्रुतिशिरःपक्षः समाश्रीयतां,
दुस्तर्कात् सुविरम्यतां श्रुतिमतस्तर्कोऽनुसंधीयताम्।
ब्रम्हास्मीति विभाव्यतामहरहर्गर्वः परित्यज्यताम्,
देहेऽहंमति रुझ्यतां बुधजनैर्वादः परित्यज्यताम्॥ (३)

क्षुद्व्याधिश्च चिकित्स्यतां प्रतिदिनं भिक्षौषधं भुज्यतां,
स्वाद्वन्नं न तु याच्यतां विधिवशात् प्राप्तेन संतुष्यताम्।
शीतोष्णादि विषह्यतां न तु वृथा वाक्यं समुच्चार्यतां,
औदासीन्यमभीप्स्यतां जनकृपानैष्ठुर्यमुत्सृज्यताम्॥ (४)

एकान्ते सुखमास्यतां परतरे चेतः समाधीयतां,
पूर्णात्मा सुसमीक्ष्यतां जगदिदं तद्वाधितं दृश्यताम्।
प्राक्कर्म प्रविलाप्यतां चितिबलान्नाप्युत्तरैः श्लिश्यतां,
प्रारब्धं त्विह भुज्यतामथ परब्रह्मात्मना स्थीयताम्॥ (५)

Study the Vedas daily.
Perform diligently the duties (karmas) ordained by them.
Dedicate all those actions (karmas) as worship unto the Lord.
Renounce all desires in the mind.
Wash away the hoards of sins in the bosom.
Recognise that the pleasures of sense-objects (samsar) are riddled with pain.
Seek the Self with consistent endeavour.
Escape from the bondage of ‘home’.

Seek companionship with Men of Wisdom.
Be established in firm devotion to the Lord.
Cultivate the virtues such as Shanti etc.,
Eschew all desire-ridden actions.
Take shelter at a Perfect Master (Sat-Guru).
Everyday serve His Lotus feet.
Worship “Om” the Immutable.
Listen in depth, the Upanishadic declarations.

Reflect ever upon the meaning of the Upanishadic commandments,
and take refuge in the Truth of Brahman.
Avoid perverse arguments but follow the
discriminative rationale of the Sruti (Upanishads).
Always be absorbed in the attitude (bhav) – “I am Brahman”.
Renounce pride.
Give up the delusory misconception – “I am the body”.
Give up totally the tendency to argue with wise men.

In hunger diseases get treated.
Daily take the medicine of Bhiksha-food.
Beg no delicious food.
Live contentedly upon whatever comes to your lot as ordained by Him.
Endure all the pairs of opposites: heat and cold, and the like.
Avoid wasteful talks.
Be indifferent.
Save yourself from the meshes of other peoples’ kindness.

In solitude live joyously.
Quieten your mind in the Supreme Lord.
Realise and see the All-pervading Self every where.
Recognise that the finite Universe is a projection of the Self.
Conquer the effects of the deeds done in earlier lives by the present right action.
Through wisdom become detached from future actions (Agami).
Experience and exhaust “Prarabdha” the fruits of past actions.
Thereafter, live absorbed in the bhav - “I am Brahman” !

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: October 13, 2012, 12:24:32 PM »
Reply #2579 on: October 12, 2012, 05:08:24 PM »

Quote from: Subramanian.R on October 12, 2012, 05:04:20 PM
You are not correct. Max Mueller read Sanskrit and even translated Rig Veda.  No doubt he worked for 40 years for this
great job, but what he gained was only a Sastra Jnana. He got a Sanskrit Pandit and learned Sanskrit. But that Sanskrit
pandit was not a competent guru to teach the Truth. Hence had to stop with sastra jnana only. Ganapati Muni was an
expert in all Sastras, but he never gained peace, peace is another name for Self knowledge. This he had to attain only from
Sri Bhagavan.

One cannot learn English only by referring to dictionary. He needs a competent English teacher.

Dear Sir,

I am not competent enough to respond to you, or pass my observation on Max Mular or Ganapti Muni. I would rather stick by my understanding.

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: October 13, 2012, 12:22:39 PM »

Just re posting some of my own Non-Ramana related responses from the thread "Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough", as Sri Anil Ji, expressed not to use his thread for Non Ramana related articles. Hence I am posting them for my own reference purposes.

Reply #2576 on: October 12, 2012, 04:38:55 PM »
When you read Sastras you will get only Sastra Jnanam.

When you go to competent Guru, as an ardent seeker, you will attain Atma Jnana.

Dear Sir,

The understanding that the Shastras are only limited to Panchangam and Muhurtham is incorrect. Shastas include the Shrutis, ie. the Vedas, the Dharma, that indicate the basic duties of people of different stations. The practice of Shastras moulds a person better.

Like the good parents mould the child with values and principles, so does the Shastras mould the person who is devoted to following them. In the path of spirituality, physical mother will not be of much help other than providing food and care, but the Veda Mata in the form of Shastras guide the person and shows him the proper way that leads one to the path of wisdom, light. One, who is able to perform the Shastra Jnanam knowingly or unknowingly only will lead him the way to his Guru.

