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Messages - Nagaraj

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271
General topics / Re: Thirukural Thread
« on: February 06, 2015, 10:37:50 AM »


Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

272
Mother?s Liberation

Mother?s health started deteriorating from 1920. On the 19th of May 1922, her condition became critical. After his morning walk Ramana want to her room at about 8 a.m., and sat beside her. Throughout the day, he had his right hand on her spiritual heart, on the right side of the chest and his left hand on her head. Ramana took on the sacred assignment of liberating his mother from the travails of births. He had the power to bestow liberation. But he let her battle for it while at the same time he extended his gracious and invaluable support for it to fructify. What happened has been described by Ramana himself. ?The vasanas of the previous births and latent tendencies which are seeds of future births came out. She was observing one after another the scenes of experiences arising from remaining vasanas. As a result of a series of such experiences she was working them out.? Later someone asked Ramana to explain the process to which he replied, ?You see, birth experiences are mental. Thinking is also like that, depending on samskaras (tendencies). Mother was made to undergo all her future births in the comparatively short time.? At 8 p.m., her mind was absorbed in the heart and she was liberated from all tendencies which give rise to future births. Even so Bhagavan waited for some time. For in the case of his faithful attendant of many years Palaniswami, he had done the same thing. But after the subsidence of the mind in the heart, Palaniswami had opened his eyes momentarily and the life force left the body though them. After a few minutes Ramana got up. When someone said that mother has passed away, Ramana immediately corrected and affirmed, ?She did not pass away. ?Adangi Vittadu, Addakam? (?absorbed?).? He added, ?There is no pollution. Let us eat.?

   

273
Dear Subramanian Sir,

Your post on Puri Shankaracharya prompted me to post this one beautiful incident from the Letters. Puri Shankaracharya was none other than Bharati Krishna Tirtha Swamiji, who is known as the father of Vedic Mathematics. He was a scholar par excellence and he has composed over 3300 sanskrit shlokas in praise of all Gods in the spirit of Sanathana Dharma. I present a couple of interesting incidents:

By February 1949, all the jobs were almost completed and the consecration was fixed for 17 March 1949. In that context the lingam [?] etc. which were at another spot were brought and placed at the new place and abhishekam of the temple crest was performed according to the procedures prescribed in the sastras. All the rituals were carried out over a period of three days. The Puri Sankaracharya also participated in the function. Though a separate elevated seat was offered to him befitting his status he declined it and sat on the floor over a deer skin near Bhagavan. During his conversation with Bhagavan he asked for a clarification of a particular scriptural saying. After Bhagavan gave the reply, the Sankaracharya repeated that he could still not grasp the point. Thereupon Bhagavan looked at him bestowing his grace for about half an hour. The Sankaracharya shut his eyes and with tears flowing down he bent before Bhagavan and said that he had understood the subject. As the Sri Chakra was to be laid in the shrine and as he was an adept at it, the Sankaracharya himself volunteered to attend to the job.



9th January, 1949
About a week or ten days ago, the Puri Sankaracharya came here. His meeting with Bhagavan was something unique. As the arrival of the Acharya was known beforehand, the Sarvadhikari made all the required arrangements for the occasion. As you know, Bhagavan has been staying only in the Jubilee Hall during daytime. On the day of the arrival of the Acharya, devotees spread a tiger skin on Bhagavan couch and decorated it in a fitting manner. By the side of the couch, a suitable seat was arranged for the Acharya also. After Bhagavan had been out for his afternoon walk at 3 p.m. and had returned and resumed his seat on the couch, the devotees as usual prostrated before him and sat down.

The Acharya arrived at the Ashram at the appointed hour, went to his lodging in the Veda Patasala (School for Scriptures), made his ablutions and then, accompanied by his disciples, came to Bhagavan's presence. At the time of his coming, Bhagavan sat cross-legged in
his usual padmasana pose and with his characteristic silence.

The Acharya came to Bhagavan with his Danda (the staff of an ascetic) and saluted him. Bhagavan nodded his head in acceptance of the salutations and with great regard requested him by signs to sit on the seat arranged for him. He did not, however, sit there but sat down nearby on a deerskin and began looking at Bhagavan with a fixed stare. Bhagavan too looked at him with an unwavering and compassionate look.

Neither spoke. The audience also kept perfect silence like the still waters of a great lake. For about half an hour, both of them remained absolutely still like that, exemplifying the relationship between devotion and compassion. At that time, Bhagavan's face shone like the illumination of a crore of sun gods. Because of that brilliance, the faces of the people who came to witness this scene also blossomed like lotus flowers.

