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Messages - Nagaraj

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Interesting facts, Thank you Subramanian Sir, before i can understand the verse you have provided, i have to make some homework about the words and all...

You can take Bharati's songs in Tamizh in the following link:

Look for the following Work numbers that are attributed to Bharatiyar's works. You would be able to simply copy and paste. You have to just make sure that you follows the Unicode Link under the Work Nos. which reads like as follows pmuni0001.html you will see that the word contains uni - meaning unicode. Hope this is of help :) I am looking forward for reading more tamil Sir, and you are certainly a repository of tamil works, aplenty!

Work Nos.


General Discussion / Re: Teachings of Sri Ramakrishna
« on: November 01, 2012, 05:51:14 PM »
I want you to remember this. You may impart thousands of instructions to people, but they will not bear fruit except  in proper time. On going to bed, a child said to his mother, 'Mother, please wake me up when I feel the call of nature.' The mother said: 'Don't worry about it, my child. That all will wake you up itself.'

One feels yearning for God at the proper time.

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

Humour / Re: Zen Humour
« on: November 01, 2012, 04:38:47 PM »
Dogen Zenji (1200-53), the illustrious Japanese master who founded Soto Zen in Japan in 1233, had four years of Chan training in China from 1223-7. While there, he collected numerous valuable texts, including several major koan anthologies, which he brought with him to his homeland. At some point after his return to Japan, he was asked, “What noble teachings have you brought back?” He replied, “I have returned empty handed!”


Aristocratic lady: “I long for bhakti. I want more of this longing. Even realisation does not matter for me. Let me be strong in my longing.”

Maharshi: If the longing is there, Realisation will be forced on you even if you do not want it. Subhechcha is the doorway for realisation.

Translations and Commentaries by Forum Members / Re: Light Post
« on: November 01, 2012, 04:31:25 PM »
Sri Silentgreen, Sri Ravi,

Question: I have faith in murti dhyana [worship of form]. Will it not help me to gain jnana?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: Surely it will. Upasana [meditation] helps concentration of mind. Then the mind is free from other thoughts and is full of the meditated form. The mind then becomes one with the object of meditation, and this makes it quite pure. Then think who is the worshipper. The answer is ‘I’, that is the Self. In this way the Self is ultimately gained.

Worshiping the formless reality by un-thought thought is the best kind of worship. But when one is not fit for such formless worship of God, worship of form alone is suitable. Formless worship is possible only for people who are devoid of the ego-form. Know that all the worship done by people who possess the ego-form is only worship of form.

(Be as you are)


A devotee went to Ramana and said, "I've been with you for 25 years, doing Who am I, and nothing has happened yet, so Ramana said, "Try it another 25 and see what happens." Forget about time. Forget about when something is going to happen. Even if nothing happens in this life, you are ahead of the game, for if you've been sincere, and if you've really been working on yourself, you will come back to an environment that is conducive for your realization, and at that time you may have realization when you're about 12 or 13 years old, because you’ve earned it. But if you're like most people and go around minding everybody’s business and saying, "I have no time to do this. I've tried it for two hours and it doesn't work," then you keep coming back again, and again, and again, going through all kinds of experiences, until one day, maybe 10,000 years from now you may actually get it and start working on yourself diligently; what you should be doing now.

What do you do with yourself all day long? Think. From the moment you get out of bed, how does your day go? Do you think of God at all? Do you practice or do you think about your affairs and your body? Be honest with yourself. If you're not making any headway in spiritual life, it's because you're not putting anything into it. You have to realize that whatever you see in the world is only a reflection of yourself. If people are mean to you, if they abuse you, it is because you're seeing yourself as those people. In other words, you've got those qualities.

(From Robert Adams' articles)

Fascinating information on Sister Nivedita Sri Ravi, thank you.