Therefore to assume that by reading shastras, one gains shastra jnAnA and if one finds a genuine Guru, one gains atma jnAnA is not reasonable observation. Without shastra jnAnA one will remain incapable of finding a genuine Guru!

General topics / dharma shAstrAs - brief article
« on: October 13, 2012, 11:28:21 AM »
A brief article on dharma shAstrAs

shAstrAs are meant to guide and regulate the life of human beings, and not other beings. They prescribe what is good for man and prohibit what is bad for him. To yearn for that which gives happiness, and shun that which causes misery, is quite natural. To acertain the means of happiness of otherwise, one should have intelligence and experience. Since everyone is not endowed with these, our shAstrAs have come into being. It is only through the shAstrAs that we can get to know correctly what the means of happiness are and what the causes of unhappiness.

Happiness is a state of mind and cannot be gauged by the quality or quantioty of external possessions.

Therefore happiness is practically identical with the feeling of rest or peace and this is obtainable by one who faithfully follows the dictates of the shAstrAs. shradDha or faith and dharmA or right action are the cause of happiness.

We the poor mortals, are imcompetent to comment on or find fault with the dharma shAstrAs because their main purpose is the welfare of all human beings. If anyone dared to express his independent opinion of these time-tested shAstrAs it would be of a little avail.

The prime requisite in dharmA is anushTAna (practice or performance, acting in conformity to). shAstrAs should not be a subject for a lecture or an intellectual discussion, but should be a code of conduct. It is better to practice one great principle in life rather than acquire mastery over a hundred texts. The greater the learning a man has, the greater his tendency to be disputatious. Argumentation and ratiocination might enable one to display one's debating skill, one's command of language and gripover facts, butu it helps nobody. It may fetch one his bhukti (food) but it cannot furnish him his mukti (salvation). There is certainly no point in engaging oneself in needless controversies and disputes, or in writing learned treatises decrying other faiths and sects. Such disputes and such treatises generate more heat than light and sour human relationship.

So long as men have full faith in dharmA they are happy. The moment their faith in dharmA and karmA lessens their happiness also lessens. Whenever you find happiness, believe it, that it is on account of faith in dharmA and karmA. Both these (dharmA and karmA) are the very source and substance of happiness.

svadharmA (one's own religion, please also refer Gita C-3, V-35) is like one's own mother, you ought not to insult your own mother and shower praises on another. Do you think that God has favoured you with such high power of iintellect that you can claimto sit in judgement over the intellects of other faiths? the aim of dharmA shAstrAs is to make a Christian a better Christian, a Hindu a better Hindu and so on.

In order to reach the goal of vEdAntA which is AtmajnAnA, it is absolutely necessary to keep the mind stable and in stritct control. There are four generally accepted methods for this:
  • The first is physical - avoidance of all stimulating food, drink and adoption as far as possible, of the vegetaria diet.

  • Secondly, moral - the daily exercise of universal love without distinction of any kind towards all beings and the actual rendering of helpful service to them in aspirit of selfless service.

  • Thirdly, mental - the cultivation of a habit of retiring into one's own Self. Daily concentration of thought on some simple object held in the highest reverence (Self enquiry, appropriate to Ramana devotees) concentration should be practiced whenever the mind is fresha nd vigorous. The mind should be guarded against falling asleep during the exercise.

  • Fourthly, intellectual - enquiry or vichAra should be made everyday and the problems of truth deeply pondered over whenever they occur. Edifying books, enlightened company or satsang, honest and objective discussions with God realised souls and the grace of kripa of the Guru who has had AtmasAkShAtkArA - all these go a long way in the fulfilment of the fourt5h condition.
The goal of vEdAntA is realization of brahman. And brahman is of the nature of eternal knowledge and of pure bliss. brahman is bereft of cause and effect relation.. brahman is nirguna, eternal, ever identical (not changing) and unitary (quotes from vivEkachUDAmani)

(Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal, sringEri)

General Discussion / Re: sandhyA vandanam - Discussion
« on: October 13, 2012, 11:09:35 AM »
Sri Tushnim

in the below picture, the boys are seated in squatting posture, the hands must be within the thighs in performing the kriya. If this is difficult, one may sit ordinarily in sukhAsana.

Starting from left, the first boy, the third and the fifth boy seem to be sitting correctly.

I will mention about the procedure for arghya pradAnam, the timings in the other thread. We cannot perform arghya pradAnam, just like that, there is a procedure to first cleanse ourselves within and without, which we will go through in coming posts.

General Discussion / Re: sandhyA vandanam - Discussion
« on: October 13, 2012, 10:13:51 AM »

you had asked to clarify your doubts, i have and am finding several quotes of what various Sages have go to say over your doubts. But, i felt, this is secondary, primarily, it is important to learn the kriyA first, and as and when, at leisure, i will keep posting what the Sages and shAshtrA's have got to say, so keep tuned here. Right now, i feel, it is more important to begin the procedure, and i would like to put first focus on that and then the second focus on these questions.

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