A glorious voice saying, 'What a splendour on Bhagavan's face? appeared to ring in the hearts of all the people there.

One amongst them spontaneously said, It will be very good indeed if someone takes a photo now.? As though the silence were disturbed by those words, the Acharya got up, respectfully asked for permission to leave, and went away to his lodging.

Seeing all this, I was reminded of Sri Dakshinamurthy who came to the earth to initiate Sanaka, Sanandana and others. Vriddah Sishya Gurur yuva? (The disciples are old and the Guru is young). Similarly, the Acharya is a very old man and in contrast Bhagavan appeared to be a young man.

The place also appeared at the time to be similar. The flower garden to the right was like Nandavanam; the Arunachala Hill at the back like Mount Kailas; the almond tree to the left, with its several branches, like a banyan tree; and the open space in front with a sea of human faces which had blossomed as if they were lotus flowers, like the great lake Manasarovar. Like the saying, 'Gurosthu Mouna Vyakhyanam Sishyasthu Chhinnasamsayah' (The Guru's sermon was 'Silence' and the doubts of the disciples were cleared). The Acharya
did not ask any questions that day. It seems that before he came here, he had written regarding his doubts as to the sentence in the Agama Sastra beginning with 'Haragowri Samyoge. Avachhaya Yogah'? The Ashram authorities did not reply to him giving Bhagavan's views as they felt that the matter could be explained when the Acharya came here.

Hence when the next day the Acharya asked Bhagavan about it, Bhagavan replied saying, 'What is there? It is a well known thing. 'Avachhaya Yogam' means, when the force that is engaged in doing things, i.e., mano vritti (action of the mind) becomes pure and merges in Hara (Lord Siva), and when the shadow of the Self (Atma) falls on that force, it is called 'Avachhaya Yogam'. The Acharya said he did not understand it. Bhagavan thereupon spread his benign look over him for about half an hour. The Acharya's eyes got closed involuntarily. After experiencing indescribable bliss and with tears of joy and with hands folded on his head, he said, 'Bhagavan, I have now understood it, and assuring us that he would be back by the time the Kumbhabhishekam (consecration ceremony) is performed, he left on pilgrimage
to the south accompanied by his disciples.



What a humility, from a person none other than the stature of a "Shankaracharya"


274
General topics / Re: Maha Kavi Bharati's Birthday - 11.12.2014
« on: January 21, 2015, 11:21:10 AM »
Krishnan,

Let me provide the english translation, That is a wonderful expression from Sanku or Conch. As Sri Ravi said, it is to be read in complete. it is a blunder to pick up lines to suit our argument. I would again like to lay stress in the backing of spiritual sadhana by the support of nithyakarma anushthanam. One must be purify oneself inorder to progress in the path of spirituality. Chitta Shuddhi is inevitable. Jnana without chitta shuddhi becomes an itch. one cannot handle the truth. Bhagavan has said in Ramana Gita "Without  upasana there cannot be attainment for him this is definite. (Ramana Gita)" A strict physical and mental discipline is a must only so that we do not give way to our mind to play spoil sport. We need to evaluate ourselves, how serious we are in this pursuit and be willing to follow the instructions of the Guru unconditionally. And more importantly, we should exercise restraint from passing slandering comments. It amounts to Guru Nindanai. I hope you take these in spirit.

செத்தபிறகு சிவலோகம் வைகுந்தம்
 சேர்ந்திடலா மென்றே எண்ணி யிருப்பார்
 பித்த மனிதர்,அவர் சொலுஞ் சாத்திரம்
 பேயுரை யாமென்றிங் கூதேடா சங்கம்!

Hey conch blow loudly here that
the teaching of the foolish men
who think that one can reach Kailaasa or Vaikunta after death,
is the prattle of the dead spirit!

இத்தரை மீதினி லேயிந்த நாளினில்
 இப்பொழு தேமுக்தி சேர்ந்திட நாடிச்
 சுத்த அறிவு நிலையிற் களிப்பவர்
 தூயவ ராமென்றிங் கூதேடா சங்கம்!

Hey conch blow loudly here that
the men of purified minds,
  enjoy the bliss of the taintless Consciousness,
desiring the state of liberation,
at this very moment, on this very day,
in this very earth!

பொய்யுறு மாயையைப் பொய்யெனக் கொண்டு,
 புலன்களை வெட்டிப் புறத்தில் எறிந்தே
 ஐயுற லின்றிக் களித்திருப்பாரவர்
 ஆரிய ராமென்றிங் கூதேடா சங்கம்!