ஆட்டம் கலைய வெண்டும் ஆடிமுடிந்த பிர -

The play should end and when it is over (you can come here)

I recollect Brahmana Swami gave me  once or twice some books to read - which book it was I do not remember. I do not recollect whether Palaniswami alone lived with Brahmana Swami, visitors like overseer Sheshair used to go to Brahmana Swami often or daily and give him eatables like fruits, I do not remember their questioning Brahmana Swami. I stayed there 3 months being more attracted by the personality of Brahmana Swami rather than by the place. He was so unworldy - full of deep meditation. I thought he was the only person in whom I felt I had a sort of confidence. Since then I went to no other for guidance. He has always been my guiding light. I visited Maharshi some years later in 1908, 1913 (i.e., soon after my marriage in 1912), 1917) (after I returned from Japan), 1923, 1927 etc.

In 1927 I asked Maharshi how long I was to be tossed about in worldly affairs. He said "The play should end (ஆட்டம் கலைய வெண்டும்) and when it is over (ஆடிமுடிந்த பிரகு) you can come here.

The play is not yet over - evidently.

As I happened to visit Madras on account of social or domestic necessities I have called here to see Maharshi.

I tried and began my dhyana in 1900 but got no aid then. Only  after my marriage in  1912 I gained a bit of proficiency in dhyana. I now spend about an hour in dhyana. Swarupa Dhyana of this same Sat Guru in my mind and I see lights while I concentrate and I reported this to Maharshi. He said "The vastu is inside and it is seen there." I have received no other instruction so far as I can remember.

(MV Sundaresa Iyer, ARBOG, I, 167)

General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: November 01, 2012, 01:51:58 PM »
Nobody believed that Baba knew Sanskrit. One day He surprised all by giving a good interpretation of a verse from the Gita to Nanasaheb Chandorkar. A brief account about this matter was written by Mr.B.V.Deo, Retired Mamlatdar and published in Marathi in 'Shri Sai Leela' magazine, Vol IV. Sphuta Vishaya, page 563. Short accounts of the same are also published in 'Sai Baba's Charters and Sayings' page 61 and in 'The Wondrous Saint Sai Baba', page 36 - both by Brother B.V.Narsimhaswami. Mr.B.V.Deo has also given an English version of this in his statement dated 27-9-1936 and published on page 66 of "Devotees' Experiences, Part III" published by the said Swami. As Mr.Deo has got first hand information about this Subject from Nanasaheb himself we give below his version.

Nanasaheb Chandorkar was a good student of Vedanta. He had read Gita with commentaries and prided himself on his knowledge of all that. He fancied that Baba knew nothing of all this or of Sanskrit. So, Baba one day pricked the bubble. These were the days before crowds flocked to Baba, when Baba had solitary talks at the Mosque with such devotees. Nana was sitting near Baba and massaging His Legs and muttering something.

Baba - Nana, what are you mumbling yourself?

Nana - Iam reciting a shloka (verse) from Sanskrit.

Baba - What shloka?

Nana - From Bhagawad-Gita

Baba - Utter it loudly.

Nana then recited B.G.IV-34 which is as follows :-

'Tadviddhi Pranipatena Pariprashnena Sevaya,

Upadekshyanti Te Jnanam Jnaninastattwadarshinah'

Baba - Nana, do you understand it?

Nana - Yes.

Baba - If you do, then tell me.

Nana - It means this - "Making Sashtanga Namaskar, i.e., prostration, questioning the guru, serving him, learn what this Jnana is. Then, those Jnanis that have attained the real knowledge of the Sad-Vastu (Brahma) will give you upadesha (instruction) of Jnana."

Baba - Nana, I do not want this sort of collected purport of the whole stanza. Give me each word, its grammatical force and meaning.

Then Nana explained it word by word.

Baba - Nana, is it enough to make prostration merely ?

Nana - I do not know any other meaning for the word 'pranipata' than 'making prostration'.

Baba - What is 'pariprashna'?

Nana - Asking questions.

baba - What does 'Prashna' mean?

Nana - The same (questioning).

Baba - If 'pariprashna' means the same as prashna (question), why did Vyasa add the prefix 'pari'? Was Vyasa off his head?

Nana - I do not know of any other meaning for the word 'pariprashna'.

Baba - 'Seva', what sort of 'seva' is meant?

Nana - Just what we are doing always

Baba - Is it enough to render such service?