Hey conch blow loudly here that
these noble men
have understood that the Maayaa which is in the form of this unreality
 is unreal;
 have cut off the senses and thrown them away;
and remain in the blissful state,
without any apprehensions or doubts.

மையுறு வாள்விழி யாரையும் பொன்னையும்
 மண்ணெனக் கொண்டு மயக்கற்றிருந்தாரே,
 செய்யுறு காரியம் தாமன்றிச் செய்வார்
 சித்தர்க ளாமென்றிங் கூதேடா சங்கம்!

Hey conch blow loudly here that
these Siddhas,
(who have accomplished the Highest goal of life ??attaining the Supreme?)
who consider
the pretty girls with sword-like eyes decorated by collirium,
and the gold,
both as equal to worthless mud;
and remain without any attraction.
They perform all the actions without the idea of doership!




Question: The Puranas say that liberation means living in Kailash Vaikunta, or Brahmaloka [the hindu heavens], and having darshan [sight] of God there. Is this correct? Or does liberation only come when one merges with the Absolute[Brahman] in the state where there is no knowledge of the body, the world and the mind?

Ramana: Living in Vaikunta and Kailash is not liberation. If everyone goes to Kailash and Vaikunta, where will be space for everyone to live? If I must live and enjoy bliss with God, then God must be inert [jada]. If he is inert, where can we enjoy bliss?

275
General topics / Re: Maha Kavi Bharati's Birthday - 11.12.2014
« on: January 20, 2015, 12:04:27 PM »
Dear krishnan,

Your views are unsubstantiated and lack authenticity and a study of Bharatiyar and knowledge of history and facts and insight. Your expressions reveal your understanding of your knowledge of Bharatiyars expressiobs quite openly. Therefore they stand no validity and justification.

--

276
General topics / Re: Maha Kavi Bharati's Birthday - 11.12.2014
« on: January 20, 2015, 09:45:09 AM »
குள்ளச்சாமி புகழ்

IN PRAISE OF KULLASAAMI

(KullaSaami literally means the saint who was short in stature. A realized knower need not always become famous and renowned and run an Ashram to attract devotees. He might be any idiot-looking guy on the street. These realized saints do not even have a name proper as  they do not identify with their physical bodies. KullaSaami is one such saint who was called so because of his small height. He is also known as Chidambara Desikan, MaangottaiSaamitthevan (Mango-Seed Saint) and Kumaaratthevan. )

ஞானகுருதேசிகனைப் போற்றுகின்றேன்
 நாடனைத்துந்தானாவான் நலிவிலாதான்
 மோனகுரு திருவருளால் பிறப்பு மாறி
 முற்றிலும்நாமமரநிலை சூழ்ந்துவிட்டோம்
 தேனனைய பராசக்தி திறத்தைக் காட்டிச்
 சித்தினியல் காட்டி மனத்த்தெளிவு தந்தான்
 வானகத்தையிவ்வுலகிலிருந்து தீண்டும் வகையுணர்த்திக்
 காத்தபிரான் பதங்கள் போற்றி!

I worship the great guru of Knowledge.
He is the Self of all that is there in the world.
He is never distressed.
By the grace of the Silent teacher,
we changed the birth state,
and have been completely drowned in the immortal state (of Brahman).
He revealed to me the excellence of ParaaShakti
who is blissfully sweet like honey.
He revealed the nature of Chit (the manifest Brahman)
and gave clarity to my mind.
Salutation to the feet of the great one,
who taught me how to touch the sky above,
from this earth itself.

எப்போதுங் குருசரணம் நினைவாய் நெஞ்சே!
எம்பெருமான் சிதம்பரதேசிகந்தாள் எண்ணாய்!
முப்பாழுங்கடந்த பெருவெளியைக் கண்டான்
முத்தியெனும் வானகத்தே பரிதியாவான்
தப்பாத சாந்தநிலை அளித்த கோமான்
தவநிறைந்த மாங்கொட்டைச் சாமித்தேவன்
குப்பாய ஞானத்தால் மரணமென்ற குளிர்நீக்கி
யெனைக்காத்தான் குமாரதேவன்!

Always think of the feet of the Guru, hey mind.
Know that he is the great teacher Chidambara Desikan.

He saw the great expanse of Brahman
after crossing over the three states of existence.
(waking, dream, and deep sleep)

He is the Sun shining in the sky of liberation.
He is the great Lord who gave the state of ever-lasting quiescence.
He, the Maangottai Saamitthevan is a great man of penance.

Kumaaratthevan had the knowledge of the covering sheaths (of the Self)
and saved me by removing the cold named death.

தேசத்தாரிவன்பெயரைக்
குள்ளச்சாமி தேவர்பிரான் என்றுரைப்பார்
தெளிந்த ஞானி
பாசத்தையறுத்துவிட்டான் பயத்தைச் சுட்டான்
பாவனையாற் பரவெளிக்கு மேலே தொட்டான்
நாசத்தையழித்துவிட்டான் யமனைக் கொன்றான்
ஞானகங்கைதனை முடிமீதேந்தி நின்றான்
ஆசையெனும் கொடிக்கொரு தாழ்மரமே போன்றான்

People called him by the name of KullaSaami Devar Piraan.
He is a realized knower.
He cut off the shackles of attachment.
He burnt off the fear.
Through contemplation he touched that
which transcends the supreme expanse of the world.
He destroyed destruction.
He killed Yama.
He wore the Gangaa of knowledge on the locks of his head.
He became the log on the ground pulling the desire creeper down.

ஆதியவன் சுடர்பாதம் புகழ்கின்றேனே
வாயினாற் சொல்லிடவுமடங்காதப்பா
வரிசையுடனெழுதிவைக்க வகையுமில்லை
ஞாயிற்றைச் சங்கிலியாலளக்கலாமோ?
ஞானகுரு புகழினை நாம் வகுக்கலாமோ?
ஆயிரனூ லெழுதிடினும் முடிவுறாதாம்
ஐயனவன் பெருமையை நான் சுருக்கிச் சொல்வேன்
காயகற்பஞ்செய்துவிட்டான்
அவன் வாழ்நாளைக்கணக்கிட்டு வயதுரைப்பார் யாருமில்லை

Ah! I am praising   the shining feet of that Guru
who is the state of Brahman, the source of all.
It cannot be completely covered by words coming out of the mouth.
There is no way that I can neatly list out his virtues.
Can sun be measured by a chain?
Can I calculate and write the praise of the Guru of knowledge?
Even if thousands texts are composed, it will not complete the task.
I will tell the greatness of the master in brief.
He has drunk the magical potion of immortality.
There is no one who can calculate his age.



Why not the KullaSaami be none other than



Bhagavan resided in the Mango Grove near Gurumurtham... Hence He is Maangottai Saamitthevan as well!!!

................who knows?




அருளால் எவையும்பார் என்றான் - அத்தை
      அறியாதே சுட்டிஎன் அறிவாலே பார்த்தேன்
இருளான பொருள்கண்ட தல்லால்-கண்ட
      என்னையுங் கண்டிலன் என்னேடி தோழி - சங்கர

"See thou through the eyes of Grace", He said;
Knowing not how to do it
I saw through my knowledge, differentiated;
And I saw nothing but darkness then;
Even I, the seer, was not seen to be;
How strange is all this!
O, Maid! (Chorus)

(Thayumanavar)

277
Dear Pythagoras,

The real Self in you, the Atman, the real Me in you is, as a matter of fact, the master of whole universe and it means it is all powerful. It is unlimited. It alone has the True Freewill and none else.

The unreal Self, which is termed individual is really non existent. There is no individual Self at all. So there is no chance of Freewill for the so called Individual, and there is no chance of destiny for the so called individual. It is all limitation.

There is no Individual at all. There is only the Universal.

Now read further carefully.

How can the Self, the Atman, the true Self, the Reality in you - how can that give up its nature?You have confined that (Your Real Self, nature) in the prison, the prison of the Individual, which is all limitedness, which does not exist at all.

How this confinement has taken place?

Vedanta says, it has not taken place at all! That it appears to have taken place is what is called ignorance or avidya, says Vedanta.

Now,

How can the Self, the Atman, the true Self, the Reality in you - how can that give up its nature? Which is all unlimitedness, all powerful, the master of the whole universe? It is the mater of its own will, it is the universal power of creation and destruction of destiny.

Ignorance which makes you attribute to the Individual the glory of Self, the Atman and makes you, on the contrary, attribute to the Real Self, the misery of the Individual, which is unlimited. it is all limitation. Remove this ignorance and you will see the True Light.

From this light, it is in the Real Self alone that all powers exist, very clearly, and He alone is the Master of all Free will and He alone is the Super powerful.

Even for the so called Individual, that really does not exist, but which as arisen out of ignorance, it is the Real Self, the Atman, that confers the knowledge of the Truth.

The Lord says in Bhagavatam:

By My blessing you shall have that knowledge of My truth what I am inherently, My manifestations, forms, attributes and activities are.