Nana - I do not know what more is signified by the word 'seva'.

Baba - In the next line "upadekshyanti te jnanam", can you so read it as to read any other word in lieu of Jnanam?

Nana - Yes.

Baba - What word?

Nana - Ajnanam.

Baba - Taking that word (instead of Jnana) is any meaning made out of the verse?

Nana - No, Shankara Bhashya gives no such construction.

Baba - Never mind if it does not. Is there any objection to using the word "Ajnana" if it gives a better sense?

Nana - I do not understand how to construe by placing "Ajnana" in it.

Baba - Why does Krishna refer Arjuna to Jnanis or Tattwadarshis to do his prostration, interrogation and service? Was not Krishna a Tattwadarshi, in fact Jnana himself.

Nana - Yes He was. But I do not make out why he referred Arjuna to Jnanis?

Baba - Have you not understood this?

Nana was humiliated. His pride was knocked on the head. Then Baba began to explain -

(1) It is not enough merely to prostrate before the Jnanis. We must make Sarvaswa Sharangati (complete surrender) to the Sad-guru.

(2) Mere questioning is not enough. The question must not be made with any improper motive or attitude or to trap the Guru and catch at mistakes in the answer, or out of idle curiosity. It must be serious and with a view to achieve moksha or spiritual progress.

(3) Seva is not rendering service, retaining still the feeling that one is free to offer or refuse service. One must feel that he is not the master of the body, that the body is Guru's and exists merely to render service to him.

If this is done, the Sad-guru will show you what the Janna referred to in the previous stanza is.

Nana did not understand what is meant by saying that a guru teaches ajnana.

Baba - How is Jnana Upadesh, i.e., imparting of realization to be effected? Destroying ignorance is Jnana. (cf. Verse-Ovi-1396 of Jnaneshwari commenting on Gita 18-66 says - "removal of ignorance is like this, Oh Arjuna, If dream and sleep disappear, you are yourself. It is like that." Also Ovi 83 on Gita V-16 says - "Is there anything different or independent in Jnana besides the destruction of ignornace?")* Expelling darkness means light. Destroying duality (dwaita) means non-duality (adwaita). Whenever we speak of destroying Dwaita, we speak of Adwaita. Whenever we talk of destroying darkness, we talk of light. If we have to realise the Adwaita state, the feeling of Dwaita in ourselves has to be removed. That is the realization of the Adwaita state. Who can speak of Adwaita while remaining in Dwaita? If one did, unless one gets into that state, how can one know it and realise it?

Again, the Shishya (disciple) like the Sad-guru is really embodiment of Jnana. The difference between the two lies in the attitude, high realization, marvellous super-human Sattva (beingness) and unrivalled capacity and Aishwarya Yoga (divine powers). The Sad-guru is Nirguna, Sat-Chit-Ananda. He has indeed taken human form to elevate mankind and raise the world. But his real Nirguna nature is not destroyed thereby, even a bit. His beingness (or reality), divine power and widsom remain undiminished. The disciple also is in fact of the same swarupa. But, it is overlaid by the effect of the samaskaras of innumerable births in the shape of ignorance, which hides from his view that he is Shuddha Chaitanya (see B.G. Ch. V-15). As stated therein, he gets the impressions - "Iam Jiva, a creature, humble and poor." The Guru has to root out these offshoots of ignorance and has to give upadesh or instruction. To the disciple, held spell-bound for endless generations by the ideas of his being a creature, humble and poor, the Guru imparts in hundreds of births the teaching - "You are God, you are mighty and opulent." Then, he realizes a bit that he is God really. The perpetual delusion under which the disciple is labouring, that he is the body, that he is a creature (jiva) or ego, that God (Paramatma) and the world are different from him, is an error inherited from innumerable past births. From actions based on it, he has derived his joy, sorrows and mixtures of both. To remove this delusion, this error, this root ignorance, he must start the inquiry. How did the ignorance arise? Where is it? And to show him this is called the Guru's upadesh. The following are the instances of Ajnana :-

1 - I am a Jiva (creature)

2 - Body is the soul (I am the body).