அவன் அருளாலே அவன் தாள் வணங்கி
Avan Arulale Avan Thaal Vanangi: It is by His grace the Individual worships Him. (Sivapuranam)

Therefore there rests not an iota of Free will in the hands of the Individual!

The individual is Maya, illusion, mirage. it is unreal, it is inert, non existent. Infact there is no Individual at all. There is only the Real Self, the Atman, the all powerful, the all glorious, the unlimited.

again to repeat:

But why is it that the limited, the Unreal, though does not exist appear to exist and feels it has Freewill, and all powers? It is because, The Atman, the True Self, the Reality in you - how can that give up its nature? You have confined (or people confine) it to something that is Unreal, limited, the Individual. and The Ignorance - the individual begins to feel, it has the power of Freewill, and it has all the other powers, where as it is truly only the Real Self, the Atman, which is the Real. All problems is only due to confinement of the Unlimited as limited. The Universal Self as the Individual self. the Real as the Unreal.

The energy of the true Atman, the Real Self wants you to realize the state where you are perfectly free, where you have no equal, where is is no other, where there is no Individual, where there is no limitation at all. So when you talk of Freewill, it is only the true Atman that has all the powers of the universe.

The sinfulness of our the freewill lies is making the mistake of attributing the power of freewill (and all other powers), to the individual and the worthlessness of the individual to the Real Self, the Atman. It is this mistake, the Vedanta aims to remove. By ignorance, the unchangeable nature, the Supreme nature of the True Self is ascribed to the circumstances of the individual. That is the cause of all misery.

It is like this that, you seem to see an anomaly, or a paradox if we may say, that you have observed in your reflection!

Similarly in you is everything, but by the misplacement of things God is put down below and the body is placed above it, and the highest heaven is turned into the direct hell. Place them in the right order and you will see that even this dire and abominable phenomenon of sins speaks of your godliness, of your purity. Get the right vision and you are the greatest God. (SRT)

So it is only like this that it appears that,

though you have no free will (as the individual),
you still have freewill (because you are really the Atman)

though you have no destiny (as the Atman)
you still seem to have a predestiny/destiny
(as the individual subject to various limitations)

See Gita:

nAsato vidyate bhAvo nAbhAvo vidyate sataH |
ubhayorapi driShToantastvanayostattvadarSibhiH || 2-16 ||

That which really is, cannot go out of existence, just as that which is non-existent cannot come into being.
The end of this opposition of 'is' and 'is not' has been perceived by the seers of essential truths.

That which seems subject to change alone is capable of attaining destinies or predestiny and this is the nature of the Unreal - the Individual. and that which is ever changeless, has no destiny has no limitation - the Atman.

Hope this is clear.

--

278
Dear Pythahoras

You have to just accept it as raw as you see. Accept the contradiction as it is. Where from this urge arises to have it in black or white? Contradiction is not confusion. It is perfect clarity as it is!

Where has this idea taken birth that it not ought to be contradictory? It is this urge, to see it in a particular sense which is the birth of samsara.

Just recognise that it need not be non-contrafictory. Recognise it can be anything. It can be neither left nor right or center and it can still be all of it together as well.

Just recognise that you are present even here as you have ever been. Mark your attendance to yourself, who remains untouched, unaffected. Recognise that this contradiction or non-contradiction, whether there is freewill or predestiny is not affecting you in any way.

Accept it as it is. Just look at it as it is.

Contradiction is also perfection!

--

279
General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: January 12, 2015, 10:50:48 AM »
stray thoughts...

know your problems well before seeking solutions.

......there may not even be any problem, after all !

-.

280
Dear Pythagoras,

What is your question really? i see you have raised questions about Freewill and destiny, but, what is your real question. What do you what to know? What do you want to be clear of?

That you have raised a question about Freewill and Destiny implies that this itself is only your secondary question (and not your main question) , but, through the clarity of which, something else that is itching you within, you intend be able to be sort out that itching within, that burning within which is your primary question!

Therefore, Dear Pythagoras, please bring clarity within yourself and express out, as to what do you really want to know?

The clarity in question brings about clarity in solution as well. If the questions are vague, it would only attract vague answers. Therefore, it is very important to be clear in the question. Just churn yourself quietly within and see what is it that is really the problem? if it really Freewill and destiny?  or is it something else? Look within..