3 - God, world and Jiva are different.

4 - I am not God.

5 - Not knowing, that body is not the soul.

6 - Not knowing that God, world and Jiva are one.

Unless these errors are exposed to his view, the disciple cannot learn what is God, jiva, world, body; how they are inter-related and whether they are different from each other, or are one and the same. To teach him these and destroy his ignorance is this instruction in Jnana or Ajnana. Why should Jnana be imparted to the jiva, (who is) a Jnanamurti? Upadesh is merely to show him his error and destroy his ignorance.

Baba added :- (1) Pranipata implies surrender. (2) Surrender must be of body, mind and wealth; Re: (3) Why should Krishna refer Arjuna to other Jnanis? "Sadbhakta takes every thing to be Vasudev (B.G.VII-19 i.e., any Guru will be Krishna to the devotee) and Guru takes disciple to be Vasudev and Krishna treats both as his Prana and Atma (B.G.7-18, commentary of Jnanadev on this). As Shri Krishna knows that there are such Bhaktas and Gurus, He refers Arjuna to them so that their greatness may increase and be known.

General topics / Re: Bhajana Dhyana
« on: November 01, 2012, 11:24:11 AM »
घनु वाजे घुणघुणा । वारा वाजे रुणझुणा ।
भवतारकु हा कान्हा । वेगीं भटवा का ॥

चांदुवो चांद्णे । चांपेवो चंदनु ।
देवकीनंदनु वीण । नावडे वो ॥

चंदनाची चोळी । माझे सर्व अंग पोळी ।
कान्हो वनमाळी । वेगीं भेटवा कां ॥

सुमनाची सेज । सितळ वो निकी ।
पोळे आगीसारिखी । वेगीं विझवा कां ॥

तुम्ही गातसां सुस्वरे । ऐकोनि द्या उतर ।
कोकिळें वर्जवें । तुम्हीं बाईयांनो ॥

दर्पणी पाहता । रूप न दिसे आपुलें ।
बाप् रखुमादेवीवरें । विठ्ठलं मज ऐसें केलें ॥


  ghanu vAjE ghuNaghuNA . vArA vAjE ruNajhuNA .
bhavatAraku hA kAnhA . vEngI bhatavA kA ..

cAnduvO cAndNE . cAmpEvO candanu .
dEvakInandanu vINa . nAvaDE O ..

candanAcI cOLI . mAjhE sarva anga pOLI .
kAnhO vanamALI . vEgIn bhETavA kAm ..

sumanAcI sEja . sitaLa vO nikI .
pOLE AgIsArikhI . vEgIn vijhavA kAm ..

tumhI gAtasAm susvarE . aikOni dyA utara .
kOkiLEn varjavem . tumhIn bAIyAmnO ..

darpaNI pAhatAm . rUpa nadise Apulen .
bApa rakhumAdEvIvaren . viTTalen maja aisen kElEn ..

The clouds softly rumble . The wind sings a melody .
I wish I meet without delay, kAnhA (kRushnA),
the one who saves us in this life journey!

The shelter, the moonlight . Champak Flower and sandalwood
I have no desire for them without the son of dEvakI (kRushnA)

I anoint myself with sandalwood . But it burns my body .
I wish I see without delay . kAnhA, who dwells in forest ..

It is said . the bed of flowers is soothing .
But it scorches me like fire . extinguish it forthwith !

O' you cuckoo birds .
cease your sweet songs ..

When I look into mirror . It is not my reflection that I see .
This is what viTTal (kRushnA) has done to me ..



That state which transcends speech and thought is mauna;
it is meditation without mental activity. Subjugation of the
mind is meditation; deep meditation is eternal speech.
Silence is ever-speaking; it is the perennial flow of ‘language’.
It is interrupted by speaking; for words obstruct this
mute ‘language’. Lectures may entertain individuals for hours
without improving them. Silence, on the other hand,
is permanent and benefits the whole of humanity. By silence,
eloquence is meant. Oral lectures are not so eloquent as silence.
Silence is unceasing eloquence. It is the best language.