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281
Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Light Post
« on: January 10, 2015, 12:01:53 PM »
one fine day....

d1 - Namaste cguruji, i am dejected thoroughly as all my efforts have gone waste, i am very tired and i have no peace inspite of all my sincere efforts. Please bless me some light.
cguru - Abandon all your efforts and thrust all your cares on the Lord, He shall take you to your source.
d1 - You have released me from a great burden cguruji, i am free of all my burden now. I am indeed blessed.

another fine day....

d2 - Namaste cguruji, i am absolutely depressed and in great low. I am just unable to just be. I surrendered all my burden on the Lord, yet i have no peace. Each moment i just live by the dictum of the Lord, yet i find no peace. I am just unable to remain quiet! Please relieve me of this burden, o cguruji.
cguru - Strive diligently, take all the responsibility onto yourself, carefuly tread the path with the guidance of a guru, put sincere effort, meditate, contemplate and attain peace.
d2 - yes indeed! Thank you so much of this great upadesa cguruji, I am blessed, i am indeed blessed.

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282
General topics / Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« on: January 08, 2015, 04:04:19 PM »
Dear Krishnan, you seem to be slightly upset. But you need to ponder a moment and see the validity of your beliefs. And we need not look down upon the so called neo advaitins. After all, all are in some quest or other the other. Lets not look down upon anybody, even the scientists who desist spirituality also are in some quest looking for the Truth. The language need not match, the understanding of each others need not match, still all are same, one and the same. There is no neo advaitin there is no advaitin there is no dvaitin there is no scientist, there is no indian there is no american, these are all just names and forms devised for communication purpose.

It is absolutely simple to discern that Everybody is not a Jnani but everybody and everything is Jnanam. Everything is the Lord. Sarvam Khalu idam Brahma, proclaim the vedas. The Lord says in the Gita सर्वस्य चाहं हृदि सन्निविष्टो sarvasya cāhaṃ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo - I am lodged in the heart of all. Therefore it is wrong and a mistake to look with difference at the world and people as Ajnanis. Whether you term it as neo advaita or some thing else, fortunately, it is verily a Truth - equalizing everybody to jnana. After all this is the aim of the Vedas.

Change your vision and the world will appear accordingly. Shape yourself as the embodiment of Peace, Love, and Reverence. Then you will see all as Love.

It is as simple as the snake - rope example. You are seeing the Snake but fail to discern that it is just the rope Like wise is your observation. While all that there is just the rope alone. All that there is just the God principle alone. All that there is is just Brahman alone. but instead of seeing this principle, we see snakes in the names and forms. Cast aside all your knowledge and then see without names and forms? what do you see? what is is just the Essence that is God.

When The Lord resides in everybody, why do we fail to acknowledge His presence? We fail so because we fail to acknowledge the presence of God first in ourselves! If we first look within and acknowledge with conviction that it is God who resides within, what difficulty it should take to see God in one and all? And is it not blasphemous to term anybody as Ajnani when it is GOD who is residing in one and all? Be it sentient or insentient?

The False lies is ones own vision. When we see with mortal eyes, only difference is perceived, but when we see with the eyes of wisdom of the eyes of Divinity, with the eyes of God who resides within, then all that there is is just God principle alone and none else!

I conclude presenting below a couple of small stories:

A person remained silent though he was being criticised. When his friend wanted him to react, he replied, ?The same Atma is present in me as well as in the person who is criticising. So, why should I be annoyed when he is criticising himself?? A deep inquiry into the truth will reveal that when you love or hate others, you love or hate your own self. In fact, there are no ?others.? You consider yourself different from others because of body attachment. Once you give up body attachment, you will realise that there are no others and all are yours. That is the true vision of the Atma. The Atma does not have a specific form. (SSB)

"There was a monastery in a certain place. The monks residing there went out daily to beg their food. One day a monk, while out for his alms, saw a landlord beating a man mercilessly. The compassionate monk stepped in and asked the landlord to stop. But the landlord was filled with anger and turned his wrath against the innocent monk. He beat the monk till he fell unconscious on the ground. Someone reported the matter to the monastery. The monks ran to the spot and found their brother lying there. Four or five of them carried him back and laid him on a bed. He was still unconscious. The other monks sat around him sad at heart; some were fanning him. Finally someone suggested that he should be given a little milk to drink. When it was poured into his mouth he regained consciousness. He opened his eyes and looked around. One of the monks said, 'Let us see whether he is fully conscious and can recognize us.' Shouting into his ear, he said, 'Revered sir, who is giving you milk?' 'Brother,' replied the holy man in a low voice, 'He who beat me is now giving me milk.' (Gospel of SRK)

Sure, this is not easy and it is easier said than done - to look at one and all as God. But we can take baby steps in this regard and it is not achieved by going on the reverse direction looking at the world in duality, with difference. Even if our belief is limited in this regard, still the Guru says so, the Vedas says so, therefore even if i am not completely able to see God in all, i would still regard God in one and all till it becomes natural. This is the right spirit.

best,

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Having said above in my previous post, there are several dimensions to the same topic. As long as one has not realised the Self, the Truth, one is subject to the laws of Karma. One has to exert ones purushartha, willful effort and deliberation in order to attain the attainable.

But a Brahman, a Brahma Jnani, a realised soul, is not subject to the laws of karma of freewill or destiny as such a one is beyond the identification of body. Though it may appear that he is subject to the laws of Karma from outside to an onlooker, He is however untouched and unaffected.

Therefore, our tradition does not give away instant answers like the way as above, whether there is freewill or not in an yes or no. it varies from the standpoint of the aspirant. Different answers would suit differently circumstantially.

Like how a wine is brewed, fermented, like how milk truns into curd, one has to be in the presence of a Guru physically or mentally reverentially and seek in His presence the Knowledge of Truth. One has to ferment brew in the presence of the Truth, it takes its own course, time is immaterial here, the concepts of soon or late is only in the mind.

I always am reminded about this shlka from the Gita, it perfecly elucidates the attitude all aspirants much invoke in the quest:

tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah

Please take a moment to read this:

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7164.msg34008#msg34008

Therefore, what is important is to seek diligently, Answers are not important, views are not important. One has to realise the Self or realise the God.

In Bhagavan's way, He would ask, first realise the Self and then find out if there is freewill and destiny for yourself.

It is more important to seek God without mindful of fruit of realisation or knowledge that you may derive. You Love God for Love's sake, just out of pure love not out of a desire to realise the Self or realise God.

The bottomline is, there is no fixed answer here and what are you going to do about it? There are broadly two choices, either surrender completely to your God or investigate diligently and see for yourself. And for this we ought to be clear how we are inclined.

We often read Summa iru, Just be, Just be. But it is to be discerned that one cannot Just be, One Just Becomes, "Summa Ayidanum" There remains none to Just Be!

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284
yes Pythagoras, as Sri Ravi has said, There is nothing called Destiny, it is sheer indolence. The ground bare truth is that you are the master of your own destiny. you has asked me to share some link pertaining to Freewill and Destiny by Swami Rama Tirtha, he has covered this topic in several topics in his lectures. And i truly believe that spiritual quest is not like a Doctor treatment who prescribes some alopathic medicine for a particular ailment, and it does not work like this, we cannot just keep looking for views and opinions of schools or Gurus in order to satiate the doubts that arise in our minds. today a question about fate and freewill will arise and you may get an article that might be interesting and convincing, but soon later, another doubt would spring and you would be in search for food for your doubt and this is endless cycle.

There has to be a sincere discipline and willful effort with devotion / reverence. We need to immerse ourselves in the quest in one school primarily, seek knowledge from all quarters and this means surrender to One Guru and trust in Him alone and you would get all answers from that very source itself. My suggesting reading the lectures of Swami Rama Tirtha also meant that if you are inclined and interested then it would mean to immerse yourself completely in SRT, His life and every detail about Him, reading his lectures carefully and reverentially, trusting that He would take you to where ever / what ever the Truth is. Not just merely to quench an immediate thirst and often springing thirst and hunger.

I will share with you a couple of stories narrated by SRT:

There was a Mohammedan poet in India, a very good man, rather a very clever and witty man. He was living at the court of one of the native  princes, who was highly interested in him. One night the native prince kept him long in his company, and this poet amused the prince with  all sorts of poems, witty stories, and most amusing tales. The prince went to bed very late. He was amused by the witty poet to such a degree that he forgot all about his sleep. The queen asked the prince what was the cause of his delay, of his unusual delay in retiring to
his room. The prince replied "Oh, we had a wonderful man with us this evening; he was so good, so splendid, so witty and amusing." Then the queen enquired more about him, and her curiosity made the king expatiate upon the capability and attainment of the poet to such a degree that they had to sit until a late hour, so that it was near dawn when they retired. Now the curiosity of the queen being excited to the highest pitch, she asked the prince to bring this witty poet before her some day. Well, the next day this witty poet was brought before the
queen.

This poet was brought by the king into the harem, the private apartments of the ladies. There he sang his poems and recited his stories; the ladies were highly amused. Then the poet gave out that he was blind, he was suffering from a disease of the eyes; but he was not blind in reality. Now the wicked intention of this poet was to be allowed to live in the private apartments of the ladies, so that they might not mistrust him, and the ladies thinking him to be blind might be free in their walks, and talks, in going from room to room and might not keep  any veils on their countenances when passing by him. Now believing him to be blind, the prince allowed him to remain in the apartments of the ladies. But truth cannot be concealed. It will be out one day.