The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 01, 2012, 10:17:31 AM »
Bhagavan and one Mudaliar Swami were taking stroll behind the Skandasramam site. There was a huge rock about 15 feet high with a cleft. A shepherdess was standing nearby there crying. Bhagavan asked the reason for her sorrow. She said, "A sheep of mine has slipped the reason for her sorrow. She said. Bhagavan descended into the cleft, took the sheep on his shoulders, climbed up to the surface and delivered the sheep to her. This was a remarkable feat for any human being. Ramana in his kindness did that for the shepherdess.

(ARBOG I, 216)

पृ॒त॒ना॒जित॒ ँ् सह॑मानमु॒ग्रम॒ग्नि ँ् हु॑वेम पर॒मात्स॒धस्था॑॑त् ।
स नः॑ पर्ष॒दति॑ दु॒र्गाणि॒ विश्वा॒ क्षाम॑द्देवो॒ अति॑ दुरि॒तात्य॒ग्निः ॥५॥

pRutanAjitagm sahamAnamugramagnigm huvEma paramAtsadhasthAt .
sa nah parShadati durgANi vishvA kShAmaddEvO ati duritAtyagnih ..5..

pRutanA - enemy, hostile (forces)
jitam - won, subduedm, overcomed, conquered
sahamAnam - possessing pride, arrogance
ugram - fierce, strong, mighty
agnim - Fire God (tapas)
huvEma - invoke, meditate upon,
paramAt - most excellent, greatest point, Supreme, source
sadhasthAt - (in) presence of, (in that) place,
sa - that
nah - us
durgANi - difficulties
vishvA - all, complete, everything
kShAmad - burning (to ashes), make weak, scorched, pardon,
ddEvO - O' God
ati - beyond
duritAt - bad, sinful, evil, difficulties
agnim - Fire God (tapas)

May the fierce (strong and the mighty) hostile forces (from within) possessed of pride (and arrogance) be subdued, O' Fire (Effulgence of wisdom, Self), i invoke Thou (from within) in 'that' presence (place) that source (most supreme, most excellent, the greatest point [from deep within]), O' God, May 'That' completely burn out, pardon all the difficulties and take us, beyond (these) sins, (evil tendencies and difficulties) in Thou (O' Fire [Effulgence of wisdom, Self])

The teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi / Re: Our Bhagavan-Stories
« on: November 01, 2012, 08:32:02 AM »

When I was writing to you yesterday about eating popcorn with boiled rice, I was reminded of another incident. Echamma’s cooking was never very good; it would not contain vegetables and spices in proper proportions. To Bhagavan her devotion was more tasty than her preparations and so he never complained, but some who could not relish the food casually hinted at this now and then while Bhagavan was cutting vegetables in the kitchen in the early morning hours. After hearing their complaints repeatedly Bhagavan said, “I don’t know. If you do not like the food you need not eat it. I find it quite good and I shall continue to do so.”

Sometime back, she was sending food for about a week or ten days through someone else because perhaps she was out of town or not quite well. The cooks one day forgot to serve the food sent by her and completed serving all other items of food cooked in the Ashram. Bhagavan who would usually beckon to others to start eating and would himself commence doing so, sat silently that day with his left hand under the chin, and his right hand on the leaf. The people there sitting in front began to look at one another and those in the kitchen, or wondering and enquiring in whispers about the possible reason. Suddenly they remembered that the food sent by Echamma had not been served and, when they served it saying, “Oh, we have forgotten,” he gave the formal signal to the others to eat and he too commenced eating the food. It is usual for him to eat with greater relish the raw groundnuts offered to him by a devotee than the highly seasoned sweets and puddings offered by rich people, just as Lord Krishna ate with relish the beaten rice handed over to him by Kuchela.


General Discussion / Re: Teachings of Sri Ramakrishna
« on: November 01, 2012, 08:20:08 AM »
As long as his self-analysis is not complete man argues with much ado. But he becomes silent when he completes it. When the empty pitcher has been filled with water, when the water inside the pitcher becomes one with the water of the lake outside, no more sound is heard. Sound comes from the pitcher as long as the pitcher is not filled with water.

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