"Truth crushed to earth shall rise again. The eternal years of God are hers." One day this poet asked one of the maid servants to bring something to him.

This poet, when he got an honourable position in the house of the prince, thought it beneath his dignity to leave his seat and bring a chair to where he wanted it. So he ordered one of the maid-servants to do it, -but she replied harshly, bluntly that she was very busy, she had no leisure, she could not spare the time. After that there appeared another servant, and he beckoned to her to come forward to him and
asked her to move the chair, but she said that there was no chair in the room. He said "Bring that basin of water to me" She said, "There is none this in room; I will go into the other room and bring it to you." He said "Bring it, there is one in the room, do you not see it? There it is." In his anxiety to get the thing done, he forgot himself. That is what happens. This is how Truth plays a joke with liars. This is the Law of Nature. When this poet said, "Here it is, do you not see it?" the maid at once, instead of doing that job for him, ran straight to the queen and divulged the secret, and said, "Lo, the man is not blind, he is a wicked man, he ought to be turned out of the house."

He was turned out of the house; but about three days after he was turned out of the house of the prince, he became actually blind. How is that? Why?

The Law of Karma comes and tells you that the man becomes blind by his own will. He is the master of his own destiny. Blindness is brought on himself by his own self, nobody else makes him blind: his own desires, his own cravings make him blind. Afterwards when blindness comes he begins to weep and cry, he begins to gnash his teeth and bite his lips and beat his breast.

MORAL: Everybody reaps the fruit of his own desires. This is the Law of Karma.

Here is another one:

A patient was suffering from two ailments, one concerning eyes and the other with regard to stomach. He went to the hospital and mentioned to the physician about his two ailments. The doctor gave him surma (Eye powder) for the eyes and a digestive powder for his stomach ache. But, unfortunately, the patient confused the packets of the two powders. He ate the eye-powder and put digestive powder into his eyes, with the result that both of his troubles were very much aggravated. Similarly, here too, there is a great confusion with
regard to the conduct in our daily life. We should have left the body and the body connection to destiny, but, instead, we make efforts for it. In other words, we are eating the eye-powder. We should have made earnest efforts for realisation of the Self, but, instead, we have left it to destiny. It means, we are applying the digestive powder to our eyes. That is why we are going down instead of rising up. Under such circumstances, it is impossible for anyone to enjoy the true happiness without God realisation.

Dear friends, if you are really keen to enjoy the real happiness due to realisation of the Self or God, you have to work hard very sincerely to achieve that end. You have to give-up all desires, and leave the bodily enjoyments to destiny which will automatically look after them. Your real efforts should be to lose yourself in Atman and establish yourself in Godhood. In this way, you will be in position to enjoy the Eternal-Bliss in the "Kingdom of Heaven‟. This is the real Purushartha. If you only sit on the 'Royal Throne' of your Godhood, you will see that all your desires will be automatically fulfilled even without your wishing.

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285
General topics / Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« on: January 07, 2015, 07:57:25 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

It is prudent to pursue with the instruction of your Guru, rather allow the mind to graze in needless issues.

Waste not a moment in things that are not part of your sadhana. Leave aside the debates and questions of who is realised and who is not realised, who is a siddha and who is not a siddha, purification or pollution and so on...

Of what use or importance is it to you? whether something is polluted or purified?
Of what use or importance is it to you? whether somebody is realised or unrealised?
....so on...

Even the Super Sage-hood of Bhagavan Ramana in the lines of Sanaka and Suka and his being an atiasrami is of no use! one has to put to sincere practice the very teaching or the instruction of a Guru.

Sage Vishwamitra revealed Gayatri Mantra, so what? if one is not chanting the Gayatri and glorifies Sage Vishwamitra? What does it matter to Vishwamitra or other Sages?

The only issue that really matters is whether you - "Am 'I' realised?" and not if others are realised or unrealised?

Bhagavan:

நினைவுகள் தோன்றத் தோன்ற அப்போதைக்கப்போதே அவைகளையெல்லாம் உற்பத்திஸ்தானத்திலேயே விசாரணையால் நசிப்பிக்க வேண்டும்.

As and when thoughts arise, then and there it is necessary to annihilate them all by vicāraṇā [investigation or vigilant self-attentiveness] in the very place from which they arise.



Do not get lost here and there. Get back to source.

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